texascavers Digest 18 Jun 2013 19:17:47 -0000 Issue 1778
Topics (messages 21967 through 21970):
Re: Remembering Palmito
21967 by: Logan McNatt
21968 by: Nico Escamilla
Re: Remembering
21969 by: Louise Power
Re: a tale from the old days of Texas cavers
21970 by: Ted Samsel
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--- Begin Message ---
Very true retrospective, Carl. Thanks.
On 6/18/2013 12:05 PM, Carl Kunath wrote:
Mimi:
Palmito has made a lasting impression on many of us. Your story reminds me that it is now just a few days past 50 years ago that I went to
Bustamante and Gruta del Palmito for the first time with Bill Gray and others of the original Alamo Grotto. I remember it well. I was stunned!
In a way, Palmito (now Grutas de Bustamante) is a time capsule of Texas caver's experience in Mexico. In half a century, the situation has
changed drastically. In the early days, cavers rode the train to Bustamante because the dirt road was too difficult for the few passenger
cars in the caver community. Bustamante was a very sleepy little village with no traffic lights and very few amenities. There were no
formalities required to visit the cave. Many visitors who planned more than a day visit recruited local burro-wranglers to get their heavy
and bulky equipment up the steep trail to the cave.
In short, those early visits were something of an exotic experience. For many, it was their first exposure to Mexico other than border towns
and almost always their first experience in a cave of such mind-blowing proportions. You had free-run of the cave.
In time, visits became more routine and the cave became a traditional "break in the newbies" trip for several grottos. Later, Texas cavers
spearheaded efforts to clean the cave of decades of trash and graffiti. Cavers were continuously promoting the recreational and economic
aspects of the cave to the Mexican people but things moved very slowly. Through the years, the efforts of the /Amigos de la Gruta /program
made a huge difference in the appearance of the cave. Slowly but surely, support came from the people of Bustamante, the State of Nuevo Leon,
and the Federal government of Mexico.
Now, half a century after some of those early trips, it is a classic case of "shooting yourself in the foot." We promoted and popularized the
cave so well we finally lost access to it. Grutas de Bustamante is not a wild cave anymore. You reach Bustamante on a nice paved road and
perhaps have a cold drink at the Plaza. Then you buy a ticket and drive to the base of the mountain on another paved road. From there, you
are transported up the mountain on a winding road to the new tunnel entrance. Now, you follow the guide for a tour of the entrance room.
Leave your hard hat at home.
We helped restore, preserve, and protect the cave that we loved but in the
process we lost the opportunity for an amazing caving experience.
The caving literature is full of stories and photos about this great cave but you can most conveniently learn more about Grutas de Bustamante
on pages 435-440 in /50 Years of Texas Caving/.
===Carl Kunath
*From:* Mimi Jasek <mailto:mjca...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 11:14 PM
*To:* Louise Power <mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com>
*Cc:* texas cavers <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>
*Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Remembering
I'm one of those girls who has all kinds of special dates on my calendar, but that day probably tops them all. That trip changed my life, it's
direction, and gave me my best friend for life. Took me into a world I did not know existed, asked of and gave more to me than anything I
could have imagined, brought me in touch with a lot of amazing people, and the trip has yet to end!
How can one not celebrate that?
Mimi
> From: mjca...@gmail.com <mailto:mjca...@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:32:46 -0500
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>
> Subject: [Texascavers] Remembering
>
> 40 years ago right about now sitting in the border crossing building on my first trip to Mexico, first cave trip, first camping trip.
Destination - Gruta del Palmito. Met my own future cave man on that trip, and have never stopped wanting to go underground. Don't think
anyone ever wrote up that trip, either.
>
> Time flies when you're having fun:)
>
> Mimi Jasek
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is still off trail access in Palmito, not all hope is lost. You just
have to ask the guy in charge about it and be back in time before they
close at 5pm
Nico
El martes, 18 de junio de 2013, Logan McNatt escribió:
> Very true retrospective, Carl. Thanks.
>
> On 6/18/2013 12:05 PM, Carl Kunath wrote:
>
> Mimi:
>
> Palmito has made a lasting impression on many of us. Your story reminds
> me that it is now just a few days past 50 years ago that I went to
> Bustamante and Gruta del Palmito for the first time with Bill Gray and
> others of the original Alamo Grotto. I remember it well. I was stunned!
>
> In a way, Palmito (now Grutas de Bustamante) is a time capsule of Texas
> caver’s experience in Mexico. In half a century, the situation has changed
> drastically. In the early days, cavers rode the train to Bustamante
> because the dirt road was too difficult for the few passenger cars in the
> caver community. Bustamante was a very sleepy little village with no
> traffic lights and very few amenities. There were no formalities required
> to visit the cave. Many visitors who planned more than a day visit
> recruited local burro-wranglers to get their heavy and bulky equipment up
> the steep trail to the cave.
