texascavers Digest 1 Sep 2009 15:03:13 -0000 Issue 842
Topics (messages 11954 through 11965):
Re: Big-Brother related
11954 by: Don Cooper
11955 by: Linda Palit
11956 by: Rod Goke
11960 by: Katy Roodenko
11961 by: Linda Palit
11964 by: jranzau.gmail.com
11965 by: Brian Riordan
Down to a Sunless Sea
11957 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
11958 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
Re: Amish Texas Cavers
11959 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
Deep and Punkin Cave Trip over Labor Day
11962 by: Geary Schindel
Restoration Projects need YOUR help
11963 by: Karen Perry
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--- Begin Message ---
I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones on my computer with enough
permutations, you can make up just about anything including 9/11 plans and
blueprints for thermonuke devices.
I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it should STAY my
business. As far as probing things I've thought about and not done - well
that is MINE ALONE. Stay out of my HEAD - FEDS!
And as far as tracking my relative position between cell phone towers - How
else can I receive a phone call when I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks
for reminding me, Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when
I'm out there committing crimes!
-WaV
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect vessels or vehicles
> applies only to those that have been outside the United States?
>
> Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months ago. Some guy
> came into the US from Canada and somehow the customs people learned that
> there was kiddy porn on his laptop computer and arrested him. However, the
> files were encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the encryption
> and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent could not be required to give
> up the key to the code. (I suspect this might have been a deliberate test
> case, with the offending image deliberately out where the customs inspector
> would see it.)
>
> Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt lots of
> perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't use some wimpy encryption
> facility that comes with your operating system; it is probably not
> NSA-proof. (Actually, of course, unless you deliberately do something to
> make them suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that
> they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was easy and convenient
> to encrypt everything, including all voice communications. But almost nobody
> really cares about his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around
> with their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track them in real
> time.
> --Mixon
> ----------------------------------------
> A fearless man cannot be brave.
> ----------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: [email protected]
> AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
>
>
>
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>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Was crossing in Charlie's bus one time, and they decided to put it through
the same line as the semi's for full x-ray. I went to the agent and said
something to the effect - Do you think we would take a bright orange school
bus full of cavers and try to smuggle something? Do we really look that
stupid?
For whatever reason, he moved the bus to the front of the semi line - we
had already been there forever.
That was one of the few good experiences I have had at the US border. The
ugly stories are more frequent, but not as amusing.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gill
Edigar
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Herman Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
Upon returning to the United States the DHS has a huge amount of authority
to search anything and everything in your pocession, literally anything they
want to look at is open game.
Herman is exactly right. ANY and every time you cross a border--ANY
border--you essentially and voluntarily surrender any and all personal
rights you may otherwise have. They can do anything to you and your stuff
that they want and for an inconvenient amount of time--in the name of
whatever completely off-the-wall and baseless Homeland Security law that the
running-scared Congress may have passed or DHS may have promulgated and
using any kind of profiling they adamantly deny. Without rules and
regulations they wouldn't have a job. They don't have to make sense or have
probable cause; the inspector could just be wanting to get a few jollies at
your expense--and it would be perfectly legal. They can detain you. You
pretty much have no civil rights and no defenses at that point--consider
that a given and be satisfied with it.
But the important thing to remember is that you have volunteered to this
scrutiny by voluntarily crossing the border. If you don't like that
situation don't cross any borders.
--Ediger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you really want to drive them crazy, encrypt a bunch of random number tables
and watch them try to decrypt them into something meaningful. ;)
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mixon Bill <[email protected]>
>Sent: Aug 31, 2009 9:47 PM
>To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
>Subject: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
>
>Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect vessels or
>vehicles applies only to those that have been outside the United States?
>
>Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months ago. Some
>guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the customs people
>learned that there was kiddy porn on his laptop computer and arrested
>him. However, the files were encrypted, and even the feds were unable
>to break the encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent
>could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I suspect this
>might have been a deliberate test case, with the offending image
>deliberately out where the customs inspector would see it.)
>
>Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt lots of
>perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't use some wimpy
>encryption facility that comes with your operating system; it is
>probably not NSA-proof. (Actually, of course, unless you deliberately
>do something to make them suspicious--not recommended--, it is
>extremely unlikely that they'll ever check.) It would be really nice
>if it was easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all
>voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about his
>privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with their cell
>phones turned on, making it possible to track them in real time.
