texascavers Digest 10 Sep 2011 04:52:26 -0000 Issue 1388 Topics (messages 18540 through 18554):
Re: Obama Bans Bullion-10oz. Gold Transactions Are Fed Regulated
18540 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
18549 by: Matt Turner
Black helicopters
18541 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
18543 by: Fritz Holt
Re: Black helicopters & SILVER
18542 by: Pete Lindsley
Regard not your stuff..
18544 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
OT fire images
18545 by: Aimee Beveridge
a cave diving fatality/rescue
18546 by: David
cave with tarantulas
18547 by: David
18548 by: Matt Turner
Re: Dust, Smoke, and Fire Precautions at TCR 2011
18550 by: Rod Goke
Canceling Mexico Vehicle Import Permit
18551 by: Ed Goff
18552 by: David
18553 by: Don Arburn
18554 by: Rod Goke
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--- Begin Message --- Plutocratic paranoia!
Sep 8, 2011 01:01:52 PM, [email protected] wrote:
WTF has 10oz of gold under their bed? And even if you did, what stops you selling it in multiple 9.99oz quantities?
You should be ashamed of posting such nonsense on CaveTex, Fritz.
--Stefan
From: Fritz Holt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 12:18 PM
To: Off-Topic Texas Cavers; [email protected]; 'Frank McAvoy'
Subject: [Texascavers] FW: Obama Bans Bullion-10oz. Gold Transactions Are Fed Regulated
I thought this was relevant as I know there are many wealthy cavers who have been hoarding gold and whom this might impact.
Fritz (Not included in the above).
From: Mark Whisenhunt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 9:21 AM
To: Mark Whisenhunt
Subject: Obama Bans Bullion-10oz. Gold Transactions Are Fed Regulated
-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
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--- Begin Message ---Ok I see why this should be on off-Topic, but why is this here? This is what facebook is made for. This isn't OBAMA doing this and those that know me know I'm not a fan. This is our congress doing something. Also, if you're freaked out about this who cares. I mean I if I had 10oz gold bullion under my bed and sold it to you there is no way the government could find that out. So, this is a non-issue that shouldn't be on Cave-Tex. This is why there is the off-topic list. Matt Turner "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that."- Norman Vincent Peale ________________________________ From: Fritz Holt <[email protected]> To: Off-Topic Texas Cavers <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; 'Frank McAvoy' <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 12:18 PM Subject: [Texascavers] FW: Obama Bans Bullion-10oz. Gold Transactions Are Fed Regulated I thought this was relevant as I know there are many wealthy cavers who have been hoarding gold and whom this might impact. Fritz (Not included in the above). ________________________________ From:Mark Whisenhunt [mailto: [email protected] ] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 9:21 AM To: Mark Whisenhunt Subject: Obama Bans Bullion-10oz. Gold Transactions Are Fed Regulated Fellow Conservatives, You're probably already aware that Obama Law makers B anne d Over The Counter Physical Bullion for All U.S. Residents. The Ban of OTC Physical Bullion is part of the Dodd-Frank Act and went into effect on July 16, 2011. Total Government Control of Bullion Phase One:(complete) Phase Two:(in process) Final Phase: _________ Fellow Conservatives, You're probably already aware that Obama Law makers B anne d Over The Counter Physical Bullion for All U.S. Residents. The Ban of OTC Physical Bullion is part of the Dodd-Frank Act and went into effect on July 16, 2011. The BREAKING NEWS is that the Feds, Are Now Seeking Jurisdiction over 10 ounce gold Transactions. The Commodity Futures Trading Commission(CFTC) Just approved A contract in the Transactions Size of 10 Gold Ounces AND the Amendment of Rule 855, Pursuant to Section 5c(c) of the Commodity Exchange Act. The Anticipated Effective date is September 12, 2011 Discover How this New Law Empowers Federal Agencies and What Restrictions may be Imposed on Gold Bullion. Plus, Discover Their Ultimate Plot. Click Here: Educate yourself BEFORE New Restrictions ________________________________ Goldworth Financial, - 21800 Oxnard St. Suite 1120 , Woodland Hills , CA 91367 As an investment or hobby it is important to note that Precious metals & rare coins can increase or decrease in value. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. Per any legal disclosure, it is recommended that you review Goldworth's legal policy & risk disclosure. Goldworth also recommends you review our privacy policy; we guarantee never to sell, trade or rent any of the information you submit to any third party. Your privacy is important to us. You may request more information by calling 1.800.257.4653 or visit www.goldworth.com Copyright © GoldworthFinancial 2001 - 2011 | Privacy Policy __________________________SUBSCRIPTION INFO__________________________ This email is never sent unsolicited. It is only sent to people on the Townhall.com network OR a friend might have forwarded it to you. We respect and value your time and privacy. You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this Townhall Spotlight by clicking here. OR Send postal mail to: Townhall