texascavers Digest 10 Feb 2011 17:26:07 -0000 Issue 1243

Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:32:30 -0800 (PST) 

texascavers Digest 10 Feb 2011 17:26:07 -0000 Issue 1243

Topics (messages 17094 through 17109):

Re: Custom Duo inserts
        17094 by: David Ochel

The Underground Moon
        17095 by: Mark Minton

Re: Sten Charger
        17096 by: Mark Minton
        17098 by: Mark Minton

slide show
        17097 by: Sam Young

TSS work session
        17099 by: Ron Ralph

WNS found in North Carolina :
        17100 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com

Bear Grylls related
        17101 by: David
        17102 by: Daniel Morgan
        17104 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
        17108 by: Fritz Holt
        17109 by: Bill Bentley

Re: [Allcavers] [Texascavers] Custom Duo inserts
        17103 by: Diana Tomchick

Re: fall factor
        17105 by: Mark Minton

TAG-Net responses to my Sanctum review
        17106 by: Speleosteele.aol.com

Re: Sanctum
        17107 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message --- 
Hi,

It also seems worth noting that they sell a 12V car charger with a Sten
battery adapter!

Cheers,
David

On 2/8/11 7:10 PM, Diana Tomchick wrote:
> If you believe the StenLight fact sheet at
> 
> http://www.stenlight.com/fact-sheet.htm
> 
> then the CustomDuo inserts compare favorably to the StenLight S7, which 
> estimates 140 lumens on the highest setting, and lasts for 2 hours with the 
> fully charged StenLight (LG723) 2.3 AH 7.4V lithium ion battery. According to 
> the CustomDuo web site, the CustomDUO modules are regulated to run at 350 mA 
> and output 140 lumens for the XPG R5 LED. The web site claims that 4 AA 
> batteries will power the light for about 6 hours on the high setting (350 
> mA). They suggest you use Sanyo Eneloop rechargeable AA batteries (2000 mAH 
> per cell) rather than alkalines.
> 
> It seems that the reason these Duo inserts are now available is that the Cree 
> XPG LEDs are more efficient (thus generate less heat) than older LEDs. The 
> Duo headlamp wasn't originally designed with a big heatsink in the lamp. The 
> higher efficiency also means that it's reasonable to use the stock Duo 
> battery packs and rechargeable NiMH batteries.
> 
> Since I typically use a four "C"-cell belt pack (with 5000 mAh per 
> rechargeable NiMH cell) for my Duo, in theory I could run one of these 
> modules for about ten times that amount of time (around 60 hours) on the high 
> (350 mA) setting.
> 
> Still not as many lumens as my Scurion, but a worthy upgrade to my second 
> light nonetheless,
> 
> Diana
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Associate Professor
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> Department of Biochemistry
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214B 
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.   
> Email: [email protected]
> 214-645-6383 (phone)
> 214-645-6353 (fax)
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 8, 2011, at 11:16 AM, caverarch wrote:
> 
>> Diana, I see that it will even work for folks old enough to still have a 
>> Halogen version of the Duo in their equipment stashes.  I think I'll go for 
>> it, though I have never set up a PayPal account.  
>>
>> How do you think it would compare with a Sten?
>>
>> Roger Moore
>> Houston
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Diana Tomchick <[email protected]>
>> To: Cave Tex <[email protected]>; Metroplexcavers 
>> <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:48 am
>> Subject: [Texascavers] Custom Duo inserts
>>
>> This may be old news to those who religiously read the NSS Cave Forum ("Cave 
>> Chat"), but there is an interesting new LED module being sold for the Petzl 
>> Duo 
>> 14- or 8-LED headlamps:
>>
>>
>> http://customduo.co.uk/customduo.aspx
>>
>>
>> These modules use Cree XPG LEDs (your choice of the R5 or R4), and you have 
>> a 
>> choice of replacing just the side spot (the halogen bulb) or both the side 
>> spot 
>> and the original LED module. Lumen ratings range from 110 to 280 depending 
>> upon 
>> configuration. Prices range from 28 to 44 English pounds ($45 - 71), 
>> international shipping is free (for now). Payment is via PayPal.
>>
>> This may be an inexpensive way to upgrade your old Petzl Duo headlamp into 
>> something much brighter (and a lot sturdier and more waterproof) than many 
>> of 
>> the Princeton Tec headlamps currently available (such as the notoriously 
>> finicky 
>> Apex).
>>
>> Diana
>>
>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>> Diana R. Tomchick
>> Associate Professor
>> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
>> Department of Biochemistry
>> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
>> Rm. ND10.214B
>> Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
>> Email: 
>> [email protected]
>>
>> 214-645-6383 (phone)
>> 214-645-6353 (fax)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> UT Southwestern Medical Center
>> The future of medicine, today.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit our website: 
>> http://texascavers.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>> [email protected]
>>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: 
>> [email protected]
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> 

