texascavers Digest 15 Nov 2009 23:25:14 -0000 Issue 887
Topics (messages 12590 through 12609):
Re: 15th ICS - More news on the on-line proceedings
12590 by: Mixon Bill
Re: Ends Sunday! Veterans Day Sale at Zazzle
12591 by: Annmarie Mikelski
Article on Roger Brucker :
12592 by: jerryatkin.aol.com
12594 by: Diana Tomchick
New chemosynthetic worms found in Colorado cave :
12593 by: jerryatkin.aol.com
caving question
12595 by: David
Roppel Cave related
12596 by: David
computer news: archiving data
12597 by: David
The ant cave
12598 by: Gill Edigar
12599 by: Denise P
12600 by: Don Cooper
12601 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
12602 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
12603 by: Gill Edigar
12604 by: Mark Alman
12606 by: Mixon Bill
12608 by: Chris Vreeland
book review: Jewel Cave history
12605 by: Mixon Bill
archiving your cave data
12607 by: Mixon Bill
12609 by: John Greer
Administrivia:
To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
<[email protected]>
To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
<[email protected]>
To post to the list, e-mail:
<[email protected]>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Forwarded by Mixon:
Begin forwarded message:
From: ICS 2009 eList <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: November 14, 2009 2:21:43 AM CST
To: [email protected]
Subject: 15th ICS - More news on the on-line proceedings
Dear Friends,
A few days ago I wrote that the proceedings of the 15th International
Congress of Speleology were posted as three PDFs on the Karst
Information Portal (KIP) at http://www.lib.usf.edu/karst-test/SPT--BrowseResources.php?ParentId=367
Each PDF is for each volume of the proceedings. I wrote that the files
were large, 11, 16, and 18 Mb for volumes 1, 2, and 3. Now they are
much larger: 86, 153, and 155 Mb. The earlier files were compressed
and the quality of the figures was poor. The figures now look
excellent in the new PDFs. I apologize for any inconvenience.
As a reminder, you can buy printed copies of the proceedings from the
NSS Bookstore at http://nssbookstore.org/index.php?mode=store&submode=showitem&itemnumber=04-0106-2378
. Also for a limited time you can get a fun cowboy boot drinking cup
for free when you order the proceedings. These were very popular at
the International Congress. Just include the words “COWBOY BOOT” with
your order.
George
George Veni, Ph.D.
Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology
Vice President of Administration, International Union of Speleology
Executive Director, U.S. National Cave and Karst Research Institute
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 10:46 AM
See sale code below for discount.
Get direct links to our stores of interest:
www.zazzle.com/texaslyme
www.zazzle.com/coastalwgs
www.zazzle.com/caveformations also has a WGS dog calendar
AM
--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Zazzle.com <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Zazzle.com <[email protected]>
Subject: Ends Sunday! Veterans Day Sale at Zazzle
To: [email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 9:28 PM
Veterans Day Sale Share this email on: Twitter or Facebook
Can't see images? View this email online.
To be sure to receive our email offers, add [email protected] to your
address book.
CREATE | APPAREL | MUGS | POSTAGE | CARDS | POSTERS | GIFTS |
MORE
Veterans Day Sale! $5 off all orders $35 or more! Use code: VETERANSDAY9 Ends
Sunday
* $5 discount applies to orders $35 or more for all Zazzle products, excluding
gift certificates. Enter promo code VETERANSDAY9 at checkout to receive
discount. Promo code may only be used once and may not be reproduced or
transferred. Minimum order amount does not include shipping and handling
charges or taxes. Offer is valid from November 11, 2009 at 12:01 am PT through
November 15, 2009 at 11:59pm PT. Your order must be placed during that time to
qualify for this special offer. This promotional offer may not be combined with
any other Zazzle promotional or discount offers. Offer valid on Zazzle.com only.
Zazzle, the Zazzle logo, Zazzle Custom Stamps, and Zazzle Profile Cards are
registered trademarks or trademarks of Zazzle.com, Inc. in the United States
and other countries.
Your trust means the world to us. Check out our Privacy Policy and User
Agreement. To unsubscribe from Zazzle marketing emails please reply to this
email with the subject line 'Unsubscribe'. Forgot your password?
Need help or have any questions? Visit us at our Help Center
© 2009 Zazzle.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Zazzle.com Inc, 1900 Seaport Blvd.
Redwood City, CA 94063
You are currently signed up to receive emails from Zazzle.
