texascavers Digest 22 Jan 2011 05:38:01 -0000 Issue 1230

Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:38:22 -0800 (PST) 

texascavers Digest 22 Jan 2011 05:38:01 -0000 Issue 1230

Topics (messages 16892 through 16908):

Re: website for Hinds Cave
        16892 by: Gill Edigar
        16893 by: Gill Edigar

Re: cavers on archeo crews
        16894 by: Logan McNatt
        16895 by: caverarch
        16896 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
        16901 by: Fritz Holt

Tennessee Cave and Karst Working Group Public Meeting
        16897 by: Geary Schindel

cavers at arch sites
        16898 by: Mixon Bill
        16900 by: Fritz Holt
        16904 by: Gill Edigar
        16905 by: caverarch

Re: Public web site on the TSA Spring Convention
        16899 by: Simon Newton
        16902 by: Stefan Creaser

East Texas Caver's Cookout - update
        16903 by: David

Re: cavers on archeo crews:  Hueco Tanks
        16906 by: Logan McNatt
        16908 by: Rod Goke

various Spring activities
        16907 by: David

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message --- 
Although Boon may have been around Austin on and off around that time,
I'm over 99% certain he didn't work on any digs. That was a Texas A&M
dig an I don't see anybody there that looks like any of the Austin
cave-related diggers of the day--a few of whom I lived with or near.
Logan ought to have a better idea of who would have made up that crew.
Absolutely nobody recognizable to me in any of the pics. Several of
them have on A&I insignia--caps & T-shirts.
--Ediger

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
That should have said "A&M insignia". My fingers have too much typing
history behind um.
--Ediger

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Gill Edigar <[email protected]> wrote:
> Although Boon may have been around Austin on and off around that time,
> I'm over 99% certain he didn't work on any digs. That was a Texas A&M
> dig an I don't see anybody there that looks like any of the Austin
> cave-related diggers of the day--a few of whom I lived with or near.
> Logan ought to have a better idea of who would have made up that crew.
> Absolutely nobody recognizable to me in any of the pics. Several of
> them have on A&I insignia--caps & T-shirts.
> --Ediger
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- No Michael Boon, Blake Harrison, or other cavers on the TAMU archeology crews at Hinds Cave, just students. I was at A&M in the late 70s and knew most of the people who had worked there.
During the 70s and 80s, many cavers worked on archeological digs for Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, thanks to Ron Ralph, Rune Burnett, and Orion Knox who worked there. That's how I got my start in archeology, in 1972 at Hueco Tanks State Park, making $2.50/hr. (The next year I got a hefty raise, to $2.52/hr). Cavers worked at Hueco Tanks, Fort McKavett, Fort Lancaster, Mission Rosario (near Goliad), Kreishe Brewery (near La Grange), Fanthorp Inn (Grimes County), McKinney Falls, Enchanted Rock, Seminole Sink ,etc. The work was seasonal, often a couple of months in the spring and a couple of months in the fall. Perfect for the active caver lifestyle! As soon as the project ended we took all the money we had saved (wages had increased to $3-$5/hr) and headed off on extended caving trips, usually to Mexico.
I can't remember all of the cavers who worked on these projects, but some of the regulars were Don Broussard, Maureen Cavanaugh, Steve Zeman, Dino Lowrey, Michael McEachern, and me. Others involved with at least one project include Pete Strickland, Ed Alexander, Tom Byrd, and Ted Samsell. Apologies to the many I can't remember or didn't work with. 

Logan



Mark Minton wrote:
There is a photo of some people working on an an archaeological dig in 1976, and one of them is a "student" named Michael Boon! Is that Mike Boon the caver? The picture does not show enough to identify the person, but I didn't think he was ever a student in Texas. 

Preston Forsythe wrote:
I think the picture looks like Blake, rather than Mike Boon. As far as I know Boon did not do that type of work. Is that Ron in the background? The entire crew could have been from the 33rd St. caver house in Austin. Notice Dr. Dirt, an armadillo expert, is mentioned. Thanks for the very interesting link. And, thanks to Logan. 

Roger Moore wrote:
I don't know Mike Boon, so I can't comment on the question. But 1976 was close to the peak year for cavers doing archeological field work to make money between Mexico trips, etc. It is in some ways ideal work for a young, footloose caver. A field tech is usually off in the middle of nowhere, but getting his/her food and lodging paid for. The work is often physically hard, so good for staying in shape. And there is crossover with many caving skills such as overland navigation, sketching, and basic map- or plan-making. Sometimes the work actually takes place in a caving area. But, back then, a field session was ALWAY a party when not hard at work. 