-- 
David Ochel, mailto:[email protected]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Here is a short compilation of recent photos of pits on the moon. <http://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/the-underground-moon#more-6720>. There is also a link to a scientific paper about them. 

Mark Minton

Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
David,
That's great news if so. Where have you seen a 12-v car charger for a Sten? We've been after them for a long time to make such a charger, but it still says under development on their web site <http://www.stenlight.com/products.htm> (near bottom of page). 

Mark Minton

At 10:44 PM 2/8/2011, David Ochel wrote:

It also seems worth noting that they sell a 12V car charger with a Sten
battery adapter!


Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Doh! I thought David was referring to the Sten link in your previous message. Thanks! 

Mark

At 11:57 AM 2/9/2011, Diana Tomchick wrote:

It's on the CustomDUO web site:

http://customduo.co.uk/default.aspx

Diana

On Feb 9, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Mark Minton wrote:

> David,
>
> That's great news if so. Where have you seen a 12-v car charger for a Sten? We've been after them for a long time to make such a charger, but it still says under development on their web site <http://www.stenlight.com/products.htm> (near bottom of page). 
>
> Mark Minton
>
> At 10:44 PM 2/8/2011, David Ochel wrote:
>> It also seems worth noting that they sell a 12V car charger with a Sten
>> battery adapter!


Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
A noncaver photographer friend of mine sent me this slide show of caves from 
around the world.  Maybe you have seen it.  I found the link but I could not 
get the sound to work.  There might be an interface page.  If so, click on view.

http://cid-32d3c06db7413d36.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Allegati/Presentazioni/FotoInsolite/zVoyageaucentredelaterre.pps

.......... Sam

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Cavers,

 

Postpone all activities tonight. Too cold.

 

Ron

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
    Bat Fungus Found in  Avery   
(http://www.goblueridge.net/index.php?view=article&catid=1&id=11228:bat-fungus-found-in-avery&format=pdf&option=com_con
tent)   
(http://www.goblueridge.net/index.php?view=article&catid=1&id=11228:bat-fungus-found-in-avery&tmpl=component&print=1&layout=default&page=&option
=com_content)   
(http://www.goblueridge.net/index.php?option=com_mailto&tmpl=component&link=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5nb2JsdWVyaWRnZS5uZXQvaW5kZXgucGhwP29wdGlvbj1j
b21fY29udGVudCZ2aWV3PWFydGljbGUmaWQ9MTEyMjg6YmF0LWZ1bmd1cy1mb3VuZC1pbi1hdmVy
eSZjYXRpZD0x)     Written by Steve Frank    Wednesday, 09 February 2011 
10:31 AM    
(http://www.goblueridge.net/images/stories/2011news/bat%20fungus%20in%20avery1.jpg)
  
White-nose syndrome, the disease that has killed hundreds of thousands  of 
bats in the Eastern United States, has been discovered in a retired  Avery 
County mine and in a cave at Grandfather Mountain State Park,  marking the 
arrival of the disease in North Carolina.  
(http://www.goblueridge.net/images/stories/2011news/bat%20researcher.jpg) 
“White-nose syndrome is confirmed in 
Virginia and  Tennessee, so we expected we would be one of the next states 
to see the  disease,” said Gabrielle Graeter, a biologist with the N.C. 
Wildlife  Resources Commission. “This discovery marks the arrival of one of the 
most  devastating threats to bat conservation in our time.”

Although  scientists have yet to fully understand white-nose syndrome, 
current  knowledge indicates it’s likely caused by a newly discovered fungus,  
Geomyces destructans , which often grows into white tufts on the muzzles  of 
infected bats, hence the disease’s name. The first evidence of this  fungus 
was collected in a New York state cave in 2006. Since then, it  appears to 
have spread north into Canada and as far south as Tennessee,  which reported 
its first occurrence last winter, and now North Carolina.  In the Northeast, 
the disease has decimated some species of bats. It seems  to be most fatal 
during the winter months, when hundreds of bats are  hibernating together in 
caves and mines. It’s not known if the disease  will similarly affect all 
species in all regions of the country, though  bat mortality and the 
diversity of species affected in the Northeast  suggest the impacts will be 
significant.