Spotlight Unsubscribe 1901 N. Moore St - Suite 701, Arlington, VA 22209 WERE YOU FORWARDED THIS EDITION OF THE TOWNHALL SPOTLIGHT? You can get your own free subscription by clicking here. ________________________________ * Copyright Townhall and its Content Providers. All rights reserved. ________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---Fritz: Thanks for this timely information. I was just about to go gas some Jews to get the gold fillings from their teeth to melt down into bullion, but now I won't since that Muslim traitor Obama says it is now illegal. This is all part of a plot by the Trilateral Commission to take away our freedom! How do I know? Why because I can see the invisible black helicopters circling over the secret meeting inside Carlsbad caverns. Everyone knows that there are secret tunnels connecting Carlsbad to Area 51, and that after the takeover is complete the Overlords from Planet X will use the tunnels to imprison patriotic Christians for medical experiments to render them gay. As for myself I'm gonna exhume my gold hoard, wrap it in a copy of the constituition, add some garlic cloves, then rebury it with a booby trap next to the church where I keep my arsenal of assault rifles. That should show those no good commies a thing or two! Now I am liberal to a degree, but if you think I'm gonna let Rick Perry move in next door and marry my daughter then you must think I'm crazy! Sleaze
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--- Begin Message ---Sleaze, It's good to know that you are a fellow conservative at heart with such lofty principals. When can we get together with other patriots to plan an assault on the miscreants hiding in Carlsbad Caverns? Do you really think Rick Perry is in on these dastardly plans? He should be impeached immediately or better yet strung up from the Treaty Oak, assuming part of it is still standing. Your co-hart in saving our imperiled nation. Let's hurry while I am still ambulatory. Only one foot is in the grave. Fritz PS This is your best oratory yet. ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 3:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Texascavers] Black helicopters Fritz: Thanks for this timely information. I was just about to go gas some Jews to get the gold fillings from their teeth to melt down into bullion, but now I won't since that Muslim traitor Obama says it is now illegal. This is all part of a plot by the Trilateral Commission to take away our freedom! How do I know? Why because I can see the invisible black helicopters circling over the secret meeting inside Carlsbad caverns. Everyone knows that there are secret tunnels connecting Carlsbad to Area 51, and that after the takeover is complete the Overlords from Planet X will use the tunnels to imprison patriotic Christians for medical experiments to render them gay. As for myself I'm gonna exhume my gold hoard, wrap it in a copy of the constituition, add some garlic cloves, then rebury it with a booby trap next to the church where I keep my arsenal of assault rifles. That should show those no good commies a thing or two! Now I am liberal to a degree, but if you think I'm gonna let Rick Perry move in next door and marry my daughter then you must think I'm crazy! Sleaze
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--- Begin Message --- Are you sure the hoard was not SILVER? Back when we started working in Powell's Cave next to the Silver Mines we heard all these stories of underground tunnels traversed by small donkeys (no political puns intended) carrying all the loot. Some of our first survey stations back in '62 or so were aluminum "punch-outs" from an unnamed sheet metal shop and we stamped the station numbers into the soft aluminum. (This was before mylar and plastic flagging was invented.) Well, on a following expedition ('64?) not far from the cave entrance we almost stumbled into a 2 x 5 x 5 foot hand-dug pit. The location was exactly where we were missing one of our permanent aluminum markers. Looked to me like some dude found the hidden hoard and took it to Area 51, through that state that shall not be named where they have "no caves to speak of"...- Pete On Sep 8, 2011, at 2:34 PM, [email protected] wrote: Fritz: Thanks for this timely information. ... Sleaze
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--- Begin Message --- For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
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--- Begin Message ---Satellite imagery of the Bastrop complex fire Before: http://1.usa.gov/nweGWs After: http://1.usa.gov/q2cPYl On Sep 8, 2011, at 4:05 PM, [email protected] wrote: > For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose > his own soul? > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit > our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: > [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---According to a site on the web, there is an ongoing body recovery at a cave in Ireland. ( See the map below ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Galway The diver seems to have a lot of cave diving videos on YouTube: Here is a video he made last week in a cave. