texascavers Digest 10 Nov 2009 14:35:31 -0000 Issue 884
Topics (messages 12547 through 12559):
PBSS November meeting
12547 by: J. LaRue Thomas
Caver Statues
12548 by: Mark Minton
12549 by: Gill Edigar
12551 by: Linda Palit
12552 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
Re: Cave diving death in Florida - Eagle Nest Sink :
12550 by: R D Milhollin
Re: 15th ICS - Proceedings on line!
12553 by: Mixon Bill
GP and Jen Wedding Happy Hour
12554 by: George-Paul Richmann
TSS work session
12555 by: Ron Ralph
12559 by: Ron Ralph
90-meter pit rope
12556 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
another underground cave story
12557 by: David
cave related news story
12558 by: David
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--- Begin Message ---
Greetings, all:
The regularly scheduled monthly meeting of the Permian Basin Speleological
Society will be on Tuesday November 10th at 7:00 pm, once again in the back
room at Murray's Deli which is located at 3211 West Wadley in Midland.
Topics of discussion: The upcoming rock haul and other cave stuff...
For further information contact an officer: Jacqui Thomas
[email protected] , Sharon Long [email protected] , or Bill
Bentley [email protected]
Regarding The Hole News (especially trip reports): Kel Thomas
[email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>I wonder if there are any other statues of
cavers in the world? Are there of E.A. Martel or Norbert Casteret in France?
>>There is one of Xu Xiake (pronounced Shoe
She-ah-kur) in front of the Institute of Karst Geology in Guilin, China.
Apparently a statue of Martel was
made. According to this biography in Acta
Carsologica
<http://carsologica.zrc-sazu.si/?stran=downloads&download=schut.pdf&number=351&id=317>
it was made in the Cévennes region of France, but
it doesn't state whether it is still displayed
anywhere (see the Conclusion). Here is
another: Emil Racovita of Romania. His bust
stands in the city of Cluj, where the Romanian
Institute of Speleology "Emil Racovita" is
located.
<http://www.showcaves.com/english/explain/People/Racovita.html>
I'll bet there are others.
You may reply to [email protected]
Permanent email address is [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Mark Minton <[email protected]> wrote:
> Apparently a statue of Martel was made. According to this
> biography.... I'll bet there are others.
In further discussion it has been suggested that we locate a suitable
property and set up a statue garden of famous and nearly famous cavers.
My suggestion to that is to find a (more-or-less) large, one or two room
cave and make a caver grave yard and statue garden. Famous cavers statues
could be cast showing them crawling out of small passage or climbing a wall
or rope (cable) or standing around the grave of one of their former caving
companions.
--Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---
Okay, so we need to find a suitable cave and make a statue garden with
appropriate area additions.
Let's start looking for an appropriate location.
Any suggestions?
What happened to
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gill
Edigar
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caver Statues
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Mark Minton <[email protected]> wrote:
Apparently a statue of Martel was made. According to this biography....
I'll bet there are others.
In further discussion it has been suggested that we locate a suitable
property and set up a statue garden of famous and nearly famous cavers.
My suggestion to that is to find a (more-or-less) large, one or two room
cave and make a caver grave yard and statue garden. Famous cavers statues
could be cast showing them crawling out of small passage or climbing a wall
or rope (cable) or standing around the grave of one of their former caving
companions.
--Ediger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about caver garden gnomes?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Mark Minton
<[email protected]> wrote:
Apparently a statue of Martel was made. According to this biography.... I'll bet there are others.
In further discussion it has been suggested that we locate a suitable property and set up a statue garden of famous and nearly famous cavers.
My suggestion to that is to find a (more-or-less) large, one or two room cave and make a caver grave yard and statue garden. Famous cavers statues could be cast showing them crawling out of small passage or climbing a wall or rope (cable) or standing around the grave of one of their former caving companions.
--Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---
This is no surprise. It is a blatent violation of RULE NUMBER 1 in cave diving,
don't dive in a cave if you haven't been trained. These guys were "technical"
divers, had rebreathers, etc. but had no training in cave diving. On top of
that Eagle's Nest is a very deep cave, the bottom of the sink before the side
passages start is about 200 feet, even a trip to the top of the debris cone
directly beneath the surface opening is about 160 feet deep. This is deeper
than air and especially any nitrox mix can sustain lucidity in a diver, even an
experienced one. I have no idea what sort of mix the divers were carrying, but
I would wager that rules two three and four may have been violated as well
(continuous guideline, adequate reserve breathing supply, especially
considering the rebreather, and appropriate depth limits). Deep caves combined
with rebreathers require extreme precautions and are best approached in
progressively deeper and longer stages over time.