Gill Edigar wrote:
Although Boon may have been around Austin on and off around that time,
I'm over 99% certain he didn't work on any digs. That was a Texas A&M
dig an I don't see anybody there that looks like any of the Austin
cave-related diggers of the day--a few of whom I lived with or near.
Logan ought to have a better idea of who would have made up that crew.
Absolutely nobody recognizable to me in any of the pics. Several of
them have on A&I insignia--caps & T-shirts.--Ediger

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Bill Steele had told me that he did the field tech gig, as well. I worked for 
Ron at Martin Dies State Park shortly after moving to Houston in 1976, and 
spent many hours quizzing him about the CV SUKS, days, etc.


Roger





-----Original Message-----
From: Logan McNatt <[email protected]>
To: Gill Edigar <[email protected]>; caverarch <[email protected]>; Roger Moore 
<[email protected]>
Cc: Mark Minton <[email protected]>; Texascavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2011 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: cavers on archeo crews


No Michael Boon, Blake Harrison, or other cavers on the TAMU archeology crews 
at Hinds Cave, just students.  I was at A&M in the late 70s and knew most of 
the people who had worked there. 
 
During the 70s and 80s, many cavers worked on archeological digs for Texas 
Parks and Wildlife Department, thanks to Ron Ralph,  Rune Burnett, and Orion 
Knox who worked there.  That's how I got my start in archeology, in 1972 at 
Hueco Tanks State Park, making $2.50/hr.  (The next year I got a hefty raise, 
to $2.52/hr).  Cavers worked at Hueco Tanks,  Fort McKavett, Fort Lancaster, 
Mission Rosario (near Goliad), Kreishe Brewery (near La Grange), Fanthorp Inn 
(Grimes County), McKinney Falls, Enchanted Rock, Seminole Sink ,etc.  The work 
was seasonal, often a couple of months in the spring and a couple of months in 
the fall.  Perfect for the active caver lifestyle!  As soon as the project 
ended we took all the money we had saved (wages had increased to $3-$5/hr) and 
headed off on extended caving trips, usually to Mexico. 
 
I can't remember all of the cavers who worked on these projects, but some of 
the regulars were  Don Broussard, Maureen Cavanaugh, Steve Zeman,  Dino Lowrey, 
Michael McEachern, and me.  Others involved with at least one project include 
Pete Strickland, Ed Alexander, Tom Byrd, and Ted Samsell.  Apologies to the 
many I can't remember or didn't work with. 
 
Logan 
 
 
Mark Minton wrote: 
There is a photo of some people working on an an archaeological dig in 1976, 
and one of them is a "student" named Michael Boon!  Is that Mike Boon the 
caver?  The picture does not show enough to identify the person, but I didn't 
think he was ever a student in Texas. 
 
Preston Forsythe wrote: 
I think the picture looks like Blake, rather than Mike Boon. As far as I know 
Boon did not do that type of work. Is that Ron in the background? The entire 
crew could have been from the 33rd St. caver house in Austin. Notice Dr. Dirt, 
an armadillo expert, is mentioned. Thanks for the very interesting link. And, 
thanks to Logan. 
 
Roger Moore wrote: 
I don't know Mike Boon, so I can't comment on the question. But 1976 was close 
to the peak year for cavers doing archeological field work to make money 
between Mexico trips, etc. It is in some ways ideal work for a young, footloose 
caver. A field tech is usually off in the middle of nowhere, but getting 
his/her food and lodging paid for. The work is often physically hard, so good 
for staying in shape. And there is crossover with many caving skills such as 
overland navigation, sketching, and basic map- or plan-making. Sometimes the 
work actually takes place in a caving area. But, back then, a field session was 
ALWAY a party when not hard at work. 
 
