texascavers Digest 20 Sep 2009 04:19:22 -0000 Issue 856
Topics (messages 12123 through 12130):
Re: Book editing and proofreading
12123 by: Gill Edigar
Xilitla House (somewhat off topic)
12124 by: Greg Passmore
Countries with the most surveyed underground passages?
12125 by: Fofo
12126 by: caverarch.aol.com
Ownership of Cascade Caverns still in question :
12127 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
TSA elections
12128 by: Ron Ralph
144 short computer games about cave exploring
12129 by: Lee H. Skinner
video game related
12130 by: David
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--- Begin Message ---
All of that is perfectly true--as based on actual publications readily to
hand. Still, it is completely fair for the reviewer to point out those
shortcomings--and I would suggest expected as we should want an honest
assessment. Just because a book is sloppily done does not mean that the
reviewer (who is ultimately being challenged in this thread) must be equally
sloppy in reviewing it. --Ediger
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Carl Kunath <[email protected]>wrote:
> Many caving publications are done with very low budgets. As a result,
> there is no staff of well-paid graphic artists and proofreaders standing by
> to take over when the manuscript and illustrations are plopped upon the
> publisher's desk. As a result, volunteer, non-professionals do the best
> they can with the time and resources available. Results vary depending on
> deadlines, level of interest, ability, and (perhaps most importantly) the
> personal standards of those involved.
>
> Fortunately for many authors/publishers, the caving community is not too
> picky about such things and many readers are satisfied with mediocre
> journalism, sloppy layout, muddy-looking illustrations, and slip-shod
> indexes.
>
> The production of a work of any significant size is a major undertaking
> and, when the end appears near, some things are pushed aside in the last
> minute fervor to "get the job done." Indexes are often casualties in such
> situations.
>
> As Pete has mentioned, the job of indexing is very important and offers a
> last opportunity to catch errors, particularly in spelling of proper names.
> A good index is a vital part of a book and deserves just as much care as any
> other portion.
>
> The indexes for 50 YEARS OF TEXAS CAVING (22 three-column pages) were meant
> to be as thorough as possible and are the result of many, many hours of
> labor by Katie Arens, Logan McNatt, Jerry Atkinson, and myself. Human
> indexing to the max!
>
> ===Carl Kunath
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* [email protected]
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Cc:* [email protected] ; [email protected] ;
> [email protected] ; [email protected] ;
> [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:41 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Re: [Texascavers] Re: book review: Huautla
>
> Computer indexing is often nearly a joke. Human indexing, alas, is seldom
> done any more.
>
> T
>
>
> Sep 16, 2009 04:08:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> You can always do additional editing and checking, but I suspect in this
> case it was deemed more important to have the book out in time for the ICS.
> One way to catch the errors that Mark mentioned is to do an index.
> Particularly for a book like this, where there are a number of people and a
> number of places mentioned, an index is valuable for folks to find a
> particular name. And when you index such a volume you always end up with
> "almost duplicate" or similar spellings that can then be discovered and
> corrected.
> The *Atlas of the Great Caves of the World* is a good example where the
> index paid off big time because of the amount of "foreign" names that went
> well beyond the 128 character fonts available at the time. The solution was
> to design a special 256 character font with all the special accents, etc.
> Fortunately computer technology has come a long way since that 20 year old
> edition.
> I thought it was a great read and look forward to similar books by both
> Bill and others cavers.
>
> - Pete
> CaveBooks.com
>
> On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Mark Minton wrote:
>
> Charles Goldsmith said:
>
> >Bill, just my opinion on it, but I disagree on your critique.
> >It was probably edited too much, so no, it shouldn't have been edited
> more.
>
> I have to disagree about the editing, Charles. It _did_ need more,
> as Mixon said. Sure, it reads well and makes a great story, but there are
> things an editor should have caught. For example, the large room in San
> Agustín where Camp III was located is spelled at least three ways: Sala
> Grande de la Sierra Mazateca (p. 26), Sala Grande de las Sierra Mazateca (p.
