texascavers Digest 4 Nov 2009 02:55:15 -0000 Issue 881 Topics (messages 12496 through 12517):
Maio Keng, China
12496 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
Re: Punkin in the news
12497 by: Louise Power
12498 by: Louise Power
TSA Fall Meeting Minutes
12499 by: Denise P
Re: Jim White statue to be unveiled at NCKRI :
12500 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
Server donation
12501 by: Charles Goldsmith
12508 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
12510 by: George-Paul Richmann
12511 by: Charles Goldsmith
Re: [NMCAVER] Hopsital stay
12502 by: Bill Bentley
a place to live
12503 by: Gill Edigar
San Saba power line
12504 by: caverarch.aol.com
Chinese cave
12505 by: Mixon Bill
UT Grotto - Wed Nov 4
12506 by: Gary Franklin
ICS session photos
12507 by: philipmoss
500-m abseil
12509 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
rebelays
12512 by: Mixon Bill
12516 by: Mark Minton
kids gear
12513 by: Ron Rutherford
cubicle candy and Golondrinas Pit Rope
12514 by: Robert B
Competition
12515 by: Ron Ralph
Re: A word to the wise from TagNet
12517 by: caverarch.aol.com
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--- Begin Message ---Here is an excerpt from an off-line communication I have had with Bill Mixon. It summarizes some things that might be of more general interest. The reference is DESCENT, # 194 Feb/Mar 2007, p. 30-32 ----------------------------------------------- We were not actually AT Maio Keng, but close. Besides, I’m long past even thinking about coming back up out of monsters like this. This cave almost (30 m short) connects to the Tianxing Dongxue Xitong (Tianxing Cave System), the deepest and fourth longest presently known in China (1020 m depth with 35,480 m total survey). Chances are good that they will make that connection in the future. You could actually rig this thing as a 491 plus (probably climb up and make it over 500 m) underground free drop. They typically use skinny ropes (because of the weight of larger tackle) so have a bit more stretch than we are used to. A whole bunch of rebellays makes a lot of sense on pitches like these. A neighbor (Da Keng -775 m depth with 4,273 m total survey) has a 519 m entrance drop, but it’s open to the surface and has numerous ledges, not that (that) makes much of a difference to me. We were in a large horizontal cave at the level of the bottom of Maio Keng. The horizontal passages are --- 30-50 m wide and a bit taller. So poorly decorated that you could actually see the bedrock stratigraphy in some places. You tend to get a little jaded caving here. Thanks. The SW Region has asked me to make a presentation at their Winter Technical Meeting in Albuquerque Dec 5, and I will shortly start putting together a presentation. I want to have my facts straight. DirtDoc
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--- Begin Message ---Apparently if you're not a member of the Nittany Grotto, you can't get in to read their newsletters. From: [email protected] To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] List-Post: [email protected] Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:05:51 -0600 Subject: [Texascavers] Punkin in the news Cavers, There is an article about caving Punkin and Deep in the last issue of the Nittany Grotto News, Vol. 55 No. 2. The article can be accessed via the internet by going to www.caves.org/grotto/nittany and following the links. Use the following user name and password: “guest” and “exchange” The color photos are nice and the cave report informative. You wall also find other articles about the ICS and a photo of Jack Stellmack for you old-timers. You may also be amazed at the list of members who include 3 Texicans. The Texas Speleological Survey has copies of back issues of this newsletter plus a hundred more if you care to visit the office in Austin. Ron
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--- Begin Message ---Well, as usual, I didn't read down far enough to get the id/password. Sorry. From: [email protected] To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] List-Post: [email protected] Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 10:21:44 -0800 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Punkin in the news Apparently if you're not a member of the Nittany Grotto, you can't get in to read their newsletters. From: [email protected] To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] List-Post: [email protected] Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:05:51 -0600 Subject: [Texascavers] Punkin in the news Cavers, There is an article about caving Punkin and Deep in the last issue of the Nittany Grotto News, Vol. 55 No. 2. The article can be accessed via the internet by going to www.caves.org/grotto/nittany and following the links. Use the following user name and password: “guest” and “exchange” The color photos are nice and the cave report informative. You wall also find other articles about the ICS and a photo of Jack Stellmack for you old-timers. You may also be amazed at the list of members who include 3 Texicans. The Texas Speleological Survey has copies of back issues of this newsletter plus a hundred more if you care to visit the office in Austin. Ron
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--- Begin Message ---The minutes from the 10/18/2009 TSA meeting are on the website at: http://cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html. Thanks, Denise TSA Secretary _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
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Recitation:
Once upon a time...
