texascavers Digest 2 Feb 2011 23:27:43 -0000 Issue 1238
Topics (messages 16999 through 17013):
The Sleaze has been machetizado
16999 by: Alex Sproul
Sanctum
17000 by: Kurt L. Menking
17001 by: Tim Stich
17002 by: Speleosteele.aol.com
17003 by: Tim Stich
17012 by: Charles Goldsmith
True Grit related
17004 by: David
17005 by: Don Arburn
17006 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
17007 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
17009 by: Louise Power
17010 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
17011 by: Louise Power
Re: Honeycreek
17008 by: ellie :)
17013 by: Heather Tucek
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Be advised that Mr. Weazel's e-mail account has been hacked, and messages
from it containing curious links should be ignored until he says otherwise --
in his
inimitable way so that we know it's actually him.
Alex
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Several local cavers went to an advanced screening of Sanctum last night.
It was much more like a real caving movie than the other caving related movies
in the last 10 years. At least they didn't have monsters chasing them around
in the dark. It was of course over sensationalizing everything they did.
Every decision was life or death because everyone knows "this cave can kill you
in a heartbeat" and it was his/her choice to do whatever stupid thing that
wound up killing them.
It is not technically accurate in every detail. If it was it would be
sufficiently boring such that no regular person would watch it. But for the
most part they did use common caving lights, helmets, wetsuits, packs, etc. No
ice axes, flare guns, machine guns, etc.
It was entertaining and exciting. The cave passages above and below the water
line were very nice. The 3D effects didn't add all that much to the movie, I
would have preferred just a good HD version. They didn't have many 3D effects
just for the oohs and aahs. The 3D did add a sense of really being there with
the actors at times.
I enjoyed it, will probably see it again, and will certainly buy the DVD when
it comes out.
Kurt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well glad to hear, Kurt. Although I have to laugh that once again you
further the idea that it's impossible to make a film about caving that isn't
"boring" without the kinds of stupid tricks most directors and writers add.
"Touching the Void" for instance adds no extraneous plot devices or bad
acting and it is quite watchable. It just takes some talent to pull it off
and most directors and writers don't possess it.
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Kurt L. Menking <[email protected]> wrote:
> Several local cavers went to an advanced screening of Sanctum last night.
>
>
>
> It was much more like a real caving movie than the other caving related
> movies in the last 10 years. At least they didn’t have monsters chasing
> them around in the dark. It was of course over sensationalizing everything
> they did. Every decision was life or death because everyone knows “this
> cave can kill you in a heartbeat” and it was his/her choice to do whatever
> stupid thing that wound up killing them.
>
>
>
> It is not technically accurate in every detail. If it was it would be
> sufficiently boring such that no regular person would watch it. But for the
> most part they did use common caving lights, helmets, wetsuits, packs, etc.
> No ice axes, flare guns, machine guns, etc.
>
>
>
> It was entertaining and exciting. The cave passages above and below the
> water line were very nice. The 3D effects didn’t add all that much to the
> movie, I would have preferred just a good HD version. They didn’t have many
> 3D effects just for the oohs and aahs. The 3D did add a sense of really
> being there with the actors at times.
>
>
>
> I enjoyed it, will probably see it again, and will certainly buy the DVD
> when it comes out.
>
>
>
> Kurt
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree with Tim about the movie "Touching the Void." I own a copy on DVD
and it's one of my favorites.
A good caving movie remains to be made along the same lines. Sanctum is not
that movie.
I even have used "Touching the Void" in my job to make the point of the
differences between Strategy, Tactics, and Execution. It's fun to do with a
management group.
Bill
In a message dated 2/2/2011 11:05:13 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Well glad to hear, Kurt. Although I have to laugh that once again you
further the idea that it's impossible to make a film about caving that isn't
"boring" without the kinds of stupid tricks most directors and writers add.
"Touching the Void" for instance adds no extraneous plot devices or bad acting
and it is quite watchable. It just takes some talent to pull it off and most
directors and writers don't possess it.
