texascavers Digest 18 Dec 2009 14:34:05 -0000 Issue 927

Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:34:13 -0800 (PST) 

texascavers Digest 18 Dec 2009 14:34:05 -0000 Issue 927

Topics (messages 13085 through 13100):

Re: Can TSA be trusted with email addresses?
        13085 by: Chris Vreeland
        13087 by: Don Arburn
        13092 by: Rod Goke

Re: Why join TSA?
        13086 by: Gill Edigar
        13089 by: Gill Edigar
        13091 by: Logan McNatt
        13093 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
        13094 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
        13095 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
        13096 by: ellie :)
        13097 by: Lyndon Tiu
        13098 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
        13099 by: Lyndon Tiu
        13100 by: Gill Edigar

Cave Tex and texascavers archives
        13088 by: Bill Bentley
        13090 by: Gill Edigar

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
        <[email protected]>

To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
        <[email protected]>

To post to the list, e-mail:
        <[email protected]>


----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message --- 
I have yet to have a piece of paper run out of batteries.

On Dec 16, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Gill Edigar wrote:
GPS is OK if you have coordinates, etc handy. But still not nearly as handy, while talking on the phone, as a pencil and a note in the margin: SB 37, Smithson exit, 1.2 m, L Concho St, 3 blk, RT Gibson, 2 blk, 2608, bat stkr. No where near as handy. GPS is a good tool for serious work, a good toy for just messing around, but a lot of extra work for just getting to some simple place when basic directions will suffice--way overrated. 
--Ediger
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Stefan Creaser <[email protected] > wrote: 
You need to write down directions?! That’s what a GPS is for…
I agree that an electronic publication can/should be downloaded to the electronic devices we all carry now-a-days . 


Stefan

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I don't know about y'all, but my NSS News & Texas Caver live on the toilet tank for a few weeks as browsing material during my peaceful moments on the throne. 

I can't imagine reading The Caver on my iPhone.


Don's iPhone.
On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Chris Vreeland <[email protected]> wrote: 


I have yet to have a piece of paper run out of batteries.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
And after you've finished reading them on the toilet, how do use them?

Just curious, but not sure we really want to know,

Rod

-----Original Message-----
>From: Don Arburn <[email protected]>
>Sent: Dec 17, 2009 11:34 PM
>To: 
>Cc: texascavers Texas <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Can TSA be trusted with email addresses?
>
>I don't know about y'all, but my NSS News & Texas Caver live on the  
>toilet tank for a few weeks as browsing material during my peaceful  
>moments on the throne.
>
>I can't imagine reading The Caver on my iPhone.
>
>
>Don's iPhone.
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Well, I have my own reasons for supporting the TSA for 40 years, but I was
hoping to develop some positive reasons that other cavers join the TSA. I
already know why I belonged and will again, but I have had a hard time
getting other cavers to tell me why and what they would tell new cavers were
good reasons to join. Many just stutter and stammer and can't think of any.
Others have given me perfectly good reasons--which I will share as soon as I
feel I have enough.

And, ugh, this is a totally different topic, Linda. The other one has been
put to bed for a while. It is a positive thread designed to help the TSA
 accomplish its goals. I think it's really important for people to think
about all sides of the issues rather than just blindly supporting one or
another view. Having adequate information surely can't hurt.  And, besides,
I'm just curious and have talked to several other people who asked the same
questions.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit <[email protected]> wrote:

>  Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many years
> ago?
>
>
>
> And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for awhile?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
> *Gill Edigar
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
>
>
>
> The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement
> has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason
> for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked
> again--and fairly soon, I think.
>
>
>
> Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a
> couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with
> no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the
> attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for
> absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it
> that would make you do so?
>
>
>
> Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was
> it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help
> solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about
> proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or
> improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment
> or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find
> out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving
> with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving
> adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about
> caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a
> joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that
> lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a
> membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want
> to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the
> TSA Chairman your responses.
>
>
>
> Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS
> CAVER, does the TSA provide for you  in the way of  goods and services and
> warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not
> at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to
> your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include
> information about your feelings.
>
>
>
> The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the
> questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in the
> TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join
> the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those who
> want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who
> asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be
> considered an option in this poll.
>
>
>
> Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of
> you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known perhaps
> something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA more
> attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake that
> it is not doing now?
>
>
>
> As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me to
> join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to members.
> Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the time
> over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to send me
> your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that could be
> valuable to the future of Texas caving.
>
>
>
> And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark
>
>     <[email protected]>
>
> so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas
> caver recruiting program which I'm sure they will be interested in
> starting.
>
>
>
> I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and hope to
> see you at the convention and renew my membership and write up a summary for
> The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of Texas to see.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm,
>
> --Ediger
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Oh, it's not about the money, Diana. Remember that I'm gonna make a further
$100 donation when I do rejoin. It's about making a positive change in Texas
caving. But don't forget to consider that when I join the TSA I might just
be compelled to write even more really long email messages since I would
then be a responsible member with ideas of how things could be improved. If
I might digress into humor here a moment, "Why do you even have an inbox if
not to receive mail?" No, Diana, it boils down to being a matter of
communication--and I don't just mean emails.