Gill Edigar wrote: 
Although Boon may have been around Austin on and off around that time, 
I'm over 99% certain he didn't work on any digs. That was a Texas A&M 
dig an I don't see anybody there that looks like any of the Austin 
cave-related diggers of the day--a few of whom I lived with or near. 
Logan ought to have a better idea of who would have made up that crew. 
Absolutely nobody recognizable to me in any of the pics. Several of 
them have on A&I insignia--caps & T-shirts.--Ediger

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Logan,
  You forgot Sebastapol (Seguin), Varner-Hogg (where we stayed in Miss Ima's cottage), Ft Richardson, the Zaragoza Birthplace  (Goliad) and a number of non-TPWD sites from the state historical (?) commission. Weren't there a few old cavers at the San Fernando Cathedral job in downtown San Antonio?
 
Ted


Jan 20, 2011 08:21:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
No Michael Boon, Blake Harrison, or other cavers on the TAMU archeology crews at Hinds Cave, just students. I was at A&M in the late 70s and
knew most of the people who had worked there.

During the 70s and 80s, many cavers worked on archeological digs for Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, thanks to Ron Ralph, Rune Burnett,
and Orion Knox who worked there. That's how I got my start in archeology, in 1972 at Hueco Tanks State Park, making $2.50/hr. (The next year I
got a hefty raise, to $2.52/hr). Cavers worked at Hueco Tanks, Fort McKavett, Fort Lancaster, Mission Rosario (near Goliad), Kreishe Brewery
(near La Grange), Fanthorp Inn (Grimes County), McKinney Falls, Enchanted Rock, Seminole Sink ,etc. The work was seasonal, often a couple of
months in the spring and a couple of months in the fall. Perfect for the active caver lifestyle! As soon as the project ended we took all the
money we had saved (wages had increased to $3-$5/hr) and headed off on extended caving trips, usually to Mexico.

I can't remember all of the cavers who worked on these projects, but some of the regulars were Don Broussard, Maureen Cavanaugh, Steve Zeman,
Dino Lowrey, Michael McEachern, and me. Others involved with at least one project include Pete Strickland, Ed Alexander, Tom Byrd, and Ted
Samsell. Apologies to the many I can't remember or didn't work with.

Logan



Mark Minton wrote:
There is a photo of some people working on an an archaeological dig in 1976, and one of them is a "student" named Michael Boon! Is that Mike
Boon the caver? The picture does not show enough to identify the person, but I didn't think he was ever a student in Texas.

Preston Forsythe wrote:
I think the picture looks like Blake, rather than Mike Boon. As far as I know Boon did not do that type of work. Is that Ron in the background?
The entire crew could have been from the 33rd St. caver house in Austin. Notice Dr. Dirt, an armadillo expert, is mentioned. Thanks for the very
interesting link. And, thanks to Logan.

Roger Moore wrote:
I don't know Mike Boon, so I can't comment on the question. But 1976 was close to the peak year for cavers doing archeological field work to
make money between Mexico trips, etc. It is in some ways ideal work for a young, footloose caver. A field tech is usually off in the middle of
nowhere, but getting his/her food and lodging paid for. The work is often physically hard, so good for staying in shape. And there is crossover
with many caving skills such as overland navigation, sketching, and basic map- or plan-making. Sometimes the work actually takes place in a
caving area. But, back then, a field session was ALWAY a party when not hard at work.


Gill Edigar wrote:
Although Boon may have been around Austin on and off around that time,
I'm over 99% certain he didn't work on any digs. That was a Texas A&M
dig an I don't see anybody there that looks like any of the Austin
cave-related diggers of the day--a few of whom I lived with or near.
Logan ought to have a better idea of who would have made up that crew.
Absolutely nobody recognizable to me in any of the pics. Several of
them have on A&I insignia--caps & T-shirts.--Ediger









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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
While stationed at Ft. Bliss during the winter and spring of 1956 a civilian 
kid I met somewhere who had outdoor interests said he would show me something 
cool. The clear spring day was perfect for such a venture. We drove a few miles 
east of El Paso and made a left turn off of the highway onto a dirt and caliche 
road. If there was a fence or gate I don't remember it. A short drive took us 
on the north side of a range of low mountains and cliffs. We climbed around for 
probably three or four hours looking in the many shelter caves and crevasses. 
The ancient and colorful rock art was totally fascinating as were the rock 
formations themselves. Of course, there was also graffiti, some of it from the 
previous century. There was not another soul at this wondrous place known as 
Hueco Tanks, but possibly a few ancient spirits. 

Fritz, reliving the early years.


