texascavers Digest 2 Aug 2009 19:56:22 -0000 Issue 817
Topics (messages 11583 through 11600):
Re: ICS related
11583 by: vivbone.att.net
11584 by: Denise P
11590 by: Charles Goldsmith
11594 by: Linda Palit
11597 by: Nancy Weaver
11599 by: Don Arburn
BlackBerries and this list
11585 by: J. LaRue Thomas
Re: Speaking of batteries....
11586 by: Gill Edigar
Facebook related
11587 by: David
11588 by: Bill Bentley
Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
11589 by: mark gee
11600 by: Mark Minton
Re: Weighting down Bill Steele's pack
11591 by: mark gee
Re: Bill Steele: hero or human tugboat?
11592 by: mark gee
ICS
11593 by: Ernest Garza
11596 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
The August 2009 issue of "The Hole News" is now on the web
11595 by: Bill Bentley
Hole News photo credit
11598 by: J. LaRue Thomas
Administrivia:
To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
<[email protected]>
To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
<[email protected]>
To post to the list, e-mail:
<[email protected]>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Steve'smargin of error was actually .02 inches. Way less than 2 cm. He
brought his own equipment from Nevada, and spenta lot of time on it. It is
greatly appreciated. I'll be doing awrite up on the results. It's not often we
get a chance to compare severalsurvey team's (seven to be exact) data to a well
defined "correct" survey like this.
-Vivian
10
My good friend Steve Deveny proofed the survey course to i wanna say 2cm and is
a professional surveyor. I don't really have any input there just wanted to
throw kudos where I could.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did not forsake pay, but as vacation time is more precious to me than money
(I'd take time off without pay if I could), I'd say donating 1/3 of my annual
vacation time to ICS was no small deal to me. Painful in fact...
-Denise
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 03:54:49 -0500
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] ICS Related
I would be interested in knowing how many volunteers at ICS took time off of
their jobs with no vacation compensation
(they forsake income) to attend ICS?
Unemployment does not count.
-WaV
_________________________________________________________________
Get free photo software from Windows Live
http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_PH_software:082009
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The same for me Denise, but I took off 7 days out of my 10 that I get
a year (2 weeks = 10 working days) of vacation, so it was a big
sacrifice for me as well. It was a paid vacation, but I get so little
of it...
Very painful
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Denise P<[email protected]> wrote:
> I did not forsake pay, but as vacation time is more precious to me than
> money (I'd take time off without pay if I could), I'd say donating 1/3 of my
> annual vacation time to ICS was no small deal to me. Painful in fact...
>
> -Denise
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 03:54:49 -0500
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] ICS Related
>
> I would be interested in knowing how many volunteers at ICS took time off of
> their jobs with no vacation compensation
> (they forsake income) to attend ICS?
> Unemployment does not count.
>
> -WaV
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Vacation is more precious than money
TRUE for many, I think.
It is hard to get enough vacation, even if you are willing to do w/o pay.
I am very fortunate to finally be self employed so that I make more of those
decisions.
Many places will not let one take time off without pay.
From: Denise P [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:37 AM
To: TexasCavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] ICS Related
I did not forsake pay, but as vacation time is more precious to me than
money (I'd take time off without pay if I could), I'd say donating 1/3 of my
annual vacation time to ICS was no small deal to me. Painful in fact...
-Denise
_____
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 03:54:49 -0500
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] ICS Related
I would be interested in knowing how many volunteers at ICS took time off of
their jobs with no vacation compensation
(they forsake income) to attend ICS?
Unemployment does not count.
-WaV
_____
Get free photo software from Windows Live Click here.
<http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-
US:SI_PH_software:082009>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Vacation is more precious than money
Many places will not let one take time off without pay.
Maybe the question is - whose life is this anyway and what am I
willing to trade for it?
Nnacy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Live to work
Or
Work to live.
Don's iPhone.
On Aug 2, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Nancy Weaver <[email protected]> wrote:
Vacation is more precious than money
Many places will not let one take time off without pay.
Maybe the question is - whose life is this anyway and what am I
willing to trade for it?
Nnacy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For any of you out there with BlackBerries...I saw a post recently that said
it was sent from a BlackBerry. My posts get kicked back because my BB
receives through [email protected] but sends from
[email protected]. I have read for seems like hours trying
to find a fix to no avail.
Perhaps I just need to register the BB address w/the texascaver list?
If someone knows the fix, please contact me off-list. Thanks, Jacqui
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>>>------------------Fwd from SIVTAC---------------------->
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cheryl Jones <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Subject: Speaking of batteries....
