Re: [Texascavers] caves versus guns

[Rod Goke]

Thanks, Matt, for maintaining a voice of respectful reason amid the recent storm of mockery, name calling, and childish attempts to ridicule anyone who disagrees with some people's opinions on a controversial issue. When it comes to trusting people with any important safety related activity, whether its carrying a gun, leading a caving trip, or driving an automobile, I'm more inclined to have confidence in those with the emotional stability to make rational, respectful arguments in a serious discussion (even if I don't agree with everything they say) than I am those who lose their cool and resort to mockery and insults.  Rod -----Original Message----- From: Matt Turner Sent: Feb 22, 2010 1:10 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] caves versus guns I'm not sure where my last post went to, but here we go.   Ignoring the last stupid post here(sleaze)   Here's a question for you. Why are yall caving with people you don't trust to have a gun around you? No matter what cave we go into our lives are in each other's hands. A stupid mistake in a cave is as serious as a stupid mistake with a gun.  I have to say if I don't trust someone to handle a gun then I won't go caving with them and neither should anyone else.    Did I advocate someone putting one in their cave pack? No. But if they left it safely near the entrance without a bullet in the chamber how is this some how an extra danger? You're more likely to get hurt by their knife in this case than the gun.   I can easily bet everyone posting on here has been on a trip where a gun was present. I know most of the posters and I know who they've been caving with so I can say for a fact actually that most have, even when they weren't caving with me. If the gun owner is being responsible then most people there will not know you have it unless something comes up and it's suddenly needed.   Most of the anti-gun posts I see on here so far have been more ideologically based than they have been in response to mine or other's responses. Most seemed to have read gun and then posted their automated anti-gun response.  Some have posted about how it's for snake detection, but that is not what any of the pro-gun people said at all. They said they knew Ronny carried one for if he found a snake.   Again if you can't trust you fellow cavers with a gun then you should re-think who you go caving with. Having a gun shouldn't be a determinate, for if you should have them on a cave trip, anymore than their political views or sexuality.  If they don't have a history of making bad mistakes with guns (and if they do I wouldn't cave with them anyhow) and you ostracize them just for having one, you might as well ostracize a conservative, christian, muslim, or homosexual.     Matt Turner "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that."- Norman Vincent Peale --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com