-----Original Message-----
From: Logan McNatt [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:21 PM
To: Gill Edigar; caverarch; Roger Moore
Cc: Mark Minton; Texascavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: cavers on archeo crews

No Michael Boon, Blake Harrison, or other cavers on the TAMU archeology crews 
at Hinds Cave, just students.  I was at A&M in the late 70s and 
knew most of the people who had worked there.

During the 70s and 80s, many cavers worked on archeological digs for Texas 
Parks and Wildlife Department, thanks to Ron Ralph,  Rune Burnett, 
and Orion Knox who worked there.  That's how I got my start in archeology, in 
1972 at Hueco Tanks State Park, making $2.50/hr.  (The next year I 
got a hefty raise, to $2.52/hr).  Cavers worked at Hueco Tanks,  Fort McKavett, 
Fort Lancaster, Mission Rosario (near Goliad), Kreishe Brewery 
(near La Grange), Fanthorp Inn (Grimes County), McKinney Falls, Enchanted Rock, 
Seminole Sink ,etc.  The work was seasonal, often a couple of 
months in the spring and a couple of months in the fall.  Perfect for the 
active caver lifestyle!  As soon as the project ended we took all the 
money we had saved (wages had increased to $3-$5/hr) and headed off on extended 
caving trips, usually to Mexico.

I can't remember all of the cavers who worked on these projects, but some of 
the regulars were  Don Broussard, Maureen Cavanaugh, Steve Zeman,  
Dino Lowrey, Michael McEachern, and me.  Others involved with at least one 
project include Pete Strickland, Ed Alexander, Tom Byrd, and Ted 
Samsell.  Apologies to the many I can't remember or didn't work with.

Logan



Mark Minton wrote:
There is a photo of some people working on an an archaeological dig in 1976, 
and one of them is a "student" named Michael Boon!  Is that Mike 
Boon the caver?  The picture does not show enough to identify the person, but I 
didn't think he was ever a student in Texas.

Preston Forsythe wrote:
I think the picture looks like Blake, rather than Mike Boon. As far as I know 
Boon did not do that type of work. Is that Ron in the background? 
The entire crew could have been from the 33rd St. caver house in Austin. Notice 
Dr. Dirt, an armadillo expert, is mentioned. Thanks for the very 
interesting link. And, thanks to Logan.

Roger Moore wrote:
I don't know Mike Boon, so I can't comment on the question. But 1976 was close 
to the peak year for cavers doing archeological field work to 
make money between Mexico trips, etc. It is in some ways ideal work for a 
young, footloose caver. A field tech is usually off in the middle of 
nowhere, but getting his/her food and lodging paid for. The work is often 
physically hard, so good for staying in shape. And there is crossover 
with many caving skills such as overland navigation, sketching, and basic map- 
or plan-making. Sometimes the work actually takes place in a 
caving area. But, back then, a field session was ALWAY a party when not hard at 
work.


Gill Edigar wrote:
Although Boon may have been around Austin on and off around that time,
I'm over 99% certain he didn't work on any digs. That was a Texas A&M
dig an I don't see anybody there that looks like any of the Austin
cave-related diggers of the day--a few of whom I lived with or near.
Logan ought to have a better idea of who would have made up that crew.
Absolutely nobody recognizable to me in any of the pics. Several of
them have on A&I insignia--caps & T-shirts.--Ediger









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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Folks,



Thought I would forward this announcement from TAGNET regarding the first 
annual public meeting of the Tennessee Cave and Karst Working Group which will 
be held this Saturday.  While it is a short travel notice (I was going through 
my old TAGNET posts), I think this is an excellent example of public outreach 
regarding caves and karst.  Maybe having a state wide education meeting for the 
general public and caves is something that a Texas caving organization should 
do.



Geary Schindel

Administrative Vice President

National Speleological Society





Note the post from Joe Douglas below.





1)  RE: Tennessee Cave and Karst Working Group Public meeting

      By: Joe Douglas  (Gallatin, Tennessee)

          [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>







Public Meeting - Tennessee Cave and Karst Working Group



The Inn at Fall Creek Falls State Park



January 22, 2011





Please accept this invitation to attend the first annual public meeting of the 
Tennessee Cave and Karst Working Group. The meeting will take place on 
Saturday, January 22, 2011 at the inn at Fall Creek Falls State Park.



The Tennessee Cave and Karst Working Group mission is to increase awareness, 
understanding, and cooperation relating to cave and karst resources in 
Tennessee. Although TN has world class cave and karst resources, the experts, 
enthusiasts, and managers of those resources rarely have a forum to share their 
projects, experiences, or expertise with others. Not only can that sometimes 
lead to poor stewardship, but it also excludes the partnerships that can be 
gained by working together.



