Rafal,
To much carbon dioxide will kill. A friend and I were surveying a cave
that floods drastically years ago. As we surveyed I began to develop a
headache and to feel nauseous. Finally my carbide light began to
misbehave, so for some reason, I climbed up higher to change carbide.
The lamp flame steadied some. I looked down at my survey partner I
noticed that he was just fumbling with his lamp. At this point I
realized what was wrong - high carbon dioxide content. I yelled at him
to climb up to my level. He did. After he changed carbide, we left. Once
out of the cave the headache and nausea went away. I never did complete
the survey and never did go back to that cave.
The CO_2 was probably from the huge piles of rotting leaves throughout
the cave.
CO_2 levels:
OSHA safe level - 0.5%
Max. short term exposure limit (OSHA) - 1.5%
Start to get a headache - 2%
Breathing twice normal rate - 3%
Bill Walden
NSS 11573
On 07/27/2012 10:32 PM, rafal kedzierski wrote:
Carbon dioxide? It's not that bad for you, it's in carbonated drinks,
air we exhale, it's even occasionally found in caves. In fact as long
as you electron transport chain gives electrons to acceptor like
oxygen as you make carbon dioxide, you can kick it and call yourself
alive.
Rafal Kedzierski
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:24:03 -0500
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; [email protected];
[email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction all my
adult life ,I couldn't count the times our work envirment became
compromised because of toxic fumes, just like high co2 levels you're
no wimp for haulin A out of there and even getting checked out.My pop
was chem engineer for Dow , he told me in his latter years that stuff
is bad for you.
On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power wrote:
My personal experience has been that folks who don't work in
industry or in a government agency which has a hazmat specialist
on board have never heard of an MSDS. Wouldn't know what it meant
if they had one. At BLM, we're required to take hazmat training
once/year. It's especially critical here in Oregon and other
states where meth labs and dumps are so prominent on public lands.
:-( Louise
There is an almost sure prevention for this form of stupidity. It
is called the M.S.D.S., the Material Safety Data Sheet. I is
supposed to be read BEFORE you open the container or apply the stuff!
E ^v^
*From:* Louise Power
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:24 AM
*To:* Geary Schindel ; Bill Mixon ; Texas Cavers
*Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
Wait!!! You mean I sent them all my canaries for nothing?! After
all, Gary, it's really not a mine anymore.
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]; [email protected]
> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:20:57 -0500
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
>
> Folks,
>
> I agree with Bill, when using solvent based paints (or for that
matter, any hazards material) in a confined space, it is much
quicker, easier and cheaper to use humans to determine if you've
exceeded any health related chemical thresholds verses real time
air monitoring or canaries. Most of the time, most folks become
violently ill before they actually die. While this is not the
recommended method by the American Council of Governmental
Industrial Hygienists, it seems to be the technique most often
used by industry. When employees get sick, it is probably time to
give them at least a 15 minute break. You don't have to worry
about long term exposures such as an increased risk of lung or
blood cancers as those folks probably won't be working for you in
20 years anyway so not your problem.
>
> Matter of fact, with substances such as asbestos or silica dust,
by allowing humans in a contaminated work area without
respirators, they actually help clean the air as the lungs retain
some of the asbestos fibers or silica (good for the room, bad for
the lungs). If you would like to see an excellent presentation on
silicoses and the Hawks Nest Tunnel in West Virginia and the
largest industrial accident in US History, you may want to visit
Helen Lang's web page
http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~lang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf
<http://www.geo.wvu.edu/%7Elang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf>
>
> I'm sure that the contractor read and followed all of the
warning labels and safety precautions for use of the product and
that it was really safe for use in a confined environment and that
the manufacturers warning about using the product only in well
ventilated areas was just to protect them from lawsuits.
>
> Using canaries for air monitoring has fallen out of favor in
recent years as they are cute and folks get attached to them. In
addition, there are a number of powerful animal rights groups that
help protect their interests (wonder how that would work for
humans). The correct method would be to develop a health and
safety plan that would require proper environmental controls such
as ventilation, selecting appropriate chemicals, using protective
equipment, closing down the facility, and air monitoring. However,
that all costs time and money.
>
> G
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:40 AM
> To: Cavers Texas
> Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
>
> The fact that a few staff "had to" be taken to hospital does not
prove that there was any real danger or there were any real inju
