texascavers Digest 21 Sep 2010 07:19:41 -0000 Issue 1153
Topics (messages 16083 through 16102):
another cave dive video
16083 by: David
an old personal story
16084 by: David
Tropical Storm Karl report
16085 by: David
Re: Interesting results of WNS research
16086 by: Gill Edigar
Re: Caves under Giza
16087 by: SS
Last call
16088 by: Ron Ralph
Pre-TCR Work Day, Saturday, September 25th- few hands needed to trim things
16089 by: ellie :)
WNS Fungus Genome Sequenced
16090 by: Mark Minton
Re: Lava River Cave graffiti removal
16091 by: Lee H. Skinner
Re: underground lava tubes
16092 by: David
cave archaeology in the news
16093 by: David
an interesting list
16094 by: David
Re: Forest Service to Require Decon Nationwide Oct. 1
16095 by: Gill Edigar
Vertical Training Class Reminder
16096 by: Geary Schindel
Nominate, before it's too late!
16097 by: Matt Turner
Re: Wisconsin Set to Name Cave Bats as Threatened, G.d. as prohibited invasive
species
16098 by: Gill Edigar
16101 by: Mark Minton
new records
16099 by: Mixon Bill
16100 by: Pete Lindsley
a promising new LED headlamp
16102 by: David
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--- Begin Message ---
The video below was posted today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc5mXOsuu8U
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--- Begin Message ---
Back in 1989, I was fortunate enough to go on a road-trip to
Oaxaca, with 2 cavers from Australia.
I was reminiscing about that tonight, and looked up on Youtube
to see if anyone had been to the cave we went to.
And I found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJgcVUtAmGQ
I don't remember everything about the trip, but the 3 of us set up
camp on the edge of the small town of Eloxochitlan and met up
with some San Antonio cavers. 3 of them were Linda
Palit, Joe Ivy, and Jim Elliot. Maybe there were others.
I didn't know any body on the trip, and had been camping with the
2 Aussies for nearly a week and barely knew them.
( The Aussies were sort of on a honeymoon, so I was trying unsuccessfully
not to be a nuisance ).
I was only going to be in Oaxaca for one day, so I was anxious
to go caving and this was the only cave the locals said was close.
It was a scenic easy walk about about 1/4 mile to the cave entrance.
I thought the cave was really nice, but everybody in the party felt it
was not what they had driven 1,000 miles to find. They had expectations
of finding an unknown cave with multiple drops.
They made a rough survey of the cave, but I don't believe that ever
made it to paper. Rolf Adams was the trip leader and he passed away
about 3 years after that. ( See Blind Descent pg. 67-69 )
We spent most of the day in the cave. Everybody returned to camp, but
I poked around for another hour and wished I could have poked around
a lot more. It was a fun cave, with lots of easy walking passage.
All I really remember about that cave was it was the only cave I had ever
been underground with Joe, even though I had met him at Honeycreek and
various TSA functions in the years prior to that.
Also, I really enjoyed caving with Rolf. He was such a character,
and the most talented
caver I ever met. He had me convinced, his name was Rolf Wallaby,
and I didn't find out his real name until he had passed away. There was
one tricky spot in the cave that Rolf descended without a rope. From my
point of view, it looked like he was stepping off into a dark void of unknown
depth. There was a very good airflow there. You can see the drop
off in the slide
show where all the cavers are standing.
I was not able to make a contribution as far as caving goes. But the
last night, we were sitting around camp, and a very drunk local would
not leave us alone. He insisted on staying up all night with us.
I volunteered
to walk him home. It turned out we were practically camped in his
front yard. He invited me inside and then to my surprise, he
introduced me to his lovely teenage
daughter. She was quite embarrassed her father was so drunk. My Spanish
was not very good then, but that was one of the reasons I wanted to be there.
I visited with the family, and I eventually convinced the guy I needed to return
to camp and get some sleep. I often wondered if I missed out on an
opportunity
to marry a beautiful girl from Eloxochitlan, Oaxaca.
