texascavers Digest 31 Jan 2012 16:32:12 -0000 Issue 1483
Topics (messages 19422 through 19426):
UT Grotto Meeting - Web Feb 1
19422 by: Gary Franklin
Re: new sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
19423 by: Logan McNatt
19424 by: caverarch
19425 by: Fritz Holt
19426 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
Administrivia:
To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
<[email protected]>
To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
<[email protected]>
To post to the list, e-mail:
<[email protected]>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy Caver,
You are invited to the UT Grotto Meeting in Room 2.48 Painter Hall - Wed
Feb 1, 2012 7:45 - 9:00 PM
Come out for Elections where you can contribute to something really cool
and help to make a difference. Every position is open where majority vote
can elevate you to officer status. As always, it is guaranteed fun and
fellowship with Austin Texas Cavers.
Bill Stone will present the Program for the evening as:
Recent Explorations in Hellhole Cave, West Virginia
Hellhole Cave and Schoolhouse Cave, located in Germany Valley, Pendleton
County, West Virginia are historic east coast U.S. vertical caves that have
lore dating back to the earliest days of the National Speleological
Society, to a time when vertical caving techniques consisted of body
rappeling and climbing out via cable ladder. They are described vividly in
early books on caving, notably in Halliday's "Depths of the Earth".
Schoolhouse was made into the substance of legend in Tom Culverwell's
famous carbon sketches (still available at Amazon ! ) which depict bold
explorers in Jules Vernian settings. Despite all the early attention both
caves remained relatively short, but highly technical. Hellhole had a 55m
spectacular freefall entrance drop and led to approximately 2 kilometers of
very large, bat-harboring tunnels. Perseverance Dome -- potentially in
excess of 120m high, has been discovered at the southern exploration limit.
Vickie Siegel and Bill Stone have participated in many camps in Hellhole
and have just returned from a 4 day Christmas climbing push to Perseverance
Dome. The talk will provide a general history of Hellhole exploration with
a focus on the climbing of the highestdomes in the system.
Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for
happy hour specials. This area is the best place to park and meet folks
walking over to the meeting. Then after the official meeting, we continue
with the decades long tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall
tales of caving at Posse East. www.posse-east.com
The UT Grotto needs you, YES YOU !!!, the caver with photos and a story to
share about your adventures, scientific research, or something else really
cool. Contact me.
Sincerely,
Gary Franklin UT Grotto Vice Chair & Program Organizer
512-585-6057
[email protected]rg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fritz,
Joe Datri posted a good photo of the sinkhole on the U.T. Grotto Facebook page. A lot of dirt and rubble in the bottom to be removed. Cavers
are working on getting permission to enter. I hope the city or whoever is in charge decides to leave it open, but I have no idea what will happen.
Regarding the culverts at Bastrop State Park, the staff is short-handed and dealing with layoffs and budget cutbacks as are most of the state
parks. Not to mention the drought and one of the worst fires in Texas history. Even if they had an army of volunteers to clean out all the
culverts after the fire, enough pine needles and other debris have fallen that the culverts would have clogged up again very quickly during the
deluge.
On 1/30/2012 12:13 PM, Fritz Holt wrote:
May this sinkhole be currently viewed? Will this water quality pond be repaired
or allowed to remain as a recharge circuit to the aquifer?
Whether it would have averted the problem or not, it seems the park authorities should have forseen this possibility and kept the culverts
clear of debris.
Fritz, with hindsight
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*Logan McNatt [mailto:[email protected]]
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:49 PM
*To:* Texas Cavers
*Subject:* [Texascavers] new sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
Thanks to Peter Sprouse and Zara Environmental for forwarding this information; original source unknown. The early morning storm of Jan 25th
dumped 5 to 7 inches of rain over much of Travis and Bastrop counties in 6 to 10 hours. I didn't see anything in the news about this sinkhole.
