texascavers Digest 18 Mar 2013 16:07:06 -0000 Issue 1724
Topics (messages 21450 through 21463):
Mexico border news
21450 by: David
21451 by: Nico Escamilla
21453 by: freddie poer
East Texas Caver's Cookout - afterthoughts
21452 by: David
Re: Florida sinkhole article
21454 by: Jacqueline Thomas
21455 by: Ted Samsel
Re: Huautla progress report
21456 by: Bill Steele
21457 by: Louise Power
21458 by: Mark Minton
rebuttal on Mexico border topic
21459 by: David
21460 by: jerryatkin.aol.com
Re: concrete stalactites
21461 by: Gill Edigar
21462 by: C Tiderman
21463 by: Louise Power
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I don't know how many cavers north of the border are venturing south
these days to go caving. I can say
that they should not cross the border near the border-town of Reynosa
( south of McAllen ).
I was there about a month ago, and made a faithful effort to act like
a normal tourist for 24 hours.
I did not go anywhere near any cantinas, and only went to an upscale
restaurant and a corner
cafe where families eat tacos de trompo late in the evening.
Just a few hours after I left town, there was a gun-battle with
"alleged" bad-guys being gunned down.
The locals I spoke too were all too terrified to
talk about the situation, and those I spoke to in private said the
town was under complete control
of the cartel, and that every businessman carried a receipt showing
their dues were paid up.
My inside sources tell me that this week has been a very violent one
in Reynosa, and the military
style officers are having gun-battles all over town, and have set up
blockades all over town.
The news media is totally unreliable. YouTube seems to be a
reliable source of info. The tabloid news,
www.lapoliciaca dot com seems to have useful info, but it is hard to
tell how much of it is false, or
exaggerated.
I am guessing that if Reynosa is too dangerous, then any border town
south of Laredo is probably just
as dangerous, and the roads between them and Ciudad Victoria even more
dangerous, especially after
dark.
As many "alleged bad guys" ( aka, sicarios ) as the gov't has killed
in the past year, I would think they
would have run out of bad guys by now and everything would be peaceful.
I am guessing there will be something in the news in a few days about
a lot of people getting gunned
down in Reynosa this past week, as the rumors I am hearing are numbers
higher than normal gun-battles.
Also,
Reynosa is not the only place to be careful.
I have seen several dead bodies lying on the roads of Houston this
past month. So I would not recommend
driving in Houston between the hours of 2 a.m. and 5 a.m. I
would bet the area around Harris County has
more traffic deaths per week than the average cartel related deaths in
the region around the town of Reynosa.
But the victims of these tragedies are different.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David, please go back to your corner and think about what you just did.
Nico
On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 11:42 PM, David <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't know how many cavers north of the border are venturing south
> these days to go caving. I can say
> that they should not cross the border near the border-town of Reynosa
> ( south of McAllen ).
>
> I was there about a month ago, and made a faithful effort to act like
> a normal tourist for 24 hours.
> I did not go anywhere near any cantinas, and only went to an upscale
> restaurant and a corner
> cafe where families eat tacos de trompo late in the evening.
>
> Just a few hours after I left town, there was a gun-battle with
> "alleged" bad-guys being gunned down.
>
> The locals I spoke too were all too terrified to
> talk about the situation, and those I spoke to in private said the
> town was under complete control
> of the cartel, and that every businessman carried a receipt showing
> their dues were paid up.
>
> My inside sources tell me that this week has been a very violent one
> in Reynosa, and the military
> style officers are having gun-battles all over town, and have set up
> blockades all over town.
>
> The news media is totally unreliable. YouTube seems to be a
> reliable source of info. The tabloid news,
> www.lapoliciaca dot com seems to have useful info, but it is hard to
> tell how much of it is false, or
> exaggerated.
>
> I am guessing that if Reynosa is too dangerous, then any border town
> south of Laredo is probably just
> as dangerous, and the roads between them and Ciudad Victoria even more
> dangerous, especially after
> dark.
