On Sat, 24 Sep 2005, Sarah Murray wrote: > I'm happy to report that today's class (almost all of them) came in 10 > minutes early, after many were 15 minutes late last week, as I posted, > and I didn't have to "punish" -- only express displeasure over their > lateness.
Sarah, I am glad that punctuality improved in your class. But is amazing that university teachers have to be concerned about punctuality, make up exams due to fun travel etc. etc. We should transcend our "false consciousness" and acknowledge that undergrad university education is really high school. Martha > Sarah Murray > William Paterson U. of NJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Del Thomas Ph. D. > To: Sarah Murray > Cc: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: TEACHSOC: Re: about midterm holidays > > > I should say at the start that I am a doubting Thomas when it comes to self > professions. When some one says that, some of my best friends are... or this > is not a racial issue or I respect ...... Perhaps I should speak of > institutional disrespect. > > Students are enrolled for a variety of reasons. Some are there primarily > because they need to stay on their parents health insurance plan. Still > there is nothing lost in examining their hostility or disrespect toward you > or the system you stand for. Some of the students may feel it is fair for > them to play the system as much as the system is playing them > > I think it was Dashiell Hammett who said we are investigating a world gone > wrong. Why would so many of those who seek to enlighten students ignore > learning science and > make such frequent use of punishment if things have not gone wrong? > > Perhaps our students for all the wrong reasons get it right. Learning is > not a competitive enterprise. Grades are a form of punishment. A school > without grades is like a society without racism. > > Hard work, staying the course are not always what is needed. > > It is not easy. > > Based on my experience and many private posts those who work in the > classroom are rewarded for not using good science. > > Del > > Sarah Murray wrote: > I have the ultimate respect for my students. I do about 20 times the > amount of work necessary to keep my material fresh and interesting. I teach > in a state school, near an inner city, and most of the students are not > anything like their spoiled, entitled counterparts coming out of the schools > in the suburbs in which I live. Many work fulltime and attend school > fulltime. However, I must say, that if there is any display of disrespect > going on, it is the students for the instructors.. or perhaps it is for > learning in general. ( It is generally NOT the minority students who are the > offenders.) > > This is only my second semester, and I've noted people who routinely > decide to attend only every other class; not purchase the book;never > communicate about an anticipated or past absence in an attempt to make up > missed work; miss class on a day they know they are to present material with > no explanation;and never do the reading. I had a recent graduate tell me > that I was very kind, extremely enthusiastic about the subject, creative in > the way I used film, guest speakers and NY Times articles to augment the text > and lecture notes (all this was reflected in all my student > evaluations)...yet this student told me that because I had allowed a student > to make up a missed exam by expanding the content of his term paper, rather > than failing him on the missed exam, I might come across as "weak", and she > went on to extol the virtues of a prof. who made certain students drop her > class after telling those students "You're not smart enough for my class." > > Many students from a working class background, as mine are from, give > respect to those who are stern and punitive. That's the way they've been > socialized to define respect-inspiring behavior. You should hear, in my > Family course, how many say that good parenting -- like they had -- comes > with plenty of corporal discipline! > > Anyway, I love teaching and my students, and I think they really like me, > given that many signed up for my second class after having me for the first > -- but many (mistakenly) see the more creative way I teach (we're analyzing > rap lyrics this morning) as a way that will be more accommodating of their > lax approach to scholarship in general. I haven't witnessed much dedication > to scholarship or much sociological imagination, and I guess the generation > in which they've grown up and the parenting they've experienced has much to > do with that. I hear the same exact remarks from my colleagues. > > And I do think that those who engage in "sloppy" classroom behavior will > have a rude awakening in the work force, where lateness, incomplete work and > lack of communication are punished. I mean, can you imagine if I, as an > adjunct, nonchalantly told my department chair, that (like one of my > students) I was going to miss the first 5 weeks of classes due to a pleasure > trip? > Sarah > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Del Thomas Ph. D. > To: GIMENEZ MARTHA E > Cc: Teach Soc Listserv (E-mail) > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:09 PM > Subject: TEACHSOC: Re: about midterm holidays > > > I find this fascinating as it parallels a quick and dirty study I did, > regarding learning. Teachers were asked which they > would be more likely to do, take away points for untimely/late work or > give points (rewards) for those who have timely/ > on time submissions. 90+% preferred to punish. Why should you > reward them for doing what they should. (note the absence > of respect) This is a classic rejection of the good science on > learning. Another victory for lecture think. > > What is learned are work patterns not suited for the non academic world. > > I do agree that classroom management has become more difficult. I have > had students drop my course because the > 8 to 10 page syllabus was too much reading. The problems come from the > dominant definition of the classroom > situation and the use of untested instructional materials. And of > course our failure to use what we know about social learning. > Based on the punitive content and lack of respect for students in the > posts we may not be willing to focus on learning even > if it was allowed. > > This situation is also difficult for students... perhaps an example of > disenchantment. > > Del > > > > GIMENEZ MARTHA E wrote: > Thank you so much for the very thoughtful and helpful responses I have > received, on and off line. I kept them to use them in the process of > changing my syllabus next semester. I found particularly useful Keith > Roberts suggestion about giving them choices. My concern about giving > less points to make up exams was not intended to punish students but to be > fair to students who had less time to prepare. Also very useful is the > idea of spelling out policy about these issues in the syllabus, calling > students' attention to these policies, making it very clear their > responsibilities during the semester and explaining the reasons why it is > important to develop certain learning and work patterns that will serve > them well as students and beyond. > > I don't know whether it is just my perception but I think issues of class > management have become increasingly demanding and complex in the last few > years - my syllabi are beginning to resemble corporate contracts and I now > require at the graduate level that students tell me in writing that they > understand the course requirements and grading policy. Sigh..... > > > Thanks again - this is what makes this list invaluable. > > Martha > >
