texascavers Digest 11 Dec 2009 20:35:26 -0000 Issue 911
Topics (messages 12893 through 12898):
Re: Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity -
DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
12893 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
12897 by: Denise P
12898 by: Stefan Creaser
Bexar Grotto Program - John Webb from Australia on Monday, December 14
12894 by: Geary Schindel
Re: crazy ants
12895 by: Mark Minton
Re: Dec 18 Brown Bag - John Webb 0n Mt Gambier karst - Australia at 12:03 PM
12896 by: Geary Schindel
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--- Begin Message ---
Uh-oh, Fritz!
You and Charles better watch it or you'll have started something.
(Wait for it. Wait for it...)
Mark
________________________________
From: Fritz Holt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Fri 12/11/2009 1:35 PM
To: 'Charles Goldsmith'; Alman, Mark @ IRP
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and
Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Maybe we can criminalize the issue (not The Caver) and publish the names of
those who receive it by USPS.:)
A geezer but still electronic.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and
Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Cavers are usually very environment friendly, but I wonder why there
are so many hold outs with the hard copy edition?
Paper, time, money are all wasted with the printed version.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some folks like reading things without a computer involved. Some don' mind.
Some like to keep hardcopies for various reasons. To each his own. I recommend
tolerance for a diversity of views.
-Denise
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:13:07 -0600
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA
> and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
>
> Mark, am sorry you had a bad day with it. I have enjoyed the digital
> copy of the TC and have them backed up safely, knowing that I'll
> always have them :)
>
> Cavers are usually very environment friendly, but I wonder why there
> are so many hold outs with the hard copy edition?
>
> Paper, time, money are all wasted with the printed version.
>
> I'd understand if you are still on dial-up and don't want to view the
> TC online, or if you don't have a computer (can't be reading this
> otherwise).
>
> Charles
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:57 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> > My day yesterday began calmly enough.
> > I woke up from a Benadryl induced haze at around 4 AM and, mistakenly,
> > thought it was Saturday and, for whatever reason, I turned off the alarm on
> > my clock radio.
> >
> > I then proceeded to snooze soundly and woke up 2 hours later but,
> > unfortunately, 45 minutes past the time I should have gotten up for work.
> >
> > After struggling to brush my teeth, take a shower, and drop the kids off at
> > the pool (not necessarily in that order and definitely not at the same
> > time), I dashed down the stairs to get my daily caffeine injection and hit
> > the road.
> >
> > I was greeted in the kitchen by Buddy, our faux Man's Best Friend, and all
> > of the calling cards he had left around the kitchen floor. (He's had
> > digestive issues of late, due to my over-indulgence with him and giving him
> > people food. I suspect the leftover Thanksgiving turkey I gave him earlier
> > in the week. Is green stuff on turkey OK for consumption?).
> >
> > After cleaning up his disgusting mess and hating my life, I stumbled out
> > the door.
> >
> > Ordinarily, I make a ritual of listening to the traffic reports over a
> > pleasant breakfast. But, being in a rush, having no coffee, and having to
> > tap dance around Buddy's little friends on the said linoleum floor, I
> > neglected to pay attention.
> >
> > While barreling down LBJ and munching on the toast and warmed over coffee (I
> > also forgot to set up the coffee machine for yesterday AM!), I ran into a
> > solid traffic jam and, having missed my usual short cut turn off, sat in
> > traffic for nearly an hour before reaching my place of employment.
> >
> > (I love my job, hate the commute, but was most certainly having a better day
> > than the folks involved in the wreck ahead of me, them having needed an
> > ambulance, and all).
> >
> > Finally reaching my desk, I ruminated on my day, thus far, and heaved a sigh
> > of relief for having gotten here in one piece and pleased with FINALLY
> > having mailed out the latest issue of The TEXAS CAVER.
> >
> > (I love our new printer and the quality work they do, but, speed is not one
> > of their best attributes. I sent the files to them Nov. 19th, received HALF
> > of the order December 4th and the other half on the 8th! Thanks USPS!)