To: [email protected]
"New virus-built battery could power cars, electronic devices"
Anne Trafton, News Office
April 2, 2009
For the first time, MIT researchers have shown they can genetically
engineer viruses to build both the positively and negatively charged
ends of a lithium-ion battery.
The new virus-produced batteries have the same energy capacity and
power performance as state-of-the-art rechargeable batteries being
considered to power plug-in hybrid cars, and they could also be used
to power a range of personal electronic devices, said Angela Belcher,
the MIT materials scientist who led the research team." Read full
article here:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/virus-battery-0402.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It looks like at least 100 Texas cavers are on Facebook, and
conversation is more active
there between cavers than on CaveTex.
I have only been there a month, so I don't know when Facebook became so popular
among Texas cavers.
But it seems that ICS generated a reason for cavers to connect with
each other on Facebook.
I certainly can now identify more Texas cavers by face and name than I
could prior to ICS and Facebook.
I only wanted to point that out, because it could have a positive
effect on Texas caving, and in 10 years
we can look back and note that something occurred on the caving scene
in the summer of 2009.
I don't think it is a fad. I think as more and more people grow
accustomed to texting on their portable
gadgets, that cavers are going to be in almost constant contact with
one another.
That is completely different, from the way cavers organized trips just
10 years ago. I was still mailing
post cards, or making land-line calls.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>I was still mailing
post cards, or making land-line calls.
I prefer telegraphy to voice land lines...
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:40 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Facebook related
It looks like at least 100 Texas cavers are on Facebook, and
conversation is more active
there between cavers than on CaveTex.
I have only been there a month, so I don't know when Facebook became so
popular
among Texas cavers.
But it seems that ICS generated a reason for cavers to connect with
each other on Facebook.
I certainly can now identify more Texas cavers by face and name than I
could prior to ICS and Facebook.
I only wanted to point that out, because it could have a positive
effect on Texas caving, and in 10 years
we can look back and note that something occurred on the caving scene
in the summer of 2009.
I don't think it is a fad. I think as more and more people grow
accustomed to texting on their portable
gadgets, that cavers are going to be in almost constant contact with
one another.
That is completely different, from the way cavers organized trips just
10 years ago. I was still mailing
post cards, or making land-line calls.
David Locklear
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill, I found a rock with your name on it! I still owe you a rock or three.
________________________________
From: Don Cooper <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Charles Goldsmith <[email protected]>; [email protected];
[email protected]; mark gee <[email protected]>;
[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 4:33:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
I believe it! You can TRUST the Man O' Steele at his word!
(Oh, and where did you want me to ship those lead bars to, Bill?)
-WaV
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:43 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Ok, all y'all can relax now. I've quit rocking packs. The pinnacle of my
rockin' career was Frank Binney
>last week and James Brown this week. I'm going to quit now. So, you don't need
>to guard your packs. Don't
>practice "rock paranoia" in other words.
>
>Bill
>
>
>---- Charles Goldsmith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I dunno if he found it or not, he didn't say anything.
>>
>> I'm making a mental note, never to leave any bags unattended around Mr.
>> Steele.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Ok, I'll do it. I rocked James Brown last night at the grotto meeting. I
>> > even told him I was going to. I placed two decoy rocks and a well hidden
>> > rock in a pack he had left at our house. He probably found the decoys and
>> > didn't look hard enough to find the third one. Tee hee.
>> >
>> > Bill
>> >
>> >
>> > ---- mark gee <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> I to have been Stoned by Steele. I wander who holds the record for , most
>> >> people they have rocked. A story needs to be writen for the Caver. Bill ,
>> >> why dont you tell us of your rocky memories. Puns Excepted
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>> > To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected];
>> > [email protected]
>> > Cc: [email protected]
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:44:06 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
>> >
>> >
>> > He's not the only one who does this! I've been a victim as well, but
>> > since I collect rocks, it really wasn't a bad thing!
>> >
>> > julia
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: John P Brooks <[email protected]>
>> > To: Charles Goldsmith <[email protected]>; Frank Binney
>> > <[email protected]>; Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
>> > Cc: Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
>> > Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:39 pm
>> > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
>> >
>> >
>> > LOL......Lesson learned once again....NEVER LEAVE your back pack ALONE
>> > with Bill Steele for even a NANO-SECOND....or you WILL end up with a rock
>> > in your pack.
>> >
>> > Thats like one of the "TEN COMMANDMENTS of CAVING".... Thou shalt not
>> > trusteth thine pack to the Man O Steele...
>> >
>> > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Fritz Holt <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: Fritz Holt <[email protected]>
>> >>Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
>> >>To: "Charles Goldsmith" <[email protected]>, "Frank Binney"
>> >><[email protected]>
>> >>Cc: "Texas Cavers" <[email protected]>
>> >>Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:20 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Bill Steele has told similar stories and is famous for this. You were just
>> >>one of the "fortunate" recipients.