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bws8RC6LngQ Here are 2 more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71c9RgRFrNs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO6s_5e0FMo The article alleges that his body was found 1 kilometer into the cave David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---Here is a recent video showing a cave with tarantulas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9PGhTiGArI Apparently it aired recently, and uploaded less than a month ago. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Backshall http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/v70/cave-70-02-73.pdf David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---You could call this video. HOW NOT TO CAVE. Barefoot, no pads or helmet and messing with the wildlife. Matt Turner "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that."- Norman Vincent Peale ________________________________ From: David <[email protected]> To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 1:44 AM Subject: [Texascavers] cave with tarantulas Here is a recent video showing a cave with tarantulas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9PGhTiGArI Apparently it aired recently, and uploaded less than a month ago. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Backshall http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/v70/cave-70-02-73.pdf David Locklear --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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If exceptional drouth conditions continue, we certainly will have reason to be extra cautious about fire hazards and air pollution at TCR this year. I haven't been to Flat Creek Ranch as recently as Gill, but I have been there a number of times in the past, including both times when it was dry and dusty and times when it was wet and muddy. I generally agree with Gill's suggestions regarding dust and fire precautions and would like to add a few comments encouraging people to think about their actions and about how they can avoid unintended consequences that could harm or endanger other people.
ATVs and Other Vehicles:
Flat Creek Ranch has many dirt roads and/or established vehicle paths in the TCR area where some vehicle traffic will be necessary to access campgrounds and other facilities. Most people should be able to walk between their camp sites and event locations, but the area is large enough that some people might want or need to use wheeled vehicles. Mountain bicycles are a reasonable option for people with typical athletic ability, but there are a few steep places where you might have to use low gear or even walk a bike uphill. I can also see how ATVs or other small motorized vehicles could be useful. In fact, a Gator style vehicle is practically a necessity for the event organizers to haul heavy equipment to and from certain areas, such as hauling PA equipment to and from the stage area below the cliff. The main problem with personal ATVs is not so much the vehicles themselves as it is the way that some people use them when riding recreationally. An ATV with an effective muffler should not be any worse than a car or truck driving on the same dirt road at the same speed. In fact, the ATV probably would kick up less dust, since it's smaller. The main thing to keep in mind when driving any vehicle at TCR is to minimize noise, dust, environmental damage, and fire danger. This generally means that we should stick to established vehicle paths or roads, when possible, instead of driving over vegetation and that we should drive slowly and avoid unnecessary driving in areas where the noise or dust would adversely affect other people.
Fires and Smoking:
Because of exceptional fire danger this year, people have been cautioned not to build fires (campfires, charcoal or wood cooking fires, etc.) at TCR, unless conditions change drastically between now and then. Another significant fire hazard, which thus far has been largely neglected in TCR 2011 discussions, is smoking. Notice that the City of Austin currently has a temporary ban on both fire building and smoking in its City parks and greenbelts, because of fire hazard conditions:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/parks/park_news.cfm?nwsid=3411
I expect that Flat Creek Ranch is at least as dry as Austin's parks at this point, so similar caution would be advisable there.
I recently returned from a trip to Tennessee, during which I drove I-35 between Austin and Dallas and I-30 between Dallas and Texarkana. I've driven this route numerous times in recent years, and never before have I seen so many burned areas beside the highway. Most of these burned areas appeared to have been small grass fires that started next to the pavement and burned outward until extinguished. This is exactly the pattern one would expect from grass fires started by smoking materials carelessly discarded from the windows of passing vehicles, a reckless behavior I've witnessed many times, especially during night drives, when the sparks are conspicuous. A carelessly dropped or discarded cigarette could just as easily start a fire at Flat Creek Ranch under the current conditions. We can ask all the smokers at TCR to be extra careful this year, but realistically, how careful can we count on all of them to be, especially after they've had a few (or a few too many) beers? Better advice would be to leave the smoking materials behind and simply not smoke at TCR 2011.
