texascavers Digest 8 May 2009 15:11:06 -0000 Issue 755
Topics (messages 10648 through 10665):
Re: Camino Columbia Toll Goes automated
10648 by: Aimee Beveridge
10649 by: Preston Forsythe
10650 by: Minton, Mark
10652 by: Diana Tomchick
10653 by: Minton, Mark
Mayan Glyphs, Bats and Barbara McCloud
10651 by: Preston Forsythe
Re: Chris Nicola and Priest's Grotto in Ukraine
10654 by: Minton, Mark
Re: HC & snakes
10655 by: Minton, Mark
Re: [iztaxochitla] Claude Chabert + (Francia)
10656 by: John Greer
Laser Scanners Go Where Lara Croft Cannot :
10657 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
Latest Caving Light
10658 by: Minton, Mark
Re: 15th ICS - Important Wednesday trips status
10659 by: Mixon Bill
10660 by: jranzau.gmail.com
10661 by: Stefan Creaser
"Grand, Gloomy and Peculiar"
10662 by: Preston Forsythe
Latest health risk in caving.
10663 by: stephengutting2.juno.com
rabies
10664 by: Mixon Bill
10665 by: John Brooks
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--- Begin Message ---
That's funny! I've heard that they come equiped with a "hippie detector".Now I
have evidence!Mark Minton wrote: I won't miss those semaforos since they were
obviously not really random like they were supposed to be. I've had the
light come on before I ever even pushed the button!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone been turned away at the border in recent years for "looks," long
hair or bo?
That was once common but if you were lucky a donation to the coffee fund, or to
buy Xmas gifts for the agent's kids, may have reduced the red tape.
Preston in KY where there are no borders
===============================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: Aimee Beveridge
To: [email protected] ; Minton, Mark
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Camino Columbia Toll Goes automated
That's funny! I've heard that they come equiped with a "hippie detector".Now I
have evidence!Mark Minton wrote: I won't miss those semaforos since they were
obviously not really random like they were supposed to be. I've had the
light come on before I ever even pushed the button!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aimee said:
>>I won't miss those semaforos since they were obviously not really random like
>>they were supposed to be. I've had the
light come on before I ever even pushed the button!
>I've heard that they come equiped with a "hippie detector".Now I have evidence!
Yeah, but I usually get the green light even with a truck full of gear,
so I don't think they're being discriminatory based on personal appearance. I
think someone inside the building decides whether they want to examine a
vehicle's cargo, and presets the light to show red or green.
Preston said:
>Has anyone been turned away at the border in recent years for "looks," long
>hair or bo?
I was certainly victim of that many years ago, but the last decade or so
has been very mellow. I haven't heard of any problems. There was some kind of
purge of border officials and ever since, they have been much younger (with
lots of women) and way more professional. Almost no one expects a tip or bribe
any more, and we do not give them. In fact when one has a problem, like
improper or expired papers or whatever, it is actually rather difficult to buy
your way out of the situation. The old system was a hassle, but it
occasionally worked in our favor by making it easy to bend the rules. Still, I
like the new professionalism much better.
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Steele and I flew into Zihuatenejo in early April. We tried to
use our "180 day" tourist visas that we purchased in December (on the
same trip as Mark) but they confiscated them and told us they were no
longer valid, since we had left Mexico. We had to buy new ones, and
return them at the airport when we left (or each pay a 500 peso fine).
I guess if you are driving back and forth across the border, they have
no good way to decide that you have left Mexico, so it's more
difficult for them to confiscate your tourist visa and force you to
buy a new one.
A little story about assistance at a border crossing from the
officials: a few years back the border crossings finally were not only
computerized, but they were all connected to the same database.