A lot of the long email are because people don't delete the previous
messages before they post theirs.

I'm behind you all the way.
Keep up the good work,
--Ediger

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Diana Tomchick <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Better yet--if I volunteer to pay your dues, Gill, will you just join the
> TSA and stop writing really long email messages that clog up my inbox?
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I'll pay half, Diana.

Diana Tomchick wrote:
Better yet--if I volunteer to pay your dues, Gill, will you just join the TSA and stop writing really long email messages that clog up my inbox? 

Diana

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gill's messages are hardly long. Archimedes Plutonium & Serd$r Arg!c used to send long messages.
 
T


Dec 17, 2009 08:37:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Better yet--if I volunteer to pay your dues, Gill, will you just join
the TSA and stop writing really long email messages that clog up my
inbox?

Diana

On Dec 17, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit wrote:

> Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many
> years ago?
>
> And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for
> awhile?
>
>
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of Gill Edigar
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
>
> The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The
> statement has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there
> would be no reason for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are
> destined to be asked again--and fairly soon, I think.
>
> Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the
> TSA a couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about
> joining--with no real material premiums being offered. What made
> them do it? What was the attraction of the TSA in their lives to
> make them fork over hard cash for absolutely nothing they could hold
> in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it that would make you do so?
>
> Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other
> cavers? Was it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to
> share and help solve common problems--problems of educating you and
> other cavers about proper landowner relations, of safety
> considerations, of learning or improved methods of cave surveying,
> of learning about new caving equipment or techniques, of taking and
> sharing photographs with other cavers, to find out about new caves
> to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving with, to attend
> projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving adventures
> around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about
> caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire
> to be a joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA
> providing to cavers that lead them to join the TSA without a hard
> copy of anything other than a membership list? In order to try to
> get to the heart of that matter, I want to ask Texas cavers to
> answer that question themselves--and send me and the TSA Chairman
> your responses.
>
> Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The
> TEXAS CAVER, does the TSA provide for you in the way of goods and
> services and warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for
> you--or worse, or not at all. Let's have some information--brief or
> in detail. We're sensitive to your emotions about TSA and Texas
> caving as well, so please include information about your feelings.
>
> The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer
> the questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my
> membership in the TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long
> list of reasons to join the TSA will be generated by this request
> and it can be handed to those who want to know, or explained in
> person. What would you tell a new caver who asked you those
> questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be considered an
> option in this poll.
>
> Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that
> several of you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that
> were known perhaps something could be done to address those
> shortcomings and make the TSA more attractive. Or, what would you
> like to see the TSA offer or undertake that it is not doing now?
>
> As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince
> me to join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits
> to members. Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know.
> Please take the time over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be
> in Mexico caving) to send me your reasons--for or against joining
> the TSA. It's information that could be valuable to the future of
> Texas caving.
>
> And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark
>
> so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the
> Texas caver recruiting program which I'm sure they will be
> interested in starting.
>
> I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and
> hope to see you at the convention and renew my membership and write
> up a summary for The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of
> Texas to see.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm,
> --Ediger

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: [email protected]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I'll keep it short. I'm a TSA member because:

* Caving is a life-long interest of mine, so I support my statewide organization
* I am a member of the NSS, and the TSA is a region of the NSS
* I like it that funds are available through the TSA for worthwhile projects 
such as:
   - Punkin and Deep Caves
   - Monetary support of the ICS
   - A grant to refurbish the Honey Creek Cave tower to make it safe again
* I like receiving the Texas Caver. There aren't many caver newsletters other 
than it in Texas.