> 109), and Sala Grande de las Sierra Mazatecas (p. 146). The first is
> correct. Swiss caver Philippe Rouiller's last name is also spelled three
> different ways on pages 193-4. Or how about on p. 201 where it says that a
> row of stalagmites hung on the ceiling? However the most egregious error is
> that the north arrow on all of the line maps in the chapters points the
> wrong way, although it is correct inside the front cover. That can be very
> confusing if one doesn't know the system and tries to make sense of some of
> the progress described in the book. There are also several minor factual
> errors, but those are mostly inconsequential and would not be detectable by
> the casual reader.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I like the book and found it to be fast
> reading. I too look forward to Steele's next book. But I hope it is better
> edited.
>
> Mark Minton
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While caving in Mexico, many of you have probably visited Las Pozas in
Xilitla. My first visit there was in the early 1970s when Edward
James (buddy of Picasso and Dali) was still there and it under
construction. The mansion has fallen into disrepair and was recently
purchased by a foundation. They have applied to make the facility a
World Heritage Site and we produced an educational film about the
place. You can see a teaser at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCvpu7IgtYg
Sorry if this is not exactly about caves, but I think lots and lots of
cavers have visited and love this place. I hope the foundation can
manage to preserve this incredible place.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi!
A few days ago there was a question in the Spanish language list
Tlamaqui about which country had the most surveyed passages in the
world, so as a quick estimate I took the list of caves with more than
15,000 m and grouped it by country. Bill Mixon found the information
interesting and suggested posting it here too. Here it is.
By surveyed length (in meters, only for caves with more than 15,000 m):
3,512,792 U.S.A.
1,108,194 Spain
950,217 Mexico
756,530 Austria
492,463 Switzerland
459,558 China
416,831 Ukraine
360,890 United Kingdom
323,901 Malaysia
310,133 Italy
239,000 Cuba
185,890 Brazil
183,103 Australia
173,821 Romania
135,065 Russia
126,800 Papua New Guinea
90,200 Moldova/Ukraine
76,401 New Zealand
74,134 Slovakia
70,668 India
57,000 Turkmenistan
56,000 Belize
36,010 Puerto Rico
34,600 Venezuela
32,500 Czech Rep.
24,080 Georgia
23,916 Hungary/Slovakia
23,700 Japan
23,620 Poland
23,266 France
21,814 Norway
21,000 Philippines
20,718 Canada
20,570 Slovenia
18,400 Algeria
18,400 Morocco
18,200 Indonesia
18,100 Madagascar
18,000 Bulgaria
16,396 Croatia
16,000 Belgium
15,100 Ethiopia
15,000 Ireland
And by number of caves with more than 15,000 m:
76 U.S.A.
43 France
28 Spain
20 Mexico
18 Austria
13 China
11 Italy
10 United Kingdom
7 Cuba
7 Romania
6 Switzerland
6 Malaysia
5 Ukraine
5 Brazil
4 Australia
4 Papua New Guinea
3 Slovakia
3 India
3 Russia
2 Belize
2 Puerto Rico
2 New Zealand
2 Venezuela
1 Belgium
1 Indonesia
1 Slovenia
1 Morocco
1 Algeria
1 Ethiopia
1 Ireland
1 Madagascar
1 Bulgaria
1 Croatia
1 Moldova/Ukraine
1 Georgia
1 Hungary/Slovakia
1 Turkmenistan
1 Czech Rep.
1 Japan
1 Philippines
1 Canada
1 Poland
1 Norway
Have a great weekend! I'm off to the mountains.
- Fofo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fofo,
Cheers for producing an interesting compilation! ?My first thought at looking
it over is that to convert the figures into 'caves per square kilometer' or
some measure like that which takes the size of the country into consideration
would be likewise interesting. ?Look at Cuba, for example, with 1/15th the
length of surveyed passages currently recorded in the US squeezed into (or out
of) that tiny island nation. ?Your data could be used in this manner, for
example, to index roughly the relative investment of serious caving effort from
country to country. ?
The first distribution also looks like it might plot as close to a straight
line on a log-log plot. ?I heard many years ago (in the days of punch cards)
that such a plot could be obtained, for example, if you similarly plot the size
of cities in a country or large state. ?That sort of distribution is called the
"Rank/Size Rule." ?It is supposed to be the result of stochastic processes, but
back in the early 1980s when I wrote a hopelessly naive article on the cave
length distribution for the cave and computing newsleter (Statistical
Analysis of Cave Rank/Size Relationships.?
