texascavers Digest 29 Aug 2009 00:45:20 -0000 Issue 839
Topics (messages 11919 through 11930):
Re: delete button
11919 by: Simon Newton
11920 by: Stefan Creaser
Mindless repetition
11921 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
Re: free diving in sumps-or not
11922 by: Gill Edigar
Re: a semi-funny story related to Texas Caving
11923 by: Louise Power
Re: NCKRI bat houses]
11924 by: Stephen Fleming
Installation of NCKRI bat roost
11925 by: George Veni
Re: Canyons & Caves No. 40 Now Available
11926 by: Mixon Bill
free diving
11927 by: Mixon Bill
caving deals at REI
11928 by: David Ochel
Re: 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion
11929 by: caverarch.aol.com
Re: Rethinking the delete button
11930 by: JS White
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--- Begin Message ---
I have my secretary print all my emails to paper, so I'd prefer 1 page text
minimum (Times New Roman, 10 pt font).
Also, if you could remove the history chain at the bottom this would save a
lot of paper.
Thanks in advance for your compliance on this matter,
Simon
---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Fofo <[email protected]>
> To: texascavers <[email protected]>
> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:31:40 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] delete button
> Hi!
>
> I use Mozilla's Thunderbird both in the office and my laptop. I know, it's
> a throwback, now that everything is online, but you can set it up to pretty
> much do whatever you want: leave messages on server, delete messages from
> server, delete only the ones that you delete, have messages delivered
> directly to specific folders, group messages by thread, etc. It has a pretty
> decent junk mail filter, and setting it up is easy.
>
> Even in slow connections, usually I don't even notice when messages are
> downloaded (unless it's the first time of the day and there are several big
> files to download, and for really bad connections you can put a limit on the
> size of files to download). I always have the preview panel on, and it
> literally often takes less than one second to read a message (especially
> short replies), delete them and move on to the next one.
>
> OK, 162 words. Clear to go!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you considered printing double sided?
I've left the history so you can check if this works...
Cheers,
Stefan
From: Simon Newton [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] delete button
I have my secretary print all my emails to paper, so I'd prefer 1 page
text minimum (Times New Roman, 10 pt font).
Also, if you could remove the history chain at the bottom this would
save a lot of paper.
Thanks in advance for your compliance on this matter,
Simon
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Fofo <[email protected]>
To: texascavers <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:31:40 -0700
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] delete button
Hi!
I use Mozilla's Thunderbird both in the office and my laptop. I
know, it's a throwback, now that everything is online, but you can set
it up to pretty much do whatever you want: leave messages on server,
delete messages from server, delete only the ones that you delete, have
messages delivered directly to specific folders, group messages by
thread, etc. It has a pretty decent junk mail filter, and setting it up
is easy.
Even in slow connections, usually I don't even notice when
messages are downloaded (unless it's the first time of the day and there
are several big files to download, and for really bad connections you
can put a limit on the size of files to download). I always have the
preview panel on, and it literally often takes less than one second to
read a message (especially short replies), delete them and move on to
the next one.
OK, 162 words. Clear to go!
--
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any
medium. Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too consider Texascaver to be a virtual campfire with all subjects
welcome. It does not follow that I want to see the same post repeated ad
infinitum as a reply.
Never once have I made a post to Texascaver using the reply button. In each
and every instance I send a new and original email. As a result no one has
ever had to see my comments endlessly repeated unless someone else is so
rude as to hit the reply button to send a simple "I agree" or "you're crazy"
comment followed by the mindless repetition of the entire thread.
If people won't police their own actions out of either laziness or lack of
consideration then perhaps it would be best to disable the reply function
entirely.
Since I am ranting I would also like to add that I have no interest
whatsoever in reading the trite witticisms that are automatically appended as a
suffix to so many people's emails. Whatever Aristotle or Thomas Jefferson
once had to say has no bearing on the subject at hand. Try just signing your
name like this:
Sleazeweazel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now, Andy, you're talking about "free diving" as a depth component. These
other guys are talking about "siphon shooting", free diving through water
sumps in a cave, with a length component.
I used to be able to hold my breath for 4 minutes--resting stationary in a
swimming pool after hyperventilation. Still, in the cave environment with
the attendant anxiety I don't think I would have the balls to try for a
4-minute sump dive. I started out early in my caving life shooting siphons
in Carrizal. The main one is maybe 8 or 9 meters and of minimal challenge
although 2 scouts drowned there in the '70s due probably to misunderstanding
of the otherwise straightaway route.
