texascavers Digest 16 Sep 2009 16:56:14 -0000 Issue 854
Topics (messages 12090 through 12109):
RFID blocking sleeves
12090 by: Louise Power
Re: cavers in the news
12091 by: mminton.caver.net
12096 by: Gill Edigar
12097 by: Louise Power
Re: OT - internet related
12092 by: Alex Sproul
Re: RFIDs and Cave Radios, Re: [Texascavers] For those of you who are crossing
the border...
12093 by: Alex Sproul
12095 by: John Brooks
is-sensitive
12094 by: Johnson, Russ (ATX)
book review: Huautla
12098 by: Mixon Bill
12100 by: Charles Goldsmith
12101 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
12104 by: Fritz Holt
12106 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
Texas bats in the news
12099 by: David
12103 by: Louise Power
"Underground"
12102 by: J. LaRue Thomas
12108 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
Re: UK bat house
12105 by: Jim Kennedy
12107 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
12109 by: Louise Power
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--- Begin Message ---
For those of you who feel it necessary to block rfid chips on your credit
cards, passports, etc, check out this site Quinta sent me a couple of weeks ago
during the height of our paranoid chatter.
Louise
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Big Brother
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:54:52 -0500
Credit Card RFID Blocking Sleeves 4.99
Passport RFID Blocking Sleeves 5.99
Quinta
OPPPs not enough words!
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--- Begin Message ---
Louise Power said:
The article said: "...with a longitude of more than four miles."
I think I'd be very careful believing someone who didn't know the
difference between length and longitude.
Okay, Louise, time to be culturally sensitive here. I don't
think it is lack of knowledge so much as a slight language problem.
The author of that article has a Hispanic name, and in Spanish the
length of a cave is referred to as longitud. I think he just used a
cognate where is was not appropriate.
Mark Minton
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It was the reporter (Spanish surname) or translator. It appears that the
article may have been originally in Spanish or Portuguese. The word
"longitud" means "length" in Spanish or, perhaps, "distance" as in English
"distance from the Prime Meridian" or "longitude".--Ediger
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Louise Power <[email protected]>wrote:
> The article said: "...with a longitude of more than four miles."
>
> I think I'd be very careful believing someone who didn't know the
> difference between length and longitude.
>
> Louise
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark,
That, of course, was not my intention. More a humorous jab at Aggies. I don't
think I even looked at the author's name. Just skimmed the article. My
apologies if anyone was offended.
Louise
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:52:08 -0500
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] RE: cavers in the news
>
> Louise Power said:
>
> > The article said: "...with a longitude of more than four miles."
>
> > I think I'd be very careful believing someone who didn't know the
> > difference between length and longitude.
>
> Okay, Louise, time to be culturally sensitive here. I don't
> think it is lack of knowledge so much as a slight language problem.
> The author of that article has a Hispanic name, and in Spanish the
> length of a cave is referred to as longitud. I think he just used a
> cognate where is was not appropriate.
>
> Mark Minton
>
>
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>if your browser doesn't do that yet, try doing it in the search box.
It's not your browser that does it, it's a Google function. Check out this page
for a lot of other cool (no, amazing) things the Google search box can do:
Alex
PS And if this is OT, why not post it to the OT list??
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Wow, excellent dissertation, Rod! Very thorough, yet never stepping over
the line into conjecture.
I, however, will 'conject' that most, if not all, RFID chips in use today employ
magnetic induction, precisely to prevent the sort of eavesdropping that folks
worry about. Case in point, the Exxon One Pass card, which must be
waved within inches of the receiver in order to be read. Seems like a no-
brainer to me, but what do I know?
Alex
--
Alex Sproul
NSS 8086RL/FE
NSS Webmaster
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--- Begin Message ---
Here is a little known caver fact....one of our own Texas Cavers, El Coyote of
North Texas, was at the forefront and was instrumental in the development of
the Mobil speed pass now used by Exxon.....
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 15, 2009, at 1:09 PM, "Alex Sproul" <[email protected]> wrote:
Wow, excellent dissertation, Rod! Very thorough, yet never stepping over the
line into conjecture.
I, however, will 'conject' that most, if not all, RFID chips in use today
employ magnetic induction, precisely to prevent the sort of eavesdropping that
folks worry about. Case in point, the Exxon One Pass card, which must be waved
within inches of the receiver in order to be read. Seems like a no- brainer to
me, but what do I know?
Alex
--
Alex Sproul
NSS 8086RL/FE
NSS Webmaster
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--- Begin Message ---
>> I think he just used a cognate where is was not appropriate.