>
> As many "alleged bad guys" ( aka, sicarios ) as the gov't has killed
> in the past year, I would think they
> would have run out of bad guys by now and everything would be peaceful.
>
> I am guessing there will be something in the news in a few days about
> a lot of people getting gunned
> down in Reynosa this past week, as the rumors I am hearing are numbers
> higher than normal gun-battles.
>
>
> Also,
>
> Reynosa is not the only place to be careful.
>
> I have seen several dead bodies lying on the roads of Houston this
> past month. So I would not recommend
> driving in Houston between the hours of 2 a.m. and 5 a.m. I
> would bet the area around Harris County has
> more traffic deaths per week than the average cartel related deaths in
> the region around the town of Reynosa.
> But the victims of these tragedies are different.
>
> David Locklear
>
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>
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--- Begin Message ---
Me and Martina travel a lot from Austin to Aquismon San Luis Potosi. In our
many travels, we have seen a grand total of zero dead bodies on the side of the
road. No bad experiences in the border towns, absolutely no trouble at all. We
cross at Matamoros, one of the supposed bad places. We have seen nothing to get
alarmed about. As a matter of fact, Mexico sems better than it ever was. In the
past, the occasional mordida, or pay off, was the norm. We have not had to pay
a bribe of any kind in several years. The only people who seem scared, are
foolish Texans, Everyone else seems happy to be in Mexico. If you listen to
people who want to spread fear, then go ahead and be scared. If you want to
have fun and travel in Mexico, then come on down. Mexico is better now than it
has ever been in my many years of experience. We had over thirty cavers in the
Aquismon area this christmas and the only problem was running out of beer. They
all had a good time,
and yes they drove down through Matamoros in the state of Tamaulipas. No
problems at all. Mexico is a lot better now than it was twenty years ago, even
considering reports from people like David who have spent a grand total of a
few hours there in the last several years. If you want to be afraid, then
please keep it to yourself. Otherwise, if you come to Mexico you will probably
have the best time of your life, contrary to reports from people who judge the
whole country from a two or three hour visit in the border towns.
--- On Sun, 3/17/13, Nico Escamilla <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Nico Escamilla <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Mexico border news
To: "David" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Cavers Texas" <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, March 17, 2013, 12:45 AM
David, please go back to your corner and think about what you just did.
Nico
On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 11:42 PM, David <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't know how many cavers north of the border are venturing south
these days to go caving. I can say
that they should not cross the border near the border-town of Reynosa
( south of McAllen ).
I was there about a month ago, and made a faithful effort to act like
a normal tourist for 24 hours.
I did not go anywhere near any cantinas, and only went to an upscale
restaurant and a corner
cafe where families eat tacos de trompo late in the evening.
Just a few hours after I left town, there was a gun-battle with
"alleged" bad-guys being gunned down.
The locals I spoke too were all too terrified to
talk about the situation, and those I spoke to in private said the
town was under complete control
of the cartel, and that every businessman carried a receipt showing
their dues were paid up.
My inside sources tell me that this week has been a very violent one
in Reynosa, and the military
style officers are having gun-battles all over town, and have set up
blockades all over town.
The news media is totally unreliable. YouTube seems to be a
reliable source of info. The tabloid news,
www.lapoliciaca dot com seems to have useful info, but it is hard to
tell how much of it is false, or
exaggerated.
I am guessing that if Reynosa is too dangerous, then any border town
south of Laredo is probably just
as dangerous, and the roads between them and Ciudad Victoria even more
dangerous, especially after
dark.
As many "alleged bad guys" ( aka, sicarios ) as the gov't has killed
in the past year, I would think they
would have run out of bad guys by now and everything would be peaceful.
I am guessing there will be something in the news in a few days about
a lot of people getting gunned
down in Reynosa this past week, as the rumors I am hearing are numbers
higher than normal gun-battles.
Also,
Reynosa is not the only place to be careful.
