texascavers Digest 7 Dec 2012 17:57:59 -0000 Issue 1677
Topics (messages 21110 through 21124):
Re: Chagas disease
21110 by: Logan McNatt
Re: La segunda cueva mas larga del mundo, en Quintana Roo, Mèxico
21111 by: George Veni
Kissy Kissy
21112 by: Linda Palit
Triatoma
21113 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
21120 by: Geary Schindel
21122 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
21123 by: Ted Samsel
21124 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
Kissy Kissy Pooh-Pooh
21114 by: Logan McNatt
21115 by: Linda Palit
21118 by: Louise Power
Re: La segunda cueva mas larga
21116 by: Mark Minton
21117 by: Preston Forsythe
Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: La segunda cueva mas larga
21119 by: George Veni
Las Segunda Cueva....
21121 by: Pat Kambesis
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--- Begin Message ---
Interesting discussion. As Aimee said, it's not the bite that can give you
Chagas disease, it's what they do from the other end.
The _first_ time I got bitten by a kissing bug was in 1973 in Rio Frio Cave in Belize. Bit me on my calf and hurt like hell, which is unusual.
Back at Barb MacLeod's house, she told me all about Chagas disease, and that one of the first symptoms could be facial swelling. A week or two
later we were camped in the Caves Branch Cave system when I woke up in the morning and one side of my forehead was swollen the size of a
baseball. I tubed back to the entrance and spent a sleepless night wondering if I should fly back to the states. Fortunately (?) the swelling
was caused by 12 beefworms in my head, which Barb squeezed out over the next week or so. She had to rest a lot because her thumbs hurt.
Then in 1976 I was again camped in the Caves Branch system with Tom Miller. Woke up in the middle of the night to see two kissing bugs at least
an inch long waddling away from me, so engorged with my blood that they could barely move, and the blood visible through their swollen bodies.
I snatched them up and put them in a collecting bottle. Kissing bugs are very common in most Belize caves (and most other tropical caves?), and
over the years I spent a total of several months camped in them. Plus over a year living in thatch huts. Probably had the not-so-little
buggers crawling over me many times while I was asleep.
Hadn't thought about it much until y'all mentioned irregular heart rhythms as being one of the possible long-term symptoms. For over 10 years
I've had what my electro-cardiologist calls "a really weird arrhythmia". Went through a number of heart procedures like cardioversions and
cardiac ablations, and haven't had a problem for over one year now. But I never considered the possibility of Chagas Disease.
In the immortal words of Barbara MacLeod from The Reduviid Song:
Never let a reduviid take a dump in your eye;
If you get kissed bv the kissing bug you can kiss your ass goodbye!
Now you've listened to my story and you ought to know why,
Never let a triatomid take a s*** in your eye.
LowGun
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In case you haven’t heard or can’t read the Spanish below, Sistema Sac Actun
and Sistema Dos Ojos, two massive underwater caves in Quintana Roo, Mexico,
have been connected for a combined length of 303 km, making it the second
longest cave in the world. Not too far away is 240 km long Sistema Ox Bel Ha.
When (not if), that connection is made, the total length will be at least
within 85 km of Mammoth Cave’s current length of 628 km. Considering how many
other caves are in the area and the rate they are being surveyed, don’t be
surprised if in a short time the longest cave in the world is in Mexico and
underwater! Congratulations to all involved for a fantastic accomplishment.
As an interesting historical note, when Mammoth became the longest cave in 1972
through its connection to the Flint Ridge Cave System, its total length was
only 232 km.
George
***************************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
[email protected]
www.nckri.org
_____
From: AIDA <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2012 9:23 PM
Subject: [tlamaqui] La segunda cueva mas larga del mundo, en Quintana Roo,
Mèxico
Hola amantes de cuevas,
éste es un anuncio corto pero conciso, pequeño pero rinconero:
El articulo acerca la conexión del Sistema Dos Ojos con el Sistema Sac Actun
acaba de aparecer recientemente en el noticiario de la NSS. Oficialmente es la
segunda cueva mas larga en el mundo con una longitud de 303 km, localizado en
Quintana Roo, Mèxico. Pronto será enlistado como tal en la página oficial de
QRSS. Cabe mencionar que el joven
quintanarooense Jacinto Vela, fue el primero en escurrirse por el pequeño
acceso que hizo la conexión posible. Mando mapa y mas info como archivo adjunto.