Never trust a chemist caver who is was a verb abusist.
Russ K. Johnson
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--- Begin Message ---
"Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves." C.
William Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN
978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9 inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.
The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white
photos were indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might
charitably be called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of
editing, but it could have used a little more. Still, it reads well
enough.
That said, this is an important and valuable book. Way too few
first-person accounts of exploration by American cavers have been
commercially published. Sistema Huautla was the first of the deep
caves in southern Mexico found and explored, and it is essentially
tied for deepest cave in the Western Hemisphere. Steele was one of the
principal explorers in the caves in the Huautla area during the late
seventies and early eighties and as much time as he could spare from
work and family since. He was on the trips in the spring of 1980 that
made Li Nita the first thousand-meter-deep cave outside of Europe and
then, barely a month later, connected it into Sótano de San Agustín to
create the Huautla system. Being short-roped and trapped deep in San
Agustín for several days in 1977 and the famous 1994 diving expedition
from the point of view of those on the surface are among the other
tales in the book.
This is a personal narrative of Steele's trips to Huautla, based
on the logs he has kept of all his caving over the years. It is not
meant to be a complete history of the project, and I probably made a
mistake by leafing back to try to understand what was going on. (The
worthless maps scattered throughout the book don't help.) Take it for
what it is, and just sit back and enjoy the stories of hard caving in
deep caves.--Bill Mixon
----------------------------------------
Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---
Bill, just my opinion on it, but I disagree on your critique. I don't
see anything amateurish about the typesetting, let alone the layout.
Most books of this type of similar problems with the pictures, but
this just gives it a more personal touch instead of a true commercial
style book with boorish pictures. These pictures are relative to the
overall story and since it wasn't a commercial book, they were
probably pulled from whatever sources they could find, no paid
photography at all. It was probably edited too much, so no, it
shouldn't have been edited more.
Again, this isn't a commercial book, and I think you are being way too
hard on it. It was a great read, I couldn't put it down and wanted
more of it.
My only complaint about it was the lack of material later on, but due
to real life issues, Bill Steele wasn't involved as much in the cave
system, but since he was only writing from his vewpoint, that couldn't
be helped.
I hope Bill Steele writes another, I have both of his books and they
are great to read.
Charles
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves." C. William
> Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
> inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.
>
> The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
> indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
> called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
> have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.
>
> That said, this is an important and valuable book. Way too few
> first-person accounts of exploration by American cavers have been
> commercially published. Sistema Huautla was the first of the deep caves in
> southern Mexico found and explored, and it is essentially tied for deepest
> cave in the Western Hemisphere. Steele was one of the principal explorers in
> the caves in the Huautla area during the late seventies and early eighties
> and as much time as he could spare from work and family since. He was on the
> trips in the spring of 1980 that made Li Nita the first thousand-meter-deep
> cave outside of Europe and then, barely a month later, connected it into
> Sótano de San Agustín to create the Huautla system. Being short-roped and
> trapped deep in San Agustín for several days in 1977 and the famous 1994
> diving expedition from the point of view of those on the surface are among
> the other tales in the book.
>
> This is a personal narrative of Steele's trips to Huautla, based on the
> logs he has kept of all his caving over the years. It is not meant to be a
> complete history of the project, and I probably made a mistake by leafing
> back to try to understand what was going on. (The worthless maps scattered
> throughout the book don't help.) Take it for what it is, and just sit back
> and enjoy the stories of hard caving in deep caves.--Bill Mixon
> ----------------------------------------
> Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again.
> ----------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: [email protected]
> AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Heck, the same could be said about every issue of The TEXAS CAVER!
Mark (the you-get-what-you-pay-for TC Editor)
________________________________
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves." C. William
> Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
> inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.
>
> The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
> indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
> called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
> have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, you mean a great read?
Fritz
PS. When will the third quarter hard copies be mailed?
________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:43 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith; Mixon Bill
Cc: Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla
Heck, the same could be said about every issue of The TEXAS CAVER!
Mark (the you-get-what-you-pay-for TC Editor)
________________________________
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves." C. William
> Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
> inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.
>
> The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
> indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
> called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
> have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are supposed to be shipped to me on Friday, Fritz.
They should be going out about a week from now.
If y'all ain't TSA members, you need to rectify that for this issue!
Thanks,
Mark
________________________________
From: Fritz Holt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wed 9/16/2009 11:38 AM
To: Alman, Mark @ IRP; Charles Goldsmith; Mixon Bill
Cc: Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla
Oh, you mean a great read?