Several Texas caves have sump dives on the order of 3 meters or
less--Alzafar Water Cave has a couple of um, Honey Creek has one sometimes.
I've been through other in Mexico--Veshtucok (sp) being the one that comes
to mind immediately with a couple of sumps on the order of 5 to maybe 7
meters in length.
A lot of people consider even these short sumps dangerous. They require
holding one's breath maybe 10 or 12 seconds. I'd say that's well within the
average caver's capacity. With the right technique and a passage big enough
to turn around in I will opine that there is minimal danger of shooting
(free diving) sumps of up to, say, 20 or so meters for normally healthy
cavers--especially if they already know that there is air on the other end.
A guide rope is really handy.
--Ediger
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp <
[email protected]> wrote:
> I love freediving:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmv84gLdSdA
>
> My deepest dive (resulting in the biggest fish) on the video was 60ft.
> That's about 120ft, roundtrip. I can't imagine doing 395ft on a single
> breath but the world record (*without fins*!!!!) is well over 300ft
> (>600ft roundtrip).
>
> Andy
>
> Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
> 700 Billie Brooks Drive
> Driftwood, Texas 78619
> (512) 799-1095
> [email protected]
>
> --- On *Thu, 8/27/09, [email protected] <[email protected]>* wrote:
>
>
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] interesting news - free diving in sumps
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 5:54 AM
>
> I did Aqua in Bath County VA in 1995 or 1996.
>
> T
>
>
> Aug 26, 2009 10:28:10 PM,
> [email protected]<http://us.mc320.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>wrote:
>
> How many of you have ever been in a cave and done a "duck under" ?
> Like maybe in Honey Creek, where you
> hold your breath for just a second and go thru a very short sump and
> pop out on the other side.
>
> Or how about free diving a very short sump where you have to swim a
> few feet like in Carrizal or Acahuizotla?
>
> Well here is a very crazy guy in Austalia that went 395 feet on a
> single breath of air thru an underwater
> cave passage:
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article6808538.ece
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00605/news_dive_605008a.jpg
>
>
> Here is a summary:
>
>
> Mike Wells swam through Fish Rock Cave in only two minutes and 40 seconds.
>
> He narrowly averted disaster when his MONOFIN became trapped in a
> narrow crevice. His son, a member of the support team, freed him.
>
> “It was very hard,” Mr Wells said.
>
>
> Mr Wells, who describes freediving as a “grand madness”, followed a
> rope to dive down to the tunnel entrance and swam through the cave to
> the pool of light that marked its exit.
>
> The cave, on the New South Wales coast, has an ocean surge that sweeps
> through the narrow chambers.
>
> Most experts thought the cave was too long and dangerous for anyone to
> get through without oxygen tanks.
>
>
> Mr Wells’s respiratory specialist, Professor Matthew Peters, described
> the pressure that would be placed on his body:
> “During this dive, his lungs will compress dramatically, his diaphragm
> will move up, his ribs will cave in,” he said.
>
>
> David Locklear
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think that's semi-funny, I think it's very funny. Mainly because it
didn't happen to me.
Louise (sorry for the brevity of the note, but I didn't have 100 words to say
about this--even with this padding)
> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:22:44 -0500
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] a semi-funny story related to Texas Caving
>
> I used my wife's mini-van to go to ICS.
>
> Afterwards, I cleaned out the van, but she has not
> been driving it much.
>
> She had to haul a bunch of young boys in the van
> home from school today, so she thoroughly cleaned
> the van.
>
> These boys come from a very conservative wealthy
> family ( the employer of my wife ) and my wife did
> not want them to tell their parents that my wife ( their nanny )
> keeps her van with mud in it.
>
> She picked them up from school this afternoon.
>
> They are riding along, and my wife is driving
> and the youngest of the boys, about age 7, yells
>
> "Ooh, look what I found!!! Photos of naked girls in
> caves!!! "
>
> David Locklear
>
>
> P.S.
>
> It was the Texas Caving Calender. My wife, who
> has no understanding of these things, thinks it was
> sick porn, and now she is furious with me. I am
> sure I will never see that calendar again.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/environment/environment_krqe_carlsbad_nm_5000_bats_invited_to_caving_building_200908272201
--
Stephen Fleming
______________
Poor New Mexico! So far from Heaven; so close to Texas.
