On Tuesday 04 April 2006 01:59, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 04, 2006 at 01:48:33AM +0200, Jean Krohn wrote:
> > On Tuesday 04 April 2006 01:00, you wrote:
> > > Cool. Do you expect Galet to scale? Do you have anything in the way of
> > > routing algorithms or do you rely on broadcast search? We could really
> > > do with some local and semi-local stuff e.g. instant messaging (as an
> > > extra incentive for people to add their friends, for example). How do
> > > you do tunnelling? How do you do search?
> > >
> > > The big thing we have is the routing algorithm IMHO. Maybe our
> > > architectures are complementary.
> >
> > Yes, fortunately it seems that, though our aim is the same, we have
> > started at opposite ends of the problem :-).
> >   ATM, Galet is mostly local (the horizon is 1), so there is no public
> > network on top of it yet, and no routing algorithm or search beyond the
> > immediate neighbours, nor scaling problems.
>
> That's rather what I had hoped.
>
> >   It has an invitation system based on cryptographic tokens to be
> > transmitted through offline means (can be e-mail or whatever). The token
> > consists of the hash of the nodes public key (which serves as the nodes
> > identity) and a shared secret (which serves for the first connection
> > only).
>
> Right. We are going to need to implement some sort of invites system
> soon. It would be very useful to compare notes, although the low level
> details may be somewhat different. How do you deal with this at a high
> level? You just send them a file?

ATM, yes, it is a small XML file with base64-encoded data (oops I forgot, the 
token also contains the nodes address). Though a system of presentation is 
planned (e.g. Bob acts as a match maker for Alice and Charlie). This would be 
very usefull, as people tend to know each other in groups (if Alice knows 
Bob, there is a good chance she also knows Charlie).

> >   The key exchange for normal connections is station-to-station, which
> > provides perfect forward secrecy.
>
> Right. We have an ephemeral Diffie-Hellman at present, but we do have
> pubkeys, and will soon implement STS. Eventually we may use JFK, but
> that's a bit of a monster. (It's VERY nice though).
>
> >   Galet (in SVN) has semi-local IM, as in, if Alice knows Bob who knows
> > Charlie, the three of them can chat together, Bob acting as a relay for
> > the Alice and Charlie's messages. It also has pretty standard local
> > file-sharing (resuming, priorities...).
>
> So 2 hops maximum? I tried to code something like this a while ago... it
> was a pig... all the error cases and so on... But that was with routing,
> and assuming a big network...

No, it works recursively, so Charlie can invite Daniel to join in, and so 
forth... 

> Local filesharing has been suggested for Freenet, I'm not sure exactly
> how it would work, how to integrate it in a clean way, etc. Sharing
> bookmarks (known freenet web sites) is planned, at least.

I do not know for Freenet, but with Galet it was pretty straight forward 
(index files, send index, send file chunks when asked, search on the indexes 
received).

> >   For the tunneling, Alice configures a tunnel in the GUI, by specifying
> > a local port on her machine and a remote host and port to which Bobs
> > machine will forward the data to (like the ssh -L option). Obviously,
> > tunneling is disabled by default (Bob must enable it).
>
> Okay so one hop tunnels then?

Yes.

> > > Oh and Freenet is in Java, and always will be in Java, at least until
> > > 1.0. :| (the language is fine, it's the runtime that's such as
> > > *******). Swing or SWT aren't that far from QT, but anyway, client apps
> > > can be in any language...
> >
> > I do not mind Java at all (a preliminary version of Galet was in Java),
> > but compilation under Windows is not that bad when you get used to it :)
> > and you do not need any extra package installed (JVM), while the
> > application feels more 'native' to the user.
> > And unfortunately I am not familiar with Swing nor SWT...
> >
> > > What core stuff do you think we are missing?
> >
> > I am not familiar with Freenet 0.7, so I cannot tell.
>
> Okay. You should probably try it sometime.

I will :)

> > > Have you read the papers on our routing algorithm?
> >
> > If the routing is the same as of old (1-2 years back) then yes.
> > Am I right to think that 0.7 is the same routing algorithm than before,
> > but on top of a  'darknet' ?
>
> No. Completely new routing algorithm, somewhat DHT-like.

Ok, I will read it.

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