I have seen several dead bodies lying on the roads of Houston this
past month. So I would not recommend
driving in Houston between the hours of 2 a.m. and 5 a.m. I
would bet the area around Harris County has
more traffic deaths per week than the average cartel related deaths in
the region around the town of Reynosa.
But the victims of these tragedies are different.
David Locklear
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The purpose of this post is not to brag or complain, but to only share
information about some of the aspects of the East Texas Caver's Cookout
and what may be required to ever try to do it again.
I personally spent about $ 2,300 hosting the cookout. I did receive
$ 70 in donations afterwards. Other attendees, including my wife, either
brought food, or provided their labor to cook and clean-up, or all of the above.
I can justify part of that expense, as I was taking my family on what I knew
was going to be an awesome experience camping in one of my favorite
places in Texas. We had a nice cabin for the entire weekend in a very
scenic setting,( although my wife and daughter only used it for one night ).
I chose to sleep in my tent, but would have run for the cabin had thunderstorms
been severe.
Had 80 more people showed up, it would not have cost an extra penny to
the cost of the event. Had 400 people showed up, we would have needed
them to bring some form of food, or pay someone to make a run to the store
for more food.
What needs to be done in the future, is that prospective attendees need to
RSVP and the event needs to be announced much sooner. This may be
easier in the future, as we are on better terms
with the land-owner. I am guessing we could improve land-owner relations
by donating lots of money to the camp for repairs. We need someone local
who either has access to a cooking trailer, or knows someone that can
deliver one inexpensively. I had somnone lined up to do this, but he
stood me up, and I am guessing that is because I didn't wave enough money
at him. The other option is just to buy a big charcoal grill and keep it in
the NaturFest storage unit. I don't want attendees to be expected to
have to do a lot of work cooking and cleaning. I prefer to hire
somebody local.
I did that this time, but the lady didn't show up till 9 p.m.. She
did thoroughly
sanitize the Bath House. That was something I would have liked done
before the guest arrived. Maybe next year, I can hire her again.
Did I mention the
Bath House has awesome hot showers ?
Another thing that needs done in the future, is somehow the word has to get
out to all the cavers in east Texas that a really big event is going on that
is worth attending. The NSS was very supportive this year, and I thank them
for that. Most of the work that I did for NaturFest 2013, was
on-line trying to
invite potential cavers or people that had some kind of background in natural
science, camping, nature, etc. If you do not feel you were properly invited,
please let me know. I did receive some negative feedback about my aggressive
invitations.
I did little on Facebook for this event. I was hoping to use
Google+ to manage
the flow of information. I did a large percentage of that work on my HTC
cell-phone, including all the live reports from NaturFest. All of
my internet use
was done via tethering on my HTC phone through the Cricket wireless
service. I was
not able to do that in years past, so that was a huge help.
On the Friday evening of the event, I was at the NaturFest storage unit with a
rented U-haul cargo van. It was at that time, that I had to make a
decision as to
whether to load up the van with all the accumulated event stuff, or
make some other
plan. I only had 4 cavers who had vaguely expressed interest in
coming, and the
weather forecast looked unpleasant. So I never loaded up the van,
and just parked it
for emergency use. Instead, I made 3 trips in my wife's mini-van
with the bare necessities of what I thought
we might need. I didn't want to have to micro-manage expenses like
that, and in
hindsight that effort to save a 10 or 20 dollars just created extra
work. What I really
needed at that time, was someone at camp on Friday night greeting
visitors, so that I could load
up the U-haul efficiently. I live nearly 2 hours from camp, and it
is not practical for
me to store all this stuff near my house and haul it on the night
before to NaturFest.
Plus I have a really good deal on a storage unit just 5.3 miles from camp.
I would like to see NaturFest have caving related activities. I was hoping
to show a cave related movie on a big screen. It would be nice to
have a rope-practice
session in the trees ( if you can find one still alive ). I was
hoping to display many of the
cave related things I have accumulated, all of which are boxed-up in
the NaturFest storage
building. I also have some boxes of items that I could put in a
caver-related yard-sale.