Sympathy for the families, but these guys should have known better.
--- On Thu, 11/5/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Texascavers] Cave diving death in Florida - Eagle Nest Sink :
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 2:44 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Drowning shows Eagle Nest Sink
> underwater caves in Hernando
> County are dangerous — even to skilled divers
>
>
> By Joel
> Anderson,
> Times Staff Writer
> In Print: Thursday, November 5, 2009
> WEEKI WACHEE — A few yards before a wooden ramp
> descends into Eagle Nest
> Sink, signs warn those who dare submerge themselves in the
> world-renowned
> underwater abyss.
>
> One large, green sign with white letters — all of them
> capitalized — advises:
> "CAVE DIVING IN THIS AREA IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS —
> EVEN LIFE THREATENING! DO NOT
> DIVE UNLESS YOU ARE A CERTIFIED CAVE DIVER!!"
> Still, longtime friends and diving partners James D.
> Woodall II and Gregory
> S. Snowden were not intimidated. And that might have cost
> Woodall his life.
> Woodall, 39, drowned Tuesday afternoon while diving in
> the underwater caverns
> of the Chassahowitzka Wildlife Management Area, according
> to the Hernando County
> Sheriff's Office. No foul play is suspected.
> His body was pulled from the water after midnight by a
> diver with the St.
> Petersburg Police Department and the owner of a Citrus
> County diving shop.
> Deputies said Woodall and Snowden, 34, both of Richmond,
> Ky., came to Florida
> for the annual Diving Equipment and Marketing Association
> show in Orlando. But
> they also made plans to visit Hernando County for some cave
> diving.
> The men were experienced divers but had no cave-diving
> certification, said
> Sgt. Donna Black of the Sheriff's Office.
> Authorities and diving experts said divers without
> advanced cave-diving
> training should not even think of trying Eagle Nest.
> "Once you get in there, you find out it's a
> different beast. It's only for
> the more experienced divers," said Victor Echaves of
> the Florida Fish and
> Wildlife Conservation Commission, which owns the
> property.
> Indeed, from the shore, Eagle Nest appears to be an
> ordinary-looking,
> algae-covered pond. Below, however, is a mile of passages,
> one of them more than
> 300 feet deep. The caves are known in diving circles as the
> "Grand Canyon" for
> their stunning views, extreme depth and remote
> location.
> The area is several miles from hard roads and difficult
> to reach without
> off-road vehicles. The site was closed to divers from 1999
> to 2003.
> According to the Sheriff's Office, Woodall and
> Snowden were down about 270
> feet and nearly 500 feet inside the caves Tuesday afternoon
> when Woodall started
> having problems with his breathing apparatus.
> Snowden tried to help but Woodall was in an
> "altered mental state" and pushed
> him away, according to a report. By the time Snowden was
> able to steady himself,
> Woodall had drowned. Snowden surfaced and called for help
> at 6:01 p.m.
> Back in Kentucky, friends recalled Woodall developing a
> love for diving in
> recent years. A onetime paramedic and owner of a sign shop,
> he threw himself
> into his new passion.
> "I don't think Jim ever did anything a little
> bit," said Jimmy Cornelison, a
> friend. "He would tell you that he loved to dive.
> Period. It was a great pastime
> for him."
> Accompanying Woodall on most of his excursions was
> Snowden, who worked at
> Woodall's sign shop in Richmond and was founding member
> of the Madison County
> Rescue Squad Dive Team.
> "This isn't just something they up and did —
> this is something they did all
> the time," Cornelison said. "This was a big deal
> for them."
> Including Woodall, at least six divers have died at
> Eagle Nest since 1981.
> The last deaths came in June 2004, when the caves claimed
> the lives of Craig
> Simon of Spring Hill and John Robinson Jr. of St.
> Petersburg. A year later, Judi
> Bedard nearly died during a dive there.
> Regardless, Eagle Nest remains a popular destination for
> divers around the
> world.
> Wednesday, just hours after investigators reopened the
> area, a handful of
> divers were heading into the murky waters. They all had
> heard of Woodall's death
> but remained undaunted.
> "It's a wonderful, silent place like a lot of
> cave-diving spots in North
> Florida," said Helge Weber, 43, a public safety diver
> back in his home of
> Friedberg, Germany. "This is one of the best places on
> Earth for relaxing."
> http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/kentucky-man-dead-missing-after-cave-diving-accident-in-hernando-county/1049287
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
When I saw that these things were all under 20 MB in size, I suspected
that the graphics had all been severely compressed. That's the only
way to get a 600-page PDF that small. Indeed, they show really gross
compression artifacts, although the few I've examined remain legible,
if ugly. I hope when the PDFs of the individual papers are made, the
illustrations are not compressed. The individual papers will be small
files regardless.