This first public meeting will comprise of numerous presentations relating to 
Tennessee's cave and karst resources. While the topics are varied, the overall 
themes relate to conservation, archaeology, historical human use, biology, 
white nose syndrome, photography, and geology/hydrology.



If you have any interest in caves or karst resources in TN, there will be 
something of interest for you at this meeting. We encourage you to come and 
spend a day learning and sharing with us. This is a newly formed group and we 
hope you will come and participate. There will be time for questions and 
discussion after each presentation.



Preliminary Agenda



9:00-9:30 - Morning Social



9:30-9:35 - Cory Holliday - Welcome and Opening Remarks



9:35-9:45 - Gerald Moni - The Tennessee Cave Survey



9:45-10:05 - Maureen Handler - Sera Karst Task Force



10:05 - 10:30 - Jason and Chrissy Richards - Cave Diving Project Update



10:30-10:50 - Dr. Sidney Jones - The State of Karst Hydrology in the Volunteer 
State



10:50-11:00 - Break



11:00-11:25 -David Withers - Karst Dependent Organisms in TN



11:25-11:50 - Kirk Zigler - Cave Invertebrate Project Updates



11:50-12:50 - Lunch (The Inn at FCFSP has a full restaurant and worthwhile 
buffet)



12:50-12:55 - Stuart Carroll - Introduction to the afternoon session



12:55-1:25 - Dr. Joseph Douglas - History in TN Caves: Themes, Resources, and 
Conservation



1:25-1:55 - Annie Blankenship - Archaeological Resources Within TN Caves



1:55-2:25 - Dr. Jan Simek and Alan Cressler - Caves, Karst, and the

Soul: How Karst Features Reflected the Prehistoric Native American Cosmos



2:25-2:35 - Break



2:35-3:00 - John Hoffelt - Implementation of the USFWS National White Nose 
Syndrome Plan



3:00-3:25 - Richie Wyckoff - White Nose Syndrome in Tennessee



3:25-4:00 - Stephen Alvarez - Bat Genocide: Pictures from December's National 
Geographic WNS story

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- To add a note (probably politicially incorrect) about the cavers who used to support their caving habit by working at archaeological sites: I recall they used to refer to themselves as digroes. -- Mixon 
----------------------------------------
A fearless man cannot be brave.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Probably? I love it. My, how times have changed.

Geezer

-----Original Message-----
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 11:56 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] cavers at arch sites

To add a note (probably politicially incorrect) about the cavers who  
used to support their caving habit by working at archaeological sites:  
I recall they used to refer to themselves as digroes. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
A fearless man cannot be brave.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]


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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Amalgamated Digroes it was.

> To add a note (probably politicially incorrect) about the cavers who
> used to support their caving habit by working at archaeological sites:
> I recall they used to refer to themselves as digroes. -- Mixon

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
There was an alternative usage that was marginally less politically correct: 
Anthro-Americans.


Roger





-----Original Message-----
From: Gill Edigar <[email protected]>
To: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
Cc: Mixon Bill <[email protected]>; Cavers Texas 
<[email protected]>; Mandy Holt <[email protected]>; Jenny 
Holt <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2011 7:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] cavers at arch sites


Amalgamated Digroes it was.

> To add a note (probably politicially incorrect) about the cavers who
> used to support their caving habit by working at archaeological sites:
> I recall they used to refer to themselves as digroes. -- Mixon

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Only Facebook matters, since this is what goes into the CIA database.





;-)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Diana Tomchick <[email protected]>
> To: caverarch <[email protected]>
> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:02:18 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Public web site on the TSA Spring Convention
> So what is wrong with updating the TSA web site for the Spring Convention?
> Just send the info to the webmaster.
>
> This should be done regardless of whether there is a Facebook Event page
> for the Convention.
>
> Diana
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Associate Professor
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> Department of Biochemistry
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214B
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
> Email: [email protected]
> 214-645-6383 (phone)
> 214-645-6353 (fax)
>
>
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I thought it would be the FBI, aren't the CIA 'external'?

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 21, 2011, at 12:12 PM, "Simon Newton" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Only Facebook matters, since this is what goes into the CIA database.