Anyways, I had a bizarre plan to hitch-hike from there the next day to
Ciudad Valles
in an effort to make it to the first Mexpeleo gathering. For
some reason, Jim
Elliot decided he was not going to stay, and not knowing me at all,
offered me a
ride north. He immediately regretted that decision and considered
leaving me in
the state of Tlaxcala, and again in the state of Hidalgo. But we
eventually made it to
Mexpeleo and eventually became friends. He dropped me off in San
Marcos at the
Greyhound Station, and I returned by bus to Houston.
Unfortunately, I never made it that far south again, so I can only
reminisce about it
now.
David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---
As of 2 a.m. Sunday, the center of the depression is just to the west
of Tehuacan, Oaxaca, with the area
around Teotitlan getting the worst of the remnants of the storm.
Meaning the Huatla caving area is getting some
good rain.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cheryl Jones <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 10:40 PM
Subject: Interesting results of WNS research
To: [email protected]
"A number of the researchers attempting to culture Geomyces
destructans have reported that it is difficult to culture due to being
overwhelmed by other fungi, including other Geomyces species. In terms
of how long the fungus remains viable in the environment, we have
three pieces of research - none of them published as yet."
Read on for info
http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=10670&p=91391#p91391
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When you say dead end. The cave became small and went no farther. Or the
cave was silted up or the cave was collapsed.
I have dug open many "dead ends". Funny thing. they kept going afterwards..
_____
From: Karen Perry [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 9:34 AM
To: SS
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caves under Giza
I know the cave of which you speak. It does do a dead end and there are no
leads. Hawass had it checked out about 8 or 9 years ago. I know as I was on
the team. Sorry to pop your bubble. Most of all the caves I have visited in
Egypt are like the one shown in the program, tunnel like, dry & dusty with
little formations. The Egyptian Fruit Bats are really cute oh
K
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, SS <[email protected]> wrote:
From: SS <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Caves under Giza
To: "'CaveTex'" <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 12:03 PM
There was an episode of "Chasing Mummies" on this morning and they entered a
tomb that intersects a natural cave just a few thousand feet from the
pyramid. They Guestimated the length to be 300' but without a survey it's
anyone's guess. Looked pretty big to me. They were walking the entire
time. Of course the two large passages dead ended. But we all know without
a survey and digging the leads you can't say it's a dead end. As large as
the cave was it could defiantly extend under the plateau. And where there
is one cave...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers:
This is the last chance for you to consider running for office. The Texas
Speleological Association needs your participation in running and voting at
the Texas Caver Reunion. The positions are for one year and duties are
outlined below. Your deadline is close of business Friday, September 24,
2010.
Our present officers (2010) are:
President - Mark Alman
Vice-President - Ellie Watson
Secretary - Denise Prendergast
Treasurer - Darla Bishop
Sincerely,
Ron Ralph, TSA Elections Committee Chair
September 19, 2010
512.280.9468 Home
512.797.3817 Cell
Duties of TSA Officers
Article IV: Officers
A. The Executive Council consists of the Chairman, Vice-Chairman, Secretary,
Treasurer and the Chair of each standing committee. Elected officers shall
take office on the first day of the New Year.
1. The Chairman, when present, shall preside over all TSA meetings.
2. The Vice-Chairman is responsible for meeting and program arrangements and
shall preside at TSA meeting is the absence of the Chairman.
3. The Secretary records the minutes of TSA meetings and maintains a current
list of members.
4. The Treasurer keeps track of TSA assets by maintaining adequate financial
records, including those for The Texas Caver. The Treasurer prepares a
budget for the fiscal year, maintains the membership database, and insures
the database is available electronically to the membership.
B. A vacancy in any elected office other than that of Chairman may be filled
by the Executive Council by appointing any full member in good standing or
by special election if so desired by the Executive Council.
C. The Vice-Chairman shall fill a vacancy in the office of Chairman.
NOTES: The vice chair has historically organized the TSA spring convention.
And the chairman is responsible for organizing the TSA business
meetings...ie preparing agendas, scheduling the meeting...keeping things
moving at the meetings....and being a "speleo-referee" to keep things civil.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all,
TCR is almost here!!! Yahhhhayyyyy!
This weekend, Saturday, September 25th, we are having a work day to
prepare camp sites, trim trees near the camp site, and mow the area we
will be using for TCR. Its very minimal work and you can get a free
sneak peak of this years TCR site too!