But all of that is insignificant compared to the over-all goal of
NaturFest. We need to
get young cavers like those at A&M and the other colleges in east
Texas to come out and
socialize. This event is only 45 minutes from the A&M campus, and
only 6 miles from the
campus of Blinn in Brenham.
It is not realistic for NaturFest to attract cavers west of Austin and
San Antonio. And unless,
the event can be properly organized in advance, it is not realistic to
attract cavers from anywhere
west of Brenham. I would like to thank Mike Walsh for coming all
the way from Cedar Park.
In summary, planning NaturFest 2014 is going to require lots of work
and resources. Mark
your calendar for March 8th & 9th, and hopefully there will be someone
crazy enough to do
it again.
David Locklear
NaturFest Association
281-995-8487 ( text-line )
https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/106745323215963190758/106745323215963190758/about
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unfortunately, one can only read this article if s/he is a subscriber. Too,
bad, because the teaser is pretty interesting… Jacqui
On Mar 16, 2013, at 4:45 PM, Mixon Bill wrote:
> I've just read that timely article about Florida sinkholes in the 18 March
> New Yorker. Besides being a well-written (of course) summary of Florida's
> karst geology, the origin of its sinkholes,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One could go to a library.[?]
On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Jacqueline Thomas <[email protected]>wrote:
> Unfortunately, one can only read this article if s/he is a subscriber.
> Too, bad, because the teaser is pretty interesting… Jacqui
>
> On Mar 16, 2013, at 4:45 PM, Mixon Bill wrote:
>
> > I've just read that timely article about Florida sinkholes in the 18
> March New Yorker. Besides being a well-written (of course) summary of
> Florida's karst geology, the origin of its sinkholes,
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
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I'm terribly saddened by this. I didn't know. I spent a week on the 1994
Huautla expedition and my small group helped haul a lot of gear up one deep
pit. I was told that the expedition team remaining left a water-powered battery
recharging rig in a side chamber near Camp 3, and that most ropes to the
surface had been pulled up, coiled and left at the top of drops for future use.
Nothing like what this reports.
I am embarrassed and will be with the British Huautla expedition in two weeks.
That's going be difficult to face.
Bill Steele
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 16, 2013, at 6:05 PM, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
From a participant in the British cave-diving expedion to Huautla in Mexico:
> I was with the advance team who were mainly tasked to get the cave rigged to
> the bottom. We rigged down to the 620 depot and then set up and moved into
> camp 3 for four days. We also had Jason Mallinson, the lead diver with us
> just itching to get in the sump. On the seventh day (from the start of the
> expedition) Jason and his gear arrived at the sump and he dived. He is a top
> diver and relined sumps 1&2 in a single dive lasting 1.5hours, his first
> dive. Since then the rest of the team have moved the other four divers gear
> to the sump in preparation for a week long camp beyond sump 2. There are
> five divers going through both to push sump 9 and to climb the Rio Inglesi
> falls. I think they went through on monday and tuesday this week gone, so
> expect to hear some news by next wednesday.
>
> The one thing that shocked me, in an otherwise fantastic cave, was all the
> trash and gear abandoned by the '94 team. At the sump was the remains of the
> dive platforms, much of which was washed into the sump. There were composite
> cylinders with the pillar valves removed and now full of silt, blatant
> abandonment. Nalgene bottles of batteries which had imploded due to flood
> pressure and now leaking acid. At Camp 3 there were around 30 nalgenes with
> all sorts of crap in them from minging sleeping bags to leaching Kodachrome
> film. There was also the rusting remains of the hydo generator, a huge cable
> drum of untouched fibre optic cable and rusting gas cans. Also, of course,
> were the rounds of rope, often knackered, piled high at pitch heads. We
> started pulling some of it out but don't know if the derig team will be
> strong enough to do it all. Until this trip to Mexico I had been impressed
> with the conservation ethics of the Americans who caved in Mexico, 'take
> nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints', now needs a little
> rephrasing!