Manuel Armijo
Governor of the Department of New Mexico
1827-29, 1837-44, 1845-46
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear Friends of NCKRI and bats,
Construction of NCKRI Headquarters is proceeding on schedule. Yesterday
began the installation our bat roost. NCKRI Headquarters will be the world's
first building with a bat roost as part of the design. The roost was
designed by NCKRI in partnership with Bat Conservation International.
Construction of the roost should be complete within about a week. Since no
one has ever done anything like this, the contractors are a little uncertain
about how exactly long it will take them to install it! KBIM/KRQE News out
of Roswell and Albuquerque carried a story about the roost last night. The
video can be seen at
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/environment/environment_krqe_carlsbad_nm_5000_b
ats_invited_to_caving_building_200908272201.
The roost will be used for education, research, and to provide habitat to
bats in the Carlsbad area. Data, images, and sounds from the roost will be
included as one of NCKRI's museum exhibits. Phase 1 of Headquarters
construction will be complete about the end of October. Funds are being
sought to complete Phase 2 and open NCKRI Headquarters to the public as
quickly as possible.
George
***********************
George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
1400 Commerce Dr.
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220 USA
[email protected]
www.nckri.org
001-575-887-5517 (office)
001-210-863-5919 (mobile)
001-413-383-2276 (fax)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forwarded by Mixon:
Begin forwarded message:
From: [email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: August 27, 2009 9:21:28 AM CDT
To: (huge list suppressed)
Subject: Canyons & Caves No. 40 Now Available
Hi There,
The latest issue of the Resources Stewardship & Science Division
newsletter, Canyons & Caves # 40, is now available as a pdf file on the
park website at the following location. Once there scroll down to the
bottom and click on Issue 40 Summer 2009.
http://www.nps.gov/cave/planyourvisit/brochures.htm#CP_JUMP_145034
Dale
--------------------------------------------
Dale L. Pate
Acting Cave & Karst Program Coordinator
Geologic Resources Division - NPS
Supervisory Physical Scientist
Carlsbad Caverns National Park
575-785-3107
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is not surprising that free-diving, like just about everything
else, has its record-keepers. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-diving
for a list of the types of competition and the current records. Free-
diving through horizontal sumps in caves would be "dynamic apnea" with
or without fins. The longest distances are of course with fins. (The
monofin mentioned in David's post is like a mermaid's tail.) The
official records are done in swimming pools, and the record distance
for that sort of underwater swimming without taking a breath is 250
meters, over twice as far as that guy did in the sea cave in Australia.
There is a note about a long free-dive between a couple of cenotes in
Quintana Roo by Christian Redl of Austria, for a claimed distance of
101 meters, in the "Mexico News" section of AMCS Activities Newsletter
31.
The August 24 issue of The New Yorker has an article about attempts by
a couple of women to free-dive to a _depth_ of 100 meters. The women's
record is currently 96 meters, the men's 122 meters. I think the
article said something about a rule that the diver has to remain
conscious for one minute after surfacing to claim the record, which
would appear to say something about how insane that sort of thing
is.... -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi there,
Besides other neat stuff, there are some deals at REI right now that
might be of particular interest to cavers, such as Suunto KB-20
compasses (the little plastic brother of the aluminum ones that many
of us use), various Tikka models, and a Grigri for the rock climbers
amongst us...
Cheers,
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So OKAY – all is good and get it on!
OK, 'specially the squizzin'
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Palit <[email protected]>
To: 'Andy Zenker' <[email protected]>; 'TexasCavers'
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Aug 25, 2009 7:49 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion
Whoa….
After cave-camping without water except for food for a week life
is still good, and squizzin’ still worth it.
But there is not going to be that little water. Besides –
options are limited unless you want to go to Dallas for TCR.
So OKAY – all is good and get it on!
From: Andy Zenker [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:38 PM
To: TexasCavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion
Sungglin' with your main
squeeze ain't so fun when you got the stank on... but do-able I suppose
Andy Zenker
Texas Caver
--- On Tue, 8/25/09, Stefan Creaser <[email protected]>
wrote:
From: Stefan Creaser <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion
To: "TexasCavers" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 5:38 PM
Surely
we’re cavers and can wait
til we get home to clean off? Would save a bunch
of hassle/TCR expense…
Stefan
From: Rod Goke
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:36 PM
To: TexasCavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion
If I
remember correctly, there was running water available in the restrooms, and
there was a hose from that building to the cooking area, supplying water for
dishwashing, hosing off, etc. If that's still available, I don't see any need
for a water truck. Is there any reason to think that that water supply will
not be available at TCR this year?