Even under normal weather conditions, careless or inconsiderate smoking behavior at TCR and similar caving events often creates another significant problem, namely the air pollution of secondhand smoke. Last year, people complained about how unpleasant it was to be downwind from passing vehicles on a dusty road, since this was a source of irritating air pollution not normally encountered at TCR. Strong dust exposure can irritate the eyes, nose, sinuses, throat, lungs, etc. and can produce flu-like symptoms that persist significantly beyond the period of exposure. For many nonsmokers, secondhand tobacco smoke has similar effects, and even in low concentrations, it just plain stinks. When smoke is combined with dust, it compounds the problems, making breathing even more difficult and unpleasant than it would be with either dust or smoke alone.
An outdoor environment doesn't eliminate a secondhand smoke problem any more than it eliminates a dust problem. Breathing downwind from one or more nearby smokers can result in strong exposure, similar to being in an indoor smoking area. The only real advantage of being outdoors in this respect is that it sometimes gives people a better an opportunity to move around and stay either upwind or out of range of anyone smoking. When people are seated, eating dinner, or otherwise situated where they can't easily move, however, it only takes one thoughtless or inconsiderate smoker to create a miserable situation by smoking upwind from people who can't easily escape. For example, during the banquet at the 2011 NSS Convention, most of us were seated around large tables under an enormous open-sided tent-like shelter, which was designated as a nonsmoking area. One thoughtless smoker lit up a foul smelling cigar and sat just a few feet outside the shelter, where he assumed it would be okay to smoke, without considering the fact that all of his smoke was drifting directly into the nonsmoking area. Before long, multiple people at my table and at least two large neighboring tables were commenting to each other about how bad it smelled, until I finally went over and talked with the smoker, after which he put out the cigar. This is only one of many examples of "outdoor" secondhand smoke problems I've encountered at caving related events (such as following almost every UT Grotto meeting, when cavers here go to the extremely smoke polluted Posse East for a traditional "meeting after the meeting").
Many nonsmokers dislike secondhand tobacco smoke and are sickened by it to some degree. I'm more sensitive to it than most people, but I've known some cavers who are even more vulnerable to it than I am and who can have dangerous asthma attacks triggered by smoke. Tobacco smoke is not exactly healthy for anybody. After all, smoking killed my mother's sister, it killed my father's brother, and before I was even born, it killed my mother's father at a young age, causing hardship for his entire family. Secondhand smoke exposure during the early years of my childhood caused a lot of illness and misery for me during that period and probably contributed to certain chronic respiratory problems and to the strong tobacco smoke sensitivity I've had ever since. When smokers want to poison themselves in this manner, then, personally, I respect their right (although not their judgement) to do so. It's quite a different matter, however, when they pollute the air that other people need to breathe or when they handle smoking materials in a way that poses a fire danger to others.
If any of you feel that you can't resist smoking at TCR this year, then please be especially careful not to start a wildfire and don't smoke after drinking enough to impair your ability to be careful. Also, regardless of the weather or fire hazard conditions, please pay attention to where your smoke is going and try not to smoke upwind from anyone who doesn't want to breathe it, especially when people downwind from you are in situations where they cannot easily escape. This year, as in several past events where the Terminal Syphons performed, I'm scheduled to operate the sound system, so please be especially careful not to smoke upwind from where I'm operating the mixer board. Otherwise, I might have to leave the thing unattended in order to breathe, and I doubt that either the band or the audience would be pleased with the results. In case you are wondering, yes, I have had a few problems of this type while operating sound equipment at certain past caving events.
We've had some excellent TCRs at Flat Creek Ranch before, and with reasonable caution, I'm confident that we can make this year's TCR another success. I look forward to seeing you all there.
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: Fritz Holt
Sent: Sep 7, 2011 4:18 PM
To: 'Gill Edigar' , Diana Tomchick , 'Mandy Holt' , 'Jenny Holt'
Cc: Cave Tex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR 2011!
Gill,
I'm convinced, you smooth talker you. My ATV (but hopefully not me) stays at home. I'll have my hiking boots and walking stick but please don't call it a cane. TCR is always a blast and I don't see how it could be any dustier than last years gathering. I guess there will be more cold meals at campsites this year. That's OK as I like cereal. If Dave's Cave Saloon is operating this year I will have to make a donation as I am sure it will be heavily frequented.