Bill

---- Gill Edigar <[email protected]> wrote: 
> Well, I have my own reasons for supporting the TSA for 40 years, but I was
> hoping to develop some positive reasons that other cavers join the TSA. I
> already know why I belonged and will again, but I have had a hard time
> getting other cavers to tell me why and what they would tell new cavers were
> good reasons to join. Many just stutter and stammer and can't think of any.
> Others have given me perfectly good reasons--which I will share as soon as I
> feel I have enough.
> 
> And, ugh, this is a totally different topic, Linda. The other one has been
> put to bed for a while. It is a positive thread designed to help the TSA
>  accomplish its goals. I think it's really important for people to think
> about all sides of the issues rather than just blindly supporting one or
> another view. Having adequate information surely can't hurt.  And, besides,
> I'm just curious and have talked to several other people who asked the same
> questions.
> 
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >  Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many years
> > ago?
> >
> >
> >
> > And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for awhile?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
> > *Gill Edigar
> > *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM
> > *To:* [email protected]
> > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
> >
> >
> >
> > The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement
> > has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason
> > for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked
> > again--and fairly soon, I think.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a
> > couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with
> > no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the
> > attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for
> > absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it
> > that would make you do so?
> >
> >
> >
> > Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was
> > it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help
> > solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about
> > proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or
> > improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment
> > or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find
> > out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving
> > with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving
> > adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about
> > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a
> > joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that
> > lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a
> > membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want
> > to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the
> > TSA Chairman your responses.
> >
> >
> >
> > Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS
> > CAVER, does the TSA provide for you  in the way of  goods and services and
> > warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not
> > at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to
> > your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include
> > information about your feelings.
> >
> >
> >
> > The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the
> > questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in the
> > TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join
> > the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those who
> > want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who
> > asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be
> > considered an option in this poll.
> >
> >
> >
> > Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of
> > you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known perhaps
> > something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA more
> > attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake that
> > it is not doing now?
> >
> >
> >
> > As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me to
> > join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to members.
> > Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the time
> > over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to send me
> > your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that could be
> > valuable to the future of Texas caving.
> >
> >
> >
> > And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark
> >
> >     <[email protected]>
> >
> > so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas
> > caver recruiting program which I'm sure they will be interested in
> > starting.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and hope to
> > see you at the convention and renew my membership and write up a summary for
> > The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of Texas to see.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm,
> >
> > --Ediger
> >

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Thanks, Bill, for your long time membership, service, and support!
 
Thanks, too, for mentioning the Honey Creek refurbish. I had forgotten about 
that.
 
 
Have a safe trip to Mexico and Feliz Navidad!
 
 
 
Mark
 
 

________________________________

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Fri 12/18/2009 6:29 AM
To: Linda Palit; Gill Edigar
Cc: [email protected]; Alman, Mark @ IRP
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?



I'll keep it short. I'm a TSA member because:

* Caving is a life-long interest of mine, so I support my statewide organization
* I am a member of the NSS, and the TSA is a region of the NSS
* I like it that funds are available through the TSA for worthwhile projects 
such as:
   - Punkin and Deep Caves
   - Monetary support of the ICS
   - A grant to refurbish the Honey Creek Cave tower to make it safe again
* I like receiving the Texas Caver. There aren't many caver newsletters other 
than it in Texas.

Bill

---- Gill Edigar <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, I have my own reasons for supporting the TSA for 40 years, but I was
> hoping to develop some positive reasons that other cavers join the TSA. I
> already know why I belonged and will again, but I have had a hard time
> getting other cavers to tell me why and what they would tell new cavers were
> good reasons to join. Many just stutter and stammer and can't think of any.
> Others have given me perfectly good reasons--which I will share as soon as I
> feel I have enough.
>
> And, ugh, this is a totally different topic, Linda. The other one has been
> put to bed for a while. It is a positive thread designed to help the TSA
>  accomplish its goals. I think it's really important for people to think
> about all sides of the issues rather than just blindly supporting one or
> another view. Having adequate information surely can't hurt.  And, besides,
> I'm just curious and have talked to several other people who asked the same
> questions.
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >  Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many years
> > ago?
> >
> >
> >
> > And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for awhile?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
> > *Gill Edigar
> > *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM
> > *To:* [email protected]
> > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
> >
> >
> >
> > The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The statement
> > has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no reason
> > for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked
> > again--and fairly soon, I think.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA a
> > couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about joining--with
> > no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was the
> > attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash for
> > absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What is it
> > that would make you do so?
> >
> >
> >
> > Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers? Was
> > it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help
> > solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about
> > proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or
> > improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving equipment
> > or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to find
> > out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving
> > with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving
> > adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks about
> > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to be a
> > joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers that
> > lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a
> > membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I want
> > to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and the
> > TSA Chairman your responses.
> >
> >
> >
> > Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS
> > CAVER, does the TSA provide for you  in the way of  goods and services and
> > warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or not
> > at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're sensitive to
> > your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include
> > information about your feelings.
> >
> >
> >
> > The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the
> > questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in the
> > TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to join
> > the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those who
> > want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver who
> > asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be
> > considered an option in this poll.
> >
> >
> >
> > Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several of
> > you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known perhaps
> > something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA more
> > attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake that
> > it is not doing now?
> >
> >
> >
> > As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me to
> > join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to members.
> > Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the time
> > over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to send me
> > your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that could be
> > valuable to the future of Texas caving.
> >
> >
> >
> > And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark
> >
> >     <[email protected]>
> >
> > so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas
> > caver recruiting program which I'm sure they will be interested in
> > starting.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and hope to
> > see you at the convention and renew my membership and write up a summary for
> > The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of Texas to see.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm,
> >
> > --Ediger
> >