It would also be nice if the full volumes were available, optionally,
with decent quality, in addition to these small files.-- Mixon
Begin forwarded message:
From: ICS 2009 eList <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: November 6, 2009 2:15:20 AM CST
To: [email protected]
Subject: 15th ICS - Proceedings on line!
Dear Friends,
My apologies for the long delay. In August I wrote that the
proceedings of the 15th International Congress of Speleology would be
posted soon on the Karst Information Portal (KIP), but this was
delayed due to someone’s illness. However, the proceedings are now
available at http://www.lib.usf.edu/karst-test/SPT--BrowseResources.php?ParentId=367
The proceedings are currently posted as PDF files, as they were
printed in three large volumes. The PDFs are thus large, 11, 16, and
18 Mb for volumes 1, 2, and 3. The Table of Contents is in Volume 1.
The index is in Volume 3. You will notice that for most items in the
index, the given page numbers are 2 pages larger than the actual page
number. This was because of a last minute correction when there was
not enough time to renumber the index and have the proceedings printed
in time for the Congress
The above address is the direct address to the proceedings. This is a
part of the KIP that is being redesigned and tested. The main address
for the KIP is www.karstportal.org. You can use the keyword search in
the upper right corner to find information. The keyword can be a cave
name, author name, or other information that may be in the reports you
want. However, the proceedings PDFs have not yet been indexed for the
search system and so you will not yet find them that way. The KIP team
is working to index all of the papers, but also to divide the three
PDFs into individual files, one for each paper. The work is not
difficult, but with over 500 papers in the proceedings it will be
slow. I will notify you as soon as the indexing is complete and the
individual papers are posted.
George
George Veni, Ph.D.
Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology
Vice President of Administration, International Union of Speleology
Executive Director, U.S. National Cave and Karst Research Institute
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--- Begin Message ---
So sorry for the late notice, but.....
So Jen and I got married :-D. It was way over in Ohio Sept 19th. We
would like to thank all of our Texas friends by having a Texas
reception (more of a Happy Hour):
Friday, November 13th at 6 pm at the new St. Arnold brewery
location, 2000 Lyons Avenue. It'll be casual - just good beer, good
pizza, and good friends!
BTW... its a Open Bar. The only thing I ask is that you let us know
your coming (and how many) so that we don't over buy on the Pizza.
Cheers,
GP
--
George-Paul Richmann
(513) 490-3100
[email protected]
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Cavers,
There is a scheduled second Wednesday work session of the Texas
Speleological Survey September 9th at the JJ Pickle Research Center on
Burnet Road north of highway 183. We will continue to update electronic
files and maybe scan and clean a few regular sized maps. Come by and see if
you would like to organize one of our cave rich counties.
Both publication sales and the library will be open. If you attend, you will
also be able to work on your own projects as well. The door will be open at
5:00 p.m. and stay open till we adjourn. The TSS office phone is 475-8802 if
you get lost or stopped by the guard. Remember it is best to arrive before
6:00 pm, or the gate guards might not let you in! If you have questions or
problems, please contact me at <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected] or the office manager, Jim Kennedy. Please go to
<http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/tsscalendar.htm>
http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/tsscalendar.htm for additional
information.
Ron Ralph
Cell: 797-3817
Map to the place is at: http://www.utexas.edu/maps/prc/ On PRC map 2 ("NW
Area"), 18-A is the little building just above the "ra" in "Granberry". Park
to the south in the PETEX lot across the street (Read Granberry Trail) from
building 18-A
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Cavers,
The work session is tomorrow, November 11, in north Austin. Sorry for the
error - you get those with cutting and pasting.
Ron
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--- Begin Message ---
90-meter pit rope for sale – new PMI. Never used. Stored carefully. $150.
Can deliver at the SW Regional in Albuquerque Dec 5, otherwise you can pick it
up in Denver or pay shipping. DirtDoc
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http://www.wwmt.com/articles/meth-1369121-0in-style.html
Someone should explain to the SPJ, why the use of the
phrase "underground cave," doesn't make any sense, yet
is common in news stories.
http://www.spj.org/a-newamerica.asp
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--- Begin Message ---
A recent news story about bears eating terrorist hiding in caves:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2009/11/03/2009-11-03_bear_mauls_kills_two_highranking_muslim_separatists_hiding_out_in_cave_in_kashmi.html
Maybe we don't need 40,000 troops. We just need to air drop a lot of
bears, coyotes, wolves, etc.. Or would that be considered biological
warfare ?
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