The huge water quality pond located at Mopac and William Cannon "Shops at Arbor Trails" (inc. Costco, Target, Chuy's etc) went from full to
empty during this morning's storm. Over the past year, it was speculated that the pond was leaking. Few storms had tested the pond over the
last few months, but this one clearly revealed the issue. The liner gave way (split) to reveal a large sinkhole which slurped down all the
water. Musta been one helluva whirlpool.
(not cave related) Bastrop State Park got hit real hard by the storm because the fire removed all the ground cover. The old Civilian
Conservation Corps culverts had gotten clogged during the long drought, so the water overflowed and took out large chunks of the park roads.
See the following link for photos.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Friends-of-the-Lost-Pines-State-Parks-Bastrop-and-Buescher-State-Parks/313894840447
<https://www.facebook.com/#%21/pages/Friends-of-the-Lost-Pines-State-Parks-Bastrop-and-Buescher-State-Parks/313894840447>
Logan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fritz, I imagine that the Bastrop State Park soils, laid bare of vegetation by
the fire and no longer held in place by living root systems, was easy to erode,
as well, in such a deluge.
But while Logan is right that no amount of volunteers could have averted this
particular disaster, I think he would also agree that our parks are all
deteriorating in a less dramatic but inevitable fashion due to gutting of the
state parks staffs and maintenance funds all across the state.
Roger Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: Logan McNatt <[email protected]>
To: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
Cc: Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 11:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
Fritz,
Joe Datri posted a good photo of the sinkhole on the U.T. Grotto
Facebook page. A lot of dirt and rubble in the bottom to be removed.
Cavers are working on getting permission to enter. I hope the city or
whoever is in charge decides to leave it open, but I have no idea what will
happen.
Regarding the culverts at Bastrop State Park, the staff is short-handed
and dealing with layoffs and budget cutbacks as are most of the state parks.
Not to mention the drought and one of the worst fires in Texas history.
Even if they had an army of volunteers to clean out all the culverts after
the fire, enough pine needles and other debris have fallen that the culverts
would have clogged up again very quickly during the deluge.
On 1/30/2012 12:13 PM, Fritz Holt wrote:
May this sinkhole be currently viewed? Will
this water quality pond be repaired or allowed
to remain as a recharge circuit to the aquifer?
Whether it would have averted the problem
or not, it seems the park authorities should
have forseen this possibility and kept the culverts
clear of debris.
Fritz, with hindsight
From: Logan McNatt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, January 28,
2012 4:49 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] new
sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
Thanks to Peter Sprouse and Zara Environmental for
forwarding this information; original source
unknown. The early morning storm of Jan 25th
dumped 5 to 7 inches of rain over much of Travis and
Bastrop counties in 6 to 10
hours. I didn't see anything in the news about this
sinkhole.
The hugewater quality pond located at Mopac and
William Cannon "Shops at
Arbor Trails" (inc. Costco, Target, Chuy's etc) went
from full to empty during this morning's storm. Over
the past year, it was speculated that
the pond was leaking. Few storms had tested
the pond over the last few months, but this one
clearly revealed the issue. The liner gave
way (split) to reveal a large sinkhole which
slurped down all the water. Musta been one
helluva whirlpool.
(not cave related) Bastrop State Park
got hit real hard by the storm because the
fire removed all the ground cover. The old
Civilian Conservation Corps culverts had
gotten clogged during the long drought, so the water
overflowed and took out large chunks of the park
roads. See the following link for photos.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Friends-of-the-Lost-Pines-State-Parks-Bastrop-and-Buescher-State-Parks/313894840447
Logan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My comment on the culverts was one of uninformed conclusion. Admittedly I
didn't consider the fire debris but I must wonder what condition the culverts
were in before the fires. Had they been asked, I would believe that many would
have volunteered to help or do such chores and maintenance in our beloved and
(once) beautiful state park(s). Thank goodness the treasured CCC built
structures were saved. Texas has many thousands of birders (and not all are
senior citizens) and nature enthusiasts who would enjoy working on behalf of
TP&W. I am in the process of buying acreage property five miles NE of Dripping
Springs which is about 25 minutes from my daughter's home on 2244. When I drive
to Austin it is heartbreaking to see the devastation to the forest and homes
just east of Bastrop. It confirms my belief that I never want to be without
property insurance. It was not my intent to imply neglect on the part of TP&W
employees. I hold them in high regard for doing an often thankless job.