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Would you consider increasing your pledge to $1000? That amount
carries a little more weight.
I joined the TSA because Lyndon told me to at TCR registration last
year. I had only been caving one month and joined w/out even knowing
the Texas Caver was included in the price.
I stay in TSA because its members are loyal and dedicated to caves and
are the kind of people who make things happen. The kind of people I
want to associate w/ and work w/ to continue improving caving for our
state.

On 12/17/09, Gill Edigar <[email protected]> wrote:
> Oh, it's not about the money, Diana. Remember that I'm gonna make a further
> $100 donation when I do rejoin. It's about making a positive change in Texas
> caving. But don't forget to consider that when I join the TSA I might just
> be compelled to write even more really long email messages since I would
> then be a responsible member with ideas of how things could be improved. If
> I might digress into humor here a moment, "Why do you even have an inbox if
> not to receive mail?" No, Diana, it boils down to being a matter of
> communication--and I don't just mean emails.
>
> A lot of the long email are because people don't delete the previous
> messages before they post theirs.
>
> I'm behind you all the way.
> Keep up the good work,
> --Ediger
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Diana Tomchick <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Better yet--if I volunteer to pay your dues, Gill, will you just join the
>> TSA and stop writing really long email messages that clog up my inbox?
>>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
On 12/18/2009 8:21 AM, ellie :) wrote:

I joined the TSA because Lyndon told me to



That's the single most important reason to join the TSA. Case closed.

--
Lyndon Tiu

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
And by God, you better do what Lyndon tells you to do!  8^)>
 
He has that special kind of power that TSA needs!
 
 
(Now you know why Allan has Lyndon working Registration at TCR and Lyndon has 
volunteered to run it at the Spring Convention).
 
 
Merry Christmas, Lyndon!
 
 
Mark
 

________________________________

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Fri 12/18/2009 8:21 AM
To: Gill Edigar
Cc: Diana Tomchick; Linda Palit; [email protected]; Alman, Mark @ IRP
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Why join TSA?




I joined the TSA because Lyndon told me to at TCR registration last
year.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
On 12/18/2009 8:24 AM, [email protected] wrote:

And by God, you better do what Lyndon tells you to do!  8^)>
He has that special kind of power that TSA needs!
(Now you know why Allan has Lyndon working Registration at TCR and
Lyndon has volunteered to run it at the Spring Convention).


Yes, that's my job, to lure unsuspecting cavers into the collective.

--
Lyndon Tiu

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Now that's the sort of reasons I'm looking for, Bill, thanks. And thanks for
taking this survey seriously.
--Ediger

