texascavers Digest 2 Dec 2011 00:36:24 -0000 Issue 1446
Topics (messages 19132 through 19139):
Re: 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
19132 by: Linda Palit
19134 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
19135 by: Denise P
19139 by: Jerry
Ceremonial Cave
19133 by: Pete Lindsley
a map of Bustamante cave
19136 by: Espeleo Coahuila
19138 by: Mark Minton
Fenix HP-11 (Light, not a calculator)
19137 by: Pete Lindsley
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
I am glad to see that so many people still feel ownership of TSA. It might
be even more effective if all those people attend the meetings and offer
their input and opinions there. I have not seen all that many at recent
TSA meetings, including the most recent one at TCR. I was not at that
meeting, since I was still cooking breakfast for the masses. I would say
that, even though we all feel ownership, the way to pass on those valuable
historical insights and to have your voice heard is to attend the meetings
and to communicate with the officers. Being an officer sometimes feels
like a thankless job, and there is often ample criticism and minimal
appreciation. So Thanks to all who are serving and have served, and cheers
to those of you who decide to serve again. Bylaws can be changed or more
meetings can be scheduled. Let's all continue to contribute to the growth
of TSA.
Linda
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Jerry <[email protected]> wrote:
> It might have been prudent for someone to ask if there was a reason to
> hold a TSA Winter Business meeting before just cancelling it because "it
> was close to both the fall and spring meetings". The Winter meeting
> introduces the new officers to the membership and formally inducts them
> into the responsibilities of the Executive Council. It was found that it
> was best to have a meeting early on in the year so that the new slate of
> officers don't wait until the Spring Convention to start working on TSA
> business or really giving it much thought.
>
> ..... sorta like the way you all decided to get rid of it, -- not much
> thought..... just convenience ....
>
> Jerry.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julia Germany <[email protected]>
> To: Mark.Alman <[email protected]>; Texascavers <
> [email protected]>
> Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:47 pm
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
>
> Well, that clears up everything.
>
> So - three meetings were held in 2011.
>
> And, until the by-laws are changed, there need to be three meetings in
> 2012.
>
> Then, it's up to the new administration to follow or change the by-laws
> concerning the number of meetings they hold in 2012.
>
> Cool! Thanks for clearing that up, Mark!
>
> And, I like Ryan's idea that we hold one of the meetings at/in/near water,
> and preferably in a cave.........
>
> julia
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark.Alman <[email protected]>
> To: Julia Germany <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:31 pm
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
>
> Yes and yes.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> *From:* Julia Germany [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]?>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:24 PM
> *To:* Alman, Mark @ SSG - WSG - EOS
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
>
> I'm getting confused.
>
> So, you did have three meetings in 2011?
>
> So, this discussion is about the 2012 business meeting?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark.Alman <[email protected]>
> To: Julia Germany <[email protected]>; JerryAtkin <[email protected]>;
> ellie.thoene <[email protected]>; trhli <[email protected]>
> Cc: texascavers <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:15 pm
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
>
> From by the by-laws, a.k.a, TSA Constitution:
>
>
>
> *Article V: MEETINGS.* At least three TSA meetings shall be held each
> calendar year. The time and place of all TSA meetings shall be announced
> through a regular publication of the TSA, or by electronic mail to all
> members of record. TSA meetings shall be called by the officers or by
> written petition of 20% of all TSA members.
>
>
> Since we’ve already had our three meetings for 2011, deciding when to
> schedule another one for 2012 can be done at the Spring Convention Business
> Meeting (or an hour before, as Stefan proposes. I always liked the way you
> think, Stefan!).
>
> As you can see, no specific dates or venues are specified.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> *From:* Julia Germany [*mailto:[email protected]* <[email protected]?>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:05 PM
> *To:* *[email protected]* <[email protected]>;
> *[email protected]*<[email protected]>;
> *[email protected]* <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* *[email protected]* <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
>
>
> Since the "winter" meeting was cancelled, and the by-laws were not changed
> to reflect having only two meetings a year, there needs to be a third
> meeting for 2011 before there is a first meeting for 2012 to be right with
> the by-laws. I haven't looked at the by-laws in while - do they state when
> the meetings must take place?
>
> As a reminder, when seeking grant funds, funders almost always ask for a
> copy of the by-laws, and may ask for copies of the official meeting minutes
> to make sure you are following the rules of your by-laws.
>
> julia
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JerryAtkin <*[email protected]* <[email protected]>>
> To: ellie.thoene <*[email protected]* <[email protected]>>;
> trhli <*[email protected]* <[email protected]>>
> Cc: texascavers <*[email protected]*<[email protected]>
> >
> Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:57 am
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
> That's all well and good, but the TSA Bylaws stipulate at least 3
> membership meetings per year. Given that there will be a TSA meeting at
> the Spring Convention and in the Fall, when do the officers propose to hold
> another meeting to comply with the Bylaws ?
>
> Jerry.
