texascavers Digest 7 Dec 2009 02:26:13 -0000 Issue 905

Sun, 6 Dec 2009 18:26:21 -0800 (PST) 

texascavers Digest 7 Dec 2009 02:26:13 -0000 Issue 905

Topics (messages 12819 through 12826):

Nutty Putty Cave sealed :
        12819 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com

Re: Nutty Putty questions unanswered
        12820 by: Rod Goke

Nutty Putty Cave trip details
        12821 by: David
        12822 by: David

UT RecSports - Outdoor Recreation Program - Wilderness Medicine
        12823 by: David Ochel

"official report"
        12824 by: Mixon Bill

Video Clips of the SWR Winter Tech Regional
        12825 by: Lee H. Skinner

And now for some holiday spirit .....
        12826 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com

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--- Begin Message --- 
 
Nutty Putty cave sealed with  concrete
_ 
By Jason Bergreen 
The Salt Lake Tribune_ (mailto:[email protected]?subject=Salt Lake 
Tribune: Nutty Putty cave sealed with concrete) 
Updated: 12/04/2009 12:09:24 AM  MST



The mouth of Nutty Putty Cave was sealed with concrete Thursday, turning 
the  cavern's 1,400 feet of chutes and tunnels into the final resting place of 
 26-year-old John Jones.  
Jones became stuck in the Utah County cave Nov. 25 and died after a 27-hour 
 effort by more than 135 rescuers to free him from a crevice.  
The Utah County Public Works Department used explosives earlier this week 
to  collapse part of the cave's ceiling, blocking an entrance deep inside 
near where  Jones' body remains stuck, said John Andrews, the chief legal 
counsel and  associate director for the School and Institutional Trust Lands 
Administration,  which owns the property.  
On Thursday, the throat of the narrow cave, a 7-foot deep, 30-inch wide 
hole,  was filled with concrete, Andrews said. Sheriff Jim Tracy told Andrews 
that no  other parts of the cave were damaged while the cave was sealed.  
The closure of the cave is not physically irreversible, Andrews said, but  
there are no plans to revisit the decision to close it.  
"It is permanently closed from our standpoint," he said.  
Jones' body remains where he became stuck, in a thin finger of the cave 
near  the end of the main passage about 100 feet below the surface and 400 feet 
from  the entrance.  
The Stansbury Park man entered the tight passage as he and a group of 
family  and friends fanned out to explore the cave. He was trapped head first 
at 
a  70-degree angle, with much of his waist and torso pinched in a 
10-inch-wide  space, authorities said.  
Rescuers briefly pulled the former Brigham Young University student from 
the  crevice using a pulley system and ropes tied to his feet, but he slipped 
back  into the tight space when an anchor broke free of the cave wall.  
Jones was not injured in the second fall, but struggled to breathe about 
two  hours later. When he fell silent, rescuers with medical training pushed a 
 stethoscope in the crevice and could not find a pulse. Jones was 
pronounced dead  at 11:57 p.m. He is thought to have died of the effects of the 
constant pressure  on his body.  
The popular cave, discovered by Dale Green in 1960, attracted up to 10,000  
people a year, despite its remote access at the top of a hill west of State 
Road  68. It was named for its soft brown "nutty putty" clay.  
There have been five high-profile rescues in the cave in the past 10 years, 
 and it was closed temporarily in 2004 after two people got stuck in 
separate  incidents within a week of each other.  
Andrews said SITLA will work with Jones' family concerning any future  
memorial on the site. So far, no specific plans have been finalized.  
_http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_13919224_ 
(http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_13919224)

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--- Begin Message ---
And what better way to cover up physical evidence of what actually happened than to permanently close the cave and to destroy its entrance?

The one thing that government agencies and most other bureaucracies tend to fear the most is public embarrassment about something they did wrong, either deliberately, accidentally, or through negligence. This fear often leads them to issue gag orders and to hide evidence, even when their original misdeeds are minor in comparison with the subsequent coverup attempts. I don't know that anyone actually did anything wrong during this rescue attempt. Sometimes even the most responsible and heroic actions of well qualified people have undesirable outcomes due to difficult and unfortunate circumstances. When a bureaucratic agency issues gag orders and takes actions that hide or destroy physical evidence of an unfortunate incident, however, it creates the appearance of a coverup, regardless of whether or not a coverup actually is intended.