On Feb. 1, a team of  Commission biologists were conducting a bat inventory 
of the closed mine  where they saw numerous bats displaying symptomatic 
white patches of  fungus on their skin. Five bats from the mine were sent to 
the  Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study unit at the University of 
 Georgia for testing, which confirmed the presence of white-nose syndrome.  

In late January, a team of state, federal, and private biologists  were 
conducting a bat inventory of a cave at Grandfather Mountain when  they 
discovered a single dead bat. Following state white-nose syndrome  surveillance 
protocols, the bat was sent for testing and it has been  confirmed for 
white-nose syndrome.  

The discovery of  white-nose syndrome comes as Commission biologists work 
through bat  inventory and white-nose syndrome surveillance efforts at 
numerous caves  and mines in western North Carolina this winter as part of a 
grant 
awarded  by the Service to several states on the leading edge of the disease
’s  spread.

North Carolina is home to three federally endangered bats,  the Virginia 
big-eared, Indiana, and gray. Virginia big-eared bats are  known from the 
Grandfather Mountain cave and have been seen in the Avery  county mine, though 
not recently. Thus far, the disease has not been  observed in Virginia 
big-eared bats farther north, however it has greatly  impacted Indiana bat 
populations at infected caves and mines. Both of the  North Carolina sites have 
Eastern small-footed, little brown, Northern  long-eared, and tri-colored bats 
while big brown bats are also found at  the mine – all bat species that have 
been affected to some degree by  white-nose syndrome in the Northeast.

“The discovery does not bode  well for the future of many species of bats 
in western North Carolina,”  said Sue Cameron with the U.S. Fish & Wildlife 
Service. “Although  researchers are working hard to learn more about the 
disease, right now so  little is known. There has been some evidence that 
humans 
may  inadvertently spread the disease from cave to cave, so one simple step 
 people can take to help bats is to stay out of caves and  mines.”

“Cavers are passionate about what they do and we truly  understand that 
asking them to stay out of caves is no small request and  we greatly appreciate 
their sacrifice,” said Cameron, noting that the  western North Carolina 
caving club, Flittermouse Grotto, has been very  supportive of efforts to 
protect the area’s bats.

In 2009, fearing  the disease could be transferred from cave to cave by 
humans, the Service  released a cave advisory asking people to refrain from 
entering caves in  states where white-nose syndrome has been confirmed and all 
adjoining  states. The North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission holds a  
protective easement on the mine and both it and the Grandfather Mountain  
cave have been gated and closed to the public for years to protect  
hibernating bats.   
Last Updated on Wednesday, 09 February 2011 10:43 AM 
 
_http://www.goblueridge.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=112
28:bat-fungus-found-in-avery&catid=1_ 
(http://www.goblueridge.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11228:bat-fungus-found-in-avery&catid=1)

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I can't remember if there is anyone on CaveTex that is a fan of Bear
Grylls, but he now
has teamed up with Gerber Company for a new line of knives and other
outdoor gear.

     http://bear.gerbergear.com/products/

Fry's is now carrying some of his products.

Whether you like him or not, his name is now going to be associated
with survival gear,
like Eddie Bauer is to outdoor clothing.

It appears to me, the consumer will pay about $ 10 more to have a
Gerber product that
has existed for years, but now be available with the orange stripe on
the handle and
the letters BG on it.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Is it +1 vs Bats?

Bear Grylls Bat Tennis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK0VzrQvS8o
Bear Grylls "I HATE BATS!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y0K6FTuVQY

-Daniel

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:43 PM, David <[email protected]> wrote:

> I can't remember if there is anyone on CaveTex that is a fan of Bear
> Grylls, but he now
> has teamed up with Gerber Company for a new line of knives and other
> outdoor gear.
>
>     http://bear.gerbergear.com/products/
>
> Fry's is now carrying some of his products.
>
> Whether you like him or not, his name is now going to be associated
> with survival gear,
> like Eddie Bauer is to outdoor clothing.
>
> It appears to me, the consumer will pay about $ 10 more to have a
> Gerber product that
> has existed for years, but now be available with the orange stripe on
> the handle and
> the letters BG on it.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Just like back in the day, you could get a gin-you-wine RAMBO™ knife?