>> >>Fritz
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:34 AM
>> >>To: Frank Binney
>> >>Cc: Texas Cavers
>> >>Subject: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
>> >>
>> >>And how long have you known Bill? Caved with him?
>> >>
>> >>Really cool story about the Grand Canyon and your pack though.
>> >>
>> >>Charles
>> >>
>> >>On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Frank Binney<[email protected]>
>> >>wrote:
>> >>> On 7/29/09 8:46 PM, "Charles Goldsmith" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> So Frank, what's this I hear about you and your extra big backpack?
>> >>>>
>> >>> Actually I had two amazing backpack experiences at ICS:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1) Back in the early 1970s I visited a multiple entrance cave in the
>> >>> Grand Canyon. Technical climbing was required to reach the entrances,
>> >>> and wetsuits were required to negotiate the stream passage deeper
>> >>> inside the cave (which, by the way, had been mapped by Rune and other
>> >>> Texas cavers back in the 1960s).
>> >>> We entered by way of a dry upper entrance, where I stashed the
>> >>> brand-new expensive backpack I had used to transport the wetsuits,
>> >>> rope and climbing gear. Twelve hours later, exhausted from pushing
>> >>> tight leads deep in the cave, we decided to save time by rappelling
>> >>> down to the Colorado River by way of a lower, wet entrance. As dawn
>> >>> light began to illuminate the Grand Canyon, we pushed off down stream
>> >>> in our oar raft and it was shortly thereafter I realized my expensive
>> >>> new backpack remained in that upper entrance.
>> >>> Over the next 35 years, especially when I passed below those cave
>> >>> entrances on numerous Grand Canyon raft trips, I wondered what might
>> >>> have happened to that pack.
>> >>> So imagine my surprise at the ICS banquet when Bob and Debbie Buecher
>> >>> came over and asked if I was missing a backpack. A few years ago Bob
>> >>> was at that particular entrance and noticed a dusty pack stashed on a
>> >>> ledge. He's got it at his home in Tucson and plans to reunite me with it.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2) My other ICS amazing backpack story concerns the charity of my good
>> >>> "friend" Bill Steele. One day I loaded up my backpack with heavy books
>> >>> I planned to mail home (ICS proceedings, Derek Ford's Castleguard
>> >>> book, Bill's Huautla book, a coffee table-sized French caving diving
>> >>> book, the Vertical Bill Cuddington bio, etc.) Unfortunately, the
>> >>> campus mail center was closed when I arrived but Bill Steele
>> >>> graciously allowed me to stash the pack in his truck while he, Diana
>> >>> and I attended the photo salon.
>> >>> Later that night he was kind enough to hand deliver the pack to me in
>> >>> Groad Hollow. As I schlepped the pack across campus to my apartment, I
>> >>> remember thinking how smart I was to be mailing those books home--they
>> >>> weighed a ton and never would have passed airline weight limits.
>> >>> The never morning I struggled to get the heavy pack on my back and
>> >>> made the long walk the length of the campus from the Pecan Grove
>> >>> apartments to the registration building coffee shop. The mail center
>> >>> wasn't open so I carried the pack around most of the day,
>> >>> criss-crossing the campus numerous times for various sessions.
>> >>> Finally I made it to the mail center with the backpack, where upon
>> >>> transferring the contents into Priority Mail cartons I discovered a
>> >>> quite large, beautifully stream-sculpted, authentic Texas karst rock
>> >>> in the bottom of the pack. What a thoughtful gift--Thanks, Bill!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com/ To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> >>[email protected]
>> >>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> >>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nico said:
>>He's not the only pack rocker out there.
>But probably the most famous
Only in Texas. In TAG there are other prolific rockers, like Marion
Smith. Here's one story from Marion that rivals Bill's rocking of Frank
Binney at the ICS. Heather Levy went on a trip with Marion and others
that involved a hike along railroad tracks. At some point Marion managed
to slip two heavy pieces of iron into her pack. Soon after that trip
Heather moved from Tennessee to Virginia. She didn't discover Marion's
gift until she got out the pack for her first trip from her new home. An
inter-state rocking!
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I remember that, way to go Edwin.
Bill can you feel the love?
________________________________
From: Frank Binney <[email protected]>
To: Diana Tomchick <[email protected]>; Texas Cavers
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:31:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Weighting down Bill Steele's pack
Hmmmm....if the Terminal Siphons didn't already have prior use of the term,
I'd say these stories fall under the category of "Cavers Rocking Cavers".
Ka-thump!
