texascavers Digest 15 Dec 2009 02:26:11 -0000 Issue 916 Topics (messages 12971 through 12978):
Re: Clean Water Action
12971 by: Logan McNatt
12972 by: Thomas Sitch
12973 by: Fritz Holt
Re: Please Become a Digital Online Member
12974 by: John P. Brooks
12976 by: Gill Edigar
Clarification, and Back to Caving
12975 by: Logan McNatt
Re: TSA, Caver, and Caving
12977 by: Chris Vreeland
Re: Digital vs. Print 2
12978 by: Gill Edigar
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I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx
The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live.
Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include:
"The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas",
"Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy"
"Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy"
"Increase Funding for State Parks"
"Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water"
"Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants"
Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA.
Logan
George Veni wrote:Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven’t seen them much in the past 10 years and don’t know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas.
George
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean WaterRE: Clean Water Action
A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details.
--EdigerDoes anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard of them before and want a better idea of who they are and what they really do.
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--- Begin Message ---"Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy" "Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants" I love political activists who are very specific on shutting down energy production but very vague on creating it, e.g. "Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy" How about "donate to build power lines to the T. Boons Pickins wind farms" or "research fund for cellulosic ethanol." Sorry, what was this about? Clean water? Yes, which goes to caves, and we don't have enough of it. Down with nuclear energy!! ~~T ________________________________ From: Logan McNatt <[email protected]> To: George Veni <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 4:51:20 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live. Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include: "The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas", "Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy" "Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy" "Increase Funding for State Parks" "Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water" "Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants" Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA. Logan ________________________________ George Veni wrote: Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven’t seen them much in the past 10 years and don’t know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas. >George ________________________________ >From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gill >Edigar >Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean Water >RE: Clean Water Action >A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called >'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and >promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water >is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it >would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks >with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with >every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks >and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago >I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked >for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details. >Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, >the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our >cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, >etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard >of them before and want a better idea of who they are and what they really do. > --Ediger >--------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit >our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: >[email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: >[email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---Sorry, I must take an opposing view. I consider myself an environmentalist but if there really is such a thing as "clean" coal technology I am for it. We have plenty of it. I also think that generating electricity from nuclear energy makes good sense. The best solution may be natural gas but our federal government needs to wake up to the fact that to get it we must drill for it as well as for oil as we will never be without the need for this commodity. It is crazy to be importing it from our enemies. No one loves our Texas Hill Country more than I but I don't believe that these activities will be harmful if sensibly regulated which does not mean banning them. I believe that cavers who owned a tract of land would accept a very lucrative offer to lease it for oil and gas exploration. That's not greed, its good sense. Let the naysayers come forth. Fritz ________________________________ From: Thomas Sitch [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action "Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy" "Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants" I love political activists who are very specific on shutting down energy production but very vague on creating it, e.g. "Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy" How about "donate to build power lines to the T. Boons Pickins wind farms" or "research fund for cellulosic ethanol." Sorry, what was this about? Clean water? Yes, which goes to caves, and we don't have enough of it. Down with nuclear energy!! ~~T ________________________________ From: Logan McNatt <[email protected]> To: George Veni <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 4:51:20 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live. Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include: "The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas", "Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy" "Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy" "Increase Funding for State Parks" "Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water" "Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants" Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA. Logan ________________________________ George Veni wrote: Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven't seen them much in the past 10 years and don't know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas. George ________________________________ From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean Water RE: Clean Water Action A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details. Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard of them before and want a better idea of who they are and what they really do. --Ediger --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---I want to save the TSA from financial ruin....I will go digital if Ediger renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > Welcome back, Karen! > > Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin! > >
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--- Begin Message ---On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks <[email protected]> wrote: > I want to save the TSA from financial ruin....I will go digital if Ediger > renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? > Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and donate $100 to the TSA within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free publication to any caver who wants to sign up for a free subscription. Subscribing non-TSA members should be solicited to join TSA but membership should not be a requirement for receiving all the good caving information aimed at bettering the cause of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I, personally, would want every caver in Texas to be reading TSA promotional material, safety information, articles about equipment and techniques, cave science, upcoming events which they can support by attending, trip and cave reports, and participating personally by attending TSA conventions and contributing articles to The TEXAS CAVER themselves, all of which will also benefit ME. I am selfish. I want all of these non-TSA members to read The TEXAS CAVER because I will benefit from them being more informed and better cavers. They do not have to be TSA members to be better cavers. But they can be better cavers, and well qualified and participating members of the Texas caving community, if they simply read and contribute to The TEXAS CAVER. And their participation is good for me, it is good for you, and it is good for Texas caving. That is probably the most valuable service the TSA can provide to cavers and caving in Texas--keeping EVERYONE informed so they can be a better participant in Texas caving. I coined a phrase in 1969, "As The TEXAS CAVER goes, so goes the TSA." I think that is still true today. If The TEXAS CAVER is made available to all Texas cavers digitally and free then we will see a much better informed group of Texas cavers taking the bait to become members of the TSA and helping it reach it's selfish aims and purposes--a major part of which is promoting Texas caving--for ALL of us, not just the few. The time has finally come, my fellow Texas cavers, to do something for our selfish selves. It costs the TSA nothing to give The TEXAS CAVER away digitally. It costs the TSA and Texas caving a lot not to. If you want to do something selfish for yourself and for all the other Texas cavers vote at your earliest opportunity to separate The CAVER from TSA membership, to make it free to any digital subscriber. Otherwise, we're just preaching to the choir. Yours in Texas caving (for nearly 43 years now), --Ediger On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P. Brooks <[email protected]>wrote: > I want to save the TSA from financial ruin....I will go digital if Ediger > renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make that commitment? > > > > On 12/14/09 1:14 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Welcome back, Karen! > > Now, if we could only get Ediger to rejoin! > > > >
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Fritz, Thomas, and All,
I should have made it clear that I was not advocating that cavers should support Clean Water Action or agree with all of its ideas. I was just trying to describe who they are and what they do, in response to Gill's initial query and the follow-up responses. I agree with some of the points you made, and the last thing I want to do is start a(nother) never-ending discussion on this list about issues that are so controversial and unresolvable.