>
> In short, those early visits were something of an exotic experience. For
> many, it was their first exposure to Mexico other than border towns and
> almost always their first experience in a cave of such mind-blowing
> proportions. You had free-run of the cave.
>
> In time, visits became more routine and the cave became a traditional
> “break in the newbies” trip for several grottos. Later, Texas cavers
> spearheaded efforts to clean the cave of decades of trash and graffiti.
> Cavers were continuously promoting the recreational and economic aspects of
> the cave to the Mexican people but things moved very slowly. Through the
> years, the efforts of the *Amigos de la Gruta *program made a huge
> difference in the appearance of the cave. Slowly but surely, support came
> from the people of Bustamante, the State of Nuevo Leon, and the Federal
> government of Mexico.
>
> Now, half a century after some of those early trips, it is a classic case
> of “shooting yourself in the foot.” We promoted and popularized the cave
> so well we finally lost access to it. Grutas de Bustamante is not a wild
> cave anymore. You reach Bustamante on a nice paved road and perhaps have a
> cold drink at the Plaza. Then you buy a ticket and drive to the base of
> the mountain on another paved road. From there, you are transported up the
> mountain on a winding road to the new tunnel entrance. Now, you follow the
> guide for a tour of the entrance room. Leave your hard hat at home.
>
> We helped restore, preserve, and protect the cave that we loved but in the
> process we lost the opportunity for an amazing caving experience.
>
> The caving literature is full of stories and photos about this great cave
> but you can most conveniently learn more about Grutas de Bustamante on
> pages 435-440 in *50 Years of Texas Caving*.
>
> ===Carl Kunath
>
> *From:* Mimi Jasek
> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 11:14 PM
> *To:* Louise Power
> *Cc:* texas cavers
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Remembering
>
>
>
> I'm one of thos
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mimi,
I remember one of my first trips down there. I think Orion was the trip leader,
but I'm not sure who else was there. We had just started down from the entrance
on the breakdown slope when way off in the distance we kept hearing somebody
calling "Luz," "Luz". So we all shown our lights downhill toward the cries and
saw 3 or 4 of the local guys crawling around down below with no light trying to
figure their way out. I can't remember how long they said they'd been in the
dark, but it had been quite awhile (or maybe it just seemed that way). We
loaned them a couple of our extra flashlights and they trotted off toward the
entrance.
Good practical reinforcement of one of the first rules of caving for me for me
on one of my first "big cave" trips--never go without 3 independent sources of
light.
Of course, mine didn't have the lasting exitement yours did.
Louise
> From: mjca...@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:32:46 -0500
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: [Texascavers] Remembering
>
> 40 years ago right about now sitting in the border crossing building on my
> first trip to Mexico, first cave trip, first camping trip. Destination -
> Gruta del Palmito. Met my own future cave man on that trip, and have never
> stopped wanting to go underground. Don't think anyone ever wrote up that
> trip, either.
>
> Time flies when you're having fun:)
>
> Mimi Jasek
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a side view. I have the story somewhere and shall find it.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Ted Samsel <t.b.sam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was there too, with my chicken suit that I was commissioned to
> fabricate by Guich, via Igor Loving. I'll tell the story after other
> folks recall it. Here's a photo of yon suit. There's another one.
> Somewhere.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Mixon Bill <bmixon...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> Posted by permission of the author by Mixon:
>>
>> A long time ago in Fredericksburg, Texas, they held the Luckenbach World’s
>> Fair, the brainchild of Hondo Crouch and Guich Koock, who bought the little
>> town in the Texas Hill Country. They made it a favorite hangout for Waylon
>> and Willie and the boys, and lots of lawng-hurred country folks from Austin
>> and other parts. Later they sold the whole thang again. Why was the fair
>> held in Fredericksburg? Well, Luckenbach was charmin’ to visit, but not big
>> enough to hold a couple of thousand beer drunks all at once, and
>> Fredericksburg had a stadium for rent
>>
>> I thank it wuz June 1975. I went thur from Lubbock on the weekend out of
>> boredom, just to git away from my grad stoodent studies at Texas Tech. I
>> mean, how many millipede gonopods can you measure while staring through a
>> microscope? I was goin’ cross-eyed, and my wife wasn’t much interested in
>> going, so I went. Had I a friend who hadda been interested I woulda taken
>> him along. That reminds me of this example of Texanese that my Dad used to
>> quote, “Well, if I’d a knowd you’d a goed, I’d a let you a’rode, leastwise
>> I’d seen you had a way to went.” That was how I felt about it too.