Sometime ago back on the east coast
In New York City, to be exact...
A bunch of artists and painters and
sculptors and musicians and
poets and writers and dancers
and architects
Started feeling real superior
to their ego-counter-parts
Out on the West Coast...so,
They all got together and decided
They would show those snotty surfer upstarts
A thing or two about the Big Apple
And...they hired themselves a truck
It was a big, spanking new white-shiny
Chrome-plated cab-over
Peterbilt...
With mudflaps, stereo, tv, AM & FM radio,
Leather seats and a naugahide sleeper...
All fresh
With new American Flag decals and "ART ARK"
Printed on the side of the door
With solid 24 karat gold leaf type...
And they filled up this truck
With the most significant piles
And influential heaps of Art Work
To ever be assembled in Modern Times,
And it sent it West...to chide
Cajole, humble and humiliate...the Golden Bear.
And this is the true story of that truck...
A Truckload of Art
From New York City
Came rollin down the road
Yeah the driver was singing
And the sunset was pretty
But the truck turned over
And she rolled off the road
Yeah a Truckload of Art
is burning near the highway
Precious objects are scattered
All over the ground
And it's a terrible sight
If a person were to see it
But there weren't nobody around
(Yodel)
Yeah the driver went sailing
High in the sky
Landing in the gold lap of the Lord
Who smiled and then said
"Son, you're better off dead
Than haulin a truckload
full of hot avant-garde
(chorus)
Yes...an important artwork
Was thrown burning to the ground
Tragically...landing in the weeds
And the smoke could be seen
Ahhh for miles all around
Yeah but nobody...knows what it means
Yes...a Truckload of Art
Is burning near the highway
And it's a tough job for the highway patrol
Ahhh they'll soon see the smoke
An come runnin to poke
Then dig a deep ditch
And throw the arts in a hole
(Yodel)
Yeah a Truckload of Art
Is burning near the highway
And it's raging far-out of control
And what the critics have cheered
Is now shattered and queered
And their noble reviews
Have been stewed on the road
(chorus)
Nov 1, 2009 07:46:54 AM, [email protected] wrote:I think the TCMA should ammend it's by laws to prohibit statues on it's preserves....
Sent from my iPhoneI'd nominate Bob Hudson, pioneer Texas caver from the early 1950s. He was one of the first serious cavers in Texas and was a founder of the UTG. He explored hundreds of caves, some of which have not been visited since. He also established the first cave files for the state and wrote some of the first articles on Texas caves that appeared in the NSS News.Jerry.In a message dated 10/31/2009 7:37:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:Well, now, lookity here, Bill, Carol is getting together a bronze foundry. I suspect we could make statues of damned near any caver we wanted--and maybe even some we didn't.The question is: Where would we set them up? In some cave(s)? NSS HQ? On some Cave Preserve--like Stonehenge?
--Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---I'm sending this email out to everyone I host sites/email for. I've never asked for donations to offset the costs, and for purely personal reasons, I want to do some minor upgrades to the server hosting all of this. This is a one time request, at least this year :) But seriously, you won't find me doing this very often, if I even do it again. If you appreciate the hosting, please go donate at http://texaslans.com and hit the paypal link. Any amount would be appreciated. Thank you Charles
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--- Begin Message ---Come on, y'all! I made a donation to Charles, as I've used/abused CaveTex more than anyone, except for Locklear. Let's all step up and help him out, as this valuable service is ran by him and comes out of his own pocket. I shudder to think what caving in Texas would be like without it! Thanks for running and maintaining this site, Charles, and for your free rein approach. Mark ________________________________ From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Mon 11/2/2009 3:27 PM To: Cavetex; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [Texascavers] Server donation I'm sending this email out to everyone I host sites/email for. I've never asked for donations to offset the costs, and for purely personal reasons, I want to do some minor upgrades to the server hosting all of this. This is a one time request, at least this year :) But seriously, you won't find me doing this very often, if I even do it again. If you appreciate the hosting, please go donate at http://texaslans.com and hit the paypal link. Any amount would be appreciated. Thank you Charles --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---How much do you need? How much has been raised so far? Where is my free gift for donating at the 10$ a month level? If we are going to have a fund raiser at least do it al la NPR. Cheers, GP On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:11 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Come on, y'all! > > > I made a donation to Charles, as I've used/abused CaveTex more than anyone, > except for Locklear. > > > Let's all step up and help him out, as this valuable service is ran by him > and comes out of his own pocket. > > > I shudder to think what caving in Texas would be like without it! > > > > Thanks for running and maintaining this site, Charles, and for your free > rein approach. > > > Mark > > > ________________________________ > From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Mon 11/2/2009 3:27 PM > To: Cavetex; [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: [Texascavers] Server donation > > I'm sending this email out to everyone I host sites/email for. I've > never asked for donations to offset the costs, and for purely personal > reasons, I want to do some minor upgrades to the server hosting all of > this. > > This is a one time request, at least this year :) But seriously, you > won't find me doing this very often, if I even do it again. > > If you appreciate the hosting, please go donate at > http://texaslans.com and hit the paypal link. Any amount would be > appreciated. > > Thank you > Charles > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > -- George-Paul Richmann (513) 490-3100 [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---My goal is almost met, so any amount would be helpful, even $1. For $10 a month, I'll put your name in blinking pink letters on every email with a big Thank you :) Charles On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:20 AM, George-Paul Richmann <[email protected]> wrote: > How much do you need? How much has been raised so far? Where is my > free gift for donating at the 10$ a month level? If we are going to > have a fund raiser at least do it al la NPR. > > Cheers, > > GP > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:11 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Come on, y'all! >> >> >> I made a donation to Charles, as I've used/abused CaveTex more than anyone, >> except for Locklear. >> >> >> Let's all step up and help him out, as this valuable service is ran by him >> and comes out of his own pocket. >> >> >> I shudder to think what caving in Texas would be like without it! >> >> >> >> Thanks for running and maintaining this site, Charles, and for your free >> rein approach. >> >> >> Mark >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Mon 11/2/2009 3:27 PM >> To: Cavetex; [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: [Texascavers] Server donation >> >> I'm sending this email out to everyone I host sites/email for. I've >> never asked for donations to offset the costs, and for purely personal >> reasons, I want to do some minor upgrades to the server hosting all of >> this. >> >> This is a one time request, at least this year :) But seriously, you >> won't find me doing this very often, if I even do it again. >> >> If you appreciate the hosting, please go donate at >> http://texaslans.com and hit the paypal link. Any amount would be >> appreciated. >> >> Thank you >> Charles >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> > > > > -- > George-Paul Richmann > (513) 490-3100 > [email protected] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >
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--- Begin Message ---All, Got my blood test results back today and tested positive for histo.I feel much much better and Dr released me from his care with a follow up for 6 months down the road.Bill----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bentley" <[email protected]> To: "PBSS Mailing List" <[email protected]>; "Texascavers Mailing List" <[email protected]>Cc: "New Mexico Mailing List" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] Hopsital stayAll,I am home now after an overnight stay in the hospital, I appreciate everyones concerns and prayers. The Pulmonary Specialist Doctor, didn't actually say I had Histoplasmosis, but treated me as if I had, they won't know if I had Histoplasmosis or not till the tests all come back next week , but have treated me as if I had it.With this drug....Diflucin detailed link below http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluconazoleone night stay in the hospital and I did a 100% turn around...so I am figuring I did...I still have a slight cough, but not as bad as when I went in....Xrays and CT Scans still shoed some slight scarring (spider webs is what it looked like to me) but, doctors all agreed for me to go home.Again thanks for tha prayers and concerns. Good to be home even though I missed the Texas Caver's Reunion. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: Bill BentleyTo: PBSS Mailing List ; Texascavers Mailing List ; Norma Bentley Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:22 PM Subject: [PBSS] Hopsital stay All, I went to see a pulmonary specialist today and...I am being admitted to the Midland Memorial Hospital this afternoon and they believe I have contracted Histoplasmosis. They are going to do a lung biopsy on Monday to make for sure the right treatment is given.This is bad, way worse that I thought Please let everyone know. Thanks, Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ PBSS mailing list [email protected] http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net _______________________________________________ NMCAVER mailing list [email protected]http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
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--- Begin Message ---Who was looking last week for a place for a photographer to live? Terry Raines has the place that Shannon was living in empty now and is looking for someone to occupy it. You can contact him at: [email protected] 512-466-4319
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--- Begin Message ---I think this will interest / provoke cavers, as well. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Jonelle To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 4:22 pm Subject: FW: From the TAS Website to the newsletter editor This communication was sent to me this afternoon. I thought I would pass this along to some of you list members who might possibly be interested. Jonelle Miller-Chapman, Editor Texas Archeology ------ Forwarded Message From: "Susie Giles" <[email protected]> List-Post: [email protected] Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:30:38 -0600 To: <[email protected]> Subject: From the TAS Website to the newsletter editor San Saba County is located in beautiful Central Texas and needs your help. A proposed power line 12 stories tall is being routed through near pristine habitat along the Colorado River. We don’t understand why they are not building this along existing routes. San Saba has archeological digs and out on some of these ranches, especially along the river, Indian mounds have not even been documented. Please visit www.sansabaposse.org <http://www.sansabaposse.org/>; for more information. Sincerely, Susie Giles ------ End of Forwarded Message
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--- Begin Message ---Here's an update to what DirtDoc posted about the deep cave in China:THE Hong Meigui CES Tianxing 2007 expedition to China's Wulong county in Chonquing minicipality began by re-descending Miao Keng, and quickly connected it to Qikeng Dong. An attempt to bolt outwards and upwards over the 491m shaft in Miao Keng was inconclusive. Working from an underground camp at a central location within the system, the expedition found several extensions and finally made the long-sought- after connection to Dongba Dong.Miao Keng II, an entrance only 20m from Miao Keng, also connected to Qikeng Dong and the previously terminal choke only 200m into Xiaoguchiwan Dong was passed to reach a stream passage in shale, which sumps downstream but has several upstream leads. A traverse above the third pitch of the same cave made a connection to Liuchi Aokou Xia Dong - itself part of the main system. Tianxing Dongxuexitong (Tianxing Cave System) now stands at 1,020m deep and 35,480m long with seven entrances, making it the fourth longest in China and the first in the country to pass 1,000m deep. Report: Duncan CollisDescent (199) DEC/JAN 2007/08 page 19The length and depth figures are the same as those previously posted. What is new is that the connection has been made.The lengths some people will go to to avoid a nice 491-meter free drop are amazing. They have 37 rebelays in that shaft. TAG cavers would probably bolt out a ways at the top to get a sporting free drop, instead of an underground abstacle course. -- Mixon---------------------------------------- When sharing a dish with the devil, use a long spoon. ---------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: [email protected] AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---Underground Texas Grotto meeting November 4, 2009 www.utgrotto.org The meeting is on Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M. University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html Pete Strickland will introduce and narrate the Program for the evening. A video of ongoing Caving Adventures in Mexico. Pete helped organize a Bustamante trip for the recent ICS conference and took many international cavers south of the border. Pete continues to validate why UT Grotto is considered the gateway to Mexican caving. Come out for a cool time in Austin to support one of our own and experience all the things that we take for granted on a daily basis. Please see the web site for information on all UT Grotto activities. All of our information is available including officer contact info, trip reports, new caver training, and an event calendar that lists upcoming caving trips, beginner trips, vertical rope training, or other cool social event activities. Occasionally, some cavers gather beforehand about 6:30 at Sau Paulo www.saopaulos.net for happy hour margaritas, and then we walk over to the meeting. After the Official Grotto meeting, we migrate to Posse East www.posseeast.com for beer & burgers, recruit for upcoming trips, and share caving stories. The UT Grotto needs you, the bold caver with photos and a story to share about your adventures, scientific research, or something else really cool. Contact Gary [email protected] to schedule you into our incredible Program series.