TCR is a big effort for all but is manageable when everyone lends a
helping hand so if a few of you are free to help this weekend, please
plan to come out for a bit to lend a helping hand. We need one or two
weedeaters and a chainsaw if someone can lend that out.
I will be there starting at 8am. Please let me know if you are coming.
Call me at #509-899-0007 or email [email protected]
Meet at:
7030 E. FM 1431
Marble Falls, Texas 78654
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<http://www.broadinstitute.org/news/1516>
Mark Minton
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ray,
"The cave is popular with tourists and was the site of an underground
lava tube."
I greatly applaud your work. It was quite an effort and very
commendable. But I still think the wording of the last sentence of the
article was funny. Sorry you're offended but since I still feel the
wording is humorous, I can't retract or apologize for what I said or the
way I said it.
Regards,
Lee
Ray Keeler said:
I must admit that I am a bit offended by Lee's comment below.
There has been substantial graffiti placed in Lava River Cave over this
last summer. 20 of us participated in the graffiti removal effort using
the PCCP sandblasting equipment. Friday we laid 3900 feet of high
pressure hose and tested it. Saturday we started from the back, where
the tagging was the worst, and worked towards the entrance. Sunday we
started before 9AM and cut off sandblasting at noon and extracted
equipment. Rich Bohman coordinated underground activities and did a
great job.
The Coconino NF invested substantial resources, including law
enforcement, administrative, signage, and two on-site rangers to help.
We were able to clean all of the tags in the cave with the exception of
two closest to the entrance, when we ran out of time.
thanks,
Ray
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
He probably didn't realize that cavers find that some expressions by
journalist to
be humorous.
I presume your point is that if the cave was once an underground lava
tube, then what is it
now, and what speleogenic process could have led to such a transformation?
Or why didn't the journalist just say the cave was formed by an
underground lava flow?
I presume that is what they were meaning.
Everybody seems to be in such a hurry to write things these days (
including me ) that
they don't notice misspellings, grammar mistakes, and wording that
sounds like a 4th
grader wrote it.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This was from a month ago, but I don't recall if someone posted it:
http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/neanderthal-bedroom-house.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a list of some of the caves in the world ( broken down by country ):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_caves
Each entry has the potential to be a link to a complete documentary on a
particular cave or cave system.
4 commercial caves in Texas made the list.
So we were beat out by the Caribbean country of Anguilla.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cheryl Jones <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:52 PM
Subject: Forest Service to Require Decon Nationwide Oct. 1
To: [email protected]
[forwarded]
We've posted some new (to us) important U.S. Forest Service documents
on the NSS WNS page: http://www.caves.org/WNS
These include:
-- the USFS WNS Interim Response Plan;
-- a memo from the Washington, D.C. office to all regional foresters;
-- the USFS decontamination protocols (based largely on the USFWS ones
- and I'm not aware of any separate research that went into their
development - but their application is the Forest Service's);
-- and a memo to Region 3 folks.
Bottom line: any visitation to any cave or mine on USFS land anywhere
within the U.S. will need to follow decon protocols as of October 1.
These are also supposed to be in place for any show caves on USFS
land. Regions are asked to work with their regional stakeholders,
including grottos, to address a WNS plan, and to consider closing
caves and mines.
Peter Youngbaer
WNS Liaison
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is another announcement for a Vertical Training Class to be held this
weekend.
Folks,
I'm pleased to announce a Beginning and Intermediate Vertical Caver Workshop.
Friday evening, September 24 through Sunday afternoon, September 26.
The training will be hosted by BSA Venture Crew 410 and the Bexar Grotto of the
NSS.
The workshop will be held at a campground along the Guadalupe River,
approximately 20 miles north of San Antonio. The ranch covers 380 acres and
contains a number of moderate cliffs and large trees. There are plenty of
great campsites, shower and bathroom stalls, etc. There are also RV hookups
which can be worked out with the campground manager if interested.
The Beginning Vertical Caving Workshop will follow the NSS Vertical Section
Training Manual and will include sections on knots, ropes, anchors, basic
rigging, harnesses, rappel devices, rappelling and ascending techniques, and
vertical caving etiquette and philosophy.