Saludos! Aida F.
___
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seen lots of these bugs. In my SA house and all over south Texas they ate
around. It is a dangerous world.
Linda.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The three months Ann and I recently spent in the high west were an
interbugnum, one of those rare times in our lives when nothing was biting us.
We
arrived back home in Florida to discover that the entire inside of our house
had turned blue and our bed was a pustulent pulsating blue green blob. I
stripped off the sheets in horror and was enveloped in a choking cloud of
spores that almost induced anaphylactic shock. I yanked the windows open and
ran out onto the porch to gasp for air and get a fan.
Hours later I ventured back in to put on new sheets. We were exhausted from
having slept on the ground for the previous three months so it was time
for bed.
When I awoke I was still groggy from antihistamines, jet lag, and spore
induced bronchitis. As I staggered over to my stack of tee shirts (also blue
from mold) I felt something on my neck which I supposed to be a spider so I
brushed it off but when I looked down at the floor there was nothing there.
I thought that was odd because at Weazelworld spiders and humans live in
perfect harmony, they never bother me and I never bother them. But where was
the spider?
About twenty minutes later while drinking my coffee I gradually became
aware of a terrible itch on the back of my neck. I had been scratching at it
for several minutes before even being aware of what I was doing. I had clawed
my skin raw where half a dozen angry red welts were rapidly rising on my
neck. Dr. Ann confirmed what I already supposed, that I had been fed upon by
one or more Triatoma sanguisugas.
They live in pairs and may even be monogamous. They had a very good meal so
they have gone to tend their brood and haven’t been back. But they are
still out there and they will be back.
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce,
You should find an infectious disease doctor and get tested (probably for lots
of things). Plus I’m sure you will be an infectious disease Drs favorite
patient and maybe a life long project (as long as it lasts) – they get tired of
AIDS and Hepatitis patients day after day.
Geary
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 8:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Triatoma
The three months Ann and I recently spent in the high west were an interbugnum,
one of those rare times in our lives when nothing was biting us. We arrived
back home in Florida to discover that the entire inside of our house had turned
blue and our bed was a pustulent pulsating blue green blob. I stripped off the
sheets in horror and was enveloped in a choking cloud of spores that almost
induced anaphylactic shock. I yanked the windows open and ran out onto the
porch to gasp for air and get a fan.
Hours later I ventured back in to put on new sheets. We were exhausted from
having slept on the ground for the previous three months so it was time for bed.
When I awoke I was still groggy from antihistamines, jet lag, and spore induced
bronchitis. As I staggered over to my stack of tee shirts (also blue from mold)
I felt something on my neck which I supposed to be a spider so I brushed it off
but when I looked down at the floor there was nothing there. I thought that was
odd because at Weazelworld spiders and humans live in perfect harmony, they
never bother me and I never bother them. But where was the spider?
About twenty minutes later while drinking my coffee I gradually became aware of
a terrible itch on the back of my neck. I had been scratching at it for several
minutes before even being aware of what I was doing. I had clawed my skin raw
where half a dozen angry red welts were rapidly rising on my neck. Dr. Ann
confirmed what I already supposed, that I had been fed upon by one or more
Triatoma sanguisugas.
They live in pairs and may even be monogamous. They had a very good meal so
they have gone to tend their brood and haven’t been back. But they are still
out there and they will be back.
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 12/7/2012 8:38:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Bruce,
You should find an infectious disease doctor and get tested (probably for
lots of things). Plus I’m sure you will be an infectious disease Drs
favorite patient and maybe a life long project (as long as it lasts) – they
get
tired of AIDS and Hepatitis patients day after day.
Geary
You are so wrong about that. Doctors hate it when confronted with anything
novel, and for liability reasons will flat out refuse to treat you if lab
tests are inconclusive even when it is obvious that you are sick with a
common disease killing millions around the globe. So it was for me with
malaria, amoebiasis, strongylodiasis, and various tick bourn diseases among
others of unknown etiology. If you complain that they are not addressing the
obvious the doctor simply fires you.
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You go to the wrong doctors. Try a medical school that specializes in
tropical medicine.