National Speleological Society, Computer?Applications
Section, Newsletter, No. 15), I couldn't find a definition for that word. ?I
suppose I could now, but I'll settle for "chance," as I was told by a real
scientist I asked back then. ?
Roger Moore
GHG
-----Original Message-----
From: Fofo <[email protected]>
To: texascavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:34 pm
Subject: [Texascavers] Countries with the most surveyed underground passages?
Hi!?
?
A few days ago there was a question in the Spanish language list
Tlamaqui about which country had the most surveyed passages in the
world, so as a quick estimate I took the list of caves with more than
15,000 m and grouped it by country. Bill Mixon found the information
interesting and suggested posting it here too. Here it is.?
?
By surveyed length (in meters, only for caves with more than 15,000 m):?
?
3,512,792 U.S.A.?
1,108,194 Spain?
950,217 Mexico?
756,530 Austria?
492,463 Switzerland?
459,558 China?
416,831 Ukraine?
360,890 United Kingdom?
323,901 Malaysia?
310,133 Italy?
239,000 Cuba?
185,890 Brazil?
183,103 Australia?
173,821 Romania?
135,065 Russia?
126,800 Papua New Guinea?
90,200 Moldova/Ukraine?
76,401 New Zealand?
74,134 Slovakia?
70,668 India?
57,000 Turkmenistan?
56,000 Belize?
36,010 Puerto Rico?
34,600 Venezuela?
32,500 Czech Rep.?
24,080 Georgia?
23,916 Hungary/Slovakia?
23,700 Japan?
23,620 Poland?
23,266 France?
21,814 Norway?
21,000 Philippines?
20,718 Canada?
20,570 Slovenia?
18,400 Algeria?
18,400 Morocco?
18,200 Indonesia?
18,100 Madagascar?
18,000 Bulgaria?
16,396 Croatia?
16,000 Belgium?
15,100 Ethiopia?
15,000 Ireland?
?
And by number of caves with more than 15,000 m:?
?
76 U.S.A.?
43 France?
28 Spain?
20 Mexico?
18 Austria?
13 China?
11 Italy?
10 United Kingdom?
7 Cuba?
7 Romania?
6 Switzerland?
6 Malaysia?
5 Ukraine?
5 Brazil?
4 Australia?
4 Papua New Guinea?
3 Slovakia?
3 India?
3 Russia?
2 Belize?
2 Puerto Rico?
2 New Zealand?
2 Venezuela?
1 Belgium?
1 Indonesia?
1 Slovenia?
1 Morocco?
1 Algeria?
1 Ethiopia?
1 Ireland?
1 Madagascar?
1 Bulgaria?
1 Croatia?
1 Moldova/Ukraine?
1 Georgia?
1 Hungary/Slovakia?
1 Turkmenistan?
1 Czech Rep.?
1 Japan?
1 Philippines?
1 Canada?
1 Poland?
1 Norway?
?
Have a great weekend! I'm off to the mountains.?
?
? - Fofo?
?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavern killer claims stake in tourist attraction
_By Zeke MacCormack _ (http://www.mysa
nantonio.com/email_us?contentID=59563782) - Express-News
BOERNE — The life sentence given Dario Acevedo on Monday for the 2005
murder of a man at Cascade Caverns Park leaves unresolved one of his legal
issues in Kendall County.
Still pending in probate court is a claim by Acevedo to part ownership of
the tourist attraction based on a handwritten will left by his late
girlfriend, Jill Beardsley, who owned the site with Florida resident Jim Kyle,
also
deceased.
“We think the will she wrote out is valid,” said Ruperto Garcia, Acevedo's
attorney, on Tuesday.
The document, dated Nov. 12, 2004, and apparently signed by Beardsley and
two witnesses, leaves Acevedo, who worked there about a decade, half her
interest in the cavern business as well as “all ready cash,” her home there
and personal belongings.
But Boerne lawyer Robert Ogle, who represented Beardsley before her March
2, 2005, death from an aspirin overdose at age 55, says Acevedo has no
ownership rights.
He said Beardsley's share in the tourist attraction automatically
transferred to Kyle under an earlier survivorship agreement that left each
party's
half-interest to the other should one die.
“I don't think the (handwritten) will is valid,” Ogle said. “She knew full
well she had an agreement with Jim (Kyle).”
