texascavers Digest 21 Feb 2012 16:11:32 -0000 Issue 1503
Topics (messages 19617 through 19622):
Re: Cost of Rabies Shots
19617 by: Benjamin Schwartz
19618 by: Fritz Holt
19619 by: Kelly
Feb 2012 Punkin Photos
19620 by: cvreeland
Bracken work day March 3rd 2012
19621 by: Fran Hutchins
TCC Winter Conference-Tours & Workshops
19622 by: Mike Walsh
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--- Begin Message ---
A couple years ago, I got the IMOVAX pre-exposure 3-shot series for
about $500. It had to be ordered, as nobody around here except the ER
stocked it.
On another note, the color of the liquid vaccine looks a lot like a
prickly pear tuna juice drink; bright magenta. I keep waiting for the
super powers to kick in...
http://rayraekenya.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/vials.jpg
B
On 2/20/2012 1:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Re: Cost of Rabies Shots
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--- Begin Message ---
In my younger days (1950's) I had quite a few free-tails swirling around me
with a few hits while on some summer trips into Frio Cave. I had not heard of
histo and apparently not concerned about rabies. I had a lot of fun and
ignorance was bliss. Lucky is my middle name for many reasons.
Fritz
________________________________
From: Preston Forsythe [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 12:43 PM
To: [email protected]; R D Milhollin
Cc: Jim Kennedy
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cost of Rabies Shots
Thanks RD for checking as I was hoping the Miami price was inflated. I did
double check the Miami Audubon article and it cost the author $27,000.00.
I would certainly hope the vaccine would be cheaper in TX and KY. I was
wondering if it would even be available in KY?
When Crash gets time maybe he can enlighten us on the costs, procedures and
availability. I bet Crash has had the vaccines. Wonder how long the shots are
good for?
There have been several times in my caving days when I was surrounded by bats,
swimming in thick guano covered water, not to mention walking, wading and
crawling in deep guano.
Guano Go Caving,
Preston
=============================================
----- Original Message -----
From: R D Milhollin<mailto:[email protected]>
To: Preston Forsythe<mailto:[email protected]> ;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cost of Rabies Shots
Preston, that cost figure seemed a little out-of-range, so I took 4 minutes to
look around for other information to confirm or refute the article's claim.
This is from the North Dakota public health website:
http://www.ndhealth.gov/disease/Rabies/QandA.htm
"How much does rabies vaccine cost?
Rabies vaccine and immunoglobulin is very expensive. A typical vaccination
series with the rabies immunoglobulin can cost anywhere from $2,000 to $7,000+
per person."
and from a North Carolina new program:
http://www2.nbc17.com/news/2011/jun/30/rabies-shots-are-expensive-hard-find-and-time-cons-ar-1169155/
"If you think the long wait and multiple visits are tough to handle, the
hospital bills are worse.
Hutton<http://www2.nbc17.com/topics/types/person/tags/john-hutton/> said the
first treatment resulted in a bill of
$10,289<http://www2.nbc17.com/topics/types/currency/tags/usd/>. But why so much?
The cost of the ER
facility<http://www2.nbc17.com/topics/types/facility/tags/er-facility/> is only
7 percent of the bill, but then you need a vial of immunoglobulin. That's where
the big money factors in. Depending on its weight, a vial of immunoglobulin can
cost upwards of$1,500<http://www2.nbc17.com/topics/types/currency/tags/usd/>.
According to Rex
Hospital<http://www2.nbc17.com/topics/types/facility/tags/rex-hospital/>
Emergency Room
supervisor<http://www2.nbc17.com/topics/types/position/tags/emergency-room-supervisor/>
Sherry Witt<http://www2.nbc17.com/topics/types/person/tags/sherry-witt/>,
immunoglobulin is like liquid gold.
According to Rex, in Hutton's
$10,000<http://www2.nbc17.com/topics/types/currency/tags/usd/> bill, that one
shot was 80 percent of the bill -more than
$8,000<http://www2.nbc17.com/topics/types/currency/tags/usd/> for that one
shot."
So my unscientific, cursory survey of the information on the internet seems to
show that while very expensive, the figure quoted by the Miami Audubon seems
somewhat inflated, by a factor ranging from 2 to 4 times. What would be more
informative for us would be what Texas health providers charge for the
treatment.
________________________________
From: Preston Forsythe <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 10:23 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Cost of Rabies Shots
According to an article in the Miami Tropical Audubon Society newsletter,
Spring 2011, five rabies shots cost---$27,000.
The author one evening picked up a "little fluttering thing," a bat, which bit
her repeatedly between the thumb and forefinger. After 3 days she "yielded to
reason (and fear)" and went to the doctor. Regular doctors do not stock rabies
vaccine so she had to go to the Emergency Room. She received Five shots in the
upper arm, painless, and a bill for $27,000. But, that prevented the possible
rabies virus from migrating to the brain, where it is always fatal.
