texascavers Digest 2 Aug 2010 21:21:18 -0000 Issue 1121
Topics (messages 15646 through 15658):
Re: TCR Complaints
15646 by: Joe Ranzau
TCR whiners
15647 by: Carl Kunath
Personal Road-trip Report 6 of 20
15648 by: David
Re: TCR sites
15649 by: Gill Edigar
15650 by: Sheryl Rieck
15651 by: caverarch.aol.com
15652 by: Stefan Creaser
15653 by: Gill Edigar
15654 by: Sheryl Rieck
15655 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
15656 by: Stefan Creaser
15657 by: Sheryl Rieck
TPWD Executive Order re: WNS and cave access
15658 by: Butch Fralia
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--- Begin Message ---
Yea, Julia and Wavy Caver are stepping up!
Joe
On Aug 2, 2010, at 11:15 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> I wholeheartedly agree, Amanda.
>
>
>
>
>
> Anyone here willing to wear the mantle of “TCR Head Honcho”?
>
>
>
>
>
> Now’s the time to offer up your services for next year and give Allan a
> hearty pat on the back for a job well done and give him a well earned break.
>
>
>
>
>
> Allan has been soliciting volunteers since the Honey Creek TCR. (Great
> bonfire and ramen noodle wrestling, BTW!)
>
>
>
>
>
> Any takers?
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Amanda Scott [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:10 AM
> To: Texas Cavers
> Subject: [Texascavers] TCR Complaints
>
>
>
> Seriously, I can't believe the number of complaints. We should be grateful
> that Allan still wants to tackle a project like this and we should be
> grateful that we have a location for TCR 2010.
>
> Maybe next year Allan should just sit back and let someone else do the work
> and see if we will even have a TCR.
>
> In general, we need to be a little more considerate of each other on this
> listserv.
>
> --
> Amanda Scott
> 979-229-9430
> [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Atta' boy, Allan!
Let us see who among the whiners will step up and offer constructive assistance.
===Carl Kunath
----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Cobb
To: 'TexasCavers'
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:58 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Location for TCR
Since so many people have complained about my choice for the location of TCR,
I am will to make a deal. Anyone who wants to can find a better site. For one
week only, I am willing to change the location if a better site can be found.
Here is your chance to make a difference. Channel all your energy that has
been used for complaining into finding a site. Send me informaion on location,
description, cost, and availability. Now get out there and get to looking!
Allan
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I continued on last night to the town of Saratoga Springs, New York.
I had no idea what to expect.
I was presuming it would be something like Fredericksburg, Texas, and
that nearly everything would
be closed.
Too my surprise, this town simply kicks ass and takes names. No
wonder people love to live up here.
This is the one of the best frickin towns I have ever visited.
I walked all over downtown watching the night life like a zoo
spectator admires the animals. Everyone
was having fun, and the weather was awesome. And that was a
mid-nite on Sunday.
I saw a free rock concert that simply was amazing. The band was
called, "Sirsy." I guarantee you
that you would have enjoyed it.
I was exhausted, but wasn't about to leave what was one of the most
enjoyable concerts I have seen
since the Terminal Siphons played ICS.
So having had my fun in New York, I decided at that time to
change my northward course in New York, and instead to
to head due east into western Vermont, and look for a place to sleep.
The idea being that I could explore
western Vermont backroads and off-the-beaten-path places on the way to
the Howdy Party.
But when I got to the bridge it was out. That really sucked as I
had to back track losing almost an
hour and all that gas that I desperately needed.
Crossed into Vermont at 3:00 a.m. at the town of Fairhaven and there
was a wi-fi place there, but I was
too tired to turn on the computer.
Parked my van at a camp-site at a nearby campground, called "Bomoseen
State Park." It was probably
nicer than anything we have in Texas for summer camping. But I
only slept a few hours and took a
quick drive thru the scenic park.
