texascavers Digest 22 Dec 2010 20:49:13 -0000 Issue 1214

Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:49:35 -0800 (PST) 

texascavers Digest 22 Dec 2010 20:49:13 -0000 Issue 1214

Topics (messages 16747 through 16763):

TPWD Commission Approves Devils River Land Acquisition
        16747 by: Logan McNatt

Re: 9:00 CDT tonight:  "World's Biggest Cave" on National Geographic channel
        16748 by: John P Brooks

"Lost World" blog on NY TIMES website
        16749 by: John P Brooks

party Dec 29
        16750 by: Mixon Bill
        16751 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com

San Saba County/CO2/radon
        16752 by: Gill Edigar
        16760 by: Aimee Beveridge
        16761 by: Gill Edigar
        16762 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
        16763 by: caverarch.aol.com

New pictures of the Martian pits
        16753 by: Marvin & Lisa
        16755 by: Geary Schindel

Photo gallery of LARGE Vietnam cave
        16754 by: Scott Boyd
        16757 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com
        16758 by: Karen

CO2 and radon
        16756 by: Mixon Bill
        16759 by: Diana Tomchick

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Great news! Yesterday the TPWD Commissioners approved the purchase of the Devils River Ranch property. All 13 people who requested to speak (3 minutes each) were in favor of the purchase, and most of them thanked TPWD for listening to the public's complaints and finding a way to keep the current Devils River SNA. Arron Wertheim spoke on behalf of TCMA and cavers. 

Here's the link to the announcement on the TPWD website:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20101220b

Logan

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
This show is replaying on Monday, December 27th at 5 pm....

Plenty of time to hit those post Christmas sales and buy a BIG screen TV.


--- On Mon, 12/20/10, Logan McNatt <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Logan McNatt <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] 9:00 CDT tonight:  "World's Biggest Cave" on National 
Geographic channel
To: "Texascavers" <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 8:06 PM

A reminder that the NG channel has a show on the "World's Biggest Cave" in one 
hour:  tonight at 9:00 pm.
Unfortunately, I don't have a wide-screen TV; the images may not fit on my 
small old TV.

Logan

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
http://scientistatwork.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/17/following-maps-and-finding-a-lost-world/?ref=science

This is an interesting BLOG on the NY Times website, posted by a expedition in 
Madagascar. In this and other posts; they have visited quite a few caves. They 
don't have a TV show requiring a big TV...but each blog is an interesting read.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I'm having a party at my house the evening of Wednesday, December 29, my 70th birthday. Sevenish till it's over. Cake, some munchies, wimpy yellow beer, and cheap wine provided. Bring whatever else, or just yourself. 14045 North Green Hills Loop, Austin, Texas 78737 (actually in northern Hays County). (512) 288-4991 (Austin phone).
As of this writing, the idiot Google map on the UT Grotto calendar is incorrect. My house is about 150 yards east of where they show it to be.
Directions: Green Hills Loop, marked only by a small red street sign, takes off from RR 1826 4.8 miles left of where the far south end of Mopac expressway (Loop 1, then Tx 45) T's into it, or 2.3 miles right of where 967 from Buda T's into it. From the north (Mopac), it is about 200 yards past a fire station. From the south (967), it is across the road from a fire-station warning sign. On Green Hills Loop, go right at the Y, steeply uphill. At the top of the hill are two large houses (not mine), and the road turns left along the ridgetop. Do not turn left, but go straight ahead onto my driveway. There is lots of parking on what passes for my lawn, but late-comers might need to park along the road on the way up the hill. 

I have put a good map at amcs-pubs.org/mixon.gif. -- Bill Mixon
----------------------------------------
A fearless man cannot be brave.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
We won't be able to make it, Bill, as my wife and I will be in N'
Awlins, celebrating our anniversary.

But, HAPPY 70th, Bill!



Mark



-----Original Message-----
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 10:14 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] party Dec 29

I'm having a party at my house the evening of Wednesday, December 29,  
my 70th birthday. Sevenish till it's over. Cake, some munchies, wimpy  
yellow beer, and cheap wine provided. Bring whatever else, or just  
yourself. 14045 North Green Hills Loop, Austin, Texas 78737 (actually  
in northern Hays County). (512) 288-4991 (Austin phone).