The Intermediate Vertical Caving Workshop will include advanced anchors and
rigging, rebelays, pickoffs, haul system construction, vertical team planning,
leadership and management, and vertical caving etiquette and philosophy.
The cost of the course is $25 US and includes camping. There may be a meal
plan available if there is enough interest.
There may also be an opportunity to visit a 200 foot long cave located on the
property on either Friday night or Saturday night if there is sufficient
interest.
You must register for both classes and attendance is restricted to active
cavers who are members of a grotto and/or the NSS and Venture Scouts with
approval from the course coordinator. You must be a minimum of 14 years old to
participate.
Directions and a list of recommended equipment will be provided upon
reservation. Space is limited for both classes so early registration is
recommended. Registration deadline is Thursday, September 23, 2010.
For registration or more information, please contact:
Geary Schindel
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
210-326-1576 cell
210-479-2151 home
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The TCMA will be closing it's nominations for board members on 9/27(next
monday). If you are interested or know someone you think should be seriously
considered please email me (but please not all of TexasCavers) with their
contact information.
Here is the description of the job:
* Attends at least 50% of board and member meetings.
* Makes serious commitment to participate actively in Board work,
staying
informed on Board matters and eventually chairing a committee or directing a
project .
* Becomes informed of the business of TCMA and help make decisions and
manage
that business.
* Volunteers for and willingly accepts assignments and completes them
thoroughly and on time.
* -Represents TCMA in community, presenting programs to civic,
business, or
similar groups and keeping local cavers informed of TCMA business or
opportunities.
* Gets to know other Board members and builds a collegial working
relationship
that contributes to consensus.
* Is an active participant in the TCMA's annual evaluation and
planning
efforts.
* Participates in fund raising for the organization, either through
mailings,
fund raising events, personal presentations, grant writing, or invitations to
others to contribute to the organization.These candidates will be voted on at
this year's TCMA member's meeting at TCR.
Thanks,Matt Turner
TCMA Board Member.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cheryl Jones <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 10:32 AM
Subject: Wisconsin Set to Name Cave Bats as Threatened, G.d. as
prohibited invasive species
To: [email protected]
Breaking News: Wisconsin to Act Wednesday on Naming Cave Bats as
Threatened; To Set Precedent by naming Geomyces destructans as
"prohibited invasive species."
Here's the link for the Threatened Species motion:
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/2010/September/09-10-3B12.pdf
"Listing these species before WNS has been detected in Wisconsin will
ensure that appropriate
conservation measures, such as the protection of refuge hibernacula,
are developed and in place in the
event that WNS affects Wisconsin."
Here's the link for the Prohibited Invasive Species motion:
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/2010/September/09-10-3B13.pdf
"The fungus, Geomyces destructans, is proposed for emergency listing
as a prohibited invasive species due to the immediate threat of
while-nose syndrome (WNS) in Wisconsin. Listing the fungus before WNS
has been detected in Wisconsin will allow the department time to work
collaboratively with stakeholders to ensure that appropriate
conservation measures are in place. Because of the rapid spread of
WNS, the department would not have time to develop appropriate
conservation measures if listing were delayed until after WNS was
detected in Wisconsin. Based on the current location and known rate of
spread of the disease, WNS could he present in Wisconsin as early as
January 20. Practical measures exist that can be employed to control
the spread of the fungus."
The media story:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/environment/article_fa491b50-c432-11df-8d19-001cc4c03286.html
As always, you can find these links on the NSS WNS page, under
"Breaking News." www.caves.org/wns
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ediger forwarded:
The media story:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/environment/article_fa491b50-c432-11df-8d19-001cc4c03286.html
Interesting that they chose the most antagonistic wording
possible toward cavers in that article:
>working with the owners of caves and mines to protect them from
introduction of the disease, which is often spread on boots and
clothing by cavers.
Every other story I've seen says humans _may_ spread the virus, and
many acknowledge that human transmission is unproven. This story
takes the opposite tack and states that people spread it
often. That's irresponsible. :-(
Mark Minton
Please reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have no idea who this "Jonathan" is, but here is some stuff copied
from another list.