>
> In a message dated 11/29/2011 5:29:20 P.M. Central Standard Time, *
> [email protected]* <[email protected]> writes:
>
> Please see in the 2011 Fall Meeting Minutes Archive Page *
> http://www.cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html*<http://www.cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html>that
> "Alman asked if people think a Winter Business Meeting is really
> necessary since it is so close to the fall and spring meetings. A motion
> was made to cancel the Winter Business Meeting. Seconded and motion
> carried".
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you would have been there, Jerry, you would have known that we asked if
there was anything pressing to address at a Winter Meeting.
Since all in attendance, minus you, determined that there wasn’t anything
pressing, we decided to cancel it.
Attend sometime or, at least, read the minutes.
Denise does a wonderful job documenting everything and Butch gets it posted
immediately.
Only 31 more days.
Mark
From: Jerry [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:20 PM
To: [email protected]; Alman, Mark @ SSG - WSG - EOS; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
It might have been prudent for someone to ask if there was a reason to hold a
TSA Winter Business meeting before just cancelling it because "it was close to
both the fall and spring meetings".
Jerry.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was not cancelled for convenience, it just did not seem to be necessary.
The officers keep in touch in between meetings by email and don't wait until
meetings to start working on TSA business. We work on it year-round.
Since you are so knowledgeable, you should run for office and do all the work.
You can have my job. I certainly won't be running again.
-Denise
To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:20:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
It might have been prudent for someone to ask if there was a reason to hold a
TSA Winter Business meeting before just cancelling it because "it was close to
both the fall and spring meetings". The Winter meeting introduces the new
officers to the membership and formally inducts them into the responsibilities
of the Executive Council. It was found that it was best to have a meeting early
on in the year so that the new slate of officers don't wait until the Spring
Convention to start working on TSA business or really giving it much thought.
..... sorta like the way you all decided to get rid of it, -- not much
thought..... just convenience ....
Jerry.
-----Original Message-----
From: Julia Germany <[email protected]>
To: Mark.Alman <[email protected]>; Texascavers
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
Well, that clears up everything.
So - three meetings were held in 2011.
And, until the by-laws are changed, there need to be three meetings in 2012.
Then, it's up to the new administration to follow or change the by-laws
concerning the number of meetings they hold in 2012.
Cool! Thanks for clearing that up, Mark!
And, I like Ryan's idea that we hold one of the meetings at/in/near water, and
preferably in a cave.........
julia
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark.Alman <[email protected]>
To: Julia Germany <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:31 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
Yes and yes.
Mark
From: Julia Germany [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:24 PM
To: Alman, Mark @ SSG - WSG - EOS
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
I'm getting confused.
So, you did have three meetings in 2011?
So, this discussion is about the 2012 business meeting?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark.Alman <[email protected]>
To: Julia Germany <[email protected]>; JerryAtkin <[email protected]>;
ellie.thoene <[email protected]>; trhli <[email protected]>
Cc: texascavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:15 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
>From by the by-laws, a.k.a, TSA Constitution:
Article V: MEETINGS. At least three TSA meetings shall be held each calendar
year. The time and place of all TSA meetings shall be announced through a
regular publication of the TSA, or by electronic mail to all members of record.
TSA meetings shall be called by the officers or by written petition of 20% of
all TSA members.
Since we’ve already had our three meetings for 2011, deciding when to schedule
another one for 2012 can be done at the Spring Convention Business Meeting (or
an hour before, as Stefan proposes. I always liked the way you think, Stefan!).
As you can see, no specific dates or venues are specified.
Mark
From: Julia Germany [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:05 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
Since the "winter" meeting was cancelled, and the by-laws were not changed to
reflect having only two meetings a year, there needs to be a third meeting for
2011 before there is a first meeting for 2012 to be right with the by-laws. I
haven't looked at the by-laws in while - do they state when the meetings must
take place?
As a reminder, when seeking grant funds, funders almost always ask for a copy
of the by-laws, and may ask for copies of the official meeting minutes to make
sure you are following the rules of your by-laws.
julia
-----Original Message-----
From: JerryAtkin <[email protected]>
To: ellie.thoene <[email protected]>; trhli <[email protected]>
Cc: texascavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:57 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
That's all well and good, but the TSA Bylaws stipulate at least 3 membership
meetings per year. Given that there will be a TSA meeting at the Spring
Convention and in the Fall, when do the officers propose to hold another
meeting to comply with the Bylaws ?
Jerry.
In a message dated 11/29/2011 5:29:20 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Please see in the 2011 Fall Meeting Minutes Archive Page
http://www.cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html that "Alman asked if people
think a Winter Business Meeting is really necessary since it is so close to the
fall and spring meetings. A motion was made to cancel the Winter Business
Meeting. Seconded and motion carried".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Been there, done that, read your history, girl.
Jerry.
-----Original Message-----
From: Denise P <[email protected]>
To: jerryatkin <[email protected]>; Mark Alman <[email protected]>;
TexasCavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:25 am
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
It was not cancelled for convenience, it just did not seem to be necessary.