T
On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 11:21 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> **
>
>
> In a message dated 12/7/2012 8:38:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> Bruce,****
>
> ****
>
> You should find an infectious disease doctor and get tested (probably for
> lots of things). Plus I’m sure you will be an infectious disease Drs
> favorite patient and maybe a life long project (as long as it lasts) – they
> get tired of AIDS and Hepatitis patients day after day.****
>
> ****
>
> Geary
>
>
> You are so wrong about that. Doctors hate it when confronted with anything
> novel, and for liability reasons will flat out refuse to treat you if lab
> tests are inconclusive even when it is obvious that you are sick with a
> common disease killing millions around the globe. So it was for me with
> malaria, amoebiasis, strongylodiasis, and various tick bourn diseases among
> others of unknown etiology. If you complain that they are not addressing
> the obvious the doctor simply fires you.
>
> Sleaze
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have. I live here in Gainesville which is full of tropical researchers
and doctors, none of whom can tell shit (as in a fresh specimen) from
shinola.
In a message dated 12/7/2012 12:31:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
You go to the wrong doctors. Try a medical school that specializes in
tropical medicine.
T
On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 11:21 AM, <[email protected]_
(mailto:[email protected]) > wrote:
In a message dated 12/7/2012 8:38:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes:
Bruce,
You should find an infectious disease doctor and get tested (probably for
lots of things). Plus I’m sure you will be an infectious disease Drs
favorite patient and maybe a life long project (as long as it lasts) – they
get
tired of AIDS and Hepatitis patients day after day.
Geary
You are so wrong about that. Doctors hate it when confronted with anything
novel, and for liability reasons will flat out refuse to treat you if lab
tests are inconclusive even when it is obvious that you are sick with a
common disease killing millions around the globe. So it was for me with
malaria, amoebiasis, strongylodiasis, and various tick bourn diseases among
others of unknown etiology. If you complain that they are not addressing the
obvious the doctor simply fires you.
Sleaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12/6/2012 8:11 PM, Linda Palit wrote: Seen lots of these bugs. In my SA
house and all over south Texas they ate around. It is a dangerous world.
Yeah Linda, I have too, even growing up in north central Texas (Brownwood). But I never found the ones up here crawling on me at night or
biting me, nor saw them commonly in caves. And the ones in Central America are on steroids compared to those up here in terms of size and blood
lust. It's not just the bugs you see, but the parasites you don't see. According to what Barb initially told me, and what the CDC site says
right now: ". . .the parasite /Trypanosoma cruzi/, which is transmitted to animals and people by insect vectors and is found only in the
Americas (mainly, in rural areas of Latin America where poverty is widespread). Yeah, "it is a dangerous world". You can get "pooh-poohed"
anywhere, anytime! Ha, gotcha!
LowGun
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No. Serious. I wonder what parasites, amoebae, whatever I have. And glad
to still be kick in'!
On Thursday, December 6, 2012, Logan McNatt wrote:
>
> On 12/6/2012 8:11 PM, Linda Palit wrote: Seen lots of these bugs. In my SA
> house and all over south Texas they ate around. It is a dangerous world.
>
> Yeah Linda, I have too, even growing up in north central Texas
> (Brownwood). But I never found the ones up here crawling on me at night or
> biting me, nor saw them commonly in caves. And the ones in Central America
> are on steroids compared to those up here in terms of size and blood lust.
> It's not just the bugs you see, but the parasites you don't see. According
> to what Barb initially told me, and what the CDC site says right now: ". .
> .the parasite *Trypanosoma cruzi*, which is transmitted to animals and
> people by insect vectors and is found only in the Americas (mainly, in
> rural areas of Latin America where poverty is widespread). Yeah, "it is a
> dangerous world". You can get "pooh-poohed" anywhere, anytime! Ha, gotcha!
>
> LowGun
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone mentioned this to Jim Conrad? He spent so much time living in the
tropics, I wonder if he's encountered kissing bugs in any of his "grass
shacks." If anyone, he would be very vulnerable to Chagas. Probably wouldn't
hurt to ask.
Louise
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 21:01:34 -0600
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Kissy Kissy Pooh-Pooh
On 12/6/2012 8:11 PM, Linda Palit
wrote: Seen lots of these bugs. In my SA house and all over south
Texas they ate around. It is a dangerous world.