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:29 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'll keep it short. I'm a TSA member because:
>
> * Caving is a life-long interest of mine, so I support my statewide
> organization
> * I am a member of the NSS, and the TSA is a region of the NSS
> * I like it that funds are available through the TSA for worthwhile
> projects such as:
>   - Punkin and Deep Caves
>   - Monetary support of the ICS
>   - A grant to refurbish the Honey Creek Cave tower to make it safe again
> * I like receiving the Texas Caver. There aren't many caver newsletters
> other than it in Texas.
>
> Bill
>
> ---- Gill Edigar <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Well, I have my own reasons for supporting the TSA for 40 years, but I
> was
> > hoping to develop some positive reasons that other cavers join the TSA. I
> > already know why I belonged and will again, but I have had a hard time
> > getting other cavers to tell me why and what they would tell new cavers
> were
> > good reasons to join. Many just stutter and stammer and can't think of
> any.
> > Others have given me perfectly good reasons--which I will share as soon
> as I
> > feel I have enough.
> >
> > And, ugh, this is a totally different topic, Linda. The other one has
> been
> > put to bed for a while. It is a positive thread designed to help the TSA
> >  accomplish its goals. I think it's really important for people to think
> > about all sides of the issues rather than just blindly supporting one or
> > another view. Having adequate information surely can't hurt.  And,
> besides,
> > I'm just curious and have talked to several other people who asked the
> same
> > questions.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Linda Palit <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > >  Why do I get the feeling you have decided this many times, and many
> years
> > > ago?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And does this mean we are taking this discussion off the list for
> awhile?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
> Behalf Of
> > > *Gill Edigar
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:11 PM
> > > *To:* [email protected]
> > > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Why join TSA?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The question has come up before: "Why should I join the TSA?" The
> statement
> > > has been made: "If it weren't for The TEXAS CAVER there would be no
> reason
> > > for me to be a TSA member." Both questions are destined to be asked
> > > again--and fairly soon, I think.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yet way before publication of The TEXAS CAVER was taken over by the TSA
> a
> > > couple of hundred Texas cavers were quite enthusiastic about
> joining--with
> > > no real material premiums being offered. What made them do it? What was
> the
> > > attraction of the TSA in their lives to make them fork over hard cash
> for
> > > absolutely nothing they could hold in their grubby, muddy hands? What
> is it
> > > that would make you do so?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Was it just the camaraderie of sharing a social link with other cavers?
> Was
> > > it the sense of responsibility to the caver community to share and help
> > > solve common problems--problems of educating you and other cavers about
> > > proper landowner relations, of safety considerations, of learning or
> > > improved methods of cave surveying, of learning about new caving
> equipment
> > > or techniques, of taking and sharing photographs with other cavers, to
> find
> > > out about new caves to explore, to create a list of cavers to go caving
> > > with, to attend projects, to have an audience for telling one's caving
> > > adventures around a campfire, to attend the convention to hear talks
> about
> > > caves and caving gear and cave science or get laid, or just a desire to
> be a
> > > joiner? What was the Texas Region and later the TSA providing to cavers
> that
> > > lead them to join the TSA without a hard copy of anything other than a
> > > membership list? In order to try to get to the heart of that matter, I
> want
> > > to ask Texas cavers to answer that question themselves--and send me and
> the
> > > TSA Chairman your responses.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Why are you a TSA member? Or, why are you not? What, beside The TEXAS
> > > CAVER, does the TSA provide for you  in the way of  goods and services
> and
> > > warm fuzzies and how might it make caving better for you--or worse, or
> not
> > > at all. Let's have some information--brief or in detail. We're
> sensitive to
> > > your emotions about TSA and Texas caving as well, so please include
> > > information about your feelings.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The time will come, soon I hope, when the TSA will need to answer the
> > > questions, "Why should I join the TSA?" and "What has my membership in
> the
> > > TSA got to offer me as a caver?" Hopefully a long list of reasons to
> join
> > > the TSA will be generated by this request and it can be handed to those
> who
> > > want to know, or explained in person. What would you tell a new caver
> who
> > > asked you those questions? Remember, The TEXAS CAVER should not be
> > > considered an option in this poll.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Along the same lines it would be good to know the reasons that several
> of
> > > you haven't joined or don't want to join the TSA. If that were known
> perhaps
> > > something could be done to address those shortcomings and make the TSA
> more
> > > attractive. Or, what would you like to see the TSA offer or undertake
> that
> > > it is not doing now?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As a current non-member I would like for you as a member to convince me
> to
> > > join again--sell me on the TSA and its merits and its benefits to
> members.
> > > Or, you can tell me why I shouldn't. I want to know. Please take the
> time
> > > over the next couple of holiday weeks (I'll be in Mexico caving) to
> send me
> > > your reasons--for or against joining the TSA. It's information that
> could be
> > > valuable to the future of Texas caving.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And while you're at it be sure to cc: Mark
> > >
> > >     <[email protected]>
> > >
> > > so he can have the information for future use by the TSA and the Texas
> > > caver recruiting program which I'm sure they will be interested in
> > > starting.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'll compile your answers and see if the pros outweigh the cons and
> hope to
> > > see you at the convention and renew my membership and write up a
> summary for
> > > The TEXAS CAVER to publish and all the cavers of Texas to see.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for your help and enthusiasm,
> > >
> > > --Ediger
> > >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
29,860 messages sent to Cavetex and Texascavers since 1997, Wow!

This one will make 29,861 total to date.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I'm trying to cut down.
--Ediger

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Bill Bentley <[email protected]> wrote:

> 29,860 messages sent to Cavetex and Texascavers since 1997, Wow!
>
> This one will make 29,861 total to date.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>

--- End Message ---

Reply via email to