> >
> > Thus begins my rant concerning the USPS and why, I implore you, to consider
> > receiving your TC electronically...
> >
> > After a uneventful day of work, including a tortuous three hour meeting and
> > feeling the life force being sucked out of my body and wishing I had a
> > pistol, I headed for home and hearth.
> >
> > This would not be my last pistol-related thought on this day of Our Lord.
> >
> > I was greeted at the door by a turd-free Buddy, the digestively challenged
> > dog, and a lovely pink note from my favorite public servant, the USPS.
> >
> > Having finally mailed out the last TC of the year at a price per newsletter
> > of $3.05, plus $.88 in postage, the lovely Snail Mail folks wanted an
> > additional $.51 per issue before they could be mailed out.
> >
> > Ah, the joy of insufficient postage!
> >
> > My goal of keeping the TC under $4 per issue was shattered!
> >
> > I swore at Buddy the Wonder Dog, cursed every government entity in
> > existence, again questioned my life, grabbed the lil' ol' pink slip,
> > thankfully left my pistol at home (I didn't feel like doing 20 to life at
> > Huntsville for a TEXAS CAVER induced incident) and motored to that 5th level
> > of Hell called "The Post Office Waiting Line at Christmas".
> >
> > Thankfully, the line wasn't THAT long and I only had to wait 20 minutes to
> > be told I was in the wrong line and needed to go the parcel pick up line at
> > the OTHER end of the building.
> >
> > Heart rate rising, I trudged down to that window, waited five minutes for
> > the clerk to come to the window. (The half door was closed and I seriously
> > wondered if anyone was actually behind Door #2) and she took my slip.
> >
> > I waited an additional 10 minutes and looked for the Most Wanted Posters (I
> > always enjoyed looking at these as a kid and, as a currently hot-headed
> > adult, was trying my best to not see my face joining them on this day!).
> >
> > The clerk finally came back and said she couldn't find the 149 newsletters
> > and her manager would look for them unless, of course, they had already gone
> > out.
> >
> > At this point, I would like to mention that insufficient postage has NEVER
> > been an issue with the TC.
> >
> > I waited another five minutes and her boss came out and said that they had
> > not gone out (dammit!) and I would have to go back to the original line, (Do
> > Not Pass Go! and Do Not Collect $200), and pay for the additional postage
> > there.
> >
> > Rolling my eyes skyward and reconsidering the wisdom of leaving my pistol at
> > home, I wandered back to the now considerably longer line, as you'll recall
> > being affectionately referenced as the 5th level of Hell called "The Post
> > Office Waiting Line at Christmas".
> >
> > Having started this odyssey before 4 PM and the clock on this level of Hades
> > now approaching 5 PM, I finally reached the ESL attendant.
> >
> > He had the tub of TC's behind him, along with a note that each TC needed
> > $.51 in additional postage. This puzzled him, for some reason, and he had to
> > spend the next several minutes conferring with his ESL manager.
> >
> > I could feel the daggers being shot from the eyes of the seething Snail Mail
> > Hell prisoners behind me and knew, without a doubt, that they were wishing
> > they hadn't left their pistols at home, as well! Whom they intended to use
> > them on was an object of concern for me.
> >
> > The clerk finally came back and told me that I would need 3 17 cent stamps
> > per newsletter and I would have to take them home, apply them, and bring
> > them back.
> >
> > With my heart rate now reaching dangerous levels, I calmly stated, "Hang on,
> > hoss! Y'all are doing this pleasant chore, not me!"
> >
> > He gave me a look reminiscent of Buddy the Digestively Challenged Dog and
> > had to confer with his boss, once again. This boss stated that they probably
> > wouldn't be going out until the next day and I thought, "No s***, Sherlock!
> > They wouldn't be going out until the next day if I was doing them, either!"
> >
> > This completely befuddled the addled clerk and he had trouble calculating
> > the postage for said TC's.
> >
> > He asked for the fourth time how many newsletters I had to mail ("149", I
> > calmly stated while trying to restrain myself from wrapping my hands around
> > his neck) and I explained to him that one would multiply 149 newsletters X
> > $.51 postage (3X at $.17 per stamp), thus attaining a grand total of $75.99.