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
For a long time after I first visited caves in San Saba County in the
1960s I assumed that the source of the high levels of CO2 were due to
decomposition of organic materials that originated on the surface. At
some point (years ago) after radon became a hot topic I started
associating radon with CO2 out gassing and more recently wondering if
any radon studies have been done at CBSP. So I asked my caver friend
and geologist Steve Hall of Virginia about those relationships. He is
a radon specialist. He said that the source of out gassing CO2 is
often igneous rocks which are also a radon source. I started to wonder
what the rock sequence was in the Gorman Falls area. How thick is the
limestone/dolomite? What formations lay between the top layer and the
granite below? Could that be a source for the CO2? Should cavers there
take any special precautions regarding radon? I tried the internet
without getting much satisfaction so am wondering if anybody has
information on any of that handy. It would make an interesting
discussion.
--Ediger

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Gill,

I'd bet that San Saba caves could could have slightly higher radon than 
background, especially if they are connected to groundwater enriched in radon 
and have little air turnover.  Radon gas is denser than air.  


You'd need long term exposure for it to be a health risk. Living in a poorly 
ventilated house with a water well producing from igneous, metamorphic or coal 
or hcarb-bearing strata would be of much greater concern naturally.  


Most of Texas (including San Saba), has very low radon gas compared to many 
other parts of the country.  Risk increases over the Llano Uplift and El Paso 
area.  See map. 


http://www.city-data.com/radon-zones/Texas/Texas.html

The ash layers (bentonite beds) in our local Austin Chalk are somewhat 
radioative.  Recent studies of groundwater from Houston have shown elevated 
levels (above EPA MCLs) of uranium and radium.  Tangentially, no level of 
radioativity is really safe but avoiding cigarretts, air travel and x-ray 
machines is helpful.  

Aimee


________________________________
From: Gill Edigar <[email protected]>
To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, December 21, 2010 5:18:05 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] San Saba County/CO2/radon

For a long time after I first visited caves in San Saba County in the
1960s I assumed that the source of the high levels of CO2 were due to
decomposition of organic materials that originated on the surface. At
some point (years ago) after radon became a hot topic I started
associating radon with CO2 out gassing and more recently wondering if
any radon studies have been done at CBSP. So I asked my caver friend
and geologist Steve Hall of Virginia about those relationships. He is
a radon specialist. He said that the source of out gassing CO2 is
often igneous rocks which are also a radon source. I started to wonder
what the rock sequence was in the Gorman Falls area. How thick is the
limestone/dolomite? What formations lay between the top layer and the
granite below? Could that be a source for the CO2? Should cavers there
take any special precautions regarding radon? I tried the internet
without getting much satisfaction so am wondering if anybody has
information on any of that handy. It would make an interesting
discussion.
--Ediger

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
OK. But I'm interested in seeing a cross-section of the
sequence--including ground water conditions) above the granite (also
known to have radiation levels above EPA MCLs). That granite is pretty
hot, as I understand it, and decomposition of it could be producing a
lot of CO2 & radon. I don't think there would be much geothermal
influence left in the pluton but don't really know that and is one of
the questions I'm looking for somebody to answer. Also, was that area
not part of the Llano Uplift? If not, it is very near it. The caves of
that area have always had a CO2 content higher than other Texas caves
and which would seem to me to be unjustified by the decay of organic
surface material--especially since some caves don't take run off but
still have a lot of CO2.
--Ediger

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Aimee Beveridge <[email protected]> wrote:
> Gill,
>
> I'd bet that San Saba caves could could have slightly higher radon than
> background, especially if they are connected to groundwater enriched in
> radon and have little air turnover.  Radon gas is denser than air.
>
> You'd need long term exposure for it to be a health risk. Living in a poorly
> ventilated house with a water well producing from igneous, metamorphic or
> coal or hcarb-bearing strata would be of much greater concern naturally.
>
> Most of Texas (including San Saba), has very low radon gas compared to many
> other parts of the country.  Risk increases over the Llano Uplift and El
> Paso area.  See map.
>
> http://www.city-data.com/radon-zones/Texas/Texas.html
>
> The ash layers (bentonite beds) in our local Austin Chalk are somewhat
> radioative.  Recent studies of groundwater from Houston have shown elevated
> levels (above EPA MCLs) of uranium and radium.  Tangentially, no level of
> radioativity is really safe but avoiding cigarretts, air travel and x-ray
> machines is helpful.
>
> Aimee
> ________________________________
> From: Gill Edigar <[email protected]>
> To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tue, December 21, 2010 5:18:05 PM
> Subject: [Texascavers] San Saba County/CO2/radon
>
> For a long time after I first visited caves in San Saba County in the
> 1960s I assumed that the source of the high levels of CO2 were due to
> decomposition of organic materials that originated on the surface. At
> some point (years ago) after radon became a hot topic I started
> associating radon with CO2 out gassing and more recently wondering if
> any radon studies have been done at CBSP. So I asked my caver friend
> and geologist Steve Hall of Virginia about those relationships. He is
> a radon specialist. He said that the source of out gassing CO2 is
> often igneous rocks which are also a radon source. I started to wonder
> what the rock sequence was in the Gorman Falls area. How thick is the
> limestone/dolomite? What formations lay between the top layer and the
> granite below? Could that be a source for the CO2? Should cavers there
> take any special precautions regarding radon? I tried the internet
> without getting much satisfaction so am wondering if anybody has
> information on any of that handy. It would make an interesting
> discussion.
> --Ediger
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Have you checked w. BEG?