The officers keep in touch in between meetings by email and don't wait until
meetings to start working on TSA business. We work on it year-round.
Since you are so knowledgeable, you should run for office and do all the work.
You can have my job. I certainly won't be running again.
-Denise
To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:20:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
It might have been prudent for someone to ask if there was a reason to hold a
TSA Winter Business meeting before just cancelling it because "it was close to
both the fall and spring meetings". The Winter meeting introduces the new
officers to the membership and formally inducts them into the responsibilities
of the Executive Council. It was found that it was best to have a meeting early
on in the year so that the new slate of officers don't wait until the Spring
Convention to start working on TSA business or really giving it much thought.
..... sorta like the way you all decided to get rid of it, -- not much
thought..... just convenience ....
Jerry.
-----Original Message-----
From: Julia Germany <[email protected]>
To: Mark.Alman <[email protected]>; Texascavers
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
Well, that clears up everything.
So - three meetings were held in 2011.
And, until the by-laws are changed, there need to be three meetings in 2012.
Then, it's up to the new administration to follow or change the by-laws
concerning the number of meetings they hold in 2012.
Cool! Thanks for clearing that up, Mark!
And, I like Ryan's idea that we hold one of the meetings at/in/near water, and
preferably in a cave.........
julia
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark.Alman <[email protected]>
To: Julia Germany <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:31 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
Yes and yes.
Mark
From: Julia Germany [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:24 PM
To: Alman, Mark @ SSG - WSG - EOS
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
I'm getting confused.
So, you did have three meetings in 2011?
So, this discussion is about the 2012 business meeting?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark.Alman <[email protected]>
To: Julia Germany <[email protected]>; JerryAtkin <[email protected]>;
ellie.thoene <[email protected]>; trhli <[email protected]>
Cc: texascavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:15 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
>From by the by-laws, a.k.a, TSA Constitution:
Article V: MEETINGS. At least three TSA meetings shall be held each calendar
year. The time and place of all TSA meetings shall be announced through a
regular publication of the TSA, or by electronic mail to all members of record.
TSA meetings shall be called by the officers or by written petition of 20% of
all TSA members.
Since we’ve already had our three meetings for 2011, deciding when to schedule
another one for 2012 can be done at the Spring Convention Business Meeting (or
an hour before, as Stefan proposes. I always liked the way you think, Stefan!).
As you can see, no specific dates or venues are specified.
Mark
From: Julia Germany [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:05 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
Since the "winter" meeting was cancelled, and the by-laws were not changed to
reflect having only two meetings a year, there needs to be a third meeting for
2011 before there is a first meeting for 2012 to be right with the by-laws. I
haven't looked at the by-laws in while - do they state when the meetings must
take place?
As a reminder, when seeking grant funds, funders almost always ask for a copy
of the by-laws, and may ask for copies of the official meeting minutes to make
sure you are following the rules of your by-laws.
julia
-----Original Message-----
From: JerryAtkin <[email protected]>
To: ellie.thoene <[email protected]>; trhli <[email protected]>
Cc: texascavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:57 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2012 TSA Spring Convention *Save The Date*
That's all well and good, but the TSA Bylaws stipulate at least 3 membership
meetings per year. Given that there will be a TSA meeting at the Spring
Convention and in the Fall, when do the officers propose to hold another
meeting to comply with the Bylaws ?
Jerry.
In a message dated 11/29/2011 5:29:20 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Please see in the 2011 Fall Meeting Minutes Archive Page
http://www.cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html that "Alman asked if people
think a Winter Business Meeting is really necessary since it is so close to the
fall and spring meetings. A motion was made to cancel the Winter Business
Meeting. Seconded and motion carried".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting Web Site
http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/ceremonial/index.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi cavers!
I hope you are well,
I want to know if you can share with me a map of Bustamante cave, my
friends and I want to visit this cave, we have a permission, but not has a
map.
Can you share one for us.
Moni
--
LCC. Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez
Asociacion Coahuilense de Espeleologia, A.C. (fundadora)
Assoziatione Italiana Geografiche Explorazioni La Venta (socia)
Grupo Espeleologico Vaxakmen, A.C. (socia)
Association for Mexican Cave Studies (colaboradora)
Texas Speleological Association (Socia)
Union Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleologicas (Socia)
045-844-1478311 cel.
monicaponce1 by skype.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Moni,
There is a very detailed map of Gruta del Palmito
(Bustamante) in AMCS Activities Newsletter no. 26 (2003). In
addition, there is an updated map of the entrance room showing
tourist trails in AMCS Activities Newsletter no. 33 (2010).
Mark Minton
At 11:32 AM 12/1/2011, Espeleo Coahuila wrote:
Hi cavers!
I hope you are well,
I want to know if you can share with me a map of Bustamante cave, my
friends and I want to visit this cave, we have a permission, but not has a map.
Can you share one for us.
Moni
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good video on very bright light
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OENA7Jl4gsQ&hd=1
--- End Message ---