I agree with Gill that the truth needs to come out so that people throughout the caving community and related rescue organizations can learn from the experience and be better prepared to prevent future tragedies. For this purpose, it is important that witnesses be allowed to speak freely, without the censorship of a bureaucratic filter, and that physical evidence be preserved in a way that allows it to be examined by qualified, unbiased people who were not involved in the rescue attempt and who are not affiliated with any agency responsible for that attempt.

Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: Gill Edigar
Sent: Dec 4, 2009 11:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Nutty Putty questions unanswered



On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 8:08 AM, Scott McCrea <[email protected]> wrote:
Andy Armstrong answers your quesiton here: http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?p=79297#p79297

...and Geary Schindel wrote:
   What is reported in the popular press is rarely correct in these incidents and Andy does a good job explaining it.  I think this is the link to the discussion board of the incident http://www.forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9399
    

Neither one of these forums discussed the victim dropping incident in detail. How was the anchor rigged? Who rigged it? Who checked it? What sort of back-up was provided? What was the hauling procedure? Communication? Who was actually "in charge" of the immediate hauling operation (both giving orders and pulling on the rope) at that time--sheriff, rescue team, who? How far had the victim been moved when the anchor failed? What were the results of the failure and fall to the victim? What were the physics of the passage, the slot, and the victim's position in it--both before and after the dropping incident? Is the 'gag order' merely a delaying tactic designed to work out a cover story to mislay somebody's negligence? Those are the details we need. All this secrecy and 'official report' business has left me with some extreme doubt about not only the Sheriff's Department's over-sensitivity to criticism but also about what really took place in Nutty Putty and a deliberate attempt to circumvent the truth. I'm willing to hope and to accept that that may not be what's happening but from my vantage point a few thousand miles away and sketchy, evasive email reports this wishy-washy forthcoming of the details surely has become convoluted within my otherwise open powers of observation and logic--toward the negative. Can anybody else see that?
--Sorry

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--- Begin Message --- 
Below is a trip report from a member of the caving group.

Note that after an hour of just 2 people trying to help the victim,
all but one decided to return to the surface to sing church hymns,
( I presume Mormon hymns. ), while they waited for rescuers
to show up.

Also, note that only two cavers on the trip were skinny enough
to be in the passage, and could not reach the victim.    The kids
or teens were apparently not qualified to go into the squeeze to
help.

__________________________________________________

Nutty Putty Cave Trip Report

I am almost 26 years old .....

This morning I am grieving the loss of John Jones. Someone who I knew
for only a couple of hours, but who is someone I feel very close to
now .....

I was part of 11 people who went to the Nutty Putty Cave on November
24th, 2009, just two days ago. I was invited by a great friend and old
roommate, Josh Jones, to come along with he and a few family members.
I have gone on several caving expeditions with Josh and thought it
would be an enjoyable new cave to visit.

When we entered the cave Josh, John, Jessica (friend of Josh), and I
went first, while two other adults and four teenagers followed behind.
The cave is a geothermal hotspot and so it is very warm and moist in
there. Because of this it was a little more difficult to breath, but
also nice because it was around 30 degree Fahrenheit above ground.

[ My comment:  30 degree Fahrenheit is warm ?   Did he mean Celsius ? ]

We had a map of the cave and got to a part where we couldn't find
where it continued, so we each took a route that looked like it could
be the right way. It is this part of the story that I keep recalling
over and over in my head, because at this point I asked John if he
wanted to explore the spot, which we later would learn is called the
"Ed's Push" area.

[ My comment: Maybe it was called "Bob's Push" ? ]

John went in to the spot face first because he was climbing up, but
then it curved and started heading downwards, then it got too small
for him to push himself backwards up against gravity, so he slid down
further and became wedged. We didn't know he was stuck for several
minutes.

[ My comment:  This explains why the rescue was so difficult ]

Jessica and I waited for Josh to get out of a hole that he was
exploring. When Josh did, we told him (without much thought) to go in
and see if John needed help.

Meanwhile Jessica and I explored two other spots where the cave could
have continued.

[ My comment:    Why did they go off caving somewhere when their buddy
was alone and possibly in a precarious situation ?   Would the end
result have differed, had they acted then ?   Would experienced cavers
done that ?   Would experienced cavers have recognized a need at that
moment for a cave rescue ? ]

The rest of the group joined us at this point. We could not find where
the cave continued, so sat waiting near the area.