Share this email on: Twitter or Facebook
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cave expert, 80, still spelunking
By JAMI KINTON • News Journal • November 13, 2009
SHELBY -- Roger Brucker got himself into the thick of many an adventure while
growing up in Shelby. Now, at age 80, the active Beavercreek resident said his
exploits are far from over. Brucker, a veteran spelunker, is one of the
nation's leading experts on Mammoth Cave in Kentucky and has co-authored five
books on cave exploration. "I've had an interest in caves since I was a little
boy. I would take blankets and drape them over chairs. We also had this barn in
the back of our house on North Gamble Street and I would pile up the hay to
make little places to hide in," he said. "Shelby was a town that, growing up,
there was plenty to do. You could hike along the Black Fork and have plenty of
adventures. Plus, my mother encouraged me to explore. I think that general
curiosity and adventurous nature stuck with me."
Since visiting Mammoth Cave at age 8 with his mother, Brucker said he has been
back more than 500 times -- along with exploring countless other caves around
the country. "When we first started exploring Mammoth Cave, it was about 35
miles long," he said. "Now it's about 400 miles long, and we keep finding more
cave through different tunnels. Part of the joy of cave exploration is finding
new passages. We think someday it'll be 1,000 miles long."
In earlier days, Brucker said he quickly graduated from a more amateur way of
exploring. "There is a right way and a wrong way to do this," he said. "The
wrong way to go is by yourself with a flashlight. The right way is with knee
pads and a hard hat, three sources of lights and making sure to tell people
where you're going."
In 1951, Brucker married Lynn, 53, who still enjoys exploring with him. The
couple said they spend anywhere from 10 to 15 hours on one excursion.
"My wife is very good at it," Brucker said. "We have a lot of fun together."
Although Brucker majored in fine arts at Oberlin College and became president
of OIA Marketing Communications, where he worked for 50 years, Brucker said
cave exploration was always a side "obsession."
"When I was still working, I would take about eight to 10 weekends a year to go
explore," he said. After a week-long expedition in 1954, Brucker ended up
writing his first book on cave exploration. On Oct. 1, he released his fifth
novel, "Grand, Gloomy and Peculiar," about a slave and his explorations within
Mammoth Caves. His first four books were nonfiction. Brucker said he doesn't
see an end in sight.
"It's very physically demanding and requires you to not be afraid of the
unknown because you come to things you can't do and you've never done before,"
he said. "You find a deep pit and you have to find away around it. I can't do
the things I used to, but I love it just the same."
http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20091113/LIFESTYLE/911130303
=
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not only is it inspiring to go caving with someone who's been active
at it as long as Roger Brucker: one of the great things about Roger is
that a large number of people have been inspired to go caving with the
CRF in Mammoth after reading his books. While wandering around on the
Mammoth Big Map in the gym at the ICS, I ran into Roger and he
introduced me to someone who lives in the Houston area (his name
escapes me, maybe he's on this list?) that had been so inspired by
reading his books that he sent a fan letter to Roger. In response this
young man received a personal invitation from Roger to attend a CRF
Mammoth expedition, which he readily accepted, and he has now become a
regular contributor to the survey effort at the world's longest cave.
Diana
P.S. Roger would find it incredibly amusing to know that he married
Lynn in 1951, before she was born...
On Nov 14, 2009, at 2:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Cave expert, 80, still spelunking
By JAMI KINTON • News Journal • November 13, 2009
SHELBY -- Roger Brucker got himself into the thick of many an
adventure while growing up in Shelby. Now, at age 80, the active
Beavercreek resident said his exploits are far from over. Brucker, a
veteran spelunker, is one of the nation's leading experts on Mammoth
Cave in Kentucky and has co-authored five books on cave exploration.
"I've had an interest in caves since I was a little boy. I would
take blankets and drape them over chairs. We also had this barn in
the back of our house on North Gamble Street and I would pile up the
hay to make little places to hide in," he said. "Shelby was a town
that, growing up, there was plenty to do. You could hike along the
Black Fork and have plenty of adventures. Plus, my mother encouraged
me to explore. I think that general curiosity and adventurous nature
stuck with me."
Since visiting Mammoth Cave at age 8 with his mother, Brucker said
he has been back more than 500 times -- along with exploring
countless other caves around the country. "When we first started
exploring Mammoth Cave, it was about 35 miles long," he said. "Now
it's about 400 miles long, and we keep finding more cave through
different tunnels. Part of the joy of cave exploration is finding
new passages. We think someday it'll be 1,000 miles long."
In earlier days, Brucker said he quickly graduated from a more
amateur way of exploring. "There is a right way and a wrong way to
do this," he said. "The wrong way to go is by yourself with a
flashlight. The right way is with knee pads and a hard hat, three
sources of lights and making sure to tell people where you're going."