The bat was a Brazilian Free-Tailed bat and it lived for 3 days, hence the
shots.
The author says if you must handle bats wear heavy gloves.
By the way the Tropical Audubon Society headquarters in sw Miami at Coral
Gables is a great place to visit. Lots of birding in that very tropical and
jungle like area.
Cavingly,
Preston in KY
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All-
Thought I'd chime in here.
Rabies pre-exposure series is now four specifically timed shots of antigen
-usually runs a few hundred dollars (~five hundred for the series would be a
rough ball-park, but varies). Duration of response to the pre-exposure series
also varies - you can get titers drawn every few years and a booster as needed.
Post exposure, for those that have already had the rabies vaccination is one or
two boosters of the same antigen vaccine. Because of the lack of challenge
studies and imperfect association of titers in a cell-mediated process,
booster(s) after a know exposure are recommended for all vaccinated people
regardless of recent titer status.
Post-exposure, for unvaccinated people, is a dose of immunoglobulin plus the
full antigen vaccine series given over the following month. Immunoglobulin
(RIG) is very expensive. 30 years ago, the post exposure series with RIG was at
least a few thousand cost to the local health department. I'm not surprised if
the cost to the patient through an ER is now several thousand as reported,
depending on the county and specific circumstances. Many counties health
departments cover the cost of post-exposure for those that need it.
I had a post exposure series as a kid- 27 years later my titer is still high
without booster. YMMV. My peers (vets and some army) are routinely given the
pre-exposure series and titers generally remain high without regular
re-vaccination, though boosters are not unheard of.
Rabies risk to cavers is low as long as you don't handle bats or get bitten,
but bat bites can go unnoticed. I know there's tenuous suggestion for air
exposure (something non-caver public health professionals regularly cite) but
given the number of unvaccinated caving hours out there in bat caves, without
rabies cases (NSS publication at one point) risk is minimal if you don't have
direct contact with the bats. Histo is a much bigger likelihood from aerosol
if present.
If you're interested in pre-exposure vaccine, or think you were exposed, start
by calling your county health department. They're probably more up to date on
rabies than your local physician. Disclaimer: if your physician or
circumstances dictate otherwise, then don't believe everything you read on a
disto list ;). Back to lurking.
Kelly Still Brooks (DVM, MPH, DACPM)
NC currently
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2012, at 5:12 PM, Fritz Holt <[email protected]> wrote:
> In my younger days (1950’s) I had quite a few free-tails swirling around me
> with a few hits while on some summer trips into Frio Cave. I had not heard of
> histo and apparently not concerned about rabies. I had a lot of fun and
> ignorance was bliss. Lucky is my middle name for many reasons.
>
> Fritz
>
> From: Preston Forsythe [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 12:43 PM
> To: [email protected]; R D Milhollin
> Cc: Jim Kennedy
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cost of Rabies Shots
>
> Thanks RD for checking as I was hoping the Miami price was inflated. I did
> double check the Miami Audubon article and it cost the author $27,000.00.
>
> I would certainly hope the vaccine would be cheaper in TX and KY. I was
> wondering if it would even be available in KY?
>
> When Crash gets time maybe he can enlighten us on the costs, procedures and
> availability. I bet Crash has had the vaccines. Wonder how long the shots are
> good for?
>
> There have been several times in my caving days when I was surrounded by
> bats, swimming in thick guano covered water, not to mention walking, wading
> and crawling in deep guano.
>
> Guano Go Caving,
>
> Preston
> =============================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: R D Milhollin
> To: Preston Forsythe ; [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cost of Rabies Shots
>
> Preston, that cost figure seemed a little out-of-range, so I took 4 minutes
> to look around for other information to confirm or refute the article's claim.
>
>
> This is from the North Dakota public health website:
>
> http://www.ndhealth.gov/disease/Rabies/QandA.htm
>
> "How much does rabies vaccine cost?
> Rabies vaccine and immunoglobulin is very expensive. A typical vaccination
> series with the rabies immunoglobulin can cost anywhere from $2,000 to
> $7,000+ per person."
>
> and from a North Carolina new program:
>
> http://www2.nbc17.com/news/2011/jun/30/rabies-shots-are-expensive-hard-find-and-time-cons-ar-1169155/
>
> "If you think the long wait and multiple visits are tough to handle, the
> hospital bills are worse. Hutton said the first treatment resulted in a bill
> of $10,289. But why so much?