Fritz
PS. When will the third quarter hard copies be mailed?
________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:43 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith; Mixon Bill
Cc: Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla
Heck, the same could be said about every issue of The TEXAS CAVER!
Mark (the you-get-what-you-pay-for TC Editor)
________________________________
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves." C. William
> Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
> inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.
>
> The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
> indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
> called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
> have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2009-09/15/bats-get-%C2%A3120,000-designer-lair-in-london-.aspx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Think the design is gorgeous, but will it attract bats?
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:07:27 -0500
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] Texas bats in the news
>
> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2009-09/15/bats-get-%C2%A3120,000-designer-lair-in-london-.aspx
>
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The first of a 5 issue comic series based on Park Ranger and caver Wesley
Fischer's mission to save Stillwater Cave from development is finally here!
http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/
Kinda fun, if you turn your critical mind down a bit. Jacqui
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Great looking cover art, for sure, Jacqui!
I especially liked the third issue of our heroine dangling on rope.
The covers alone would make for some great prints to hang at the house,
Mark
________________________________
From: J. LaRue Thomas [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wed 9/16/2009 8:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] "Underground"
The first of a 5 issue comic series based on Park Ranger and caver Wesley
Fischer's mission to save Stillwater Cave from development is finally here!
http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/
Kinda fun, if you turn your critical mind down a bit. Jacqui
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That, Louise, is the $10,000 question. Or rather, the £125,000 question. ;)
I am sure, at least I hope, that being a wildlife organization they would have
gotten input from knowledgeable bat professionals in the UK (of which there are
many), and not just from architects. The design looks like nothing we would
ever recommend for bats in the US, but I don't really understand how it is
constructed and how it is supposed to meet the bats' needs. BCI had zero input
in this project, in fact, this is the first we heard of it. I hope for their
sake that it does what they expect, but even if it doesn't, they end up with an
interesting, albeit expensive, sculpture.
-- Jim Kennedy
Conservation Biologist
Bat Conservation International
From: Louise Power [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:37 AM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Texas bats in the news
Think the design is gorgeous, but will it attract bats?
> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2009-09/15/bats-get-%C2%A3120,000-designer-lair-in-london-.aspx
>
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--- Begin Message ---
That is a cool looking design, indeed, Jim.
But, will bats fly up and into a structure with the opening that close to the
ground or water?
I'll defer to Jim and the other more knowledgeable bat experts here.
Mark
________________________________
From: Jim Kennedy [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wed 9/16/2009 11:46 AM
To: Louise Power; Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: UK bat house
That, Louise, is the $10,000 question. Or rather, the £125,000 question. ;)
I am sure, at least I hope, that being a wildlife organization they would have
gotten input from knowledgeable bat professionals in the UK (of which there are
many), and not just from architects. The design looks like nothing we would
ever recommend for bats in the US, but I don't really understand how it is
constructed and how it is supposed to meet the bats' needs. BCI had zero input
in this project, in fact, this is the first we heard of it. I hope for their
sake that it does what they expect, but even if it doesn't, they end up with an
interesting, albeit expensive, sculpture.
-- Jim Kennedy
Conservation Biologist
Bat Conservation International
From: Louise Power [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:37 AM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Texas bats in the news
Think the design is gorgeous, but will it attract bats?
> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2009-09/15/bats-get-%C2%A3120,000-designer-lair-in-london-.aspx
>
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Well, Jim, as we all know, bats seek out some pretty strange places to
roost--bridges, attics, underneath siding, caves, etc--so if they have some
place to cling, maybe this will all work out for them. But as with any real
estate, it's location, location, location.
Louise
PS: I'm not sure I'd pay that much for that particular piece of sculpture.
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:46:21 -0500
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: UK bat house
That, Louise, is the $10,000 question. Or rather, the £125,000 question. ;)
I am sure, at least I hope, that being a wildlife organization they would have
gotten input from knowledgeable bat professionals in the UK (of which there are
many), and not just from architects. The design looks like nothing we would
ever recommend for bats in the US, but I don’t really understand how it is
constructed and how it is supposed to meet the bats’ needs. BCI had zero input
in this project, in fact, this is the first we heard of it. I hope for their
sake that it does what they expect, but even if it doesn’t, they end up with an
interesting, albeit expensive, sculpture.
-- Jim Kennedy
Conservation Biologist
Bat Conservation International
From: Louise Power [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:37 AM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Texas bats in the news
Think the design is gorgeous, but will it attract bats?
> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2009-09/15/bats-get-%C2%A3120,000-designer-lair-in-london-.aspx
>
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