--Mixon
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Certainly goes against everything I was told when I first started caving many,
M-A-A-A-A-N-N-N-Y years ago.
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 20:03:49 -0700
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Huautla progress report
It would be nice to hear some justification for the garbage left behind from
the previous trips. What ever happened to the "haul it it, haul it out"
philosophy? Maybe it was too much work? Maybe the pace just took too much out
of the participants? Possibly no one else would see it ever again. Any of the
94 crew care to elaborate? Maybe it is okay to trash the cave for for the
immediate goals of the expedition? Is there any good explanation for this?
Maybe the approach of the almighty expedition cavers needs to be re-examined. I
personally know of several cavers who were "dropped" from the Texas based
expedition cave trips because they could not keep up with the pace set by a
select few individuals. Maybe the problem is with the leaders of such
expeditions. After all, when you are actually endangering the lives of the
people
involved, or in some cases, having fatalities on your trips, it may be time to
re-evaluate your methods. It is not necessary to trash the cave or kill people
to conduct an exploration. Safety and conservation first. Egos should come in a
far second to anything else. Anyone care to comment?
--- On Sat, 3/16/13, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mixon Bill <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Huautla progress report
To: "Cavers Texas" <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, March 16, 2013, 5:05 PM
>From a participant in the British cave-diving expedion to Huautla in Mexico:
> I was with the advance team who were mainly tasked to get the cave rigged to
> the bottom. We rigged down to the 620 depot and then set up and moved into
> camp 3 for four days. We also had Jason Mallinson, the lead diver with us
> just itching to get in the sump. On the seventh day (from the start of the
> expedition) Jason and his gear arrived at the sump and he dived. He is a top
> diver and relined sumps 1&2 in a single dive lasting 1.5hours, his first
> dive. Since then the rest of the team have moved the other four divers gear
> to the sump in preparation for a week long camp beyond sump 2. There are
> five divers going through both to push sump 9 and to climb the Rio Inglesi
> falls. I think they went through on monday and tuesday this week gone, so
> expect to hear some news by next wednesday.
>
>
The one thing that shocked me, in an otherwise fantastic cave, was all the
trash and gear abandoned by the '94 team. At the sump was the remains of the
dive platforms, much of which was washed into the sump. There were composite
cylinders with the pillar valves removed and now full of silt, blatant
abandonment. Nalgene bottles of batteries which had imploded due to flood
pressure and now leaking acid. At Camp 3 there were around 30 nalgenes with
all sorts of crap in them from minging sleeping bags to leaching Kodachrome
film. There was also the rusting remains of the hydo generator, a huge cable
drum of untouched fibre optic cable and rusting gas cans. Also, of course,
were the rounds of rope, often knackered, piled high at pitch heads. We
started pulling some of it out but don't know if the derig team will be strong
enough to do it all. Until this trip to Mexico I had been impressed with the
conservation
ethics of the Americans who caved in Mexico, 'take nothing but photographs,
leave nothing but footprints', now needs a little rephrasing!
--Mixon
----------------------------------------
Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
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Although I was not part of the '94
Huautla expedition, I think I can provide some
useful commentary. Ian Rolland's death while
diving the sump in San Agustín was the result of
a diabetic incident, not the result of obsessive
pushing or the inability to "keep up". (He was
diving solo.) Nor was it due to a fault with the
rebreather; the same unit was used later by
Barbara am Ende without incident on her dive
through the sump. Hid death did, not
surprisingly, have a significant impact on team
morale. It is quite possible that there was
insufficient man- or will power to go back and
clear everything out of the cave by the end of the expedition.
It is also likely that at the time, the
organizers expected to field a return
expedition. In long-term projects like that we
often leave gear staged in the cave for future
use, especially ropes. As it turned out there
was no return expedition, so in retrospect the
gear looked simply abandoned. The ropes may not
have been left high enough, or there may have
been an unusually high flood one year that
damaged them even in a traditionally secure
location. However I must admit that batteries
and open diving cylinders could not have been
expected to be of use even as little as one year
later, so there was little logic in leaving
those. I am also saddened to hear about that.
