Peerman's comments clearly lay out the root of the problem.
One other thing before I continue. This discussion, like a number that
occurred during the 50th planning, started out as a fairly inclusive
conversation which devolved into a discussion among a small group of
FSCSP participants about things that are not FSCSP issues and excluding
the larger interested parties of the SWR. As I have noted before, not
everything occurring at Fort Stanton is the exclusive purview of the
FSCSP, or the SWR, or the state monument or the BLM. Their interests
often intersect but often do not. This is a case where the discussion
ought to be (and is returning via this note going to the list) among the
SWR membership. So, the discussion of the resting place of awards and
memorabilia needs to involve the SWR when the artifacts are related to
the organization. That is not happening at the moment. So, the point of
this is the next time you want to discuss this topic, send it to the SWR
list so everyone can see it.
In this instance, I have added the two other SWR officers who were not
party to the earlier rounds on this.
Okay, now I will summarize some of the comments I've received since
posting the proclamation (some were to the list, some to me only). I
think all interested members should have a voice. That probably would
mean a large number would agree with the idea of keeping it in NM, but
those wanting such also should provide _feasible_ and _suitable_
alternatives as to where and how to display it, not just 'keep it in the
state'.
The suggestions so far are these:
NSS
NCKRI
New Mexico Bureau of Geology and Mineral Resources museum, on the campus
of New Mexico Tech
Carlsbad Caverns Visitor Center
Ft Stanton bunk house
BLM refurbished headquarters on the quad
NCA/FSCave Room of the Fort Stanton Museum
As Peerman notes, the SWR membership and interests are far broader than
Fort Stanton and the FSCSP. The FSCSP represents a fraction of NM cavers
and most of them are SWR members. It is a subset of caving in NM,
nothing more. The SWR just happened to be formed at Fort Stanton in 1962
and has no other connotation relative to the cave and the area than that.
Some comments on the above suggestions.
First, none of the locations is even close to ideal, but some are better
than others.
Veni has said NCKRI would take it and display it, but thinks it more
appropriate for the NSS to have it due to organizational alignments. I
agree with George's view, though I'm not opposed to it going to NCKRI.
Plus, it's a long way out of the mainstream for most to go see it. The
only location I am adamantly opposed to is letting any unit of the NPS
touch it. The NPS has done nothing with or for the SWR compared to other
agencies. That said, I also would not give it to BLM or any other
governmental entity. It is not a BLM award, and putting it in the BLM
office at Stanton is tantamount to it disappearing as access is and will
be extremely limited. On that point, access will always be an issue
since no location is convenient to even a small majority of folks that
might be interested in seeing it in person.
The bunkhouse is a no-go due to lack of control of the facility plus, as
Peerman notes, the connection to the FSCSP. Anything put in there can
disappear and such loss would not be apparent for some time due to the
limited use of the building by cavers, but clearly unrestricted access
by anyone that cares to wander in.
The document and other items (the BLM national volunteer award and the
Tularosa banner) need to be in some public facility where they will be
secure. The Fort Stanton museum would qualify, but it has the same
issues of access (unreliable hours being the main one) plus, face it,
the cave room is mostly an afterthought and the facility does not do
much other than tolerate its presence. Plus, the geography issue is the
same as for the bunkhouse and the BLM office. While the proclamation
would easily fit, the banner would not. If we're going to solve this we
need to think about all the items now and those that may accrue in the
future.
The NM Tech suggestion qualifies as a public facility that likely has
much more reliable hours of operation than the Fort Stanton museum, plus
it clearly is in a central location. But, would anyone know to go there?
Probably not. Would they even want to display the items? Maybe, but I'm
guessing that since that facility is predominantly a rock shop, paper
and fabric would be of little interest to them.
The overarching concern about where to place these items ought to be
accessibility and security. And by security I mean that it be somewhere
that the archivists understand and appreciate the nature of the items
and they do not someday achieve the status of the Gary Davis painting of
Feather Cave which someone in BLM decided was (framed and matted) trash
and was almost lost in the dumpster had Bilbo not seen and rescued it in
a fortuitous alignment of the stars. If a facility does not have a
preservation focus for a particular area, those items become discardable
at some point, as in the Gary Davis instance.
Therefore, any facility that is not expressly a museum of some type is
suspect and unsuitable in my opinion.
Now, to address the concern that the document stay in NM. Fine, but
where? NCKRI and NMT satisfy the museum standard but are not ideal.