Eighteen months earlier, I was facing a dilemma: I had only a few days
in which to decide to trade in my old Toyota Tundra for a brand new
one (no money down, 0% interest as long as you chose a truck on the
lot), but my old one still had a window sticker. It's a very long
round-trip drive to the closest border crossing from Dallas, so I
thought I'd try to return the sticker at the Dallas Mexican consulate
(I had done this once before, so I thought, why not try?). No dice:
after much hassle, they finally told me, "you should have been here
last week, the official who is authorized to do this here has returned
to Mexico City." So I peeled the sticker off the window of the old
truck and decided to take my chances. I managed to pass into Mexico
four times with the new truck until the unreturned sticker finally
caught up with me on a spring 4-day weekend trip to Minas Viejas. What
to do? The people at the Laredo crossing brusquely told me, "you can't
bring your truck into our country." "Not ever?" I asked pleadingly,
but they waved me away. So we tried the Columbia crossing. Since there
were only a few customers there, the officials at the window were more
willing to help. I was told I could get a new sticker as long as I
could use a different form of ID--since I had used my passport to get
the unreturned sticker, if I used my birth certificate I could get a
new one. Alas, I had not brought a copy of my birth certificate, but
we were finally able (with much effort and many phone calls) to get
one sent from the county courthouse where I was born to the fax
machine at the border crossing (by way of several intermediate
locations). Since you are supposed to present a certified copy of your
birth certificate (and not a faxed copy, which typically has either a
header or footer with a time stamp from the fax machine) at the window
to get your vehicle papers, our official simply folded the fax so that
the header didn't show when copies were made. Voila, we were able to
get our papers and cross into Mexico! We thanked the woman profusely
and presented her with a sum of money that we told her was "for her
church," and she found that acceptable.
Since my passport was due for renewal in 8 months, when I returned
home I made sure that I applied for a new one. New passports are
issued with new passport numbers, and I am once again able to obtain
vehicle papers with my passport. But now I always carry a copy of my
birth certificate when I take my vehicle to Mexico, too.
Diana
On May 6, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Minton, Mark wrote:
Aimee said:
I won't miss those semaforos since they were obviously not really
random like they were supposed to be. I've had the
light come on before I ever even pushed the button!
I've heard that they come equiped with a "hippie detector".Now I
have evidence!
Yeah, but I usually get the green light even with a truck full
of gear, so I don't think they're being discriminatory based on
personal appearance. I think someone inside the building decides
whether they want to examine a vehicle's cargo, and presets the
light to show red or green.
Preston said:
Has anyone been turned away at the border in recent years for
"looks," long hair or bo?
I was certainly victim of that many years ago, but the last
decade or so has been very mellow. I haven't heard of any
problems. There was some kind of purge of border officials and ever
since, they have been much younger (with lots of women) and way more
professional. Almost no one expects a tip or bribe any more, and we
do not give them. In fact when one has a problem, like improper or
expired papers or whatever, it is actually rather difficult to buy
your way out of the situation. The old system was a hassle, but it
occasionally worked in our favor by making it easy to bend the
rules. Still, I like the new professionalism much better.
Mark Minton
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: [email protected]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Diana said:
>I was told I could get a new sticker as long as I could use a different form
>of ID--since I had used my passport to get the unreturned sticker, if I used
>my birth certificate I could get a new one.
I have done that in the past as well, but when I attempted it in March on
the way to J2, it didn't work. They now seem to have vehicles listed by VIN
number rather than the type of ID the owner uses, which makes a lot more sense.
Unfortunately, that meant there was no way I was going to be able to get car
papers for a different vehicle since I had an old, unreturned one. We solved
the problem by signing the vehicle over to another person with no outstanding
vehicle permits. That works, and was even suggested by the aduana agent. No
tip was solicited and none was offered.
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We watched an educational TV show last night on "Decoding the Mayan Glyphs."
The show mentioned Constantine Rafinesque, a famous weird guy and
naturalist from the early 1800's-who the Big Ear Rafinesque bat was named
for. Recently at Mammoth Cave we helped Roy Powers and Jerry Fant construct
a couch size steel gate over a small cave in the park to protect the
Rafinesque Bats. I found out watching the show that Mr. Rafinesque was the
first one to figure out the Mayan numbering system! You know the dots and
bar system that even I can use to count to 10. Also, on the show was Barbara
McCloud who wrote the best caving songs.
John Prine may have said to throw away your TV, but some TV is very worth
watching.
Preston in Outer Browder
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you looked at the Priest's Grotto information Bill Steele posted you
may have seen this statement on the National Geographic Adventure site
<http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0406/excerpt4.html>:
>At 77 miles (124 kilometers), Priest's Grotto is the second longest of the
>Gypsum Giants and currently ranks as the tenth longest cave in the world.
Since I pay attention to the world's deepest and longest caves, I wondered why
I had never heard of this cave. Chris Nicola confirmed that it is in fact the
same as Ozernaja, currently the 13th longest in the world on Bob Gulden's list
<http://www.caverbob.com/wlong.htm>. (The above quote is from 2004.)