Mark Minton
At 12:22 AM 3/17/2013, Mimi Jasek wrote:
In fairness to all concerned with both the '94
expedition and the current one, I believe this
thread needs to stop now, and should never actually have been started.
Since one of the main leaders of the '94 one is
, I believe, deep underground on the current one
and can not be reached for comment, the original
post seemed almost a cheap and damaging shot at
the amazing work of many people and a whole
organization. Posting it without having a
rebuttal comment to post with it seems
irresponsible and very poor journalistic behavior.
Besides that, no one I know who has ever had a
life lost on a trip ever gets over it, nor would
ever want that event to be repeated.
With great respect to all involved,
Mimi Jasek
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 16, 2013, at 10:03 PM, freddie poer <[email protected]> wrote:
It would be nice to hear some justification for
the garbage left behind from the previous
trips. What ever happened to the "haul it it,
haul it out" philosophy? Maybe it was too much
work? Maybe the pace just took too much out of
the participants? Possibly no one else would
see it ever again. Any of the 94 crew care to
elaborate? Maybe it is okay to trash the cave
for for the immediate goals of the expedition?
Is there any good explanation for this? Maybe
the approach of the almighty expedition cavers
needs to be re-examined. I personally know of
several cavers who were "dropped" from the
Texas based expedition cave trips because they
could not keep up with the pace set by a select
few individuals. Maybe the problem is with the
leaders of such expeditions. After all, when
you are actually endangering the lives of the
people involved, or in some cases, having
fatalities on your trips, it may be time to
re-evaluate your methods. It is not necessary
to trash the cave or kill people to conduct an
exploration. Safety and conservation first.
Egos should come in a far second to anything else. Anyone care to comment?
--- On Sat, 3/16/13, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mixon Bill <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Huautla progress report
To: "Cavers Texas" <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, March 16, 2013, 5:05 PM
From a participant in the British cave-diving expedion to Huautla in Mexico:
> I was with the advance team who were mainly
tasked to get the cave rigged to the
bottom. We rigged down to the 620 depot and
then set up and moved into camp 3 for four
days. We also had Jason Mallinson, the lead
diver with us just itching to get in the
sump. On the seventh day (from the start of
the expedition) Jason and his gear arrived at
the sump and he dived. He is a top diver and
relined sumps 1&2 in a single dive lasting
1.5hours, his first dive. Since then the rest
of the team have moved the other four divers
gear to the sump in preparation for a week
long camp beyond sump 2. There are five
divers going through both to push sump 9 and
to climb the Rio Inglesi falls. I think they
went through on monday and tuesday this week
gone, so expect to hear some news by next wednesday.
>
> The one thing that shocked me, in an
otherwise fantastic cave, was all the trash
and gear abandoned by the '94 team. At the
sump was the remains of the dive platforms,
much of which was washed into the sump. There
were composite cylinders with the pillar
valves removed and now full of silt, blatant
abandonment. Nalgene bottles of batteries
which had imploded due to flood pressure and
now leaking acid. At Camp 3 there were around
30 nalgenes with all sorts of crap in them
from minging sleeping bags to leaching
Kodachrome film. There was also the rusting
remains of the hydo generator, a huge cable
drum of untouched fibre optic cable and
rusting gas cans. Also, of course, were the
rounds of rope, often knackered, piled high at
pitch heads. We started pulling some of it
out but don't know if the derig team will be
strong enough to do it all. Until this trip
to Mexico I had been impressed with the
conservation ethics of the Americans who caved
in Mexico, 'take nothing but photographs,
leave nothing but footprints', now needs a little rephrasing!
--Mixon
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am very glad cavers are still crossing the border and going to the
Sierra Madres.
I wish I were one of them. I would never purposely spread
information I knew was
false. I was referring to an event that hasn't yet made the news,
and I thought I
made it clear that my sources were rumors.
