I think we should completely stop using tc.properties except for experimental 
stuff that has no user-facing behavior.  There should be one and only one place 
where configuration happens.
 
Sent from my handheld

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:41:48 
To:Geert Bevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [tc-dev] basic config


For me it's about defaults. These aren't bundles that almost anyone  
would ever touch. Most of this stuff is currently hard coded somewhere
in our jar. That said, I think the tc.properties having a list of  
defaults is temporary until we decide on a better place to put those  
defaults.

On Aug 20, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Geert Bevin wrote:

> Hmm, I have a problem still with using tc.properties. In terms of  
> setting up an application, I think that a user will expect a single  
> place to setup config modules that are being used. Currently we  
> only allow them to be included, thus adding something to include  
> the default ones seems natural. Otherwise, people will have to  
> juggle with two locations to get a view of which ones are actually  
> active and which ones not. Additionally, I think it's a mistake to  
> treat the additional config bundles that do what modules-common did  
> as 'more important' or 'higher order'. Just my 2c.
>
> On 20 Aug 2007, at 21:00, Taylor Gautier wrote:
>
>> Ok.  That sounds to me like tc.properties ;-).
>>
>> However, I have a request.  Is it possible to load tc.properties  
>> from the root classpath?  e.g. getResource("/tc.properties") -  
>> loading them from the TC installation or the command line seems to  
>> be preventative from using them in a user context, even if that  
>> user is advanced.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steven Harris wrote:
>>> I think the point is to have a way or place to have "default"  
>>> modules. We could of course hard code those but that is  
>>> inflexible so we are looking to add some sort of hook where we  
>>> can have these defaults but make them adjustable for the super  
>>> advanced user.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> On Aug 20, 2007, at 11:42 AM, Taylor Gautier wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Eugene -
>>>>
>>>> Then I think we are not agreeing on what the use case is for  
>>>> refactoring these bundles out and the reason for why a developer  
>>>> would need to change these settings.
>>>>
>>>> Generally speaking, tc.properties is a very poor way for  
>>>> developers to configure Terracotta to work with their their  
>>>> application.  They are generally undocumented, and they are  
>>>> global to the tc installation, unless they are passed on the  
>>>> command line, which means that either way, they are environment  
>>>> specfic, and not included as part of the application.  If the  
>>>> application depends on them to function correctly, then it has a  
>>>> dependency on the environment settings which is very difficult  
>>>> to manage through the software development lifecycle.   For  
>>>> these reasons, the tc-config provides a much better environment  
>>>> for user facing settings.
>>>>
>>>> So I need to understand why would a developer need to change  
>>>> these settings?  Are they intended to be for a developer to  
>>>> tweak his/her application so that it runs correctly?  If that is  
>>>> the case then control of these settings should be in tc-config,  
>>>> not in tc.properties.
>>>>
>>>> Eugene Kuleshov wrote:
>>>>> Taylor, config should probably don't include any implicit  
>>>>> modules we want to load by default. however using properties we  
>>>>> can allow user to tweak those implicit modules Taylor Gautier  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Ok. Well we should do these things in the config. Properties  
>>>>>> are not user facing and these sound user facing to me. Juris  
>>>>>> Galang wrote:
>>>>>>> I meant properties. On Aug 20, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Taylor  
>>>>>>> Gautier wrote:
>>>>>>>> I suppose you meant a basic set of config settings - not  
>>>>>>>> properties. Juris Galang wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi All, We opened a new issue: CDV-384 [ https:// 
>>>>>>>>> jira.terracotta.org/jira//browse/CDV-384?page=all ]  In  
>>>>>>>>> summary: The idea is that we will have a set of basic  
>>>>>>>>> config-bundles that will always get installed and started  
>>>>>>>>> on the L1 The primary intent being, since there are certain  
>>>>>>>>> configurations that  should always be defined when  
>>>>>>>>> clustering with Terracotta (eg: obfuscated classes will  
>>>>>>>>> always have to be excluded, certain Java classes that  
>>>>>>>>> require local resources, Swing components, etc) these  
>>>>>>>>> config-bundles will take care of it for the user behind-the- 
>>>>>>>>> scenes. A secondary is goal here is to finally migrate most  
>>>>>>>>> (if not all) of the default configurations out of the main  
>>>>>>>>> Terracotta source tree and into the config-bundles. Current  
>>>>>>>>> thinking is: - To create a set of config-bundles (as  
>>>>>>>>> opposed to dumping everything in the modules-common bundle)  
>>>>>>>>> delineated by class, package, framework, or functional  
>>>>>>>>> concerns; Or whatever makes more sense, like maybe an:  
>>>>>>>>> always-exclude config-bundle, always-include config-bundle,  
>>>>>>>>> basic-server-setting config-bundle, basic-logging config- 
>>>>>>>>> bundle, etc. - To provide a set of Terracotta system  
>>>>>>>>> properties to tweak which of the basic config-bundles will  
>>>>>>>>> be installed or started. Default setting would always ALL -  
>>>>>>>>> To always include these config-bundles in the kit. It would  
>>>>>>>>> be nice to hear from anyone/everyone interested in shaping  
>>>>>>>>> how we implement this feature. Thanks. Juris  
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ tc-dev  
>>>>>>>>> mailing list [email protected] http:// 
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>
> --
> Geert Bevin
> Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org
> Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com
> RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org
> Music and words - http://gbevin.com
>

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