In 1951, Brucker married Lynn, 53, who still enjoys exploring with
him. The couple said they spend anywhere from 10 to 15 hours on one
excursion.
"My wife is very good at it," Brucker said. "We have a lot of fun
together." Although Brucker majored in fine arts at Oberlin College
and became president of OIA Marketing Communications, where he
worked for 50 years, Brucker said cave exploration was always a side
"obsession."
"When I was still working, I would take about eight to 10 weekends a
year to go explore," he said. After a week-long expedition in 1954,
Brucker ended up writing his first book on cave exploration. On Oct.
1, he released his fifth novel, "Grand, Gloomy and Peculiar," about
a slave and his explorations within Mammoth Caves. His first four
books were nonfiction. Brucker said he doesn't see an end in sight.
"It's very physically demanding and requires you to not be afraid of
the unknown because you come to things you can't do and you've never
done before," he said. "You find a deep pit and you have to find
away around it. I can't do the things I used to, but I love it just
the same."
http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20091113/LIFESTYLE/911130303
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: [email protected]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice article on this unique ecosystem and the Colorado cavers that are involved
in its study.
http://www.steamboatmagazine.com/articles/257.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is "cenote snorkeling" or "cave snorkeling" a form of caving, or would you
classify
it as spelunking ?
http://www.onejungle.com/images/8(1).jpg
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/06/7d/d2/small-cavern.jpg
http://www.hoteltraveltour.com/photos/snorkeling-cenotes-yucatan-mexico-mayan-rivie.jpg
http://floribbeandivers.com/PIC_0078-1.JPG
My view is the video below is caving, because they documented the experience
in a way
that cavers can appreciate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w867K-c_G5c
My view is that if the entire passage never leaves the twilight zone, then
it is not
a caving trip. But if the cave passage were several hundred meters with
skylights
providing a twilight zone experience, then that might be considered caving.
I think
if the trip requires use of a helmet and multiple light sources, then it
might be considered
caving. If there were sections where you had to get out and hike over a
sump, then
it might be considered caving.
But what if you do the trip at night, so that there is no twilight zone ?
If you snorkeled upstream in Honeycreek from the natural entrance and simply
came
back out, that would be a similar experience. Right ?
Obviously, if you are surveying the cave, or documenting some feature about
the cave for
a speleological report, then that would be caving. Right ?
I imagine cave snorkeling in some tropical area is a lot of fun. I have
only briefly experienced it.
I do not consider cave snorkeling an extreme sport, but I can imagine there
are places
where it would be challenging for the average person who doesn't get
outdoors much.
I wonder is it o.k. to say, "We went cave snorkeling in an underwater cave"
? My opinion is that sounds weird.
I want a bumper sticker that says "I would rather be cave snorkeling."
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The caver that Diana mentioned from Houston, is Ronnie Harrison.
He came to the Houston grotto meetings as a kid or teenager back in the
80's.
He was super enthusiastic about becoming a caver. I don't know if anybody
ever
took his enthusiasm seriously. ( I wasn't around then, so someone else
will
have to fill in the details or correct me )
I met him around 1989 or 90, and invited him on
a rappelling trip / camping trip. He seemed like someone I would
want to take caving. But then he disappeared, at least from
our point of view, and we lost contact with him for about 15 years.
He apparently ended up down in the south Pacific doing some caving on his
own,
before he finally made contact with the folks in Kentucky.
Apparently, he goes caving in the Roppel System and makes several trips from
Houston.
He gave the GHG a presentation last year, and I was quite surprised to
see him and learn of his caving accomplishments.
It was great to see him at ICS.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you need to archive your caving data for several centuries, check out
this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575005,00.html
So let's say you have archived 4 1/2 gigs of caving data. You have stored
the DVD ( or
DVD's ), and small laptop ( w/o battery and CMOS battery ), and utility cord
in a fire-retardant water-proof safe. And provided the future caver with
instructions on the operation of the laptop, and a paper summary of the
data. You included a back-up external DVD player, just in case.
You then sealed the safe with silicon glue and bailing wire, and then
wrapped the contraption with and Gorilla duct-tape. Then air-sealed it in
a large plastic foodsaver sack, and then put it in a large plastic Pelican
suitcase, and hid it in the driest most remote cave passage that you could
find, along with a note that this is a time capsule and to "please not
disturb," ( in 20 languages ).
Then presume 500 years or more pass by.