I spent the rest of the day semi-lost on back-roads around the town of
Middlebury, Vermont, wandering
aimlessly for a state park that was supposed to have a cave. I
finally learned where it was with in a few
hundred yards probably. Then I learned, it wasn't open to the public.
[ I presume that I would have known that
had I taken the time to read the details of the convention web-site. ]
I took a break near there and hiked around a scenic spillway. That
was worth the drive to the area, as you can
hike right up to where the waterfall crashes into the water.
Next, explored the back-roads north of Middlebury. The Vermont
rural areas, which is nearly everywhere, has
a strong sweet aroma of cow dung. Almost all the cows are
half-white and half-black just like on the
commercials.
As I type this, I sit in a cafe in a one-street town called, Bristol.
I am less than an hour from the Howdy Party, which starts in a few hours.
My dilemma I have at the moment, is that I really should just show up
to the Howdy Party and say hello to
as many folks as possible and then turn around and head back home.
All the writing was on the wall, before
I left Arcola, Texas, but my desire to be here was greater than my
alloted time and resources.
At the moment, I am driving all the way back alone, and buying all the gas.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County, Texas
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One of the biggest headaches for the organizers of TCR has always been
finding a location. There are lots of sites available but most of them
are out of the price range. If anybody is serious about helping find
future TCR venues here are a few things to look for:
First, consider that a location in Central Texas offers the best
situation for the majority of Texas cavers. I'd say west of Austin to
as far away as a line from Junction to Uvalde and from San
Antonio/US-90 north to, say, San Saba. There are a lot of nice
river-front ranches in that territory--and a good many with caving
areas nearby. Just imagine the perfect site--a defunct (or even an
active one, out of season) children's summer camp on a high bend of a
flowing river somewhere around Hunt, Texas--then work your way down
from there. One of the best sources for information about land is, of
course, real estate agents--even for land that is not presently for
sale. (But don't forget, if the perfect or near perfect location can
be found, it is possible that TCR would buy it.) Check with them about
local ranches which have or would have good campsites. From my
experience I would suggest that the ideal campsite:
Minimum of 10 acres, 2wice that would be better
A running-water resource--i.e.: flowing creek, river, or clean, clear
lake (with vehicle access)
Level, grassy, shaded campsite(s) above the flood plain
Running water (suitable for drinking and showers)
Electricity
Reasonable highway access--county and gravel roads are OK
All-weather roads on site
No neighbors in sight (to bother or be bothered by)
A town with a grocery store within 15 or 20 miles
Visitable caves nearby--say within an hours' drive
Exclusive use
A flat-rate weekend rental that works out to no more than 2 or 3
dollars a head for the entire weekend
Bare in mind that not all of those are absolutely required (or any of
them, for that matter)--nor, you would think, will such a place be
easy to find. (Unless, of course, you can say "Flat Creek".) In
reality, there are probably several hundred such places in the Hill
Country. Many could be bought. It's just a matter of finding them.
Somebody needs to do an internet tour of Hill Country real estate
agencies and inquire of the oldest agent there if they can remember
places that come close to fitting such criteria. Anybody with family
living within those limits should inquire of them about such
locations. Generations of Texas cavers will thank you.
Good luck,
--Ediger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found such a place. It is 339 acres for a cool mil. Anybody?