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Kurt L. Menking <[email protected]_
(mailto:[email protected]) > wrote:
Several local cavers went to an advanced screening of Sanctum last night.
It was much more like a real caving movie than the other caving related
movies in the last 10 years. At least they didn’t have monsters chasing them
around in the dark. It was of course over sensationalizing everything they
did. Every decision was life or death because everyone knows “this cave can
kill you in a heartbeat” and it was his/her choice to do whatever stupid
thing that wound up killing them.
It is not technically accurate in every detail. If it was it would be
sufficiently boring such that no regular person would watch it. But for the
most
part they did use common caving lights, helmets, wetsuits, packs, etc. No
ice axes, flare guns, machine guns, etc.
It was entertaining and exciting. The cave passages above and below the
water line were very nice. The 3D effects didn’t add all that much to the
movie, I would have preferred just a good HD version. They didn’t have many 3D
effects just for the oohs and aahs. The 3D did add a sense of really being
there with the actors at times.
I enjoyed it, will probably see it again, and will certainly buy the DVD
when it comes out.
Kurt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See, the real story behind the embellished one of Sanctum would have more
than likely made a really good film. I hear that "148 Hours" is also quite
good about Aaron Ralston's entrapment in the Utah slot canyon. But selling
that to a producer isn't easy.
What's nice now is that some adventurers are funding the film versions of
their stories with micro donation sites. Jeff Lowe is doing that for his
amazing route on the Eiger, Metanoia.
http://jefflowemovie.com/
In any case, remember the film "Cliffhanger" with Stalone? That started out
as a true story of a dope runner plane crash in Yosemite. Not much remained
after it was optioned.
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> I agree with Tim about the movie "Touching the Void." I own a copy on DVD
> and it's one of my favorites.
> A good caving movie remains to be made along the same lines. Sanctum is not
> that movie.
>
> I even have used "Touching the Void" in my job to make the point of the
> differences between Strategy, Tactics, and Execution. It's fun to do with a
> management group.
>
> Bill
>
> In a message dated 2/2/2011 11:05:13 AM Central Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> Well glad to hear, Kurt. Although I have to laugh that once again you
> further the idea that it's impossible to make a film about caving that isn't
> "boring" without the kinds of stupid tricks most directors and writers add.
> "Touching the Void" for instance adds no extraneous plot devices or bad
> acting and it is quite watchable. It just takes some talent to pull it off
> and most directors and writers don't possess it.
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Kurt L. Menking <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Several local cavers went to an advanced screening of Sanctum last
>> night.
>>
>>
>>
>> It was much more like a real caving movie than the other caving related
>> movies in the last 10 years. At least they didn’t have monsters chasing
>> them around in the dark. It was of course over sensationalizing everything
>> they did. Every decision was life or death because everyone knows “this
>> cave can kill you in a heartbeat” and it was his/her choice to do whatever
>> stupid thing that wound up killing them.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is not technically accurate in every detail. If it was it would be
>> sufficiently boring such that no regular person would watch it. But for the
>> most part they did use common caving lights, helmets, wetsuits, packs, etc.
>> No ice axes, flare guns, machine guns, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> It was entertaining and exciting. The cave passages above and below the
>> water line were very nice. The 3D effects didn’t add all that much to the
>> movie, I would have preferred just a good HD version. They didn’t have many
>> 3D effects just for the oohs and aahs. The 3D did add a sense of really
>> being there with the actors at times.
>>
>>
>>
>> I enjoyed it, will probably see it again, and will certainly buy the DVD
>> when it comes out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
148 hours is good, saw that in the theatre, very graphic though, made me
cringe a few times.
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Tim Stich <[email protected]> wrote:
> See, the real story behind the embellished one of Sanctum would have more
> than likely made a really good film. I hear that "148 Hours" is also quite
> good about Aaron Ralston's entrapment in the Utah slot canyon. But selling
> that to a producer isn't easy.
>
> What's nice now is that some adventurers are funding the film versions of
> their stories with micro donation sites. Jeff Lowe is doing that for his
> amazing route on the Eiger, Metanoia.