-- Mixon
You may be interested to know that two long standing world records
have been broken recently;
Firstly, a 5 man team (Snablet, Adam Spillane, Trevor Wailes and
Helen and
I) found what we thought was the worlds biggest cave passage last
year; this
has now been confirmed. Article in National Geographic Jan 2011,
film on
Nat Geo channel at around the same time.
Secondly, and more impressively, Rick and Jason have just broken
(smashed)
the world cave diving penetration record with a dive reaching 8800M
from
base with a max depth of around 80M (average around 40M). This was
done in
Pozo Azul in Spain.
Jonathan
----------------------------------------
A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's Jason Mallinson, Rick Stanton and John Volanthen, along with
Dutch caver Rene Houben. "The team began their two-and-a-half day
foray into the Pozo Azul caves in Covenera, northern Spain, on
Saturday. They used ‘scooters’ to pull them through three sumps – or
underwater passages. "
[http://www.metro.co.uk/news/840950-british-led-dive-team-break-record-with-8-8km-cave-dive
]
[http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/cave-cavern-diving/110493-presentation-cave-diving-explorations-pozo-azul-n-spain.html
]
[http://www.direxplorers.com/dir-cave-diving/6206-new-espedition-ekpp-pozo-azul-spain.html
]
[http://www.showcaves.com/english/es/springs/Azul.html]
[http://video.google.es/videoplay?docid=-4666876663128080840#]
- Pete
On Sep 20, 2010, at 3:28 PM, Mixon Bill wrote:
I have no idea who this "Jonathan" is, but here is some stuff copied
from another list.
-- Mixon
You may be interested to know that two long standing world records
have been broken recently;
Firstly, a 5 man team (Snablet, Adam Spillane, Trevor Wailes and
Helen and
I) found what we thought was the worlds biggest cave passage last
year; this
has now been confirmed. Article in National Geographic Jan 2011,
film on
Nat Geo channel at around the same time.
Secondly, and more impressively, Rick and Jason have just broken
(smashed)
the world cave diving penetration record with a dive reaching 8800M
from
base with a max depth of around 80M (average around 40M). This was
done in
Pozo Azul in Spain.
Jonathan
----------------------------------------
A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't had any news lately on the LED headlamp topic.
Here is a new one that looks promising and built by a reputable
company - Underwater Kinetics.
http://www.uwkinetics.com/uploads/thumbnails/uploads/products/41f3cfad972e4f84b9868faa8e7bd2afc0c0341a_800x800.jpg
Note the large waterproof push button switch on the side.
Also note the rubber strap is designed to fit on helmets.
http://www.uwkinetics.com/uploads/thumbnails/uploads/products/2c452f8d21d25f841cd29224329335bb8296c128_800x800.jpg
And it is only $ 40.
It definitely has some unique features that no other lamp has, but whether
they really work as advertised is going to have to be put to test.
For example,
look closely in the photo below at how the LED assembly is removable. The clear
tube has 3 areas of different texture and color. As you rotate it,
you can change
the light pattern.
I really like the part about not having a hinge. That is one less
thing that could
break on a caving trip.
http://www.uwkinetics.com/products/3aaa-eled-vizion-i-headlamp#
It looks well constructed for a plastic headlamp, and has a low setting to save
battery power.
http://www.uwkinetics.com/uploads/thumbnails/uploads/products/97e5dfac49553a8de55ce74d35cc4e6d01da1ede_800x800.jpg
Any volunteers want to order one and give us a test report on use in a caving
trip?
http://www.uwkinetics.com/uploads/thumbnails/uploads/products/9bae06457a78f001a738ce620b23a9addf77aef7_800x800.jpg
This could be a great headlamp for back-up use in big wet-caves, and probably
a very good primary light for a Honeycreek trip, HOWEVER,
the idea of using the battery as a heat-sink sounds fishy. Since
the lamp is watertight plastic,
I would think heat would not escape easily, meaning the 3 AAA
batteries could really get hot.
http://www.uwkinetics.com/uploads/thumbnails/uploads/products/414a6c5218b421771872d86a1431bcfadc7a28e6_800x800.jpg
It is rated to 33 foot depth, which should be good enough for a caving light.
Light rating is: 42 lumens / 19 lumens, which is not bright enough
for a primary light in big caves, but fine
for something like Honeycreek.
David Locklear
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