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--- Begin Message ---I am putting together a slide show to show to my grotto (Meramec Valley) of the ICS. Unfortunately, no one that travelled with me took good photos of the sessions. The program, as it stands now, makes it look like a party, rather than the serious event that it was by day and I would like to balance that image. If anyone has a half dozen or so clear, digital photos of sessions that they would be willing to let me use, please reply off-line. Thank you. Philip L. Moss [email protected] ____________________________________________________________ Criminal Justice Degrees Start your criminal justice career. Earn your degree 100% online! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=WE2Y8z64hmnbx2lsvQDMbwAAJ1DVBztsEY32apQvj1KtvBv_AAQAAAAFAAAAAMUgID8AAANSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQKAAAAAA=
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--- Begin Message ---Thanks, Bill, for the China update. >>>The lengths some people will go to to avoid a nice 491-meter free drop are >>>amazing. They have 37 rebelays in that shaft. TAG cavers would probably >>>bolt out a ways at the top to get a sporting free drop, instead of an >>>underground obstacle course. – Mixon<<<<< It’s partly a matter of philosophy, and part practicality. Are you interested in exploring a much virgin cave as possible in a remote and difficult area, or are you after a single gee-whiz descent? I can remember when rappelling was not a sport in itself, but rather something to be avoided if you could do so, from safety considerations. That’s not to deny my own sense of exhilaration and thrill on a Big One. Rope weight and volume is a significant consideration, not only inside the caves themselves, but just getting to the caves. Handling a single 500 meter rope can become a logistical nightmare. So in a practical sense, using several shorter ropes is a desirable idea for expedition caving. How many times do you really need a single rope that long? The answer is never, if you can get to a wall and set a bolt. Safety and speed are also improved using a number of rebelays, especially on exit after a long expedition. It’s nice to be able to rest without holding everyone else up. 1,500 feet is a long way to climb, even if you are using stairs and have no pack. DirtDoc
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--- Begin Message --- I'm well aware of the arguments for rebelays. As far as safety is concerned, I can think of at least two fatal accidents caused by people screwing up at rebelays. Can anybody name a fatal accident caused by an American 11-mm caving rope breaking? I remain a fan of the "tie the rope to something and toss it down the pit" style.As for speeding up the ascent because several people can climb at once, I doubt it will be long before I hear of an accident caused by somebody dropping something on some sitting-duck climber below him in the shaft, rather than hiding well away from the falling-rock zone at the bottom.True, the 8-mm dental floss that the cavers use in the pit in China weighs a good bit less than an equal length of 11 mm, probably about half as much. But that pit isn't very far inside the cave. Passing one or two knots connecting reasonable lengths of 11 mm would be quicker and safer than passing 37 (!) rebelays on 8 mm.Some elaborate rigging is justified, especially in cases where the route will be used repeatedly during an expedition by cavers carrying loads. A lot of it, though, is a matter of religion. I've watched a bolt being placed halfway down a 15-meter pit that was bottomed by exactly one person, went nowhere, and will probably never be descended again before it erodes away. Basically, some people enjoy long free rappels, and other people enjoy doing fancy rigging.