Wheedoggies. Goes with my Red Ryder BB gun.

T


Feb 9, 2011 10:44:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
I can't remember if there is anyone on CaveTex that is a fan of Bear
Grylls, but he now
has teamed up with Gerber Company for a new line of knives and other
outdoor gear.

http://bear.gerbergear.com/products/

Fry's is now carrying some of his products.

Whether you like him or not, his name is now going to be associated
with survival gear,
like Eddie Bauer is to outdoor clothing.

It appears to me, the consumer will pay about $ 10 more to have a
Gerber product that
has existed for years, but now be available with the orange stripe on
the handle and
the letters BG on it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
WATCH OUT! My daughters and I own Red Ryder BB guns. We shoot holes in cans, 
not birds or other creatures.
I am a Bee Gee fan. They make good music.

Fritz

________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls related

Just like back in the day, you could get a gin-you-wine RAMBO(tm) knife?

Wheedoggies. Goes with my Red Ryder BB gun.

T


Feb 9, 2011 10:44:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
I can't remember if there is anyone on CaveTex that is a fan of Bear
Grylls, but he now
has teamed up with Gerber Company for a new line of knives and other
outdoor gear.

http://bear.gerbergear.com/products/

Fry's is now carrying some of his products.

Whether you like him or not, his name is now going to be associated
with survival gear,
like Eddie Bauer is to outdoor clothing.

It appears to me, the consumer will pay about $ 10 more to have a
Gerber product that
has existed for years, but now be available with the orange stripe on
the handle and
the letters BG on it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our 
website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
[email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: 
[email protected]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
You'll shoot your eye out.

Fritz Holt <[email protected]> wrote:

>WATCH OUT! My daughters and I own Red Ryder BB guns. We shoot holes in cans, 
>not birds or other creatures.
>I am a Bee Gee fan. They make good music.
>
>Fritz
>
>________________________________
>From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:55 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Cc: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls related
>
>Just like back in the day, you could get a gin-you-wine RAMBO(tm) knife?
>
>Wheedoggies. Goes with my Red Ryder BB gun.
>
>T
>
>
>Feb 9, 2011 10:44:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>I can't remember if there is anyone on CaveTex that is a fan of Bear
>Grylls, but he now
>has teamed up with Gerber Company for a new line of knives and other
>outdoor gear.
>
>http://bear.gerbergear.com/products/
>
>Fry's is now carrying some of his products.
>
>Whether you like him or not, his name is now going to be associated
>with survival gear,
>like Eddie Bauer is to outdoor clothing.
>
>It appears to me, the consumer will pay about $ 10 more to have a
>Gerber product that
>has existed for years, but now be available with the orange stripe on
>the handle and
>the letters BG on it.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit 
>our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>[email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: 
>[email protected]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
>From Inner Mountain Outfitters: Duo with helmet mount battery pack is $155, 
>with belt mount battery pack it's $160.

The 14-LED module is $85 (for upgrades to really old 8-LED or 5-LED Duos), so 
this set of upgrades is comparable in price.

How old is your Duo, if it cost less than $77 it must be ancient. My first one 
cost over $100 and that one's 9 years old now.

The exchange rate doesn't favor the dollar like it used to, so these foreign 
lights are expensive.

$77 is still a lot less money than a new Stenlight or a Scurion...

Diana 

**************************************************
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
Department of Biochemistry
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
[email protected]
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)
________________________________________
From: [email protected] 
[[email protected]] on behalf of John Brooks 
[[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:53 PM
To: caverarch
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Allcavers] [Texascavers] Custom Duo inserts

Looks like a great product....but it costs more than my petzl duo cost 
new....44 pounds is around 77 USD.
How much do new duos cost now?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 8, 2011, at 11:16 AM, caverarch 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Diana, I see that it will even work for folks old enough to still have a 
Halogen version of the Duo in their equipment stashes.  I think I'll go for it, 
though I have never set up a PayPal account.

How do you think it would compare with a Sten?