Ogle now works for Beardsley's sister, Kelly Beardsley, who wants the court
to recognize a 1994 will filed by her sister.
The nature of Acevedo's relationship with Jill Beardsley is a point of
bitter contention among the parties.
Ramiro Acevedo said his son and Beardsley lived as husband and wife for
years. He cited a Cascade Caverns business card in the probate file that bears
the name “Capt. Jill B. Acevedo.”
Kelly Beardsley has called claims of a common law marriage “ridiculous.”
Ogle is unsure if the case will be litigated because, he said, “Going
through the probate is kind of futile because there wasn't much left in the
estate.”
But Acevedo's lawyer, Garcia, plans to press his client's claim, which he
said was put on hold pending his retrial. Acevedo was convicted of murder in
2005 but the verdict was overturned on appeal.
Last week a Kendall County jury again convicted Acevedo, 31, of murder in
the shooting death of Jeffery Donofrio, a friend of Kyle's who was helping
make repairs at the caverns site in the wake of Jill Beardsley's death.
Rejecting leniency pleas from Acevedo's supporters, state District Judge
Keith Williams handed down the maximum sentence Monday.
The probate court file on Beardsley also includes a 2005 claim on the
estate by Donofrio's parents, Lawrence and Ann Donofrio, also now deceased.
Their lawyer said the probate claim was resolved under a confidential
settlement in a wrongful death claim brought against Kyle and Acevedo, as
Kyle's
employee.
Andrew Hix, attorney for Kyle's family, declined to comment Tuesday.
_http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/Cavern_killer_claims_stake_in_t
ourist_attraction.html_
(http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/Cavern_killer_claims_stake_in_tourist_attraction.html)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers,
This is the last call for nominations. Let me know if you are interested or
know someone who would make a fine officer.
Ron Ralph
Cavers,
Election of officers for 2010 will be held at TCR, probably Sunday, October
18th (to be finalized later). President Mark Alman appointed me Elections
Committee Chair to fill a slate for the four offices. This is the first call
for interested candidates. You must be a member of both the Texas
Speleological Association and the National Speleological Society to hold
office. Please respond to me off-line if you are interested in serving. And
if you are not interested but think you know someone who would do a good job
let me know and I will twist their arm to run.
Write if you have questions or suggestions to help me fill the slate. And
pass this on to others who may not subscribe to the list.
Ron Ralph (Sent 9/5/2009)
Duties of TSA Officers
Nominations for TSA officers are in process. This page is an excerpt from
the TSA Constitution describing the duties of TSA Officers.
Article IV: Officers
A. The Executive Council consists of the Chairman, Vice-Chairman, Secretary,
Treasurer and the Chair of each standing committee. Elected officers shall
take office on the first day of the New Year.
1. The Chairman, when present, shall preside over all TSA meetings.
2. The Vice-Chairman is responsible for meeting and program arrangements and
shall preside at TSA meeting is the absence of the Chairman.
3. The Secretary records the minutes of TSA meetings and maintains a current
list of members.
4. The Treasurer keeps track of TSA assets by maintaining adequate financial
records, including those for The Texas Caver. The Treasurer prepares a
budget for the fiscal year, maintains the membership database, and insures
the database is available electronically to the membership.
B. A vacancy in any elected office other than that of Chairman may be filled
by the Executive Council by appointing any full member in good standing or
by special election if so desired by the Executive Council.
C. The Vice-Chairman shall fill a vacancy in the office of Chairman.
D. Officers may be removed from their position by a three-quarters majority
vote at any Member Meeting.
NOTES: The vice chair has historically organized the TSA spring convention.
And the chairman is responsible for organizing the TSA business
meetings...ie preparing agendas, scheduling the meeting...keeping things
moving at the meetings....and being a "speleo-referee" to keep things civil.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting:
http://www.destructoid.com/ludum-dare-gives-us-144-short-games-about-cave-exploring-149125.phtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rumor is, the old arcade video game "Spelunker," is coming to Playstation 3 soon
with some minor graphic upgrades:
http://psnation.org/podcast/files/image/tgs08/954487_20081009_screen001.jpg
Note some of the characters actually look like spelunkers.
The old game was really a mine shaft, while the new version has some
speleothems,
and graphics to represent cave walls.
I am not a gamer, so I will let someone else tell the rest of the story.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