Yeah Linda, I have too, even growing up in north central Texas
(Brownwood). But I never found the ones up here crawling on me at
night or biting me, nor saw them commonly in caves. And the ones
in Central America are on steroids compared to those up here in
terms of size and blood lust. It's not just the bugs you see, but
the parasites you don't see. According to what Barb initially
told me, and what the CDC site says right now: ". . .the parasite
Trypanosoma cruzi, which is transmitted to animals and
people by insect vectors and is found only in the Americas
(mainly, in rural areas of Latin America where poverty is
widespread). Yeah, "it is a dangerous world". You can get
"pooh-poohed" anywhere, anytime! Ha, gotcha!
LowGun
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Minor update. According to Jim Coke
(QRSS), another connection has pushed the length
of Sac Actun to over 308 km. The longest cave in
the world might well end up in Quintana Roo,
although if (when) Fisher Ridge connects to
Mammoth, that'll add another 200 km to the latter.
Mark
At 07:21 PM 12/6/2012, George Veni wrote:
In case you haven't heard or can't read the
Spanish below, Sistema Sac Actun and Sistema Dos
Ojos, two massive underwater caves in Quintana
Roo, Mexico, have been connected for a combined
length of 303 km, making it the second longest
cave in the world. Not too far away is 240 km
long Sistema Ox Bel Ha. When (not if), that
connection is made, the total length will be at
least within 85 km of Mammoth Cave's current
length of 628 km. Considering how many other
caves are in the area and the rate they are
being surveyed, don't be surprised if in a short
time the longest cave in the world is in Mexico
and underwater! Congratulations to all involved for a fantastic accomplishment.
As an interesting historical note, when Mammoth
became the longest cave in 1972 through its
connection to the Flint Ridge Cave System, its total length was only 232 km.
George
***************************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215Â USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
[email protected]
www.nckri.org
From: AIDA <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2012 9:23 PM
Subject: [tlamaqui] La segunda cueva mas larga
del mundo, en Quintana Roo, Mexico
Hola amantes de cuevas,
éste es un anuncio corto pero conciso, pequeño pero rinconero:
El articulo acerca la conexión del Sistema Dos
Ojos con el Sistema Sac Actun acaba de aparecer
recientemente en el noticiario de la NSS.
Oficialmente es la segunda cueva mas larga en el
mundo con una longitud de 303 km, localizado en
Quintana Roo, Mexico. Pronto será enlistado como
tal en la página oficial de QRSS. Cabe mencionar que el joven
quintanarooense Jacinto Vela, fue el primero
en escurrirse por el pequeño acceso que hizo la
conexión posible. Mando mapa y mas info como archivo adjunto.
Saludos! Aida F.
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
More than a few years ago I went to the closest spot between Fisher and
Roppel (MaCa). Joe Saunders led me to this upper rocky crawl where I went to
the bitter end, rocky collapse, and placed a sign Joe had given me, stating
something to the effect, we (Fisher Ridge) does not want to be swallowed. Do
not come any closer! I wonder if that is still the closest spot? Since it
was an upper level rocky crawl that area is not given much hope to connect.
We went in from the Remington Entr. to Fisher. Fun times with Joe.
Cavingly,
Preston Forsythe
-------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Minton" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 10:06 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: La segunda cueva mas larga
Minor update. According to Jim Coke
(QRSS), another connection has pushed the length
of Sac Actun to over 308 km. The longest cave in
the world might well end up in Quintana Roo,
although if (when) Fisher Ridge connects to
Mammoth, that'll add another 200 km to the latter.
Mark
At 07:21 PM 12/6/2012, George Veni wrote:
In case you haven't heard or can't read the Spanish below, Sistema Sac
Actun and Sistema Dos Ojos, two massive underwater caves in Quintana Roo,
Mexico, have been connected for a combined length of 303 km, making it the
second longest cave in the world. Not too far away is 240 km long Sistema
Ox Bel Ha. When (not if), that connection is made, the total length will be
at least within 85 km of Mammoth Cave's current length of 628 km.
Considering how many other caves are in the area and the rate they are
being surveyed, don't be surprised if in a short time the longest cave in
the world is in Mexico and underwater! Congratulations to all involved for
a fantastic accomplishment.
As an interesting historical note, when Mammoth became the longest cave in
1972 through its connection to the Flint Ridge Cave System, its total
length was only 232 km.
George
***************************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215� USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
[email protected]
www.nckri.org
From: AIDA <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2012 9:23 PM
Subject: [tlamaqui] La segunda cueva mas larga del mundo, en Quintana Roo,
Mexico
Hola amantes de cuevas,
�ste es un anuncio corto pero conciso, peque�o pero rinconero:
El articulo acerca la conexi�n del Sistema Dos Ojos con el Sistema Sac
Actun acaba de aparecer recientemente en el noticiario de la NSS.