Dec 22, 2010 01:48:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
OK. But I'm interested in seeing a cross-section of the
sequence--including ground water conditions) above the granite (also
known to have radiation levels above EPA MCLs). That granite is pretty
hot, as I understand it, and decomposition of it could be producing a
lot of CO2 & radon. I don't think there would be much geothermal
influence left in the pluton but don't really know that and is one of
the questions I'm looking for somebody to answer. Also, was that area
not part of the Llano Uplift? If not, it is very near it. The caves of
that area have always had a CO2 content higher than other Texas caves
and which would seem to me to be unjustified by the decay of organic
surface material--especially since some caves don't take run off but
still have a lot of CO2.
--Ediger

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Aimee Beveridge wrote:
> Gill,
>
> I'd bet that San Saba caves could could have slightly higher radon than
> background, especially if they are connected to groundwater enriched in
> radon and have little air turnover.  Radon gas is denser than air.
>
> You'd need long term exposure for it to be a health risk. Living in a poorly
> ventilated house with a water well producing from igneous, metamorphic or
> coal or hcarb-bearing strata would be of much greater concern naturally.
>
> Most of Texas (including San Saba), has very low radon gas compared to many
> other parts of the country.  Risk increases over the Llano Uplift and El
> Paso area.  See map.
>
> http://www.city-data.com/radon-zones/Texas/Texas.html
>
> The ash layers (bentonite beds) in our local Austin Chalk are somewhat
> radioative.  Recent studies of groundwater from Houston have shown elevated
> levels (above EPA MCLs) of uranium and radium.  Tangentially, no level of
> radioativity is really safe but avoiding cigarretts, air travel and x-ray
> machines is helpful.
>
> Aimee
> ________________________________
> From: Gill Edigar
> To: Cavers Texas
> Sent: Tue, December 21, 2010 5:18:05 PM
> Subject: [Texascavers] San Saba County/CO2/radon
>
> For a long time after I first visited caves in San Saba County in the
> 1960s I assumed that the source of the high levels of CO2 were due to
> decomposition of organic materials that originated on the surface. At
> some point (years ago) after radon became a hot topic I started
> associating radon with CO2 out gassing and more recently wondering if
> any radon studies have been done at CBSP. So I asked my caver friend
> and geologist Steve Hall of Virginia about those relationships. He is
> a radon specialist. He said that the source of out gassing CO2 is
> often igneous rocks which are also a radon source. I started to wonder
> what the rock sequence was in the Gorman Falls area. How thick is the
> limestone/dolomite? What formations lay between the top layer and the
> granite below? Could that be a source for the CO2? Should cavers there
> take any special precautions regarding radon? I tried the internet
> without getting much satisfaction so am wondering if anybody has
> information on any of that handy. It would make an interesting
> discussion.
> --Ediger
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
>

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
How comforting to us Houstonians!  But we are in the midst of transitioning 
from groundwater to surface water for the region, I assume more due to concern 
over subsidence than uranium or radon content.  One natural component of our 
groundwater that will be missed if it isn't replaced artificially is flouride.  
Kids from the parts of town with natural fluoridation have grown up with much 
more intact dentition.  (Concern of threats to precious bodily fluids per Gen. 
'Buck' Turgidson aside.)


Roger





-----Original Message-----
From: Aimee Beveridge <[email protected]>
To: Gill Edigar <[email protected]>; Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 1:25 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] San Saba County/CO2/radon



Gill,
 
I'd bet that San Saba caves could could have slightly higher radon than 
background, especially if they are connected to groundwater enriched in radon 
and have little air turnover.  Radon gas is denser than air.  
 
You'd need long term exposure for it to be a health risk. Living in a poorly 
ventilated house with a water well producing from igneous, metamorphic or coal 
or hcarb-bearing strata would be of much greater concern naturally.  
 