>
> http://jefflowemovie.com/
>
> In any case, remember the film "Cliffhanger" with Stalone? That started out
> as a true story of a dope runner plane crash in Yosemite. Not much remained
> after it was optioned.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Tim about the movie "Touching the Void." I own a copy on
>> DVD and it's one of my favorites.
>> A good caving movie remains to be made along the same lines. Sanctum is
>> not that movie.
>>
>> I even have used "Touching the Void" in my job to make the point of the
>> differences between Strategy, Tactics, and Execution. It's fun to do with a
>> management group.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> In a message dated 2/2/2011 11:05:13 AM Central Standard Time,
>> [email protected] writes:
>>
>> Well glad to hear, Kurt. Although I have to laugh that once again you
>> further the idea that it's impossible to make a film about caving that isn't
>> "boring" without the kinds of stupid tricks most directors and writers add.
>> "Touching the Void" for instance adds no extraneous plot devices or bad
>> acting and it is quite watchable. It just takes some talent to pull it off
>> and most directors and writers don't possess it.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Kurt L. Menking <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Several local cavers went to an advanced screening of Sanctum last
>>> night.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It was much more like a real caving movie than the other caving related
>>> movies in the last 10 years. At least they didn’t have monsters chasing
>>> them around in the dark. It was of course over sensationalizing everything
>>> they did. Every decision was life or death because everyone knows “this
>>> cave can kill you in a heartbeat” and it was his/her choice to do whatever
>>> stupid thing that wound up killing them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is not technically accurate in every detail. If it was it would be
>>> sufficiently boring such that no regular person would watch it. But for the
>>> most part they did use common caving lights, helmets, wetsuits, packs, etc.
>>> No ice axes, flare guns, machine guns, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It was entertaining and exciting. The cave passages above and below the
>>> water line were very nice. The 3D effects didn’t add all that much to the
>>> movie, I would have preferred just a good HD version. They didn’t have many
>>> 3D effects just for the oohs and aahs. The 3D did add a sense of really
>>> being there with the actors at times.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I enjoyed it, will probably see it again, and will certainly buy the DVD
>>> when it comes out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kurt
>>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This posting contains movie spoilers.
Take a look at Rooster's rope at the beginning of the journey.
Standard coil of cowboy rope. About 20' and 3/8" or so.
( He uses it superstitiously, to scare away snakes as he sleeps. )
Then take a look at the rope during the cave rescue scene.
Not only is he rappelling down a 30 foot slope, but the horse he
is tied to is about 30 feet from the cave. Meaning he suddenly had
about 80 feet of rope.
I think the rope looks 1/2" Goldline in the cave.
Also, I think as the girl falls into the pit the entrance is about 5 foot wide
and only 3 foot tall, but when she is on the ledge 30 foot below the entrance
looks to be about 20 foot wide and 5 foot tall, certainly big enough for Rooster
to rappel in.
Rooster shot at least 3 rattlers while on rappel. Any caver ever done that?
She took a nasty fall down the cave, and would have probably had been to
injured to assist the rescuer in rescuing her. Supposedly a vine
or root, rescued
her fall, but pine trees don't have vines or roots.
The directors should have introduced the cave into the movie, by showing the
gang throwing their dead guy down the pit. It seemed stupid for the girl to
fall into the cave unexpectedly. That part didn't flow with the plot line.
During the snake scene, the sun was shining directly down the pit, but during
the scene where she fell, the sun was off to the side. Meaning, it
should have
been darker in the cave. I doubt there would have been enough light to shoot
snakes, especially without hitting the girl.
There were other major flaws with the story, like how fast Rooster was able to
get from the valley up to the cave and on rope, when he didn't even
know she was down
there. And while he was on rope, Ranger LaBeouf, suddenly was
assisting with the cave rescue by
controlling the horse, when he had just been knocked unconscious with
a huge rock to the
back of the head.
So, I think the movie is over-rated.
Except for the gun-fights the movie is viewable for older kids.
They could have easily
made this movie where you would not want your kids to watch it. For
example, the
bad guys never laid a hand on the young girl when they had plenty of
opportunities.