Here is the first news-story related to what I was hearing thru the grapevine:
http://noticias.mexico.lainformacion.com/policia-y-justicia/policia/enfrentamientos-en-reynosa-dejaron-mas-de-50-muertos-valor-por-tamaulipas_sbVlKdaMgSURqvFtwriwp2/
That article is so vague and obviously is based on rumors. But
none of the mainstream
news sources are talking about more than 5 deaths from 3 different
shoot-outs in the town
of Reynosa that occurred this past Saturday, and none of them are
adding up the tally from several known
shoot-outs that "allegedly" occurred this week, after the big drug
bust that "allegedly occurred" there this
past week.
One news source alleges the police fired 2,000 rounds of ammunition,
and my local sources on the
ground said they heard loud rapid gun-fire all day long near downtown,
and never ever so close to
their house.
I have a unique interest in Reynosa, as that is were my most likely
retirement home is. My
wife's house there is allegedly paid for and I could build another
level on the 3rd floor if I had
the means to. My wife has interest in another home south of
Monterrey in the Las Fuentes
neighborhood, but I am betting we will never see anything become of
that, as she will most
likely leave it to her niece.
However, I hope I am able to retire just west of the town of Brenham,
or more specifically
the town of Burton. And that is a tiny part of the reason, I have
become obsessed with
Camp Happy Hollow and NaturFest. I can picture myself spending
most of Spring Break
every year for the remainder of my life at Camp Happy Hollow
celebrating NaturFest.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's hard to really know the extent to which folks should be concerned about
traveling in Mexico at the moment. Sources from both sides of the border tend
to either deny or embellish the situation based on their prejudices. To say
everything is fine and dandy south of the border is asinine. But to say that it
is a deadly situation for all travelers is equally misleading. Best to be
cautious and well informed if you do travel in areas of known incidents, travel
in a caravan if possible, have a fluent Spanish-speaking person along, and
avoid traveling at night. But to be honest, those have been words of wisdom for
traveling in Mexico for the last 40 years.
Jerry.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 17, 2013, at 10:15 PM, David <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am very glad cavers are still crossing the border and going to the
> Sierra Madres.
> I wish I were one of them. I would never purposely spread
> information I knew was
> false. I was referring to an event that hasn't yet made the news,
> and I thought I
> made it clear that my sources were rumors.
>
> Here is the first news-story related to what I was hearing thru the grapevine:
>
> http://noticias.mexico.lainformacion.com/policia-y-justicia/policia/enfrentamientos-en-reynosa-dejaron-mas-de-50-muertos-valor-por-tamaulipas_sbVlKdaMgSURqvFtwriwp2/
>
> That article is so vague and obviously is based on rumors. But
> none of the mainstream
> news sources are talking about more than 5 deaths from 3 different
> shoot-outs in the town
> of Reynosa that occurred this past Saturday, and none of them are
> adding up the tally from several known
> shoot-outs that "allegedly" occurred this week, after the big drug
> bust that "allegedly occurred" there this
> past week.
>
> One news source alleges the police fired 2,000 rounds of ammunition,
> and my local sources on the
> ground said they heard loud rapid gun-fire all day long near downtown,
> and never ever so close to
> their house.
>
> I have a unique interest in Reynosa, as that is were my most likely
> retirement home is. My
> wife's house there is allegedly paid for and I could build another
> level on the 3rd floor if I had
> the means to. My wife has interest in another home south of
> Monterrey in the Las Fuentes
> neighborhood, but I am betting we will never see anything become of
> that, as she will most
> likely leave it to her niece.
>
> However, I hope I am able to retire just west of the town of Brenham,
> or more specifically
> the town of Burton. And that is a tiny part of the reason, I have
> become obsessed with
> Camp Happy Hollow and NaturFest. I can picture myself spending
> most of Spring Break
> every year for the remainder of my life at Camp Happy Hollow
> celebrating NaturFest.
