Hi Steve and Evelyn,
Thank you for your responses. You are correct that I don't attend SWR regional meetings, partially because I work weekends and partially because I would rather be caving, hiking or backpacking! :) However I think that it is possible that the consensus of the small number of cavers who attend the SWR regionals may differ from the consensus of the approximately 150 members of the SWR. As Evelyn pointed out, the regionals have poor attendance. The small group that attends regionals may or may not represent the make-up of the entirety of the SWR. There are many other SWR cavers like myself who are unable to attend SWR regional meetings, but still might like to participate in major decisions such as the BLM FOIA and the creation of a federal liason. If either of you are interested, perhaps you could bring up the idea at the upcoming regional about having the SWR enter the digital age and have officer elections and other important events done electronically so that all members can participate whether they can attend regionals and winter technicals or not. While only a few people have spoken out on the discussion board against the SWR BLM FOIA, once again, that may not represent the thoughts of the membership as a whole. Many folks don't actively participate in the discussion board and some folks might feel intimidated to speak their minds if they disagree with what may correctly or incorrectly be perceived as a strongly held majority viewpoint. Others may be smarter than myself and just not want to enter the fray! :) The SWR BLM FOIA is out of the bag and while we disagree about whether it will accomplish the goals of the SWR or not, I hope that this issue will prompt the officers of the SWR to create a more democratic and representative organization in the future. I would also hope that in the future, if some particularly significant and controversial action is being debated that the SWR officers will use Article VI Section 2 of the SWR Constitution to declare a special meeting and have that meeting in a digital fashion so that all members can participate whether they can physically make it to the meeting or not. I hope that everyone who attends the Black Range SWR will have a great time and I look forward to seeing Steve on the 17th. Good caving to all. Stan -----Original Message----- From: Steve Peerman <[email protected]> To: Stan Allison <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, May 31, 2014 7:35 am Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake Stan, You are certainly entitled to your opinion and there are aspects of the way that this has evolved that I wish had happened differently. However, I would like to respond to some of your concerns. On May 30, 2014, at 8:22 PM, Stan Allison wrote: Southwestern Cavers, I am writing to you as a Southwestern Region member and as acaver who leads and participates in exploration, survey and cartographyprojects as well as scientific projects and recreational caving on BLM managedlands. I want to express my disappointment in both the Southwestern Region officerssubmitting a FOIA request to the BLM and the manner in which it was submittedwithout consulting with the SWR membership until after the FOIA had beensubmitted. At the last regional meeting, on June 12, there was a general consensus of those present that "something should be done" in regards to the BLM's closure of the caves, but the exact nature of what should be done was not clear. Regional Chair Meg Sorensen was directed by the membership to write a letter to BLM asking what the management plan was for the caves that were closed under the Federal Register. However she found herself in a difficult position, as an employee of the USFS, dealing with cave management issues herself. She had a conflict of interest, as you yourself have as well. This letter from her had been requested by the SWR membership as early as September, 2013, but had not been done (and, to my knowledge, has still not been done). In your position at Carlsbad Caverns, I think you may be somewhat shielded from the general feeling of cavers in the region. (How many regional meetings have you attended in the last x years? I know, your work schedule makes it difficult to attend regularly.) For the most part, the active cavers of the region feel that the BLM has overstepped its authority in closing the caves, since the expiration of the Federal Register notice. They don't believe there is sufficient reason for closing the caves, and that the closure has been done contrary to the BLM's own policies. However, the expression of these concerns to BLM has fallen on deaf ears, so the FOIA request is an effort to get their attention. I believe that the FOIA request is a bad idea for the followingreasons: I don’t think that this FOIA will result in any change ofmanagement or closures of BLM caves. Reviewing the hundreds to thousands of BLMWNS related emails and correspondence will probably take tens to hundreds ofhours and will probably not reveal anything that we don’t already know. Even ifwe do learn something new, I doubt that it will be substantive enough torequire the BLM to make any significant changes in cave management policies. I certainly hope you are wrong about this. The BLM, as a federal agency, MUST be responsive to the public. They don't have to agree with our concerns, but they must listen to them and they must justify their actions. Submitting a FOIA request to the BLM is the same tactic thatthe Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) used with the BLM. I don’t agree withthe CBD’s tactics in dealing with WNS and federal agencies and in particulardon’t want to see the SWR emulating the CBD’s tactics. I have heard SWR members and officers complain about the CBD tactics indealing with WNS and am surprised that we are now following in their footsteps. The submission of a FOIA request should not be viewed negatively. I wish that the BLM had been more open and responsive to this point, but they were not. (I can't tell you how many e-mails to various folks in BLM about the closure issue have gone unanswered.) What makes the CBD so repulsive is their threats of lawsuit. Responding to this FOIA will take BLM cave managers awayfrom their duties of managing caves and will mean that our tax dollars spendmore time on responding to a frivolous FOIA request rather than managing cavesand karst. I agree, and I wish it had not come to this. But it did. The SWR has a long history of cooperating and working withthe BLM. While we certainly don’t always agree with everything that the BLM hasdone, I think that this FOIA request will damage the SWR BLM relationship andcause more harm than good. I don’t believe that the FOIA request will furtherthe goals of the SWR. Back in the '90s, the Fee Demo program came about. Both the BLM and the USFS made plans to collect fees for caving. The SWR fought both agencies and convinced both to drop their plans. The meetings were often quite contentious, but at least there was a dialog. There has not even been a dialog in the closure issue. At any rate, after the dust settled from the Fee Demo debacle, the relationship between the SWR and both agencies was stronger than ever. The HGRP was a direct result of the confrontation between the SWR and the USFS. I am also disappointed with the SWR officers in notconsulting with the membership before creating a new Federal Liaison positionand submitting a FOIA to the BLM. It appears that a false sense of urgency wascreated in order to rush the process along without consulting the membership. Iwould also hope that a SWR Federal Liaison would work to maintain and build theSWR/BLM relationship rather than damaging our relationship. I think that the SWR officers have made a mistake increating and filling a Federal liaison position without consulting with themembership and that submitting a SWR FOIA request to the BLM without consultingwith the membership was also a mistake. I’m hopeful that the SWR’s past recordof excellent cooperation with the BLM in cave management, science, survey, batmonitoring, exploration, cartography, education, photography, restoration andrecreational caving will help us maintain a good working relationship with theBLM in the future despite this recent blunder. I disagree that it was a blunder. It was a consequence of actions that had occurred over a considerable amount of time. It was also a consequence of SWR Chair Meg Sorensen's conflict of interest. She could not effectively address this issue. By appointing Stephen Fleming as a Federal Liaison, the SWR membership could have an effective spokesman. Thank you for considering my concerns and good caving to allof you. We all have our concerns and we should always feel free to share them. The next SWR meeting is coming up in a few weeks (June 14-15) in the Black Range. I know you'll be caving in FSC but I hope lots of cavers will attend the regional and voice their concerns about this issue. I'm planning on being at the Field House on the 17th when your trip comes out. Maybe there will be some response from the BLM to discuss at that point. Stan Allison _______________________________________________ SWR mailing list [email protected] http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr _______________________________________________ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET Steve Peerman "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." attributed to Mark Twain, but no record exists of his having written this.
_______________________________________________ SWR mailing list [email protected] http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr _______________________________________________ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