>>
>> So, I drove my old Chevy 4x4 down there and when I arrived I immediately
>> bumped into cavers from Austin—Charlie Loving, Gil Ediger, Don Broussard,
>> and lots of others. We wandered around, drank beer, and sampled the food at
>> the booths on the grounds. Eventually I moseyed up into the bleachers, which
>> wuz shady.
>>
>> They wuz hostin’ various events, and pretty soon they announced a Laughing
>> Contest. A no-holds-barred-make-it-up-as-you-go Laughing Contest, with some
>> vague trophy being offered. By this time I was half full of beer and feelin’
>> pretty jovial, so I joined up. I went down front to the stage, where they
>> had notables like Slim Pickens, Hondo, Guich, and Frank X. Tolbert as
>> judges. Also Sarah somebody, a famous Texas politician whose last name I
>> can’t recall, but she was good-lookin’.
>>
>> I asked about rules, and they didn’t have any. So, the first man gets up to
>> the mike and he tells some cornball joke and slaps his thigh and laughs. The
>> crowd sort of laughs, and we’re off to a start. Then the second man takes
>> the mike and tells some long windy joke and they sort of laugh, but not too
>> much. I’m thinkin’, “Man, this is pretty lame. I can do better than this.” I
>> think I was third, or maybe fifth—I didn’t really care at this point. So, I
>> decided to do something unusual. There I was already sort of lookin’ weird.
>> I had lawng hurr stickin’ out all around from my dark blue denim engineer’s
>> cap, a big mustash, jeans, cowboy boots, and a t-shirt that said, “Lucky Me!
>> I live in Lubbock!” with a cartoon of a dood clingin’ to a road sign while a
>> tornado has him blowed out sideways with his pants comin’ off.
>>
>> I stepped up to the mike, which was on a stand and connected to a big sound
>> system. I said real low, “lucky me…I live in Lubbock.” Then I started to
>> laugh in a real low register, then I went up the scale gradually in a
>> sustained crescendo, culminating in a foghorn, hootin’, exhalin’, inhalin’
>> drug-crazed ape virtuoso hollerin’ extravaganza, while I staggered about the
>> stage draggin’ the mike stand with me. It was almost scary. I didn’t know
>> where it came from. I didn’t know I had it in me. Gawd, the crowd went wild!
>>
>> OK, so maybe one or two more performed, but they were a mere shadow to my
>> virtuoso hootin’ performance. The judges huddled together, then they said
>> the crowd wanted me to do it again. So, I did it all again, but even longer
>> and better this time. I thank the laugh I did reached mebbe 100 decibels,
>> and that’s just at the mike. In the bleachers all them beer drunks musta
>> heard it louder, and they all went apeshit at my apeshit laugh. They cheered
>> and stomped and jumped up and down, and I was awarded the grand prize. It
>> was a trophy made by Charlie Loving out of a copper toilet float, glued to a
>> little basket with sticks and strings and mounted on a 2x4 to look like a
>> hot-air balloon. And on top it had a plastic Indian chief holdin’ a
>> tomahawk, but his other arm was bad, missin’ a hand. It was colorful, just
>> like I felt and everyone felt that day.
>>
>> Later on Charlie came lookin’ for me, said that CBS News wanted to talk to
>> me. I never did see them. I camped out with my caver friends that night, and
>> next day I drove fast back to Lubbock, which we called Buttock, the Hub, the
>> new metro city of the south plains.
>>
>> I have a Kodachrome slide of this event, showing Slim Pickens awarding me my
>> trophy. That’s for all you naysayers out there!
>>
>> I had such fond memories of this event that I put it in my resumé, or CV.
>> There it remains today. The only trouble I ever had over that was when I was
>> testifying as an expert witness in a lawsuit in Austin. I was recounting in
>> court some technical work I did while employed at the Texas Department of
>> Health, sort of on behalf of the plaintiff, who was injured working in the
>> gas sterilizer area of a hospital. I used to troubleshoot gas sterilizers
>> and anesthesia equipment for the health department using a special gas
>> detector, a large infrared spectrometer. The defendant’s lawyer,
>> representing a big manufacturer of hospital equipment, thought he had found
>> a way to discredit me as an expert witness. He said, “Well, MISTER Elliott,”
>> (ignoring my Ph.D. and my accomplishments), “I see here that you were the
>> World Champion Laugher at the 1975 Luckenbach World’s Fair! Would you like
>> to tell us about that?!” I just looked at the jury, and said, “Yes, Slim
>> Pickens awarded me that trophy. I am very proud of that!” I grinned, and the
>> jury all laughed—they loved it! And the big company lost the lawsuit, I
>> think based more on my technical work than my laughing contest story. But
>> who knows?
>> William R. “Bill” Elliott
>> Jefferson City, Missouri
>> 13 June 2013
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Always forgive your enemies. Nothing annoys them more.
>> ----------------------------------------
>> You may "reply" to the address this message
>> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
>> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>>
>>
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