>
> David Locklear
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The DC field trip associated with the NSS BOG Preston mentioned was
actually under the Lincoln Memorial (not Washington Monument) and had
some formations several feet long, as I recall.
--Ediger
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:35 PM, R D Milhollin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Before their destruction several years back the "Dallas North Central
> Caverns" had some pretty spectacular calcite formations. There are some
> "urban caving" sites in Fort Worth where I have observed soda straws growing
> where concrete structure butted up to other material (brickwork and iron
> pipe) in the same passageway. The formations there were pearl white to
> transparent and grew fast and long, up to 4 feet in length. Vandalism or
> pulse flooding took those out some time back, but last time I looked they
> seem to be growing back.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Louise Power <[email protected]>
> To: texas cavers <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] concrete stalactites
>
> When the Rice Grotto was exploring the "Caves of Houston," we found soda
> straws, draperies and a few other formations. Somewhere in the depths of my
> slide collections (you remember slides), I have pictures. When I finally
> retire, just like a lot of the other people I caved with I'm going to scan
> my slides (if they don't come up with something better by then).
>
> Louise
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Periodically (about the time they hit the floor) the Park Service goes in there
& knocks them all down. It does not take long for them to start growing back.
Carol
________________________________
From: Gill Edigar <[email protected]>
To: R D Milhollin <[email protected]>
Cc: Louise Power <[email protected]>; texas cavers
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] concrete stalactites
The DC field trip associated with the NSS BOG Preston mentioned was
actually under the Lincoln Memorial (not Washington Monument) and had
some formations several feet long, as I recall.
--Ediger
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:35 PM, R D Milhollin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Before their destruction several years back the "Dallas North Central
> Caverns" had some pretty spectacular calcite formations. There are some
> "urban caving" sites in Fort Worth where I have observed soda straws growing
> where concrete structure butted up to other material (brickwork and iron
> pipe) in the same passageway. The formations there were pearl white to
> transparent and grew fast and long, up to 4 feet in length. Vandalism or
> pulse flooding took those out some time back, but last time I looked they
> seem to be growing back.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Louise Power <[email protected]>
> To: texas cavers <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] concrete stalactites
>
> When the Rice Grotto was exploring the "Caves of Houston," we found soda
> straws, draperies and a few other formations. Somewhere in the depths of my
> slide collections (you remember slides), I have pictures. When I finally
> retire, just like a lot of the other people I caved with I'm going to scan
> my slides (if they don't come up with something better by then).
>
> Louise
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can we get them for destroying formations in a federally owned facility?
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:02:04 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] concrete stalactites
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; [email protected]
Periodically (about the time they hit the floor) the Park Service goes in there
& knocks them all down. It does not take long for them to start growing back.
Carol
From: Gill Edigar <[email protected]>
To: R D Milhollin <[email protected]>
Cc: Louise Power <[email protected]>; texas cavers
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] concrete stalactites
The DC field trip associated with the NSS BOG Preston mentioned was
actually under the Lincoln Memorial (not Washington Monument) and had
some formations several feet long, as I recall.
--Ediger
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:35 PM, R D Milhollin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Before their destruction several years back the "Dallas North Central
> Caverns" had some pretty spectacular calcite formations. There are some
> "urban caving" sites in Fort Worth where I have observed soda straws growing
> where concrete structure butted up to other material (brickwork and iron
> pipe) in the same passageway. The formations there were pearl white to
> transparent and grew fast and long, up to 4 feet in length. Vandalism or
> pulse flooding took those out some time back, but last time I looked they
> seem to be growing back.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Louise Power <[email protected]>
> To: texas cavers <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] concrete stalactites
>
> When the Rice Grotto was exploring the "Caves of Houston," we found soda
> straws, draperies and a few other formations. Somewhere in the depths of my
> slide collections (you remember slides), I have pictures. When I finally
> retire, just like a lot of the other people I caved with I'm going to scan
> my slides (if they don't come up with something better by then).
>
> Louise
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