Wait till it comes out on DVD, or see it at a discount price.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"but pine trees don't have vines or roots."
WTF!? No ROOTS!? Are you sure? Last time I checked trees held themselves to
the earth, to keep them from flying off into space from centrifugal force of
the Earth's rotation, by roots.
Don's iPhone.
On Feb 2, 2011, at 2:45 PM, David <[email protected]> wrote:
> but pine trees don't have vines or roots.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As they say in Arkansas:
"Root hog, or die!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1cANQc5sMc
Feb 2, 2011 02:52:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
"but pine trees don't have vines or roots."
WTF!? No ROOTS!? Are you sure? Last time I checked trees held themselves to the earth, to keep them from flying off into space from centrifugal force of the Earth's rotation, by roots.
Don's iPhone. but pine trees don't have vines or roots.
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The real TRUE GRIT-- (John Wayne version) pretended that Colorado was Eastern Oklahoma.
T.
Feb 2, 2011 02:52:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
"but pine trees don't have vines or roots."
WTF!? No ROOTS!? Are you sure? Last time I checked trees held themselves to the earth, to keep them from flying off into space from centrifugal force of the Earth's rotation, by roots.
Don's iPhone. but pine trees don't have vines or roots.
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David said: "Rooster shot at least 3 rattlers while on rappel. Any caver ever
done that?"
I don't know about rattlers, but on one trip out to a ranch near Copperas Cove,
the rancher mentioned that he'd had trouple with porcupines chewing up his
fenceposts. So Jon Everage took a pistol, crawled down the porky's hole and
shot it...forgetting, of course, that he was in really close confines. He was
deaf for a few hours after that. Somewhere I have some slides of him crawling
down the hole (one with just the bottom of his boots showing) and some with the
porky.
Louise
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know many of us are in inclement weather lockdown but let's not start that
"guns in caves" thread again.
Andy
dum spiro spero
________________________________
From: Louise Power <[email protected]>
To: Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 3:54:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] True Grit related
David said: "Rooster shot at least 3 rattlers while on rappel. Any caver ever
done that?"
I don't know about rattlers, but on one trip out to a ranch near Copperas Cove,
the rancher mentioned that he'd had trouple with porcupines chewing up his
fenceposts. So Jon Everage took a pistol, crawled down the porky's hole and
shot
it...forgetting, of course, that he was in really close confines. He was deaf
for a few hours after that. Somewhere I have some slides of him crawling down
the hole (one with just the bottom of his boots showing) and some with the
porky.
Louise
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Twasn't in a cave, twas in a porky hole. We were, however, on a caving trip.
But you're right, he had the gun nevertheless.
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:05:46 -0800
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] True Grit related
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
I know many of us are in inclement weather lockdown but let's not start that
"guns in caves" thread again.
Andy
dum spiro spero
From: Louise Power <[email protected]>
To: Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 3:54:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] True Grit related
David said: "Rooster shot at least 3 rattlers while on rappel. Any caver ever
done that?"
I don't know about rattlers, but on one trip out to a ranch near Copperas Cove,
the rancher mentioned that he'd had trouple with porcupines chewing up his
fenceposts. So Jon Everage took a pistol, crawled down the porky's hole and
shot it...forgetting, of course, that he was in really close confines. He was
deaf for a few hours after that. Somewhere I have some slides of him crawling
down the hole (one with just the bottom of his boots showing) and some with the
porky.
Louise
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to everyone who came out...it was a blast! I even got to introduce my
best friend from Arkansas to Texas Caving this weekend :)
Here is a link to a panoramic entrance photo from this weekend taken by
Galen Falgout:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bYivM1E31ptTjrkpwk7ftA?feat=directlink
Thanks so much to the following folks for leading trips:
Kurt Menking
Heather Tucek
Andy Zenker
Sandy Calhoun
Drew Wendeborn
Geary Schindel
Rob Bissett
Tom Florer
Aarron Wertheim
Gary Franklin
Of the 83 cavers who signed in to the cave on Saturday, Patrick Olsen from
Austin, Texas was the only poor guy who didn't sign out and I am posting
names as promised.