Is there going to anyone from that time period that will have any desire to
access that data. Do you really think they would be able to access it?
Even if they could access the data, would they be able to transfer it to
the device of that time period or use the data for some constructive
purpose?
Do they make a laptop that does not have a CMOS battery ? Maybe the
batteries could be sealed, so that the future caver could try to make a
similar
replacement.
I think the next hurdle is to develop a laptop that doesn't use batteries,
and uses a crank
and some kind of power saving device not affected by storage.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5340662/claims.html
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a giant ant bed that they poured concrete into and then excavated
it. It's truly worth looking at:
http://www.break.com/index/giant-ant-colony-is-a-world-wonder.html
--Ediger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Too bad they had to kill them all and destroy everything to check it out. The
woes of science.
-Denise
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:16:22 -0600
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] The ant cave
Here is a giant ant bed that they poured concrete into and then excavated it.
It's truly worth looking at:
http://www.break.com/index/giant-ant-colony-is-a-world-wonder.html
--Ediger
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've seen the result of molten aluminum poured into ant colonies as well.
Very cool looking, BUT AT WHAT COST?!
-WaV
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Gill Edigar <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here is a giant ant bed that they poured concrete into and then excavated
> it. It's truly worth looking at:
>
> http://www.break.com/index/giant-ant-colony-is-a-world-wonder.html
>
> --Ediger
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's a show on NatGeo TV on ants where they did this to other types of ants, but nothing that large.. geeze.
"Where are those Fahr Aint screens?"
Here is a giant ant bed that they poured concrete into and then excavated it. It's truly worth looking at:
--Ediger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Concrete is cheaper.
Nov 15, 2009 12:34:36 AM, [email protected] wrote:
I've seen the result of molten aluminum poured into ant colonies as well. Very cool looking, BUT AT WHAT COST?!
-WaV
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Gill Edigar
<[email protected]> wrote:
Here is a giant ant bed that they poured concrete into and then excavated it. It's truly worth looking at:
--Ediger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not particularly concerned about the precariousness of the world ant
population suffering on account of one interesting science experiment. That
thing could be written off as a piece of natural art. There's no shortage of
ants.
--Ediger
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Denise P <[email protected]> wrote:
> Too bad they had to kill them all and destroy everything to check it out.
> The woes of science.
>
> -Denise
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:16:22 -0600
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] The ant cave
>
>
> Here is a giant ant bed that they poured concrete into and then excavated
> it. It's truly worth looking at:
>
> http://www.break.com/index/giant-ant-colony-is-a-world-wonder.html
>
> --Ediger
>
> ------------------------------
> Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it
> now.<http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If they're fire ants, pour away!!
I'll help!
Mark
________________________________
From: Denise P <[email protected]>
To: TexasCavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 10:37:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] The ant cave
Too bad they had to kill them all and destroy everything to check it out. The
woes of science.
-Denise
________________________________
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:16:22 -0600
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] The ant cave
Here is a giant ant bed that they poured concrete into and then excavated it.
It's truly worth looking at:
http://www.break.com/index/giant-ant-colony-is-a-world-wonder.html
--Ediger
________________________________
Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those are American leaf-cutter ants, genus Atta. They are the most
important consumer of plant matter in the American tropics. In a
sense, they are the principal herbivore. There are a _lot_ of them.
They are a major agricultural pest in Central and South America and
can strip a garden overnight. A single colony will harvest a ton of
plant material per year. The single queen will produce 200 million
workers during the 10- to 15-year lifetime of the colony. (That's
about one egg every two seconds--busy gal!) In some natural
environments, the biomass of the ants exceeds the biomass of
vertebrates. I wouldn't worry that they are endangered. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
Rules to live by: Don't, and don't forget to.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've seen statistics provided by "them" that say pound for pound,
humans vs. ants, they outweigh us. As always, what "they" say is
subject to further verification, but it's certainly thought provoking
if true. That's quite a few ants.
On Nov 15, 2009, at 1:21 PM, Mixon Bill wrote:
Those are American leaf-cutter ants, genus Atta. They are the most
important consumer of plant matter in the American tropics. In a
sense, they are the principal herbivore. There are a _lot_ of them.
They are a major agricultural pest in Central and South America and
can strip a garden overnight. A single colony will harvest a ton of
plant material per year. The single queen will produce 200 million
workers during the 10- to 15-year lifetime of the colony. (That's
about one egg every two seconds--busy gal!) In some natural
environments, the biomass of the ants exceeds the biomass of
vertebrates. I wouldn't worry that they are endangered. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
Rules to live by: Don't, and don't forget to.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Jewel Cave National Monument." Judy L. Love. Arcadia Publishing,
Charleston, South Carolina; 2008. ISBN 987-0-7385-6198-1. Images of
America series. 6 by 9 inches, 128 pages, softbound. $21.99.