> The cost of the ER facility is only 7 percent of the bill, but then you need
> a vial of immunoglobulin. That's where the big money factors in. Depending on
> its weight, a vial of immunoglobulin can cost upwards of$1,500. According to
> Rex Hospital Emergency Room supervisor Sherry Witt, immunoglobulin is like
> liquid gold.
> According to Rex, in Hutton's $10,000 bill, that one shot was 80 percent of
> the bill -more than $8,000 for that one shot."
>
> So my unscientific, cursory survey of the information on the internet seems
> to show that while very expensive, the figure quoted by the Miami Audubon
> seems somewhat inflated, by a factor ranging from 2 to 4 times. What would be
> more informative for us would be what Texas health providers charge for the
> treatment.
> From: Preston Forsythe <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 10:23 AM
> Subject: [Texascavers] Cost of Rabies Shots
>
> According to an article in the Miami Tropical Audubon Society newsletter,
> Spring 2011, five rabies shots cost---$27,000.
>
> The author one evening picked up a "little fluttering thing," a bat, which
> bit her repeatedly between the thumb and forefinger. After 3 days she
> "yielded to reason (and fear)" and went to the doctor. Regular doctors do not
> stock rabies vaccine so she had to go to the Emergency Room. She received
> Five shots in the upper arm, painless, and a bill for $27,000. But, that
> prevented the possible rabies virus from migrating to the brain, where it is
> always fatal.
>
> The bat was a Brazilian Free-Tailed bat and it lived for 3 days, hence the
> shots.
>
> The author says if you must handle bats wear heavy gloves.
>
> By the way the Tropical Audubon Society headquarters in sw Miami at Coral
> Gables is a great place to visit. Lots of birding in that very tropical and
> jungle like area.
>
> Cavingly,
>
> Preston in KY
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
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We surveyed around some boulders in Punkin Cave, and I nabbed a few snapshots
of the proceedings:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cvreeland/sets/72157629408737631/
Also, Lowgun mentioned that no one would know they could buy my photography
shirts unless I posted an actual link to the page, so here's that if anyone's
interested:
http://art-wear.org/blog/?page_id=56
Chris
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There will be a volunteer workday at Bracken Saturday March 3rd from 9am till
5pm. Activities will included spreading mulch and gravel (always a crowd
pleasers) Cutting (with loppers) Cedar trees. Rock stacking (another crowd
pleaser).
Gate will be open just follow the "volunteer" signs.
If you have tools or a wheelbarrow please bring them otherwise one will be
provided.
Bring your lunch and water.
If you have questions you can contact me at 512-848-9404 or email.
Thanks,
Fran
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Join us this February 24-26, 2012 for the fifth annual Texas Cave
Conservancy Winter Conference. As usual, it will be held at the TCC
Headquarters and Campground. While everyone is welcome, it is an event set
up for new cavers. The TCC will present a Cave Restoration Workshop on
Saturday. Grottos, come on out and be sure to let your new cavers know that
they are welcome. We will have camping, caving, workshops, a Saturday night
meal and a party. Bring a new caver or ten.
This year, Speakers after the Saturday night meal will host a presentation
on the Old Southwest Texas Grotto. We will have slides to go along with the
cavers stories. We recently sent out a list of almost 500 former SWTG
members. This should be fun.
The Texas Caver Cook Crew will prepare a meal for Saturday night. They are
the best around, come on out and enjoy their work.
Donations will be accepted, however, if you are a new caver everything will
provided at no cost. Camping, caving and a great party Saturday evening
will be some of the activities. If you want to set up a special event,
contact us. Start 2011 out with your caver friends, both old and new. For
more information contact us at:
[email protected]
Mike Walsh-TCC President
512-249-2283
TCC Headquarters
1800 West Park
Cedar Park, Texas 78613
TCC Winter Conference Activities
February 24-26, 2012
Friday
Camping & Caving
Saturday
Breakfast- TCC Headquarters
Tours & Workshops - Starting 9:00-10:00 A.M.
. Cave Geology & Hydrology Tour-10:00 A.M.
Bill Larsen
. Cave Restoration Workshop - 9:00 A.M.
Justin Shaw
. Cave Clean Up - All Day
. Cave Digging Workshop -10:A.M.
Christopher Franke
. Cave Slide Review- 10:00 A.M.
Jim Jasek
________________________________________
. Avery Ranch Cave- All Day
. Dies Ranch Treasure Cave-All Day
. Dies Ranch Shelter Cave-All Day
. Cedar Park area Caving-All Day
. Dinner - 6:30 PM
. Special After Dinner- guest presentation by the old SWTG members.
(the old Grotto by the old cavers).
.
. Hall of Texas Cavers slides & Party
. Dave Cave's Salon (Strawberry Margaritas & more)
Sunday
Breakfast-TCC Headquarters
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