Rod
-----Original
Message-----
From: [email protected]
Sent: Aug 24, 2009 12:26 PM
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion
Regarding washing, etc., water at TCR: how much would it cost to have a
non-potable water truck or trailer placed at the site for hosing off, filling
the hot tub, etc. if there is no flowing water at the time of the event?
Is that feasible?
Roger
Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: Fofo <[email protected]>
To: texascavers <[email protected]>
0A Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 11:19 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion
G'morning!
Speaking of Tlaloc... Here's a short story that I like very much, from Paco
Ignacio Taibo II, called "Tlaloc":
http://tinyurl.com/l3tybz ;
It's in Spanish. I couldn't find a translated version, but here's a Google
translation:
http:/tinyurl.com/lv3xbh
Some things sound funny, but I guess that you can follow most of the story in
English (it translated the name of a town, Los Tecomates, as "the
gourds," and it definitely can't handle swear words and slang, but it's
amusing to read "neither mothers" for "ni madres").
- Fofo
Allan Cobb wrote, on 24/8/09 8:12:
> Oztotl says there will be at least some water. Oztotl has spoken with
> Tlaloc and they are trying to work out a deal.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* wesley s <mailto:[email protected]> ;
> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; ;
> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> ;
> *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 10:06 AM
> *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion
> > Yes but will there be water to swim in? If levels get too low all
of
> the flow out of that reservoir will go down
that diversion channel
> and not over the dam. Is there a river authority for the Medina?
> Will they let it run dry or do they have to keep the river bed wet
> for the fish and wildlife?
> > Wes~
>
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IMPORTANT
NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and
may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person,
use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I’ve read this thread with interest, consternation, and amusement all
bundled up together. Back when this mailing list was “CaveTex,” I spent a
year (and then some) as its administrator and moderator. I inherited the job
from my dad, who just got plain tired of trying to keep up with Luddites and
flamers and headaches from the list’s various hosting services.
Here’s what I think, for what it’s worth. The “me-toos” and one-liners are
indeed a nice campfire, sociable kind of response. You guys exist in a rare
community. I’ve seen the old-timers take care of each other in ways that
just don’t happen in conventional communities and families, and I feel
blessed—albeit in a very non-religious, non-denominational way. You rely on
each other for amusement, and you work together and learn together. I work
closely with another Caver-offspring in a 40-hour/week bureaucratic
environment. We marvel regularly at what a great thing it was to be raised
by our crazy parents and their friends. In most cases, you know you can
count on each other to care about important things in the same ways—family,
friends, the land, the caves, the knowledge…your own lives.
Use the Delete key as you see fit and keep your impatience to yourselves. If
you really want to be business-minded, be cautious with your subject-lines.
Use important first words: Trip Report, Work Weekend, Action Required,
whatever. But don’t disparage each other for brevity or lack of brilliance.
Gil Edigar can write an essay that would make any of us weep. Ted Samsel can
make me laugh so hard I fear I will pee myself from a single line. But every
non-stellar rejoinder or mundane reply meant something to the person on the
other end who hit “send.” Respect that and appreciate it.
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Stefan Creaser <[email protected]>wrote:
> Have you considered printing double sided?
>
>
>
> I’ve left the history so you can check if this works…
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> *From:* Simon Newton [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2009 10:29 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] delete button
>
>
>
> I have my secretary print all my emails to paper, so I'd prefer 1 page text
> minimum (Times New Roman, 10 pt font).
>
> Also, if you could remove the history chain at the bottom this would save a
> lot of paper.
>
> Thanks in advance for your compliance on this matter,
>
> Simon
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Fofo <[email protected]>
> To: texascavers <[email protected]>
> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:31:40 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] delete button
> Hi!
>
> I use Mozilla's Thunderbird both in the office and my laptop. I know, it's
> a throwback, now that everything is online, but you can set it up to pretty
> much do whatever you want: leave messages on server, delete messages from
> server, delete only the ones that you delete, have messages delivered
> directly to specific folders, group messages by thread, etc. It has a pretty
> decent junk mail filter, and setting it up is easy.
>
> Even in slow connections, usually I don't even notice when messages are
> downloaded (unless it's the first time of the day and there are several big
> files to download, and for really bad connections you can put a limit on the
> size of files to download). I always have the preview panel on, and it
> literally often takes less than one second to read a message (especially
> short replies), delete them and move on to the next one.
>
> OK, 162 words. Clear to go!
>
>
> --
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
> information in any medium. Thank you.
>
--- End Message ---