Fritz
________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 4:03 PM
To: Diana Tomchick
Cc: Fritz Holt; Cave Tex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCR 2011!
My gut feeling, having many years of experience at Flat Creek Ranch and having physically walked the grounds last week, is that this is a most exceptional year. The drouth has dealt us a double blow that we normally don't have to be concerned with--low water and dry and dead plant material (= fuel for wild fires). And unless we have significant rains before TCR we must do as much as possible to prevent sparks and dust and should be prepared to fight any fires that may arise. We will be camped next to tender dry juniper which burns like gasoline when ignited and spreads like wildfire--literally. As a first response measure I've suggested that everyone include a dry chemical fire extinguisher (or 2) when packing their caving vehicle for TCR.
I'm going to suggest that this year people leave ATVs and such at home. Not only would they be unusually dusty and noisy this year but they can tear up what little vegetation may be trying to survive and are more likely to create sparks and, perhaps, flames. The few people who use them for getting around due to disabilities should operate them slowly and considerately. Bicycles should not be a problem but it would be good to remember that flint rocks litter the ranch and flint rocks make sparks. Be aware of what is happening behind you. Or, better yet, stick to the paved roads as much as possible.
Be aware that the creek water behind the dam is low and warm. Warm water can be home to certain organism that could be
harmful to even normally healthy cavers. Diana, perhaps you can expound on this a bit. The hot tub will be treated but the pond will not be.
I've been in consultation with the Ranch Manager and the TCR operatives and have made the above suggestions. I'm convinced that we can have a lot of fun and a good TCR despite some differences this year. Don't stay home just because it won't be exactly the same as you remember. There'll still be plenty to enjoy--people and activities. Stay tuned for further announcements from the organizers as we get closer. Maybe it'll rain and the TCR will get back to normal--or abnormal, however you see it. Rain dances at Grotto meetings and where ever cavers gather would be appreciated.
--Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---I've driven into Mexico quite a few times and learned much about the processes involved--and what can go wrong--but I've never stumbled onto the answer to one question. Before I embark on as grail-like a quest as trying to contact the Mexican consulate in Dallas (no one answers, and the voicemail is always full and can't accept any more messages), I thought I'd try here, where the impressive expertise on all things right-wing-paranoiac fills me with confidence that I'll obtain a factual answer: Is it possible to cancel permisos de importación temporal de vehículos anywhere north of the border? And if so, where and how? Ed
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--- Begin Message ---Try this: 1210 River Bend, Dallas, 75247 Ask to speak with C. Cruz Lizbeth or Sauceda Inzunza 214-932-0668 or 214-630-6151 Not sure what this place is. My best guess is some kind of affiliate of the bank, Banjercito. Another suggestion, would be to find a car in a junk yard that is identical to yours. Take photographs of both vehicles. Make sure to put your plates on the junk-yard vehicle. Make sure you are in the photo with a cast on your arm or leg, and have some crutches. Then next time you are at the border, show the "aduana" the photos, along with a notarized statement that the car is totaled. Make sure you slip him discretely a folded 20 dollar bill, when handing him the photos. David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---Don't even try it. Don's iPhone. On Sep 9, 2011, at 9:14 PM, David <[email protected]> wrote: > Another suggestion, would be to find a car in a junk yard
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--- Begin Message ---"Another suggestion, would be to find a car in a junk yard ..." And, how well has that technique worked for you, David? Is there an interesting story behind this suggestion? ;-) Rod -----Original Message----- >From: David <[email protected]> >Sent: Sep 9, 2011 9:14 PM >To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Canceling Mexico Vehicle Import Permit > >Try this: > >1210 River Bend, Dallas, 75247 > >Ask to speak with > >C. Cruz Lizbeth or Sauceda Inzunza > >214-932-0668 or 214-630-6151 > >Not sure what this place is. My best guess is some kind of >affiliate of the bank, Banjercito. > > >Another suggestion, would be to find a car in a junk yard that is >identical to yours. Take photographs >of both vehicles. Make sure to put your plates on the junk-yard >vehicle. Make sure you are in the photo >with a cast on your arm or leg, and have some crutches. Then >next time you are at >the border, show the "aduana" the photos, along with a notarized >statement that the car is totaled. Make >sure you slip him discretely a folded 20 dollar bill, when handing him >the photos. > >David Locklear > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >
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