So, let's get back to caves and caving. I know there was a Colorado Bend project this weekend, and a TCMA meeting. Anyone want to give a brief report on those events? Anyone else go caving? Please, someone, anyone.
Logan
P.S. Thomas, tell me more about using cellulose for ethanol (OFFLINE)! ;)
Fritz Holt wrote:Sorry, I must take an opposing view. I consider myself an environmentalist but if there really is such a thing as “clean” coal technology I am for it. We have plenty of it. I also think that generating electricity from nuclear energy makes good sense. The best solution may be natural gas but our federal government needs to wake up to the fact that to get it we must drill for it as well as for oil as we will never be without the need for this commodity. It is crazy to be importing it from our enemies. No one loves our Texas Hill Country more than I but I don’t believe that these activities will be harmful if sensibly regulated which does not mean banning them. I believe that cavers who owned a tract of land would accept a very lucrative offer to lease it for oil and gas exploration. That’s not greed, its good sense. Let the naysayers come forth.
Fritz
From: Thomas Sitch [mailto:[email protected]]Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action"Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels ', and Georgetown 's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy"
"Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants"
I love political activists who are very specific on shutting down energy production but very vague on creating it, e.g.
"Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy"
How about "donate to build power lines to the T. Boons Pickins wind farms" or "research fund for cellulosic ethanol."
Sorry, what was this about? Clean water? Yes, which goes to caves, and we don't have enough of it. Down with nuclear energy!!
~~T
From: Logan McNatt <[email protected]>
To: George Veni <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 4:51:20 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action
I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin : http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx
The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live.
Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include:
"The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas",
"Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy"
"Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels ', and Georgetown 's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy"
"Increase Funding for State Parks"
"Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water"
"Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants"
Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA.
LoganGeorge Veni wrote:
Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven’t seen them much in the past 10 years and don’t know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas.
George
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean WaterRE: Clean Water Action
A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details.
Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin , the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard of them before and want a better idea of who they are and what they really do.
--Ediger
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- Begin Message --- I just got my gorgeous hard copy of the Caver in the mail today, and have to say that as an old fart, I really like getting publications in the mail at seemingly random intervals, and sitting down in a chair to read them. Then, I enjoy putting them on my bookshelf.One thing I do not enjoy is driving to Office Max to stock up on ink cartridges.If it takes another $5.00 a year to keep them coming, I think I can skip a pack of cigarettes in order to make that happen.BTW, Thanks Mark, for an excellent issue! As a former editor, I thought i knew all about the unsung heroics of editing, but your tale of woe tops them all. Please keep up the good work!On Dec 14, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Linda Palit wrote:I believe the problem with the bulk rate has been that we are not sending out enough copies to get the bulk rate. The truth is, also, that print media is in decline. I believe that it is probably time to revisit the two-tier membership option and gradually phase that in.From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:39 AM To: [email protected]; TexasCavers Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Digital vs. PrintI'm in the process of pursuing the bulk mail rate/permit for us, Logan, as I plan on continuing to do the newsletter for the foreseeable future.(Sorry to tell y'all that!) From: Logan McNatt [mailto:[email protected]]I am one of those antiquated bibliophiles who prefers a hard copy of The Texas Caver, but I certainly support the use of electronic copies for all that prefer them. I would be willing to pay the extra cost of printed issues.
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--- Begin Message ---No. No idea. Affordable, though, I'm sure. The point is that anybody could print out a fast and dirty B&W copy on their cheapass home (or office) printer for scanning in the privacy of their own bedrooms and then have Kinkos do up a slick and shiny copy for their sanctified library file--say get all 4 issues done once a year and made up into a single volume. Huh? Check out the latest bindings, maybe? --Ediger On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Charles Goldsmith <[email protected]>wrote: > Thats a good point Gil, any idea on the costs for that? I've never needed > to. > > Thanks! > Charles > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Gill Edigar <[email protected]> wrote: > > Don't anyone forget that you can download your digital TEXAS CAVER file > onto > > your memory stick, take it to Kinkos or Office Depot and have it color > laser > > printed HARD COPY just like the editor does and save the TSA all that > > postage and printing cost--and save the editor a lot of mental and > physical > > hassle. It's the best of both worlds. > > --Ediger > > > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Logan McNatt <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> I am one of those antiquated bibliophiles who prefers a hard copy of The > >> Texas Caver, but I certainly support the use of electronic copies for > all > >> that prefer them. I would be willing to pay the extra cost of printed > >> issues. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >
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