>--Mixon
>----------------------------------------
>A fearless man cannot be brave.
>----------------------------------------
>You may "reply" to the address this message
>came from, but for long-term use, save:
>Personal: [email protected]
>AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hm,
Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt our
fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this one:
being taken my fingerprints at the US border.
I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my
friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason.
For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give their
fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went silently to
gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country of obedient
society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what "privacy" really
means!
Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these teachers.
Katy
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Don Cooper <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
> To: "Mixon Bill" <[email protected]>
> Cc: "Cavers Texas" <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM
> I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones
> on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up
> just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for
> thermonuke devices.
>
> I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it
> should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've
> thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay
> out of my HEAD - FEDS!
>
>
> And as far as tracking my relative position between cell
> phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when
> I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me,
> Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when
> I'm out there committing crimes!
>
>
> -WaV
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM,
> Mixon Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect
> vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been
> outside the United States?
>
>
>
> Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months
> ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the
> customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his
> laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were
> encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the
> encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent
> could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I
> suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with
> the offending image deliberately out where the customs
> inspector would see it.)
>
>
>
>
> Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt
> lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't
> use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your
> operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually,
> of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them
> suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that
> they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was
> easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all
> voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about
> his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with
> their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track
> them in real time.
>
>
> --Mixon
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> A fearless man cannot be brave.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> You may "reply" to the address this message
>
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>
> Personal: [email protected]
>
> AMCS: [email protected]
> or [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and
identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin,
etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes
fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes.
Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is
associated with things much different than it once was.
I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or
tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together.
-----Original Message-----
From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
Hm,
Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt
our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this
one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border.
I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my
friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason.
For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give
their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went
silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB country
of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what
"privacy" really means!
Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these
teachers.
Katy
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Don Cooper <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
> To: "Mixon Bill" <[email protected]>
> Cc: "Cavers Texas" <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM
> I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones
> on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up
> just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for
> thermonuke devices.
>
> I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it
> should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've
> thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay
> out of my HEAD - FEDS!
>
>
> And as far as tracking my relative position between cell
> phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when
> I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me,
> Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when
> I'm out there committing crimes!
>
>
> -WaV
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM,
> Mixon Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect
> vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been
> outside the United States?
>
>
>
> Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months
> ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the
> customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his
> laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were
> encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the
> encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent
> could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I
> suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with
> the offending image deliberately out where the customs
> inspector would see it.)
>
>
>
>
> Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt
> lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't
> use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your
> operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually,
> of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them
> suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that
> they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was
> easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all
> voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about
> his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with
> their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track
> them in real time.
>
>
> --Mixon
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> A fearless man cannot be brave.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> You may "reply" to the address this message
>
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>
> Personal: [email protected]
>
> AMCS: [email protected]
> or [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The cell phone tracking is something I had read about but never gave a ton
of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my first generation iphone
the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block area. A little close
for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using gps often shows my
precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by triangulating my
location from the cell towers but then goes a step further using the wifi
networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using the built in
accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am facing...
I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but then again I continue
to use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if you need privacy
don't buy any portable electronic device.
Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think that using cash instead
of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the strips in new money can
be picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet completely substantiated
this one yet...
Time to get out my foil hat!
Joe
On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit <[email protected]> wrote:
The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and
identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin,
etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes
fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes.
Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is
associated with things much different than it once was.
I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or
tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together.
-----Original Message-----
From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
Hm,
Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt
our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this
one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border.
I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my
friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason.
For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give
their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went
silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB
country
of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what
"privacy" really means!
Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these
teachers.
Katy
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper [email protected]> wrote:
> From: Don Cooper [email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
> To: "Mixon Bill" [email protected]>
> Cc: "Cavers Texas" [email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM
> I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones
> on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up
> just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for
> thermonuke devices.
>
> I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it
> should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've
> thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay
> out of my HEAD - FEDS!
>
>
> And as far as tracking my relative position between cell
> phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when
> I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me,
> Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when
> I'm out there committing crimes!
>
>
> -WaV
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM,
> Mixon Bill [email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect
> vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been
> outside the United States?
>
>
>
> Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months
> ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the
> customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his
> laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were
> encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the
> encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent
> could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I
> suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with
> the offending image deliberately out where the customs
> inspector would see it.)