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kurt said:
>A year or two later a few of us hiked and fished from the cave entrance to the
>Guadalupe river and back. We found about a dozen decapitated cottonmouth
>snakes.
Back in the '80s we were also working on Preserve Cave much further down
Honey Creek toward the river. On one trip there we saw a large cottonmouth in
a pool in the creek near that cave entrance. We just watched and left it alone.
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those who didn't see this --
----- Original Message -----
From: La Rouille
To: Iztaxochitla Foro
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [iztaxochitla] Claude Chabert + (Francia)
Claude Chabert nos dejó antier, lunes 4 de mayo, a las 17:30.
Para todos - incluso para él, sin duda - fue un alivio. Desde hace cinco
años - tal vez más - él sufría los ataques de esta espantosa enfermedad de
Alzheimer. Nacido en 1939, él no conocería la jubilación agradable para la
que se había preparado. Al principio, se beneficiaba de periodos de
remisión, después, su estado se agravó inexorablemente. Retirado en casa de
su esposa, en el departamento del 'Yonne, debió ser hospitalizado durante
los últimos meses, en una casa de retiro especializada.
Este profesor de filosofía llegó a ser políglota gracias a sus viajes. Y
viajó principalmente para hacer espeleología: Turquía, Afganistán, India,
Líbano, Indonesia, Borneo, México, Brasil... Personalmente yo lo oí sostener
una conversación en turco y uno de los últimos contactos que tuve con él fue
durante una cena en su domicilio parisino, en compañía de una joven pareja
de espeleólogos brasileños. La conversación se efectuó casi exclusivamente
en portugués y yo imagino que él fue brillante. Jasmine y yo nos sentimos un
poco excluidos... De vez en cuando, Claude, Nicki o uno de los jóvenes
espeleólogos traducía gentilmente. La enfermedad ya se había instalado; esto
ocurrió durante un periodo de remisión; nosotros lo ignorábamos...
Presente en el Spéléo-club de Paris desde 1961, presidente de 1975 a 1980,
el detenía el récord de publicaciones de nuestra revista «Grottes &
Gouffres» [Grutas y Abismos]. Él publicó igualmente sobre la Yonne y la
Nièvre. Su «Atlas des grandes cavités mondiales», escrito en colaboración
con Paul Courbon, fue una de las raras publicaciones espeleológicas
francesas traducidas tal cual en inglés. Su última obra, «Atlas du Janelão»,
es un libro de arte un poco extravagante, último testimonio de su última
pasión por el karst brasileño.
Por lo tanto, un excepcional espeleólogo de exploración y de estudio,
duplicado de un intelectual de afirmaciones un tanto perentorias - tales
como lo son a menudo en los individuos de carácter.
Los funerales serán civiles y celebradas en la intimidad. Si deseas enviar
un testimonio de simpatía a Nicky, los datos son:
Nicky CHABERT
12 rue Carnot
89310 Nitry
Francia
Esperando que su exploración en el más allá le inspire un bello atlas...
Spélaïon
Spéléo-club de Paris
.
__,_._,___
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Laser Scanners Go Where Lara Croft Cannot
_Mike Grace_
(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/view/The_root_of_all_evil) posted on
5 May 2009 14:35
(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/tag/tomb+raider)
A team of 10 Austrian and Italian archaeologists, architects and computer
scientists have used laser scanners to precisely map the cavern of Saint
Domitilla. Situated just outside the Italian capital, the catacombs date back
to the second century, and stretch for more than fifteen kilometers, over
many levels.
Unfortunately, given the safety problems, the public is only allowed 500
meters in, making the images of the underground tunnels the only way us
normal folks can traverse them.
The caverns were scanned by a setup consisting of a laser scanner hooked up
with a camera. While the scanner slowly rotates, creating a "point cloud"
of all the details, the camera follows taking shots of the surfaces. The
color between the laser points is then extracted by computer and the
resultant image produces a fully detailed 3D map, including paintings that
haven't
been seen for nearly 2,000 years.
"It is not a virtual image, it is not animation - what you are seeing is
real data," says Dr. Norbert Zimmerman of the Vienna Academy of Sciences.