Most of Texas (including San Saba), has very low radon gas compared to many 
other parts of the country.  Risk increases over the Llano Uplift and El Paso 
area.  See map. 
 
http://www.city-data.com/radon-zones/Texas/Texas.html
 
The ash layers (bentonite beds) in our local Austin Chalk are somewhat 
radioative.  Recent studies of groundwater from Houston have shown elevated 
levels (above EPA MCLs) of uranium and radium.  Tangentially, no level of 
radioativity is really safe but avoiding cigarretts, air travel and x-ray 
machines is helpful.  
 
Aimee



From: Gill Edigar <[email protected]>
To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, December 21, 2010 5:18:05 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] San Saba County/CO2/radon

For a long time after I first visited caves in San Saba County in the
1960s I assumed that the source of the high levels of CO2 were due to
decomposition of organic materials that originated on the surface. At
some point (years ago) after radon became a hot topic I started
associating radon with CO2 out gassing and more recently wondering if
any radon studies have been done at CBSP. So I asked my caver friend
and geologist Steve Hall of Virginia about those relationships. He is
a radon specialist. He said that the source of out gassing CO2 is
often igneous rocks which are also a radon source. I started to wonder
what the rock sequence was in the Gorman Falls area. How thick is the
limestone/dolomite? What formations lay between the top layer and the
granite below? Could that be a source for the CO2? Should cavers there
take any special precautions regarding radon? I tried the internet
without getting much satisfaction so am wondering if anybody has
information on any of that handy. It would make an interesting
discussion.
--Ediger

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/12/photogalleries/101221-mars-p
its-pictures-photos-science-nasa-space-caves/#/mars-pits-overview_30639_600x
450.jpg

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Very nice,

Thanks,

Geary

From: Marvin & Lisa [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] New pictures of the Martian pits

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/12/photogalleries/101221-mars-pits-pictures-photos-science-nasa-space-caves/#/mars-pits-overview_30639_600x450.jpg

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
If you like cave photos, here's a photo gallery of a large cave in Vietnam:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/01/largest-cave/peter-photography

Scott

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
 

If you like HUGE caves, like I do, this one looks perfect!

 

Wow! I may need to take a trip to Vietnam sometime.

 

(Why can't we have more caves like this in Texas?! I thought the ones we
visited in NM were huge, but, not like this one).

 

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

From: Scott Boyd [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 7:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Photo gallery of LARGE Vietnam cave

 

If you like cave photos, here's a photo gallery of a large cave in
Vietnam:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/01/largest-cave/peter-photography

Scott

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Agreed, it is breathtaking.  Thanks for the link, Scott.

Cheers,
Karen

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 11:05 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> If you like HUGE caves, like I do, this one looks perfect!
>
>
>
> Wow! I may need to take a trip to Vietnam sometime.
>
>
>
> (Why can’t we have more caves like this in Texas?! I thought the ones we
> visited in NM were huge, but, not like this one).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Scott Boyd [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 21, 2010 7:43 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Photo gallery of LARGE Vietnam cave
>
>
>
> If you like cave photos, here's a photo gallery of a large cave in Vietnam:
>
> http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/01/largest-cave/peter-photography
>
> Scott
>
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Some people are a lot more qualified to answer Ediger's questions than I am, but seeing as none of them has jumped in....
CO2 of volcanic origin in pretty rare in caves. Main sources are decay of organic matter and oxidation of material in the bedrock, the former more often than the latter. (The decay of organic matter might not be occurring in the cave. Soil CO2 can be carried in drips or stream water.) But I understand that there is a relatively large amount of petroleum in the limestone in which the caves around San Saba have formed, so that might be a reason "bad air" is so often present there compared to a lot of other places. I doubt if the limestone around there contains much uranium, the source of radon, but there might be some in deeper rocks.
Anyway, CO2 accumulations are a sign of poor ventilation, and that is the same circumstance that would allow radon to accumulate, if there were any of it seeping from the rock. However, the radon hazard in caves has for twenty years or so been generally overhyped every time it is "rediscovered." I doubt if there are any circumstances under which recreational cavers, at least non-smokers, need to worry about it in any natural caves. Stay out of old uranium mines. The radon risk was first observed in uranium miners who smoked. The management agency for Horsethief Cave, Wyoming, used to keep track of the radon exposure of cavers to whom they'd given permits; there was a reasonable amount of uranium in some of the fill in the cave. Don't know whether they're still doing that or not. But the government worries about anything that will increase your lifetime risk of getting lung cancer by a few percent relatively, when it's only about 1% anyway if you haven't smoked a lot. That is, from, say, 1% up to 1.1%. Big deal. Some show- cave guides might have enough exposure to radon to worry about. Radon is thought to be the greatest cause of lung cancer in non-smokers, but it's still a very rare disease in non-smokers. (Contrary to what one might think from all the propaganda, the chance of even a smoker getting lung cancer during his lifetime is not more than 10 percent.) -- Mixon
Incidentally, the accumulation of CO2 in the lower part of a cave has nothing to do with the fact that it's heavier than air. (I don't remember the exact numbers, but to get a doubling--nowhere near what we call bad air--of CO2 just because of its molecular weight, you'd need a pit full of completely still air thousands of meters deep.) When it accumulates deep in a cave, it's just being created or released there faster than it is removed by diffusion or air movements. -- Mixon 
----------------------------------------
A fearless man cannot be brave.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
>  Stay out of old uranium mines. The radon risk was first observed in uranium 
> miners who smoked. The management agency for Horsethief Cave, Wyoming, used 
> to keep track of the radon exposure of cavers to whom they'd given permits; 
> there was a reasonable amount of uranium in some of the fill in the cave. 
> Don't know whether they're still doing that or not. But the government 
> worries about anything that will increase your lifetime risk of getting lung 
> cancer by a few percent relatively, when it's only about 1% anyway if you 
> haven't smoked a lot. That is, from, say, 1% up to 1.1%. Big deal. Some 
> show-cave guides might have enough exposure to radon to worry about. Radon is 
> thought to be the greatest cause of lung cancer in non-smokers, but it's 
> still a very rare disease in non-smokers. (Contrary to what one might think 
> from all the propaganda, the chance of even a smoker getting lung cancer 
> during his lifetime is not more than 10 percent.) -- Mixon

