By the way, they told us in Software Engineering school years ago that there is 
no greater compliment you can pay to a programmer than
"It works."
Your code can be as sophisticated as you like, but users don't see that.

> Hello everybody,

> on Montag, 15. Juli 2019 at 15:26  Gleason <sombr...@mm.st> wrote
> re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented?
> (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))

> this universally accepted quoting is what I don't want to loose.  
>   A quote is a QUOTE, not a table.

I guess I don't think it matters what it is called.

>   You may select a small sample of unkown email clients

My list is of the major players, I do a sweep once in a while to look
for  newcomers.  Mailbird, for instance, is newer than the others.
It appear in the past 10 years or so.  I haven't seen any reasonably successful 
clients since.

All of the clients on my list have a large (shrinking) group of loyal, committed
users willing to defend their choice on the battlefield.

>    which do it the wrong way.
>   Especially trying to build endlessly nested TABLEs, as TheBat! is doing, it 
> utter nonsense.

It works.

>   The correct was has been specified already in 1998 in this
> document to be found at W3C,  HTML Threading: Conventions for use of
> HTML in email  written by Eric Berman (Microsoft Corporation), Pete
> Resnick  (QUALCOMM Incorporated), and Nick Shelness (LOTUS).

Qualcomm, which produced the (at one time widely used) Eudora email client, now
defunct.  They gave it to Mozilla where it has gone no where.

Eric and Pete should have realized that they would not be able to
change a specification in use by a variety of clients and have them

One of the special challenges of email clients is that they need to
be able to interact successfully with other clients that do things differently 
even incorrectly.  Mozilla has ignored this requirement in this case,
and it has hurt the spread of Thunderbird users.

>    HTML hat two semantic tags for quoting: BLOCKQUOTE and Q.
> BLOCKQUOTE is, as the name says, a block element, while Q is an inline tag.

>    From the above linked document:

> Appendix A: Suggested Implementation Guidelines

> This section describes a suggested implementation model for UAs.
> These are guidelines only and do not constitute a requirement for compliance.

> Editing issues

> Quoting during reply/forward
> When quoting a message during a reply/forward, it is recommended
> that the text be encapsulated with BLOCKQUOTE elements, with a CITE
> attribute identifying the message being quoted, and optionally a
> CLASS attribute defining default style information. (BLOCKQUOTEs
> explicitly authored by the user should not have an CITE, or should
> have a CITE pointing to the current message, so that they can be
> distinguished from message excerpts.)

>  As a message makes several roundtrips, it may acquire several
> nested BLOCKQUOTE blocks. Because most HTML implementations indent
> BLOCKQUOTE text, the use of BLOCKQUOTE ensures that recipients that
> support neither this recommendation nor CSS1 can still display an
> appropriate level of indentation to the user. However, a mail UA may
> choose to use other elements, such as DIV, if they do not wish to
> use BLOCKQUOTE in order to achieve the same grouping of text within
> a message (for example, for forwarding a message, where indenting may not be 
> desired.).

>  An application MAY choose to enclose all new message text in a DIV
> block so that all text is unambiguously tagged. This is not strictly
> necessary (since the lack of any explicit element or context
> indicates that the text is new). UAs MUST respect this element. When
> replying or forwarding the message, UA's MAY change the DIV to a
> BLOCKQUOTE to avoid needlessly nesting a DIV within a BLOCKQUOTE.  

> Editing quoted text

> It is common when responding to a message to edit within the quoted
> block of text. For example, questions asked within the original
> message may be answered one at a time in the response. These edits
> can fall into two categories: "block level", where the division
> between quoted and new text is a block-level boundary, and "inline", where 
> there is no such division.

>  If the user was starting a new block in the middle of an existing
> one (by hitting enter, for example), the UA must restart the
> existing style and CITE block after the BLOCKQUOTE.  

>  For example, if the original text was:
> • <BLOCKQUOTE CLASS="dsr--w3-org" CITE="mid:014328a83@389ak3j21h4">
>      ??The quick black fox??
>    ??
> and the replying author hits enter before the word "fox", then the resulting 
> HTML would be:
> • <BLOCKQUOTE CLASS="dsr--w3-org" CITE="mid:014328a83@389ak3j21h4">
>     ??The quick black
>    ??<P CLASS="ericbe--microsoft-com">You mean brown!</p>
>    ??<BLOCKQUOTE CLASS="dsr--w3-org" CITE="mid:014328a83@389ak3j21h4">
>    ??fox
>  ??
> The text "You mean brown" will thus appear on its own line and in
> the style defined for "ericbe--microsoft-com". Since the new text is
> not enclosed in any DIV or BLOCKQUOTE elements, it is considered part of the 
> current message.

>  Note that this may nest arbitrarily deep, so it may be necessary
> to close multiple BLOCKQUOTE elements and then reopen each one, with
> the right CLASS and CITE attributes, and in the right order.

>  [follows an example of inline quoting using the Q tag, so that the
> quoted text does not appear in a line by itself]

>   Try to do that with nested TABLEs (TABLE is meant to be nested
> arbitrarily deep), and it will create a madhouse.
>    What TheBat! does is an abuse of HTML. If there would be an HTML
> police, TheBat! would be punished for this violation of fundamentals.

> Cheers,
>  Lüko Willms
>  Frankfurt am Main
>  Germany

>  using: TheBat! (BETA)
>  OS: Windows 7    (NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1)
>  CPU: AMD  amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+
>  MEM: 4097 MB  



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