Fritz
________________________________
From: caverarch [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:15 AM
To: [email protected]; Fritz Holt
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
Fritz, I imagine that the Bastrop State Park soils, laid bare of vegetation by
the fire and no longer held in place by living root systems, was easy to erode,
as well, in such a deluge.
But while Logan is right that no amount of volunteers could have averted this
particular disaster, I think he would also agree that our parks are all
deteriorating in a less dramatic but inevitable fashion due to gutting of the
state parks staffs and maintenance funds all across the state.
Roger Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: Logan McNatt <[email protected]>
To: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
Cc: Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 11:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
Fritz,
Joe Datri posted a good photo of the sinkhole on the U.T. Grotto Facebook page.
A lot of dirt and rubble in the bottom to be removed. Cavers are working on
getting permission to enter. I hope the city or whoever is in charge decides
to leave it open, but I have no idea what will happen.
Regarding the culverts at Bastrop State Park, the staff is short-handed and
dealing with layoffs and budget cutbacks as are most of the state parks. Not
to mention the drought and one of the worst fires in Texas history. Even if
they had an army of volunteers to clean out all the culverts after the fire,
enough pine needles and other debris have fallen that the culverts would have
clogged up again very quickly during the deluge.
On 1/30/2012 12:13 PM, Fritz Holt wrote:
May this sinkhole be currently viewed? Will this water quality pond be repaired
or allowed to remain as a recharge circuit to the aquifer?
Whether it would have averted the problem or not, it seems the park authorities
should have forseen this possibility and kept the culverts clear of debris.
Fritz, with hindsight
________________________________
From: Logan McNatt [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:49 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] new sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
Thanks to Peter Sprouse and Zara Environmental for forwarding this information;
original source unknown. The early morning storm of Jan 25th dumped 5 to 7
inches of rain over much of Travis and Bastrop counties in 6 to 10 hours. I
didn't see anything in the news about this sinkhole.
The huge water quality pond located at Mopac and William Cannon "Shops at Arbor
Trails" (inc. Costco, Target, Chuy's etc) went from full to empty during this
morning's storm. Over the past year, it was speculated that the pond was
leaking. Few storms had tested the pond over the last few months, but this one
clearly revealed the issue. The liner gave way (split) to reveal a large
sinkhole which slurped down all the water. Musta been one helluva whirlpool.
(not cave related) Bastrop State Park got hit real hard by the storm because
the fire removed all the ground cover. The old Civilian Conservation Corps
culverts had gotten clogged during the long drought, so the water overflowed
and took out large chunks of the park roads. See the following link for photos.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Friends-of-the-Lost-Pines-State-Parks-Bastrop-and-Buescher-State-Parks/313894840447<https://www.facebook.com/#%21/pages/Friends-of-the-Lost-Pines-State-Parks-Bastrop-and-Buescher-State-Parks/313894840447>
Logan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not volunteer, Fritz? There are several state parks within a short
distance of your new home. All of them could use some help. Or, if your knees
aren't up to it, get out your checkbook. Parks is only $4M short at this
point. Parks has been hit hard but my division (Wildlife) has also taken some
big hits lately. We took 20% staff cuts last year and now we aren't allowed to
spend any of the money that is supposedly sitting in the coffers. Things are
going to get much worse before they get better and we need any kind of help we
can get.