"Its moving, 3D flexibility gives you the chance to compare areas, to
assess the ways the catacombs were developed over time, to analyze how and why
those who built them did what they did," he adds. "That's never been
possible before."
It's still slow work though. The scan of the Saint Domitilla cavern took
three whole years, and there are still more than 40 more, stretching 170
kilometers.
It's doubtful that Ms. Croft will be running through any of these tombs
soon though - the Saint Domitilla team failed to turn up a single mystical
artifact during their explorations.
_http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/91454-Laser-Scanners-Go-Where-Lar
a-Croft-Cannot_
(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/91454-Laser-Scanners-Go-Where-Lara-Croft-Cannot)
**************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now.
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those interested in the latest high-tech caving lights, there is a
new European LED lamp that looks similar to the upgraded Sten. It is
surprisingly inexpensive compared to similar lamps on the market. Not many
details yet as it has not actually been offered for sale. It looks like it was
designed specifically to be compatible with those throwbacks still using a
ceiling burner (more common in Europe since they have more need to stay warm).
<http://ledlampe.spelemat.com/>
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forwarded by Mixon. I assume WNS had nothing to do with cancelling the
shopping-center trips, but rather lack of interest.
Begin forwarded message:
From: ICS 2009 eList <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: May 6, 2009 9:00:18 PM CDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: 15th ICS - Important Wednesday trips status
Dear Friends,
Last month I sadly announced that White Nose Syndrome, which has
recently killed about half million bats in the U.S., has forced the
organizers of the 15th International Congress of Speleology (ICS) to
reevaluate its field trips. It is important that we do not
accidentally spread this problem farther and into other countries.
With this message I will update you on the Wednesday trips. I am happy
to report we have not cancelled any Wednesday trips other than
reported earlier.
The following trips are cancelled:
Wednesday trip WD-108: Land and Bat Habitat Restoration
Wednesday trip WD-110: Powell’s Cave
Wednesday trip WD-120: Fredericksburg, Peaches, and History
Wednesday trip WD-122: River Walk and Shopping in San Antonio
Wednesday trip WD-123: San Marcos Prime Shopping Center
Wednesday trip WD-124: Schlitterbahn Waterpark resort
Wednesday trip WD-126: YO Ranch
The following trips are guaranteed to occur and there is room on most
for you to continue to register:
WD-101: Bats, Bridges, and Cave Preserves
WD-102: Birds, Rivers, and Bats
WD-103: Canoeing, Kayaking, and Tubing the Guadalupe River
WD-104: Challenges in Urban Cave Management
WD-105: Endangered Species/Endangered Caves
WD-106: Karst Hydrogeology of the Edwards Aquifer
WD-107: Kickapoo Cavern and the Devil’s Sinkhole (filled)
WD-109: Paleontology of Caves of the Edwards Plateau
WD-111: Granitic Pseudokarst of Enchanted Rock State Natural Area
WD-112: Recharge and Discharge Features of the Edwards and Trinity
Aquifers
WD-113: Rock art at Seminole Canyon State Park
WD-121: Historic Spanish Missions trail
WD-125: Sea World San Antonio
I will soon send news on the final status of the pre-ICS and post-ICS
trips.
We look forward to seeing you soon in Kerrville,
George
George Veni, Ph.D.
Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology
Adjunct Secretary, International Union of Speleology
Executive Director, U.S. National Cave and Karst Research Institute
----
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ICS eList. To unsubscribe, please visit:
http://ics2009mail.nfshost.com/pommo/user/
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hmm... There are a surprisingly large number of bats that live along the
riverwalk. Several of the building have architectural features that they
seem to fine appealing. But I suspect that this isn't the reason. Although,
maybe Schlitterbahn is canceled because of the new amphibian disease that
is starting to spread...
On May 7, 2009 11:30am, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
Forwarded by Mixon. I assume WNS had nothing to do with cancelling the
shopping-center trips, but rather lack of interest.
Begin forwarded message:
From: ICS 2009 eList [email protected]>
Date: May 6, 2009 9:00:18 PM CDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: 15th ICS - Important Wednesday trips status
Dear Friends,
Last month I sadly announced that White Nose Syndrome, which has recently
killed about half million bats in the US, has forced the organizers of
the 15th International Congress of Speleology (ICS) to reevaluate its
field trips. It is important that we do not accidentally spread this
problem farther and into other countries. With this message I will update
you on the Wednesday trips. I am happy to report we have not cancelled
any Wednesday trips other than reported earlier.