> >
> > Cheese and Rice Almighty, you would think I was explaining Quantum Physics
> > to this puzzled Public Servant!
> >
> > After several gyrations, calculations, and scratching of his head and my
> > bald one, the light bulb finally went off with my esteemed attendant.
> >
> > He counted out 447 17 cent stamps, placed them in the tub with YOUR TC,
> > along with a note for the Graveyard Shift at your friendly local USPS
> > querying, "Guess what y'all will be doing in this pleasant evening 14 days
> > before the Birth of Our Lord?!".
> >
> > If the TC you do finally receive appears to have been run over repeatedly by
> > a Brush Hog, you'll know whom to thank.
> >
> > Choking back an insane smirk and a hysterical giggle, I paid the bill while
> > secretly dreading having to ask Darla for an additional check for postage.
> >
> > I thanked the clerk and lowered my head to avoid any of the bullets that
> > would soon be flying towards me from the Snail Mail Hell prisoners that had
> > observed this fiasco.
> >
> > After messing with the lovely folks at the USPS and attempting to pull my
> > hair out, I shockingly discovered that I had been shaving my head for over 8
> > years and had no hair!
> >
> > I managed to avoid any Road Rage incidents on the way home and, having
> > arrived there, proceeded to commemorate this blessed day with six Wild
> > Turkey and Diet Cokes (one must watch their weight during the Holiday
> > season), in quick succession, I might add, while Buddy the Digestively
> > Distressed Dog looked on in disgust with fear and loathing in his canine
> > eyes.
> >
> > So, what is the moral of this Dickensian Christmas Carol, you may ask?
> >
> > My Christmas wish from you is, for the love of whatever Supreme Being You
> > Believe/Don't Believe In, to become a badge wearing member of the online
> > digital TSA community!
> >
> > Go to http://www.cavetexas.org/members/ and sign up and enjoy the current
> > and back issues!
> >
> > Please remember to select how you want your TC: mail or digital. (Please
> > save my last shred of sanity and select the latter!)
> >
> > There now are a total of 17 issues of the Pulitzer worthy TEXAS CAVER
> > available for your reading pleasure and this most certainly is better than
> > any gift you have or will ever receive from one of your loved ones!
> >
> > Not a TSA member? No problem!
> >
> > We still would like for you to contemplate becoming a TSA member. Send me an
> > email for your complimentary past issue of the TEXAS CAVER and see what
> > you've been missing.
> >
> > Visit the TSA website at www.cavetexas.org and become a paid member and/or
> > become an online member of the TSA.
> >
> > You can still opt to receive a hard copy TC, but will have to wait a couple
> > of weeks, at the earliest, to receive your latest newsletter via snail mail.
> >
> > The Members Area continues to expand very well and we currently have grown
> > to 92 members, with 48 opting to receive their TC digitally.
> >
> > This is a substantial savings to the TSA and has helped us manage to stay in
> > the black this year and will keep your esteemed editor out of Huntsville!
> >
> > I have heard from more than one caver that they thoroughly enjoy reading
> > their hard copy of the TC, but then proceed to throw it into the trash.
> >
> > While being environmentally insensitive (they could at least recycle by
> > placing it in the bottom of the kitty box or on the bottom of a human), this
> > makes them the PERFECT candidate for perusing the TC electronically.
> >
> > If this describes you, please make a New Years Resolution and consider
> > becoming an online digital TSA community member!
> >
> > It'll make you feel better, keep me out of the news/incarceration, keep my
> > heart rate low, prevent an incident at the USPS, and keep the pitch fork
> > bearing/torch carrying seething Snail Mail Hell prisoners from storming my
> > house!
> >
> > I appreciate you reading this epic tome and hope y'all have a blessed
> > Christmas, Hanukkah, Solstice, and New Year.