;-)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Diana Tomchick 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: caverarch 
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:02:18 +0000
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Public web site on the TSA Spring Convention
So what is wrong with updating the TSA web site for the Spring Convention? Just 
send the info to the webmaster.

This should be done regardless of whether there is a Facebook Event page for 
the Convention.

Diana

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: <mailto:[email protected]> 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)




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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
The manager of Camp Happy Hollow told me Friday afternoon that cavers
can use his beautiful campground again for a caver gathering.

I asked him for the date of Saturday, May 21, and for the exclusive use
of the entire facilities of the camp for a 3 day period that weekend.

He "tentatively" agreed to that.

A realistic goal is to hold an event as successful as the one was
last year.

But it is possible to do much better than that.     For that to happen,
we only need a few more cavers and better food.

For the 20 something cavers that came last year, you will know what
to expect and can help me spread the word about how fun this event
is, and how inexpensive it is.

For the rest of you, here is a aerial view of the campground.

Cut & paste the entire paragraph below into your web-browser's address bar:


http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2#JmNwPTMwLjE3MDYzOTAwMDcyNjAyfi05Ni41MDg3NzY1MDAwMDAwMSZsdmw9MTYmZGlyPTAmc3R5PXImcnRwPXBvcy4zMC4xNzA5M18tOTYuNTA0Njk0XzE5MDAlMjBIYXBweSUyMEhvbGxvdyUyMFJkJTJDJTIwQnJlbmhhbSUyQyUyMFRYJTIwNzc4MzNfX19lX35wb3MuMzAuMTcwMzQ4Xy05Ni41MTI4NTlfMjYwMCUyMEhhcHB5JTIwSG9sbG93JTIwUmQlMkMlMjBCcmVuaGFtJTJDJTIwVFglMjA3NzgzM19fX2VfJm1vZGU9RCZydG9wPTB+MH4wfg==

Wait for all that page to download.

If that loads a map, click on the blue word "Road" at the top right
above the map, and scroll down to "Bird's Eye."

If that loads a photo, the forest and the square next to it is Camp
Happy Hollow, a 60 acre private forest.

Facilities are a lodge, a cabin, a large covered pavilion with
restrooms.    Great hot-water showers, all the water and electricity
provided
for 18 shady spacious campspots each with covered picnic table.
Hopefully we will set up a portable pool again, but that is
a lot of work to take down.

I will be providing tables, chairs, cooking equipment, and a little
bit of food for the main event.
And also, for people that show up with nothing, there will be extra
camping gear, bicycles, etc.


Disclaimer:

Many caver's have a long list of activities planned this spring, and
this event is not trying to
compete with those an any way, shape or form.      It is only a
supplemental activity.     It is open
to anyone that likes cave related topics, not just cavers.


David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County

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Fritz, et al.
The Texas Beyond History website also has a great exhibit on Hueco Tanks! It is a world class rock art site, first publicized in the book /The Rock Art of Texas Indians/ (Kirkland and Newcomb, U.T. Press, 1967) . When I went back there on a project in 1999, TPWD had hired Evelyn Billo and Robert Mark to take digital photographs of "all" the pictographs, and there are thousands of them hidden away under hollow boulders, shelters, alcoves, you name it. Bob and Evelyn were staying in the same motel as our crew, and one night they excitedly called us to their room to see some of the photos. Bob had decided to experiment with digital enhancement (when did PhotoShop come out?), and discovered that many of the rock art panels suddenly exploded with images unseen by the proverbial naked eye. You can see some of the results on: 

Texas Beyond History Hueco Tanks website        
http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/hueco/index.html
[you'll even see some old photos of Ron Ralph, Don Broussard, Steve Zeman & 
Dino Lowrey (with the basin metate), and me]

and on the Rupestrian CyberServices website     http://www.rupestrian.com/
Hueco Tanks is also a world class bouldering site, and therein lies the rub, quite literally. Thousands of boulderers from all over the world were spending the winter there. Unfortunately, many of the pictographs are under overhangs and other places that are also the best places to climb. Many of the pictographs are very difficult to see, and were being heavily impacted, not just by the boulderers, but by picnickers and gang bangers from El Paso and elsewhere who were tagging the rocks with spray paint. The sparse vegetation in the protected areas was also being wiped out. A classic problem with parks: balancing the recreational opportunities with the cultural and natural resources. Something cavers can certainly understand, with fragile caves such as Lechuguilla, Caverns of Sonora, etc. So there were contentious public hearings and angry letters to the editors from both sides. TPWD finally had to limit the number of people who could be in the park at any one time, and restrict or prohibit access to some of the more sensitive areas.
After the news came out about Bob & Evelyn's work, I remember seeing a post on one of the climbing websites that said something like: "Oh great, now they're telling us we can't climb in places where there's rock art you can't even see! Reminds me of the current debates about how to deal with WNS. No easy answers.
Hueco Tanks is a magical place. If you're ever traveling to the El Paso area, Carlsbad, or the Guads, it's worth a stop. Best to contact TPWD first to make reservations. 