>
>
>
>
> Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt
> lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't
> use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your
> operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually,
> of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them
> suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that
> they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was
> easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all
> voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about
> his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with
> their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track
> them in real time.
>
>
> --Mixon
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> A fearless man cannot be brave.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> You may "reply" to the address this message
>
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>
> Personal: [email protected]
>
> AMCS: [email protected]
> or [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Foil hat- I hear ya Joe!
I'm currently working on building a compliant Faraday Cage to keep out
Big Brother (who I'll from here on out I'll refer to as "Big Stepdad")
I'm gonna call it the "Faraday Freedom Frock" (working title).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
If you don't mind eliminating any way for someone to call you, I
believe there are cases comercially available to put your phone in to
block any signals in or out, but then why carry phone? Personally,
I'm still a big fan of the pager. There are also sleaves available
for blocking RFID signals- passive and active (like the ones in the
new passports).
As for physically taking data storage devices and searching them: what
a crock! If I really want to hide something, I'll have no problem
disguising or hiding 2 gigs the size of my thumbnail. What a waste of
government resources (surprise!).
As for the teachers: My wife is one of those teachers who "meekly
gave up her right to privacy". But of course, after 4 years of school
to teach they spring that rule on you, and there are plenty of people
willing to be fingerprinted to get the job- what do you do? If she
kept her "privacy" she'd have to have 3 roomates to pay the bills.
OR, give up her privacy so she could have enough money to have her own
place (at the time). It's just like the social security number: "not
to be used as identification". Try to get credit without one!
I disagree with it too, but not a lot of options...
-B
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:43 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> The cell phone tracking is something I had read about but never gave a ton
> of thought to until I bought the new iphone. On my first generation iphone
> the tracking feature could put me in a 10 or 20 block area. A little close
> for comfort but not awful. My new iphone without using gps often shows my
> precise location to within 10-30 feet. It does this by triangulating my
> location from the cell towers but then goes a step further using the wifi
> networks nearby to greatly improve the accuracy. Using the built in
> accelerometer the phone even knows what direction I am facing...
>
> I'm not entirely sure this makes me comfortable but then again I continue to
> use it. I suppose the moral of the story is that if you need privacy don't
> buy any portable electronic device.
>
> Heck, my cat has her own RFID chip. I used to think that using cash instead
> of cards also helps but now I am hearing that the strips in new money can be
> picked up by sensors at customs. I've not yet completely substantiated this
> one yet...
>
> Time to get out my foil hat!
>
> Joe
>
> On Sep 1, 2009 8:59am, Linda Palit <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The local grocery is about to require a fingerprint with check and
>>
>> identification, if you want to use a check. It has been tested in Austin,
>>
>> etc, and seems to have worked out. Babies and children are sometimes
>>
>> fingerprinted to use as comparison in the case of crimes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anonymity is becoming rare and more difficult, and fingerprinting is
>>
>> associated with things much different than it once was.
>>
>> I put this in a different category than invading my personal laptop or
>>
>> tapping my phone, but in a digital age, perhaps it all runs together.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: Katy Roodenko [mailto:[email protected]]
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:50 AM
>>
>> To: Cavers Texas
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
>>
>>
>>
>> Hm,
>>
>>
>>
>> Can we (the foreigners who for whatever reason come to visit USA) encrypt
>>
>> our fingerprints? I have never been to any as humiliating process as this
>>
>> one: being taken my fingerprints at the US border.
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess it is really not the best way to make friends. I know many of my
>>
>> friends in Europe who would not come to USA precisely for this reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> For whatever reasons, very recently, Texas Teachers were ordered to give
>>
>> their fingerprints as well. I expected riots and protests - but they went
>>
>> silently to gave up all their privacy as easily as that! What a KGB
>> country
>>
>> of obedient society who shouts loudly on privacy but really forgot what
>>
>> "privacy" really means!
>>
>>
>>
>> Really, if I had a kid, I would not like it to be educated by these
>>
>> teachers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Katy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Don Cooper [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > From: Don Cooper [email protected]>
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
>>
>> > To: "Mixon Bill" [email protected]>
>>
>> > Cc: "Cavers Texas" [email protected]>
>>
>> > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:10 AM
>>
>> > I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones
>>
>> > on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up
>>
>> > just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for
>>
>> > thermonuke devices.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it
>>
>> > should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've
>>
>> > thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay
>>
>> > out of my HEAD - FEDS!