Andy
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
[email protected]
--- On Tue, 1/31/12, Fritz Holt <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] new sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
To: "'caverarch'" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012, 10:19 AM
My comment on the culverts was one of
uninformed conclusion. Admittedly I didn’t consider the fire debris but I
must wonder what condition the culverts were in before the fires. Had they been
asked, I would believe that many would have volunteered to help or do such
chores and maintenance in our beloved and (once) beautiful state park(s). Thank
goodness the treasured CCC built structures were saved.
Texas has many thousands of birders (and not
all are senior citizens) and nature enthusiasts who would enjoy working on
behalf of TP&W. I am in the process of buying acreage property five miles NE
of Dripping Springs which is about 25 minutes from my daughter’s home on
2244. When I drive to Austin it is heartbreaking
to see the devastation to the forest and homes just east of
Bastrop . It confirms my belief that I never
want to be without property insurance. It was not my intent to imply neglect on
the part of TP&W employees. I hold them in high regard for doing an often
thankless job.
Fritz
From: caverarch
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012
9:15 AM
To: [email protected] ;
Fritz Holt
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new
sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
Fritz, I imagine that the
Bastrop
State Park soils, laid bare of
vegetation by the fire and no longer held in place by living root
systems, was easy to erode, as well, in such a deluge.
But
while Logan is
right that no amount of volunteers could have averted this particular disaster,
I think he would also agree that our parks are all deteriorating in a less
dramatic but inevitable fashion due to gutting of the state parks staffs and
maintenance funds all across the state.
Roger Moore
-----Original
Message-----
From: Logan McNatt < [email protected] >
To: Fritz Holt
<[email protected]>
Cc: Texas Cavers
<[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 11:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new sinkhole drains pond in south
Austin
Fritz,
Joe Datri posted a good photo of the sinkhole on the U.T. Grotto Facebook
page. A lot of dirt and rubble in the bottom to be removed. Cavers
are working on getting permission to enter. I hope the city or whoever is
in charge decides to leave it open, but I have no idea what will happen.
Regarding the culverts at Bastrop
State Park , the staff is
short-handed and dealing with layoffs and budget cutbacks as are most of the
state parks. Not to mention the drought and one of the worst fires in
Texas history.
Even if they had an army of volunteers to clean out all the culverts after the
fire, enough pine needles and other debris have fallen that the culverts would
have clogged up again very quickly during the deluge.
On 1/30/2012 12:13 PM, Fritz Holt
wrote:
May this sinkhole be currently viewed?
Will this water quality pond be repaired or allowed to remain as a recharge
circuit to the aquifer?
Whether it would have averted the problem
or not, it seems the park authorities should have forseen this possibility and
kept the culverts clear of debris.
Fritz, with hindsight
From: Logan McNatt
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012
4:49 PM
To: Texas
Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] new
sinkhole drains pond in south Austin
Thanks to Peter
Sprouse and Zara Environmental for forwarding this information; original source
unknown. The early morning storm of Jan 25th dumped 5 to 7 inches of rain
over much of Travis and Bastrop
counties in 6 to 10 hours. I didn't see anything in the news about this
sinkhole.
The huge water quality pond located
at Mopac and William Cannon "Shops at Arbor Trails" (inc.
Costco, Target, Chuy's etc) went from full to empty during this morning's
storm. Over the past year, it was speculated that the pond was
leaking. Few storms had tested the pond over the last few months,
but this one clearly revealed the issue. The liner gave way
(split) to reveal a large sinkhole which slurped down all the water.
Musta been one helluva whirlpool.
(not cave related) Bastrop
State Park got hit real
hard by the storm because the fire removed all the ground cover. The old
Civilian Conservation Corps culverts had gotten clogged during the long
drought, so the water overflowed and took out large chunks of the park
roads. See the following link for photos.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Friends-of-the-Lost-Pines-State-Parks-Bastrop-and-Buescher-State-Parks/313894840447
Logan
--- End Message ---