Sheryl
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gill
Edigar
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 1:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCR sites
One of the biggest headaches for the organizers of TCR has always
been
finding a location. There are lots of sites available but most of
them
are out of the price range. If anybody is serious about helping find
future TCR venues here are a few things to look for:
First, consider that a location in Central Texas offers the best
situation for the majority of Texas cavers. I'd say west of Austin to
as far away as a line from Junction to Uvalde and from San
Antonio/US-90 north to, say, San Saba. There are a lot of nice
river-front ranches in that territory--and a good many with caving
areas nearby. Just imagine the perfect site--a defunct (or even an
active one, out of season) children's summer camp on a high bend of a
flowing river somewhere around Hunt, Texas--then work your way down
from there. One of the best sources for information about land is, of
course, real estate agents--even for land that is not presently for
sale. (But don't forget, if the perfect or near perfect location can
be found, it is possible that TCR would buy it.) Check with them
about
local ranches which have or would have good campsites. From my
experience I would suggest that the ideal campsite:
Minimum of 10 acres, 2wice that would be better
A running-water resource--i.e.: flowing creek, river, or clean, clear
lake (with vehicle access)
Level, grassy, shaded campsite(s) above the flood plain
Running water (suitable for drinking and showers)
Electricity
Reasonable highway access--county and gravel roads are OK
All-weather roads on site
No neighbors in sight (to bother or be bothered by)
A town with a grocery store within 15 or 20 miles
Visitable caves nearby--say within an hours' drive
Exclusive use
A flat-rate weekend rental that works out to no more than 2 or 3
dollars a head for the entire weekend
Bare in mind that not all of those are absolutely required (or any of
them, for that matter)--nor, you would think, will such a place be
easy to find. (Unless, of course, you can say "Flat Creek".) In
reality, there are probably several hundred such places in the Hill
Country. Many could be bought. It's just a matter of finding them.
Somebody needs to do an internet tour of Hill Country real estate
agencies and inquire of the oldest agent there if they can remember
places that come close to fitting such criteria. Anybody with family
living within those limits should inquire of them about such
locations. Generations of Texas cavers will thank you.
Good luck,
--Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---
Bare in mind
That's a comment from Gill, alright.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gill Edigar <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Aug 2, 2010 1:59 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCR sites
One of the biggest headaches...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And where is it? Do you have a link?
-----Original Message-----
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:14 PM
To: 'Gill Edigar'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
I found such a place. It is 339 acres for a cool mil. Anybody?
Sheryl
-----Original Message-----
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it's the right kind of place it can generate income.
--Ediger
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]> wrote:
> I found such a place. It is 339 acres for a cool mil. Anybody?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here you go!
http://www.landsoftexas.com/texas/index.cfm?detail=&inv_id=134562
-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:48 PM
To: Sheryl Rieck; Gill Edigar; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
And where is it? Do you have a link?
-----Original Message-----
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:14 PM
To: 'Gill Edigar'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
I found such a place. It is 339 acres for a cool mil. Anybody?
Sheryl
-----Original Message-----
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IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey,
That's next door to my buddy's place. There are a few holes in the hills too.
AGG
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
[email protected]
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
To: [email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 3:02 PM
Here you go!
http://www.landsoftexas.com/texas/index.cfm?detail=&inv_id=134562
-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:48 PM
To: Sheryl Rieck; Gill Edigar; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
And where is it? Do you have a link?
-----Original Message-----
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:14 PM
To: 'Gill Edigar'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
I found such a place. It is 339 acres for a cool mil. Anybody?
Sheryl
-----Original Message-----
--
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
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--- Begin Message ---
That's as maybe, but it seems to violate the "not too far west"
requirement...
From: Andy Gluesenkamp [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 3:38 PM
To: [email protected]; Sheryl Rieck
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
Hey,
That's next door to my buddy's place. There are a few holes in the
hills too.
AGG
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
[email protected]
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 3:02 PM
Here you go!
http://www.landsoftexas.com/texas/index.cfm?detail=&inv_id=134562
-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:[email protected]
<http://us.mc320.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> ]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:48 PM
To: Sheryl Rieck; Gill Edigar; [email protected]
<http://us.mc320.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
m>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
And where is it? Do you have a link?
-----Original Message-----
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:[email protected]
<http://us.mc320.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> ]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:14 PM
To: 'Gill Edigar'; [email protected]
<http://us.mc320.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
m>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
I found such a place. It is 339 acres for a cool
mil. Anybody?
Sheryl
-----Original Message-----
--
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any
attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the
intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not
disclose the
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store
or copy the
information in any medium. Thank you.
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--- Begin Message ---
But, look at the place!!! Isn't it worth it being a little farther west?