Logan



On 1/21/2011 2:40 PM, Fritz Holt wrote:
While stationed at Ft. Bliss during the winter and spring of 1956 a civilian kid I met somewhere who had outdoor interests said he would show me something cool. The clear spring day was perfect for such a venture. We drove a few miles east of El Paso and made a left turn off of the highway onto a dirt and caliche road. If there was a fence or gate I don't remember it. A short drive took us on the north side of a range of low mountains and cliffs. We climbed around for probably three or four hours looking in the many shelter caves and crevasses. The ancient and colorful rock art was totally fascinating as were the rock formations themselves. Of course, there was also graffiti, some of it from the previous century. There was not another soul at this wondrous place known as Hueco Tanks, but possibly a few ancient spirits. 

Fritz, reliving the early years.

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--- Begin Message ---
"...picnickers and gang bangers from El Paso and elsewhere who were tagging the rocks with spray paint."

How much time do you think will have to pass before that spray paint tagging becomes similarly protected and preserved as historically or archeologically significant "rock art"? What are the least old graffiti examples you know of that are now protected and preserved as being historically significant?

Just wondering,
Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: Logan McNatt
Sent: Jan 21, 2011 8:59 PM
To: Fritz Holt
Cc: Texascavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: cavers on archeo crews: Hueco Tanks

Fritz, et al.

The Texas Beyond History website also has a great exhibit on Hueco Tanks!  It is a world class rock art site, first publicized in the book The Rock Art of Texas Indians (Kirkland and Newcomb, U.T. Press, 1967) .  When I went back there on a project in 1999, TPWD had hired Evelyn Billo and Robert Mark to take digital photographs of "all" the pictographs, and there are thousands of them hidden away under hollow boulders, shelters, alcoves, you name it.  Bob and Evelyn were staying in the same motel as our crew, and one night they excitedly called us to their room to see some of the photos.  Bob had decided to experiment with digital enhancement (when did PhotoShop come out?), and discovered that many of the rock art panels suddenly exploded with images unseen by the proverbial naked eye.  You can see some of the results on:

Texas Beyond History Hueco Tanks website        http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/hueco/index.html 
[you'll even see some old photos of Ron Ralph, Don Broussard, Steve Zeman & Dino Lowrey (with the basin metate), and me]

and on the Rupestrian CyberServices website     http://www.rupestrian.com/

Hueco Tanks is also a world class bouldering site, and therein lies the rub, quite literally.  Thousands of boulderers from all over the world were spending the winter there.  Unfortunately, many of the pictographs are under overhangs and other places that are also the best places to climb.  Many of the pictographs are very difficult to see, and were being heavily impacted, not just by the boulderers, but by picnickers and gang bangers from El Paso and elsewhere who were tagging the rocks with spray paint.  The sparse vegetation in the protected areas was also being wiped out.  A classic problem with parks:  balancing the recreational opportunities with the cultural and natural resources.  Something cavers can certainly understand, with fragile caves such as Lechuguilla, Caverns of Sonora, etc.  So there were contentious public hearings and angry letters to the editors from both sides.  TPWD finally had to limit the number of people who could be in the park at any one time, and restrict or prohibit access to some of the more sensitive areas.

After the news came out about Bob & Evelyn's work, I remember seeing a post on one of the climbing websites that said something like:  "Oh great, now they're telling us we can't climb in places where there's rock art you can't even see!  Reminds me of the current debates about how to deal with WNS.  No easy answers.

Hueco Tanks is a magical place.  If you're ever traveling to the El Paso area, Carlsbad, or the Guads, it's worth a stop.  Best to contact TPWD first to make reservations.