> >
> > No wonder I enjoy caving. None of the above!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Mark Alman - TSA Chairman and TEXAS CAVER Editor
> > (with a tongue-in-cheek tip of the helmet to Hunter S. Thompson and Kinky
> > Friedman)
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I say that those who like reading a hard copy should get a printer, so
the rest of us don't have to pay for their indulgence ;-)
Cheers,
Stefan
From: Denise P [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:25 PM
To: TexasCavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the
TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Some folks like reading things without a computer involved. Some don'
mind. Some like to keep hardcopies for various reasons. To each his own.
I recommend tolerance for a diversity of views.
-Denise
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:13:07 -0600
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of
the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
>
> Mark, am sorry you had a bad day with it. I have enjoyed the digital
> copy of the TC and have them backed up safely, knowing that I'll
> always have them :)
>
> Cavers are usually very environment friendly, but I wonder why there
> are so many hold outs with the hard copy edition?
>
> Paper, time, money are all wasted with the printed version.
>
> I'd understand if you are still on dial-up and don't want to view the
> TC online, or if you don't have a computer (can't be reading this
> otherwise).
>
> Charles
>
--
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please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
John Webb, Ph.D., Associate Professor of Environmental Geosciences from La
Trobe University, Melbourne, in southeastern Australia, will be presenting a
program on caving in the Nullabor Plain in southcentral Australia at the next
Bexar Grotto Meeting (Monday, December 14) at 7 PM at Chester's Hamburgers at
Highway 281 and Mecca Drive in San Antonio. The Nullabor Plain is reported to
be the largest known karst areas in the world and is also home to the longest
single straight stretch of train track in the world. The Nullabor also
contains Cocklebiddie Cave, the site of one of the longest underwater dives as
well as other stunning caves.
Geary Schindel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As others have pointed out, diatomaceous earth kills insects
by cutting their skin and desiccating them. It doesn't absorb their
bodily fluids so much as it allows them to drain away. It works for
cockroaches the same way. Any insect that drags their body through
it is susceptible. It is relatively safe because it is not poisonous
if you ingest a little. DE is mostly silica, so it is not reasonable
to distinguish it from other forms of silica on a chemical
basis. The physical form is what is more important. Silicosis is a
serious problem for miners who breath silica dust. As insecticides
go, it is pretty benign.
Mark Minton
At 01:47 PM 12/11/2009, Fritz Holt wrote:
An interesting part of this string is the mention of diatomaceous
earth. At one time I had an above ground pool and am vaguely
familiar with this very fine white powder used in the filter. If
kept dry, does it actually kill certain pests such as fire ants? I
assume that 'kills mechanically" means that it gets on their feet
and disrupts some bodily function.
Hopefully Mark Minton or someone can give us more detail.
Fritz
You may reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI,
Subject: Dec 18 Brown Bag - John Webb 0n Mt Gambier karst - Australia at 12:03
PM
Edwards Aquifer Philosophical Society -
aka brown bag luncheon
Friday, December 18 at 12:03: PM
Edwards Aquifer Authority
1615 N. St. Mary's Street, San Antonio, TX
We are pleased to announce that Dr. John Webb, LaTrobe University, Victoria,
Australia, will be making a presentation titled The Tertiary Karst Plain Near
Mt. Gambier, Southeastern Australia, and the Origin of the Cenotes There. Mt.
Gambier is a recent volcano located in southern Australia that has emerged
through a limestone terrain.
The presentation will be held on Friday, December 18, at the Edwards Aquifer
Authority. These are informal presentations so please feel free to bring your
lunch. For directions or further information, the Authority may be contacted
at 210-222-2204 or www.edwardsaquifer.org<http://www.edwardsaquifer.org>
Thank you.
Geary Schindel
Chief Technical Officer
Edwards Aquifer Authority
The Tertiary karst plain near Mt Gambier, Southeastern Australia, and the
origin of the cenotes there
John A. Webb
Environmental Geoscience, La Trobe University, Victoria, Australia
Mt Gambier in southeastern Australian lies on a broad, low relief, coastal
limestone plain only 30-40 m asl, lacking any surface drainage network. The
plain is composed of essentially flat lying Eocene - Miocene limestone
deposited on a cool-water open marine shelf, and is made up of sand-sized
fossil fragments with substantial granular porosity. It overlies a calcareous
mudstone aquitard. The limestone thickens to the south and has been offset
along several northwest/southeast faults. Joints in the limestone trend
generally parallel to the faults.