Roger Moore
Houston



-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Tomchick 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: Cave Tex <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; 
Metroplexcavers 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Tue, Feb 8, 2011 10:48 am
Subject: [Texascavers] Custom Duo inserts


This may be old news to those who religiously read the NSS Cave Forum ("Cave
Chat"), but there is an interesting new LED module being sold for the Petzl Duo
14- or 8-LED headlamps:

<http://customduo.co.uk/customduo.aspx>http://customduo.co.uk/customduo.aspx

These modules use Cree XPG LEDs (your choice of the R5 or R4), and you have a
choice of replacing just the side spot (the halogen bulb) or both the side spot
and the original LED module. Lumen ratings range from 110 to 280 depending upon
configuration. Prices range from 28 to 44 English pounds ($45 - 71),
international shipping is free (for now). Payment is via PayPal.

This may be an inexpensive way to upgrade your old Petzl Duo headlamp into
something much brighter (and a lot sturdier and more waterproof) than many of
the Princeton Tec headlamps currently available (such as the notoriously finicky
Apex).

Diana

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: <mailto:[email protected]> 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)




________________________________

UT Southwestern Medical Center
The future of medicine, today.

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Fall factors are by definition dynamic shock loads. The tests on cows tails and slings that I posted were definitely done on dynamic falls, not static pulls. 

Mark Minton

At 12:45 PM 2/7/2011, James McLane wrote:
Material tests on rope, cord, webbing and even tensile tests on metal are done in tension machines that apply a relatively low rate of strain (displacement) until the breaking point is reached. It is often the case that materials will exhibit different ultimate strengths (often higher strengths) when the load is applied very suddenly. 
Jim McLane

> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 14:07:12 -0500
> To: [email protected]
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] Re: fall factor
>
> Seems like I heard somewhere that dead pig carcasses were
> used for just this sort of test somewhere, but the details elude
> me. That should give a pretty realistic assessment of the dynamics
> of the system, if you could get a pig into an appropriate harness.
>
> Mark
>
> At 01:12 PM 2/4/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:
> >The concept of fall factor in assessing the load on belays can be
> >overdone. Yes, it is probably meaningful when one is talking about a
> >fall of 40 feet on 20 feet of rope (which would be fall factor 2, if I
> >understand it). But there is a problem when discussing very short
> >falls, like 2 feet on a 1-foot cowstail. No matter how static the
> >cowstail might be, there is enough give in your harness and your body
> >to prevent the sudden stop that is the basis of worrying about fall
> >factors. I'd like to see a figure for the peak stress put on a short
> >length of static rope (it could even be a steel cable for the
> >experiment) by a caver falling 2 or 3 feet in his harness--not a
> >theoretical figure, but rather a dynomometer reading. (But even that
> >would hurt....) It would be a lot different from that of a concrete
> >block of the same weight attacted rigidly to the cable. Basically, if
> >you fall 1 or 2 times the length of your cowstail, your harness and
> >your butt are the dynamic protection.
> >
> >For a long drop, like a fall of a lead climber from above his last
> >belay point, the slop available in harness stretch and body
> >compression is a lot smaller fraction of the fall distance and
> >provides less protection. In such a case, the stretch of the rope is
> >critical to avoid death. -- Mixon


Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I slightly revised my less than favorable review of the movie Sanctum that 
I posted here earlier this week and posted it on TAG-Net (Tennessee, 
Alabama, and Georgia) yesterday. Here's are the two responses from TAG-Net this 
morning:

1)  Sanctimonius 
      By: David Drake  (Falkville, Alabama)  
I'll second Bill Steele's review of the movie. Between the F-bombs there 
was a movie about cave divers who break every rule regarding rescue and 
safe caving practices. 
 
4)  A response to Bruce and Bill's review of "Sanctum" 
      By: Dean Wiseman  (Indianapolis, Indiana) 
 
Great post on TAG-Net, both Bruce and Bill 

 
I came away from the film with the sense that they were just one inch 
away from having a really great sport-adventure movie. The one "inch" 
(I hyperbolize, for sure) was the use of standard Hollywood plot 
devices. Between ignorant writers/directors, and hyper-conservative 
dollar-minded producers, it was probably a lost cause to think they'd depart 
from 
the classics. 
 
Prime example: Sure it makes sense that a silver-spoon millionaire goes 
murderously insane on the Titanic when he loses his girlfriend, but in a 
cave, versus a guy who had no part in the issue? C'mon... 
 