Logan



On 1/21/2011 2:40 PM, Fritz Holt wrote:

While stationed at Ft. Bliss during the winter and spring of 1956 a civilian kid I met somewhere who had outdoor interests said he would show me something cool. The clear spring day was perfect for such a venture. We drove a few miles east of El Paso and made a left turn off of the highway onto a dirt and caliche road. If there was a fence or gate I don't remember it. A short drive took us on the north side of a range of low mountains and cliffs. We climbed around for probably three or four hours looking in the many shelter caves and crevasses. The ancient and colorful rock art was totally fascinating as were the rock formations themselves. Of course, there was also graffiti, some of it from the previous century. There was not another soul at this wondrous place known as Hueco Tanks, but possibly a few ancient spirits.

Fritz, reliving the early years.

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--- Begin Message --- 
Each caving organization statewide has published their public
calendar, but I don't see anywhere
where it is all easily condensed to grasp the overall picture of
statewide activities being planned:


Below is an abridged partial list of caving related things going on
between now and the end of May:

Jan.  23       TSA Winter Meeting

Jan.  ?     Deep & Punkin ( I don't see a date )

Jan.  ?     Robber Baron ( I don't see a date )

Feb.  1         Newbie trip to Whirlpool  ( private ?? )

Feb. 5 - 13     Seminar at CBSP

Feb.  5         Longhorn Cavern trip

Feb. 5         TPWD public trip to Kickapoo


Feb. 5 -6     Gov't Canyon Project

Feb.  9         TSS work night

Feb. 11-13    Colorado Bend Project

Feb. 12         TPWD public trip to Kickapoo

Feb. 19         Ezell's Cave Project

Feb. 19         TPWD public trip to Kickapoo

Feb. 22          Airman's Trip ( private ?? )

Feb. 25 - 27     TCC  Winter Conference

Feb.26         TPWD public trip to Kickapoo

March 5th     Gov't Canyon Project

March 5th      Longhorn Caverns work trip

March 9        TSS work night

March 11 - 13    Colorado Bend

March 12 - 20     Spring Break caving expeditions
                           ( Mexico or Guads, etc ?? )

March 12          Frio Bat Flight watch ??
                          ( Turkey hunting season ?? )

March ??      Honeycreek trip

March 22      Whirlpool   ( private ?? )

March 25 - 27     Bracken work project ??

April 1-3        NSS Board of Governors Meeting - Albuquerque, NM

April 2          Longhorn Caverns trip ??


April 1 - 3      TSA Spring Convention

April 8 - 10    Colorado Bend Project

April 9 - 10     Gov't Canyon Project

April  ???        Honeycreek Trip

April 13          TSS work night

April 16           TCC CAVE DAY ( Saturday )

April 19           Whirlpool trip   ( private ?? )

April 22 - 24    Easter caving trips ??

May 7 - 8         Gov't Canyon Project

May ??            Honeycreek trip

May  11            TSS work night

May 13 - 15    Colorado Bend Project

May 14            Public bat tours of Devil's Sinkhole resume ?

May 17            Airmans trip    ( private ?? )

May 21            East Texas Caver's Cookout

May 21            Nature Conservancy trip to EJR Bat Cave

May 28 - 31     Memorial Day trips ??
                        ( 40th Kentucky SpeleoFest )


This list does not count monthly informal digs going on at Kiwi Sink.

Also, there has been mention of commercial trips to help install lighting
at Cascade and Longhorn.

I heard a rumor somewhere of a caving trip to a commercial cave
near Boerne?

>From Facebook reports, various cavers are involved in promising
digs in the hill country, so there could be potential digging trips
going on this spring.

The itinerary above does not include various scientific symposiums
going on around the country that may be of interest to some, nor
the regional caving events across the country.



This doesn't count pay-to-cave commercial trips like:   the Adventure
Tours at NBC, the
Saturday Wild Cave tour at Longhorn Caverns, the Saturday Wild Cave
tour at Inner Space
Caverns, or week-end public nature trips to Westcave Preserve.    I
heard Caverns of
Sonora has a Discovery Challenge Tour that lets the general public rappel into
the infamous Devil's Pit.


Anyone with more accurate information is welcome to re-post this with
corrections
or in a format that is more logical or user-friendly, etc.

Obviously, the schedule above does not include caving trips being
planned individually,
or not being advertised.

In summary, this spring on any given Saturday there could be numerous
opportunities
to get underground or to socialize with cavers.

David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County

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