Frank
On 7/31/09 1:09 PM, "Diana Tomchick" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> OK, so I'll add a story that's similar to Andy's...awhile back we had
> a DFW grotto trip into a water cave and Bill supplied a number of
> people with his famous red Whisk laundry detergent bottles as floats.
> The older cavers out there (that includes me) will remember those old
> laundry detergent bottles, they were approximately 4" thick and 8"
> wide and about 12" tall--just perfect to slide into your pack, and a
> carabiner will fit on the handle. About halfway into the trip we found
> a muddy side passage and Bill led a few cavers down the passage, but
> he left his pack behind. Edwin Lehr had finally found an opportunity
> to rock Bill's pack, but alas, there were no rocks to be found. So he
> decided to fill Bill's Whisk bottle with water, which really caused
> the whole pack to want to sink to the bottom of the passage. Bill
> would have spent the whole rest of the trip trying to figure out why
> his pack wouldn't float, but Edwin was new to the ways of rocking and
> he was so pleased with himself that 5 minutes after Bill started back
> upstream, Edwin asked him why his pack wasn't floating. That was
> enough to tip Bill off to the fact that Edwin was messing with him,
> and even Bill admitted that he wouldn't have realized the nature of
> the problem until he had left the cave if Edwin had just stayed quiet.
>
> Ask Bill sometime about how much his children like to rock him,
>
> Diana
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Associate Professor
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> Department of Biochemistry
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214B
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
> Email: [email protected]
> 214-645-6383 (phone)
> 214-645-6353 (fax)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I luv it!
________________________________
From: Andy Gluesenkamp <[email protected]>
To: texas cavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:22:31 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Bill Steele: hero or human tugboat?
This may not count as rocking per se:
I was on a trip with Bill Steele and others upstream from the natural
entrance in Honey Creek. He had a lanyard attached to his boogie board and the
end trailed behind him a few feet, just enough for me to grab ahold and catch a
free ride. He would fuss with his board and gear at which point I would let go
and swim a few strokes on my own just to keep up appearances. He finally
caught on to my parasitism but not before he towed me most of the way from
Whistler's Mother to the Q&A series. Sorry Bill, I guess I should watch my
pack from now on...
Andy
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
[email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now that all my ICS guests have left and life can get back to normal,
I've had time to reflect about the monumental task the caver community
has pulled off in staging the ICS. From the visitor's point of view,
things went rather smoothly and the event was well organized. Talking to
the main volunteers, one gets a different view: of wayward buses,
insufficient personnel, lack of sleep, and a certain amount of chaos.
The fact that the visitors did not sense most of this is a testament to
the volunteer's ability to solve the problems that arose.
George said it best: "Without the dedicated volunteers, an event like
the ICS would not be possible."
-Ernie Garza
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ernie's right; most of the ICS attendees were not aware of the backstage
dramas that occurred at the ICS. The organizers and volunteers can
rightfully be proud of that.
It would be interesting if a book were written about the real story of the
ICS: the years of dedication and effort, self sacrifice and
behind-the-scenes drama, financial fortunes waxing and waning, and the courage
and
vision of a few that drove the collective effort to its climactic conclusion.
Almost like a sequel to the Huautla book..... and the made-for-TV version
could star the movie actors from the Center of the Caving Universe. ;>)
Jerry.
In a message dated 8/1/2009 12:42:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Now that all my ICS guests have left and life can get back to normal,
I've had time to reflect about the monumental task the caver community
has pulled off in staging the ICS. From the visitor's point of view,
things went rather smoothly and the event was well organized. Talking to
the main volunteers, one gets a different view: of wayward buses,
insufficient personnel, lack of sleep, and a certain amount of chaos.
The fact that the visitors did not sense most of this is a testament to
the volunteer's ability to solve the problems that arose.
George said it best: "Without the dedicated volunteers, an event like
the ICS would not be possible."
-Ernie Garza
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
=JulystepsfooterNO115)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The August 2009 issue "Volume 24 # 8" of the Permian Basin Speleological
Society's "The Hole News" is now on the web in Adobe PDF format.
It can be found at the URL listed below:
http://www.caver.net/pbss/holenews/pbss8-09.pdf
And as always more exciting years of back issues can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.caver.net/pbss/holenews.html
Many thanks to Kel Thomas for being the editor of "The Hole News" Please be
sure to send him material!!!!!
Enjoy and Cave Safely,
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Regarding the latest Hole News photo credits:
Stephen Fleming tells me he did not take the picture of mirror Bilbo and me.
Not Kel's fault--I told him that.
I gave my camera to a South West Region _someone_ to take the picture; if
anyone knows who it was, or will admit to taking it, we will gladly give
credit.
Let me know... Jacqui
--- End Message ---