My preference is to send it to the NSS. It will be no more or less
accessible to NM cavers than the items Peerman has been holding, for
decades in the case of the banner. How was that more useful and
accessible to cavers? It wasn't and isn't. I did not even know he had
them and I suspect a great majority of other SWR cavers are likewise in
the dark. Well, they may not be at present, but the memory will recede.
It would be better to have the items in a museum where they can be cared
for rather than stored in a closet or wherever. Along those lines I have
a second SWR banner that I bought when we made the current one. It's
slightly smaller and I frequently ask myself why I thought it necessary
to get it. I would send it to the NSS along with the other items.
Face it, most cavers will only ever view these things as graphics on a
website. What exactly do they gain by standing in a room somewhere in NM
and looking at it in a frame? Nothing and they have to make the effort
to go there.
The NSS museum arguably will protect it better and it will contribute to
the national caving exposure in a facility expressly dedicated to
caving, where it will not end up in a dumpster someday, or deteriorating
in a closet, or eventually lost to memory.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Stephen Fleming
On 06/02/2012 9:53, Steve Peerman wrote:
Lynda,
It is a problem -- the SWR has no physical headquarters, and we're a diverse
bunch. The people that you see, Lynda, are the ones who participate in the FSCSP, but
there are others whose focus are the gypsum caves in the eastern and southern parts of
the state, and still others whose focus are the great limestone caves of the Guadalupe
Mountains. And there are a great many SWR members who are "armchair" cavers
who no longer actively cave anywhere anymore. Despite the work project at the fort that
we did to get the cafeteria, I don't think most SWR cavers would feel close ties to the
fort.
If the FSCSP had exclusive use of the bunkhouse, I'd have no problem
displaying these awards there, but there would be SWR members who would object
to that because the FSCSP is independent of the SWR. But I have to agree with
those who object to the proclamation going to the NSS archives, because most
SWR members would never see it there.
Perhaps you noticed the banner from the 1986 NSS convention at Tularosa
at the cafeteria last week. Kathy and I have kept that banner since the
convention, because her dad was the one who painted it. We discussed
donating the banner to the NSS archives at one point and we brought it up to
the person who was in charge at the time (but I don't recall who that was). He
recommended against it. He said that they have all kinds of stuff in the
archives, and it sits there gathering dust -- no one ever sees the stuff
because they didn't really have a place to display the materials or the staff
to properly document and organize the stuff. Now the NSS is getting a new
headquarters facility and they may have more resources for the display of such
materials, but until we know that, I would suggest we keep these things in the
area.
On Jun 2, 2012, at 8:20 AM, Lynda& James S�nchez wrote:
Good morning...Well that is also great news Steve, and I agree, it would be
nice to have it, them, displayed. So SWR has two special
awards/proclamations. I would reiterate again what I said below. SWR, because
of the volunteer carpenter project completed on bldg. 9, has a good working
relationship with both BLM and/or State Monuments. The most attractive place
and the area that it will be seen the most would logically be the Museum on the
Quad. BLM is not going to have their building complete for a while, but the
NCA room area would really be nice. Could we ask someone like Knutt Peterson
to help frame them either separately or together and place them on the special
fish line hangers they used for the other cave exhibits/map etc in the NCA room?
If not that, then does anyone else have a thought? Carlsbad would also be
great. Lynda
-----Original Message----- From: Steve Peerman
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 9:15 PM
To: Lynda& James S�nchez
Cc: Ron ; 'Stephen Fleming' ; John Corcoran ; 'Aaron Stockton' ; Pete Lindsley
; Wayne Walker
Subject: Re: [SWR] Proclamation
The region also got a national volunteer award from the BLM, which I have at my
house. If there were some place that these things could be displayed it would
be great.
On Jun 1, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Lynda& James S�nchez wrote:
All, you know, I was kind of thinking that too. A good copy could be sent to
NSS back east, but keep the original in NM. Maybe even in the BLM refurbished
headquarters on the quad once it is put in order, and in the meantime at the
Bunkhouse or Carlsbad Visitor Center. But still in NM. And what better place
than at Fort Stanton vicinity. Or, we could have it kept in the NCA/FSCave
Room of the Fort Stanton Museum. That is a really beautiful and historic
location and has photos of the cave. At any rate, I bet we could come up with
a safe place for it right here.
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