Another missed opportunity was the fact that they had a first-rate movie 
"star" with regards to their cave. A few years back, there was an 
intriguing movie (so I thought) called "The Interpreter," starring 
Nicole Kidman and Sean Penn. One of the "stars" of that film was the 
U.N. Building in New York, shown in all its post-modern glory. Seems to 
me, a little more emphasis on a Golandrinas-meets-Cueva Cheve-meets-the 
Gunung Mulu would have put this movie, visually, on a level with 
"Avatar." Anyone else notice the forest of 2-3m soda straws at the deep 
campsite? Damn! 

So... so close.  
-Dean

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Mercy killings?  Did they split up his gear?
 
T


Feb 8, 2011 05:50:04 PM, [email protected] wrote:
"Not a dive trip"? Huh? Nullabor was very much a cave diving trip/expedition. They used large underwater sleds (aka big diver propulsion vehicles) to haul massive amounts of tanks over long distances...and used dive "scooters".....and besides the epic flood and the "incident"; the cave and exploration were notable because of the length of underwater penetration by the divers. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong, but at the time the length of underwater traverse at Nullabor was considered a significant undertaking. And it would have been a note worthy expedition...even if the cave had not flooded in such spectacular fashion.

I looked at the sketch map on the National Geo site for Nullabor...and I thought there was much cave mapped than what the sketch map indicates...has anyone seen another map of Nullabor?

Also...As Sanctum supposedly takes place in Papua New Guinea...I was curious about PNG...and have been reading "Beneath the Cloud Forests" by Howard M. Beck. it is a history of cave exploration in PNG. Its a very interesting account of the early explorations and expeditions. My only complaint thus far...is I wish the book had a better overall map of the Caving Areas. I had to resort to referring to another map to keep track of where everyone was going to find caves.

As for the film....well...I chalked it up to Hollywood and entertainment. I am not a big fan of the "mercy killings" either....nor was I fond of the plot twist that sent the cavers further into the cave to escape the flooding. And I thought having an in-cave camp a foot or two above the sump pool was a bit ridiculous. But then so was the use of a fancy computer at the in cave camp...and having the cave wired with lighting. And did anyone else notice that they had 3 in cave camps...but it only seemed to take them a few hours to get to the dive camp? But those are nit-picky criticisms of details. So...we all know that one can not rely on Hollywood for a sense of realism or accurate detail in a caving movie. But then Hollywood films have never been about realism. One can see that in other new films such as True Grit...time, space, detail, and geography are all distorted in the storytelling within a film...and this distortion is deliberate and intentional to hold the attention of the audience....it is a part of the genre of film.

I might add that I thought the character development was a miss also...they hinted at the motivations of cavers to explore...but only on the shallow superficial level of a cliche...for all of the fancy stunts and special effects; they failed to capture the human experience of exploration...or for lack of a better term the "act" of caving. What drives people to explore caves? Sanctum could have asked that question...instead of bogging itself down in showy stunts and mercy killings.

I am not embarrassed in the least bit for James Cameron...but it is unfortunate that "Sanctum" is such a spectacular missed opportunity to create a more "authentic" film about the nature of exploration and the underground world.

My 5 cents...

--- On Tue, 2/8/11, Karen Perry wrote:

From: Karen Perry
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Sanctum
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 9:37 AM

The only thing I found in common with Nullabor was both take place in a cave. Nullabor wasn't a diving trip & was 13 people & no one died or was seriously injured.
Karen

--- On Mon, 2/7/11, David Ochel wrote:

From: David Ochel
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Sanctum
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, February 7, 2011, 10:57 PM

So, Bill,

Is there anything on:

> Based on the true story of co-writer Andrew Wight. He once went cave
> diving and became trapped with fourteen other people in a cave for
> two days. Their entrance collapsed and they had to look for another
> way out.
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0881320/trivia

in your library?

Here is what Google found:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/sanctum-the-real-story-6322/blog

http://www.cavediving.com.au/cave-diving-articles/1988/12/4/13-hauled-to-safety-from-cave/

By the way, as opposed to others, I was reasonably entertained by the
movie... ;-)

Cheers,
David


On 1/27/11 6:48 PM, Mixon Bill wrote:
> They certainly do play fast and loose with geography. The original event
> on which the story was based was in Australia. The cave in the movie is
> said to be in Papua New Guinea, which is a great area for caves, but
> with its high relief, I wouldn't expect the very long, easy (except for
> length) sumps like in the original cave in Australia. And then of course
> some of the stuff appears to have been shot at Golondrinas in Mexico.
> Poetic license. -- Mixon
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David Ochel, mailto:[email protected]

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