--Mixon ---------------------------------------- When sharing a dish with the devil, use a long spoon. ---------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: [email protected] AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---Bill Mixon said:>As for speeding up the ascent because several people can climb at once, I doubt it will be long before I hear of an accident caused by somebody dropping something on some sitting-duck climber below him in the shaft, rather than hiding well away from the falling-rock zone at the bottom.It is true that multiple climbers directly in a line is dangerous, but if one is rigging with multiple climbers in mind, then the route can deviate to the side a bit at each rebelay. Such a system avoids having people directly above the rebelays below them when climbing, removing the danger. Of course by the time one placed dozens of rebelays in a single pit the route would have deviated a lot, possibly spiraling all the way around back under itself! That's not a common problem, however. ;-)Mark Minton You may reply to [email protected]Permanent email address is [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---anyone out there have any kid sized (9 - 12 year olds) frog systems that their kids have outgrown that they may want to sell? Looking for 2 sets. Thanks -- Ron Rutherford
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--- Begin Message ---for all you cubicle rats, you may divert your attention "for a moment only" to the following ebay item # 260498179770. Now get back to work. Who knows, maybe somebody really likes blue. I personally don't like the idea of ebay rope cause they could store a leaking lead acid battery in the same box and not care. Now to the real question. What is the usual method for procuring the required single length of rope for Golondrinas. I assume we just call our most trusted caving supplier (whoever we chose) and place a special order. Should we expect a slight discount over said suppliers normal cost per ft/meter for this type of purchase? Or would the cost be more for extra handling, weight, spool cost.
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--- Begin Message ---I suscribe to a UT events service and came across this Climbers meeting evidently this afternoon on campus before the grotto meeting. Has anyone ever attended this groups meetings? Ron The University of Texas at Austin What starts here changes the world ********************************************************************** OnCampus Events, a service of the Office of Public Affairs, is a gateway to the university community. It provides information to faculty and staff about events and activities taking place at The University of Texas at Austin each day. Information about the following day's events and activities are listed in this e-mail. Submissions must be received by noon, two business days prior to an event. ********************************************************************** LISTINGS for Wednesday, Nov. 4 Texas Rock Climbing Team holds first meeting of the year Description: The Texas Rock Climbing Team is a brand-new student organization created for any and all students interested in the sport of rock climbing. We welcome members of all experience levels, whether you're an expert on the rock or new to the sport. Our mission is to provide students with the means, support and community to meet their climbing needs in a way as affordable and enjoyable as possible. Time: 5:30-6:15 p.m. Location: MEZ 1.202 Admission: Free URL: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49697092108
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--- Begin Message ---I thought this item by an old Florida caver friend, Buford Pruitt, merited re-posting to our lists. Roger Moore GHG <<1) Walkie-talkies By: Buford Pruitt (McIntosh, Florida) I have tried in vain to convince my fellow cavers to use walkie-talkies on long rope in echoing or wet cave pit entrances ever since I encountered a group of cops and firemen from Florida and South Georgia doing so at Flowing Well. My thanks to Bruce Morgan and Jeff Cody for two stories in two days that amply demonstrate why cavers on rope should use waterproof walkie-talkies. In addition to their examples, I have a few more stories of my own and so do many of you. What will it take to convince US cavers to equip themselves to communicate competently with their comrades when they are in the most life-threatening parts of their caving adventures? Certainly, numerous cases of preventable hypothermia, delayed medical attention and even deaths have not and apparently will not do the trick. I think it will take a highly-respected BNC SRT TAG caver on a mission to accomplish this, and I am convinced that it will eventually be done. I really don't want to see my friends names in American Caving Accidents.>>
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