Oficialmente es la segunda cueva mas larga en el mundo con una longitud de
303 km, localizado en Quintana Roo, Mexico. Pronto ser� enlistado como tal
en la p�gina oficial de QRSS. Cabe mencionar que el joven
quintanarooense Jacinto Vela, fue el primero en escurrirse por el peque�o
acceso que hizo la conexi�n posible. Mando mapa y mas info como archivo
adjunto.
Saludos! Aida F.
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if this very real threat of losing the #1 spot will prompt some
people to reconsider their interest in connecting Mammoth to Fischer Ridge.
George
***************************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
[email protected]
www.nckri.org
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Preston Forsythe
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 21:38
To: Mark Minton; [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SWR] [Texascavers] Re: La segunda cueva mas larga
More than a few years ago I went to the closest spot between Fisher and
Roppel (MaCa). Joe Saunders led me to this upper rocky crawl where I went to
the bitter end, rocky collapse, and placed a sign Joe had given me, stating
something to the effect, we (Fisher Ridge) does not want to be swallowed. Do
not come any closer! I wonder if that is still the closest spot? Since it
was an upper level rocky crawl that area is not given much hope to connect.
We went in from the Remington Entr. to Fisher. Fun times with Joe.
Cavingly,
Preston Forsythe
-------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Minton" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 10:06 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: La segunda cueva mas larga
Minor update. According to Jim Coke
(QRSS), another connection has pushed the length
of Sac Actun to over 308 km. The longest cave in
the world might well end up in Quintana Roo,
although if (when) Fisher Ridge connects to
Mammoth, that'll add another 200 km to the latter.
Mark
At 07:21 PM 12/6/2012, George Veni wrote:
>In case you haven't heard or can't read the Spanish below, Sistema Sac
>Actun and Sistema Dos Ojos, two massive underwater caves in Quintana Roo,
>Mexico, have been connected for a combined length of 303 km, making it the
>second longest cave in the world. Not too far away is 240 km long Sistema
>Ox Bel Ha. When (not if), that connection is made, the total length will be
>at least within 85 km of Mammoth Cave's current length of 628 km.
>Considering how many other caves are in the area and the rate they are
>being surveyed, don't be surprised if in a short time the longest cave in
>the world is in Mexico and underwater! Congratulations to all involved for
>a fantastic accomplishment.
>
>As an interesting historical note, when Mammoth became the longest cave in
>1972 through its connection to the Flint Ridge Cave System, its total
>length was only 232 km.
>
>George
>
>***************************
>
>George Veni, Ph.D.
>Executive Director
>National Cave and Karst Research Institute
>400-1 Cascades Avenue
>Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215Â USA
>Office: 575-887-5517
>Mobile: 210-863-5919
>Fax: 575-887-5523
>[email protected]
>www.nckri.org
>
>From: AIDA <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2012 9:23 PM
>Subject: [tlamaqui] La segunda cueva mas larga del mundo, en Quintana Roo,
>Mexico
>
>Hola amantes de cuevas,
>éste es un anuncio corto pero conciso, pequeño pero rinconero:
>El articulo acerca la conexión del Sistema Dos Ojos con el Sistema Sac
>Actun acaba de aparecer recientemente en el noticiario de la NSS.
>Oficialmente es la segunda cueva mas larga en el mundo con una longitud de
>303 km, localizado en Quintana Roo, Mexico. Pronto será enlistado como tal
>en la página oficial de QRSS. Cabe mencionar que el joven
> quintanarooense Jacinto Vela, fue el primero en escurrirse por el pequeño
> acceso que hizo la conexión posible. Mando mapa y mas info como archivo
> adjunto.
>Saludos! Aida F.
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to the Peter Quick (Fisher Ridge project leader), they have
tried hard to find passages heading in the Mammoth Cave direction and
have so far not been successful. That does not means its not possible
- its just not currently imminent.
The next potential viable connection to Mammoth Cave is Whigpistle
Cave which would add about 37 miles to the system - and efforts are
currently ongoing for making that connection. Note NSS New about
connection potentials and length of Maca - the "dark horse" referenced
in the article is the great underwater caves of the Yucatan!
pk
--- End Message ---