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > And as far as tracking my relative position between cell
>>
>> > phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when
>>
>> > I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me,
>>
>> > Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when
>>
>> > I'm out there committing crimes!
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > -WaV
>>
>> >
>>
>> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM,
>>
>> > Mixon Bill [email protected]>
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect
>>
>> > vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been
>>
>> > outside the United States?
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months
>>
>> > ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the
>>
>> > customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his
>>
>> > laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were
>>
>> > encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the
>>
>> > encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent
>>
>> > could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I
>>
>> > suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with
>>
>> > the offending image deliberately out where the customs
>>
>> > inspector would see it.)
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt
>>
>> > lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't
>>
>> > use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your
>>
>> > operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually,
>>
>> > of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them
>>
>> > suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that
>>
>> > they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was
>>
>> > easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all
>>
>> > voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about
>>
>> > his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with
>>
>> > their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track
>>
>> > them in real time.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > --Mixon
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ----------------------------------------
>>
>> >
>>
>> > A fearless man cannot be brave.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ----------------------------------------
>>
>> >
>>
>> > You may "reply" to the address this message
>>
>> >
>>
>> > came from, but for long-term use, save:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Personal: [email protected]
>>
>> >
>>
>> > AMCS: [email protected]
>>
>> > or [email protected]
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>>
>> >
>>
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>> >
>>
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Waco, Texas James Jasek is interested in obtaining a copy of J.M. Boon's caving
book, Down to a Sunless Sea. It was published in 1977 and is out of print. If
anyone has a copy that they would like to sell to James, please let me know and
I will pass it on to him.
Thanks,
Bill Steele
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was late last night when I posted, and I'm no good at that hour, so I should
have written:
>>Waco caver James Jasek is interested in obtaining a copy of J.M. Boon's
>>caving
book, Down to a Sunless Sea. <<
Bill
---- [email protected] wrote:
> Waco, Texas James Jasek is interested in obtaining a copy of J.M. Boon's
> caving book, Down to a Sunless Sea. It was published in 1977 and is out of
> print. If anyone has a copy that they would like to sell to James, please let
> me know and I will pass it on to him.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Steele
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've never seen Gill with moustache when he grows a beard. Thus, he is Amish or (gasp) a Hutterite.
It HAD TO be Gill with his 'imitation oatmeal box' look.
Its hard work and sacrifice
Living in an amish paradise
-WaV
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:07 PM, mark gee
<[email protected]> wrote:
I wore a hat , that made me Amish???
From: Frank Binney <[email protected]>
To: Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:03:42 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Amish Texas Cavers
My elderly parents in Missouri scheduled a family showing of Joe Datri's
Texas Cavers movie last night. Everyone loved the film but my mom expressed
surprise at how many "Amish cavers" there are in Texas.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
We've had some people cancel this weekend for a trip to Deep and Punkin caves
so we have some more openings. If you want an opportunity to visit this cave
preserve owned by the Texas Cave Management Association, please email me ASAP.
We will be heading up on Friday and most of us will be coming back on Monday.
However, if you can only come out for one day, that's OK also.
Activities for the weekend. Caving, hanging out, working on cabin projects.
Eating.
Geary Schindel
210-326-1576 cell
210-479-2151 home
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For publication in newsletters, list or any other cave related materials that
get the word out. Please pass on.
Calling all cavers........... The bats will soon leave us and the caves of
Southeastern New Mexico will be opening for permits again. Some however will
remained closed! The BLM and Jim Goodbar wish to see these projects finished so
the caves that are closed may reopen and other caves may begin long needed
clean ups.
Give back a little time to the caves we all love and to the very caves many of
us got our first taste of a wild cave in.
The dates for the
ENDLESS Restoration Project are:
OCTOBER 24, 25,
NOVEMBER 21, 22, 28, 29
DECEMBER 12, 13, 19, 20
This project is considered priority by the BLM.
PLEASE sign up and come help! Have fun and see a great cave and maybe even some
others............... Stay in a nice warm house with hot showers, no need for
freezing on the Hill.
To sign up please contact me at [email protected]
write to Karen Perry 925 N Guadalupe Carlsbad, NM 88220
or call me at 575 - 887 - 9783 (H) or 575 - 885 - 7727 (W) or 575 - 499 - 9839
(C).
The caves need you, the BLM needs you !
Thanks for reading and look forward to seeing y'all soon,
Karen Perry
--- End Message ---