Bill,

I don't know where you get your statistics on lung cancer, but they're off base 
and misleading. According to the World Health Organization 
(http://www.who.int/tobacco/research/cancer/en/):

"Lung cancer - the big one"
As noted at the outset, the paper describing the association between tobacco 
use and lung cancer stands as a classic in public health. On average, smokers 
increase their risk of lung cancer between 5 and 10-fold and in developed 
countries, smoking is responsible for upwards of 80% of all lung cancers. Using 
American data, 24% of men who smoke can expect to developing cancer during 
their expected life time.

Lung cancer remains a disease with a dismal prognosis. Although one-year 
all-stage survival is reported to have increased from 32% in 1973 to 41% in 
1994, five-year survival has remained unchanged at 14%. Early detection has 
been promoted as a potentially valuable intervention but its cost-effectiveness 
puts it beyond the reach of all but the most wealthy health care systems, and 
even then, pales in comparison to the cost-effectiveness of comprehensive 
programs and policies to reduce tobacco consumption.
----------

The 24% statistic quoted above is for all cancers (and there are many more than 
just lung) associated with tobacco use. According to the National Cancer 
Institute (statistics for 2005-2007), the lifetime risk (percent) of lung 
cancer for all races and both sexes for all people (smokers and non-smokers) is 
6.95%. For perspective, the rate for all types of cancers is about 41%. (BTW, 
as you get past the age of about 50, your roughly twice as likely to die of 
cancer or heart disease than you are to die of Alzheimer's disease). See 
http://seer.cancer.gov/csr/1975_2007/results_single/sect_01_table.14_2pgs.pdf 
for more details.

Also from the National Cancer Institute:

"Definition of lung cancer: Cancer that forms in tissues of the lung, usually 
in the cells lining air passages. The two main types are small cell lung cancer 
and non-small cell lung cancer. These types are diagnosed based on how the 
cells look under a microscope.

________________________________

UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.

Estimated new cases and deaths from lung cancer (non-small cell and small cell 
combined) in the United States in 2010:

        
 New cases: 222,520

        
 Deaths: 157,300

The three leading causes of cancer death for all men, with the exception of 
Asian/Pacific Islanders, were lung, prostate and colorectal cancer. Lung, liver 
and colorectal cancers were the top three causes of cancer death in 
Asian/Pacific Islander men. For women, the three leading causes of cancer death 
were lung, breast and colorectal cancer for all racial/ethnic groups except 
Hispanic women, for whom breast cancer ranked first."

Get your facts straight the next time you pontificate about something you 
clearly know little about, such as health issues. Lung cancer is serious and 
few people who get it survive for long, and the side effects of treatment 
aren't pretty. And we're not even talking about the other common cancers of 
smokers such as oral, throat and stomach cancer, which are also extremely 
common and quite nasty.

Diana

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B   
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.     
Email: [email protected]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)


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