During the Pliocene and Pleistocene the sea covering the area retreated,
leaving behind a series of coastal dunes (former shorelines) ranging in age
from 860,000 years to ~125,000 years old (Last Interglacial). In the Late
Miocene - Early Pliocene a period of active deformation that affected
southeastern Australia caused the northern part of the limestone plain to be
uplifted by 30-40 m. This was followed by a period of volcanic activity that
formed the Mt Burr Range (?mid-Pleistocene) and Mt Gambier (~28,000 years BP)
and Mount Schank (~5,000 BP).
The Mt Gambier limestone plain is punctured by a number of cenotes, that are
circular, cliffed, collapse dolines containing water-table lakes up to 120 m
deep, floored by large rubble cones. Most of the deepest cenotes are
concentrated in two small areas located along trends parallel to the main joint
direction in the limestone. The cenotes do not connect to underwater phreatic
passages, and water chemistry data confirm that they are not part of an
interconnected karst network. They formed by collapse into large chambers (up
to >1 million m3) that extended 125 m or more below the land surface, probably
to the base of the limestone. Several cenotes have actively growing
stromatolites on the subvertical walls that started growing at ~8000 years BP.
The caves that collapsed to form the deep Mt Gambier cenotes did not have an
epiphreatic origin, as they are deeper and much larger than shallow phreatic
caves in the area, and do not connect into deep phreatic systems. They were not
formed by freshwater/seawater mixing, responsible for the well-known Yucatan
cenotes, because they are not associated with locations of the mixing zone
during previous higher sea levels, and are much larger than phreatic caves
forming along the mixing zone at present in the Mt Gambier area. Instead
dissolution was most likely due to a hypogene process whereby acidified
groundwater containing large amounts of volcanogenic CO2 ascended up fractures
from the magma chambers that fed the Pleistocene-Holocene volcanic eruptions in
the area; deep reservoirs of volcanogenic CO2 occur nearby. Cave dissolution
could have been a single event during one of the eruptions.
Short biography
John Webb is Associate Professor of Environmental Geoscience and co-ordinator
of the Environmental Science program at La Trobe University, Melbourne, in
southeastern Australia. He obtained his PhD from University of Queensland. He
teaches courses in hydrology, hydrogeology and water geochemistry at
undergraduate and postgraduate level, as well as courses on landscape and
climate change, and remote sensing and GIS. He has supervised 21 PhD students
and 79 Honours students in a variety of geological and hydrogeological
projects. He has participated in a number of consulting projects, has been an
invited member of expert panels to assess groundwater and contaminated site
management, and has acted as an expert witness in hydrogeology and
hydrogeochemistry in several court cases.
He works on karst geomorphology and neotectonics, particularly of the
Southeastern Australian Highlands, as well as hydrogeology and environmental
geochemistry, mostly relating to dryland salinity and remediation of acid mine
drainage. He has written a number of chapters in general texts about the
geology and geomorphology of Victoria, including karst areas. He has worked on
karst development and karst water chemistry in several areas in Australia:
Nullarbor Plain, southeast SA (Mt Gambier), eastern Victoria (Buchan) and north
Queensland (Chillagoe). He currently has a major hydrogeological project on
the effect of climate and land use change on surface and groundwater resources
in western and central Victoria, supported by the new National Groundwater
Centre for Groundwater Research and Training. His acid mine drainage research
has concentrated on neutralisation using limestone and increasing the chemical
stability (resistance to leaching) of neutralisation sludges.
Contact details:
Environmental Geoscience, La Trobe University, Victoria, 3086.
Phone +61 3 9479 1273
Email [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
www.latrobe.edu.au/envsci/profiles/jwebb.htm
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