Ellie
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Kurt L. Menking <[email protected]> wrote:
> My hats off to Ellie for getting the word out and motivating cavers from
> all over the state to come out to Honeycreek cave this weekend. Don Brusard
> and Kitty, and others helped run the tractor to get everyone in and out
> safely. It was largely a cat hearding exercise Saturday morning, but once
> everyone was in the cave everything seemed to go smoothly.
>
>
>
> We had 83 people go caving in Honeycreek Saturday. 83 people signed the
> log sheet, and 82 people signed out. The one who didn’t sign out was hunted
> down by cell phone and tongue lashed appropriately. We also had at least
> 3-6 surface people out during the day, so we had very close to 90 folks on
> the property.
>
>
>
> I don’t know the exact numbers but about 60 folks did through trips. Half
> went in at the spring, and half went in at the shaft. The groups were
> staggered and while there were a few bottle necks here and there they were
> not a big deal. One group did the through trip in 2 hours and 45 minutes.
> And one of those guys had only one flipper (he was the one setting the
> blistering pace).
>
>
>
> Another large group did the trip up the QA to the pretty walking section.
>
>
>
> And Ed, Mallory, Ellie, and others did the push to the end of the Mile
> Crawl passage.
>
>
>
> All in all a great weekend. I‘m not sure we had this many people in the
> cave at TCR.
>
>
>
> I know lots of photos were taken, so some of you need to send Mark your
> pics with a trip report. It was an epic weekend.
>
>
>
> Kurt
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andy Gluesenkamp was a leader too...
And apparently Leah had a great birthday in the cave!
On 2 February 2011 15:47, ellie :) <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who came out...it was a blast! I even got to introduce
> my best friend from Arkansas to Texas Caving this weekend :)
>
> Here is a link to a panoramic entrance photo from this weekend taken by
> Galen Falgout:
> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bYivM1E31ptTjrkpwk7ftA?feat=directlink
>
> Thanks so much to the following folks for leading trips:
> Kurt Menking
> Heather Tucek
> Andy Zenker
> Sandy Calhoun
> Drew Wendeborn
> Geary Schindel
> Rob Bissett
> Tom Florer
> Aarron Wertheim
> Gary Franklin
>
> Of the 83 cavers who signed in to the cave on Saturday, Patrick Olsen from
> Austin, Texas was the only poor guy who didn't sign out and I am posting
> names as promised.
>
> Ellie
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Kurt L. Menking <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My hats off to Ellie for getting the word out and motivating cavers from
>> all over the state to come out to Honeycreek cave this weekend. Don Brusard
>> and Kitty, and others helped run the tractor to get everyone in and out
>> safely. It was largely a cat hearding exercise Saturday morning, but once
>> everyone was in the cave everything seemed to go smoothly.
>>
>>
>>
>> We had 83 people go caving in Honeycreek Saturday. 83 people signed the
>> log sheet, and 82 people signed out. The one who didn’t sign out was hunted
>> down by cell phone and tongue lashed appropriately. We also had at least
>> 3-6 surface people out during the day, so we had very close to 90 folks on
>> the property.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t know the exact numbers but about 60 folks did through trips. Half
>> went in at the spring, and half went in at the shaft. The groups were
>> staggered and while there were a few bottle necks here and there they were
>> not a big deal. One group did the through trip in 2 hours and 45 minutes.
>> And one of those guys had only one flipper (he was the one setting the
>> blistering pace).
>>
>>
>>
>> Another large group did the trip up the QA to the pretty walking section.
>>
>>
>>
>> And Ed, Mallory, Ellie, and others did the push to the end of the Mile
>> Crawl passage.
>>
>>
>>
>> All in all a great weekend. I‘m not sure we had this many people in the
>> cave at TCR.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know lots of photos were taken, so some of you need to send Mark your
>> pics with a trip report. It was an epic weekend.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>
>
--
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
[email protected]
--- End Message ---