Arcadia Publishing can really churn them out. Its Images of American
series numbers more than forty-four hundred titles, from Abbeville
County to Zippo Company. Earlier cave numbers are "Mammoth Cave and
the Kentucky Cave Region" and "Wind Cave National Park: The First 100
Years," both published in 2003. All are in basically the same format,
with brief introductory text followed by black-and-white photos on a
historical theme with short-paragraph captions, adding up to 128 pages.
Jewel Cave, while it was discovered in 1900, only about twenty years
later than Wind Cave, doesn't really have a lot of early history
compared to the other two caves featured in these books, because it
was pretty much ignored until the 1960s, although it had been declared
a national monument in 1908. The serious exploration by Herb and Jan
Conn and later Mike Wiles and their companions that led to Jewel
Cave's becoming the second-longest cave in the world began at that
time, and the serious development of a modern cave tour didn't start
until the middle sixties, with the current visitors center and
elevators opening in 1972. Previously, only lantern tours from the
natural entrance of a small part of the cave were available. As a
result, less than 20 percent of the photographs are from before 1959,
so this book is less interesting to the speleo historian than the
Mammoth Cave and Wind Cave books. On the other hand, the modern
exploration of the cave is well documented by photographs by cavers,
especially David Schnute, and a considerable percentage of the
pictures show cavers in the wild parts of the cave and some of its
unusual formations, such as logomites and hydromagnesite balloons,
that are not on the tour. The photographs, one or two per page, are
well printed, although a couple of unsharp ones would have looked
better smaller. There are some errors in geology in a couple of
captions, but generally the captions, along with the introduction, add
up to a nice account of Jewel Cave.--Bill Mixon
----------------------------------------
Rules to live by: Don't, and don't forget to.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't spend extra money on "archival" CD-Rs or DVD-Rs. As I've pointed
out before, _any_ such media, properly stored (which doesn't mean in
sealed in dry nitrogen, just in a case, upright, like a book on a
shelf, in normal indoor environment) will "outlast the technology,"
which means that the data on it will be good when you no longer have
anything that will read it. Estimates for R media are at least 200
years; for RW, 50 years. Those little hard-shell 3.5-inch floppies
were introduced only 25 years ago; seen one lately? I don't think even
David's elaborate scheme of including the necessary hardware in a time
capsule would work. Modern computer chips will probably not last that
long even if not powered, due to diffusion of the atoms in the
extremely tiny features. Anyway, there wouldn't be any convenient way
to get the data out of the computer, even if you could read it on
screen. Who will have a USB cable 500 years from now?
Just assume electonically archived data will have to be recopied every
twenty years to keep up with hardward and software evolution. Or of
course, for the Luddite, good-quality paper or black-and-white
microfilm film are considered archival and don't require much
equipment to read. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
Rules to live by: Don't, and don't forget to.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend just wrote that a DVD of photos that I did for him last year is now
destroyed because he left it on a desk, in the open, beneath florescent
lights. Apparently florescents are a well known destructive device (though
not to me). Keep your stuff covered. That presumably is why we all spend as
much time underground as possible.
John Greer
----- Original Message -----
From: Mixon Bill
To: Cavers Texas
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] archiving your cave data
Don't spend extra money on "archival" CD-Rs or DVD-Rs. As I've pointed
out before, _any_ such media, properly stored (which doesn't mean in
sealed in dry nitrogen, just in a case, upright, like a book on a
shelf, in normal indoor environment) will "outlast the technology,"
which means that the data on it will be good when you no longer have
anything that will read it. Estimates for R media are at least 200
years; for RW, 50 years. Those little hard-shell 3.5-inch floppies
were introduced only 25 years ago; seen one lately? I don't think even
David's elaborate scheme of including the necessary hardware in a time
capsule would work. Modern computer chips will probably not last that
long even if not powered, due to diffusion of the atoms in the
extremely tiny features. Anyway, there wouldn't be any convenient way
to get the data out of the computer, even if you could read it on
screen. Who will have a USB cable 500 years from now?
Just assume electonically archived data will have to be recopied every
twenty years to keep up with hardward and software evolution. Or of
course, for the Luddite, good-quality paper or black-and-white
microfilm film are considered archival and don't require much
equipment to read. -- Mixon
--- End Message ---