After about 15 minutes I hollered to Josh if things were okay. He came
out in a mix of calm and panic and said he was going to go up and call
for help and asked that I go in a comfort John and maybe try to help,
because I was the only "adult" that would fit.

[ My comment:    This clearly shows the victim chose to go head first
down a dangerous tight vertical squeeze when the rest of his group was
not qualified to assist him. ]

[ Also, at this point the group still does not sense the danger ]

So I crawled in above John (it was a very tight spot and I often would
panic because it was difficult to move) and John and I tried several
things to move him up. I did the best I could to keep him in good
spirits by giving him little goals to reach. Mike, John's brother, was
outside of the tight spot talking to me, which I much appreciated
because it helped keep my spirits up.

But after an hour I was becoming tired and scraped up and started to
get psychologically messed up. I crawled out and Josh crawled in to
see what he could do.
I crawled out of the cave and joined everyone else outside of the cave.

[ My comment:    Clearly the author of the report, did everything in
his means to save the life of Mr. Jones. ]

They had all been gathered around the entrance praying and singing
church hymns. The search and rescue vehicles started to show up and we
decided we needed to get the teenagers home. And we felt there was
nothing we could do but get in the way, so a group of us left, leaving
Josh and Mike and another brother-in-law with John.

[ My comment:   Wouldn't it have been better to at least form a human
chain and try to pull on him.     Did they not have any kind of rope
available to try something.    Not even a handline ? ]

[ My comment:   Was it right for the caving group not to assist the rescuers ? ]



For the next 27 hours I followed the news closely and waited...

Then at 2:36 a.m. I received a text from my friend Josh with the
unexpected news that John had passed away.

[ My note:   I left out the rest of the story, which was religious in
nature, and explained how they were dealing with this death from a
spiritual perspective. ]

____________________________________________

My question is what is their definition of a "caving expedition?"

Other question:    After Josh returned to the surface to call 911, did
he rush back to the victim to stay with him until the rescuers arrived
?     That is what it sounds like and is
most probable.    It sounds like Josh did everything on earth to save
his brother.




Here was a new story on the web today:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=8892976

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--- Begin Message --- 
Here is a photo of the entrance before it was sealed:

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/2183828.jpg


The authorities claim the concrete can be removed someday if the need
were to arise.

One news source claimed the rescue cost $ 40,000
and that further attempts would have escalated the
cost.

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--- Begin Message --- 
Hi,
This looks like a good opportunity for us (Austin) cavers to get some self-rescue first aid knowledge... I signed up for the Wilderness First Aid weekend in May: 

http://www.utrecsports.org/outdoor/wildernessleadership/wildernessmedicine/wildernessmedicine.php

Cheers,
David

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- When somebody says, "Wait for the official report," he might just be trying to avoid answering the same stupid question fifty times. Not necessarily a cover-up. -- Mixon 
----------------------------------------
Always forgive your enemies. Nothing annoys them more.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
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--- Begin Message --- 
18 very short video clips of the Winter Tech Regional are posted at:

http://is.gd/5efuQ
The sound is not pertinent as I just shot short clips as people were already talking, etc. These were all shot in high definition (780p), and I will be glad to furnish a n HD copy of a video if anyone wants one. 

Lee Skinner

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500 Nativity Scenes on Display at Mark Twain Cave  Complex
 
By BEV DARR
Hannibal Courier-Post
Posted Dec 05, 2009 @ 07:30 PM
Last update Dec 06, 2009 @ 08:01 PM
 
____________________________________
Hannibal, MO — 
 
“Come to the Manger” is the name of a special event at the Mark Twain Cave 
 Complex, where approximately 500 nativity scenes owned by Beverly and 
Larry  Sileven are on display. The display opened Saturday with special events 
and will  continue on Saturdays and Sundays through Dec. 20.
It will be open from 3  p.m. to 5 p.m. on Sundays, Dec. 6, Dec. 13 and Dec. 
20. The Saturday hours will  be 5 p.m. to 9 p.m., on Dec. 12, and 19.
More details about this huge  collection of nativity scenes will be 
published in the Dec. 8 edition of the  Courier-Post. 
_http://www.hannibal.net/news_local/x1682952912/500-nativity-scenes-on-displ
ay-at-Mark-Twain-Cave-Complex_ 
(http://www.hannibal.net/news_local/x1682952912/500-nativity-scenes-on-display-at-Mark-Twain-Cave-Complex)

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