From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 3:39 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]; Sheryl Rieck
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
That's as maybe, but it seems to violate the "not too far west" requirement.
From: Andy Gluesenkamp [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 3:38 PM
To: [email protected]; Sheryl Rieck
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
Hey,
That's next door to my buddy's place. There are a few holes in the hills
too.
AGG
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
[email protected]
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Sheryl Rieck <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
To: [email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 3:02 PM
Here you go!
http://www.landsoftexas.com/texas/index.cfm?detail=
<http://www.landsoftexas.com/texas/index.cfm?detail=&inv_id=134562>
&inv_id=134562
-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:[email protected]
<http://us.mc320.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> ]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:48 PM
To: Sheryl Rieck; Gill Edigar; [email protected]
<http://us.mc320.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
And where is it? Do you have a link?
-----Original Message-----
From: Sheryl Rieck [mailto:[email protected]
<http://us.mc320.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> ]
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:14 PM
To: 'Gill Edigar'; [email protected]
<http://us.mc320.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TCR sites
I found such a place. It is 339 acres for a cool mil. Anybody?
Sheryl
-----Original Message-----
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--- Begin Message ---
This is being forwarded to the list from Logan McNatt who cannot post from
his work e-mail address
.
Butch
This is a general policy statement that applies only to caves on TPWD
properties, e.g. state parks and wildlife management areas. Decisions are
being made on a case by case basis. So far, Gorman Cave at Colorodo Bend SP
is the only cave normally open to visitors that has been closed. The policy
was developed after much thought and consultation with other agencies,
including Bat Conservation International. Logan
_____
TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ORDER NO. 010-005
The Executive Director of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department orders the
restrictions to public access to certain department lands and facilities as
provided herein.
Due to the detection of White Nose Syndrome (WNS) in bat populations in
nearby states, the Executive Director has determined that it is necessary to
authorize staff of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (the department)
to restrict public access, where necessary, to caves or other natural
features on state parks, wildlife management areas, and any other lands
under the management of the department, in order to prevent the possible
spread of WNS as a result of human contact.
WNS is a fungal pathogen whose etiology, pathology, distribution, and
dispersal have not been well studied and are not well understood. WNS is
believed to disrupt the feeding and hibernation cycles of affected
individuals, leading to death in almost all cases. WNS poses no threat to
human beings. At the present time, WNS is not known to have spread to Texas;
however, since its discovery in the northeastern United States in 2006, it
has spread southward and westward and now has been detected or is suspected
to exist in 14 states and two Canadian provinces, including the states of
Missouri and Oklahoma. Although the mechanics of WNS transmission are not
definitively known, mammalogists have recommended the closure of hibernacula
(areas where bats hibernate) to human contact in order to minimize the
potential spread of WNS. WNS has been detected in nine species of bats thus
far (little brown bat, eastern small-footed bat, northern long-eared bat,
tri-colored bat, big brown bat, Indiana bat, gray bat, cave myotis, and
southeastern myotis). Because several of the species of bats known to be
susceptible to WNS are found in Texas, the department believes it is prudent
to identify and close to public access those areas under the control of the
department where physical contact between humans and bats or bat habitat may
occur.
It is therefore ordered that department staff is authorized to restrict
public access, as necessary, to any feature or area under department control
in order to prevent the spread of WNS. Department staff is also authorized
to allow controlled access to caves and other areas under conditions
prescribed by the department, including escorted visitation, limitations on
activities and conduct, and decontamination protocols.
The department will prominently post those areas that are closed to public
access, and will publish a list of the closed areas on the department
website.
This order is issued pursuant to §81.401 of the Texas Parks and Wildlife
Code, and 31 Tex. Admin. Code §59.132(a), §59.134(e), §65.192(f),
§65.204(d). This order is effective immediately.
Signed this the 29th day of July, 2010.
cid:[email protected]
Carter Smith
Executive Director
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
--- End Message ---