The following trips are cancelled:
Wednesday trip WD-108: Land and Bat Habitat Restoration
Wednesday trip WD-110: Powell's Cave
Wednesday trip WD-120: Fredericksburg, Peaches, and History
Wednesday trip WD-122: River Walk and Shopping in San Antonio
Wednesday trip WD-123: San Marcos Prime Shopping Center
Wednesday trip WD-124: Schlitterbahn Waterpark resort
Wednesday trip WD-126: YO Ranch
The following trips are guaranteed to occur and there is room on most for
you to continue to register:
WD-101: Bats, Bridges, and Cave Preserves
WD-102: Birds, Rivers, and Bats
WD-103: Canoeing, Kayaking, and Tubing the Guadalupe River
WD-104: Challenges in Urban Cave Management
WD-105: Endangered Species/Endangered Caves
WD-106: Karst Hydrogeology of the Edwards Aquifer
WD-107: Kickapoo Cavern and the Devil's Sinkhole (filled)
WD-109: Paleontology of Caves of the Edwards Plateau
WD-111: Granitic Pseudokarst of Enchanted Rock State Natural Area
WD-112: Recharge and Discharge Features of the Edwards and Trinity
Aquifers
WD-113: Rock art at Seminole Canyon State Park
WD-121: Historic Spanish Missions trail
WD-125: Sea World San Antonio
I will soon send news on the final status of the pre-ICS and post-ICS
trips.
We look forward to seeing you soon in Kerrville,
George
George Veni, Ph.D.
Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology
Adjunct Secretary, International Union of Speleology
Executive Director, US National Cave and Karst Research Institute
----
You have received this message because you are subscribed to the 2009 ICS
eList. To unsubscribe, please visit:
http://ics2009mail.nfshost.com/pommo/user/
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---
Nah, all the amphibians were consumed in the beer we had at TSA Spring
Convention - Blind Salamander Beer, wasn't it?
Stefan
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: 15th ICS - Important Wednesday trips
status
hmm... There are a surprisingly large number of bats that live along the
riverwalk. Several of the building have architectural features that they
seem to fine appealing. But I suspect that this isn't the reason.
Although, maybe Schlitterbahn is canceled because of the new amphibian
disease that is starting to spread...
On May 7, 2009 11:30am, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Forwarded by Mixon. I assume WNS had nothing to do with cancelling the
shopping-center trips, but rather lack of interest.
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
--
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
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please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
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--- Begin Message ---
Roger Brucker's new book on Stephen Bishop will be published by Cave Books
Oct 1st, 2009. We have all been waiting for this.
From Mammoth Cave Area My Family.com, an invitational only web site for
anyone interested in the history of Mammoth Cave and the people who lived in
the area before becoming a national park in 1941.
Cavingly,
Preston in Outer Browder, KY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090504-rabies-evolution.html
____________________________________________________________
Click now and enjoy a fantastic vacation in the wine country.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsGAFI0Xp9sHsOeZsQqIcFZNllguDIMqHz9clgzf2IMSkYpt9EA2oY/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"If untreated, though, rabies, which attacks the central nervous
system, is often fatal in humans." That's a spectacular
understatement. -- Mixon
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the word "often" should be deleted from that sentence.
When I started caving way back when at A&M.....many Cavers got the rabies
vaccine that was given to Vet students as a precaution....at the time I thought
that was a bit ridiculous. But several years ago....I was in a situation where
I was or could have been exposed to rabies...we didn't know for sure....but the
circumstances made my doctor and Texas health folks very nervous.
Anyway....they strongly encouraged me to take the post exposure vaccine as a
precaution.....and let me tell you....it is every bit as bad or worse than they
say....one is pretty much feeling bad from it for the six months it takes to go
through all of the shots....and it takes another few months.... To start
feeling better....so you are pretty much sick for about a year.
Anyway....the Texas department of health encourages people who engage in
activities where they might be exposed to get the pre-exposure
vaccine.....Cavers are on their list....and from what I understand the
pre-exposure vaccine is much less "bad" for you....
Sent from my iPhone
On May 8, 2009, at 9:39 AM, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
"If untreated, though, rabies, which attacks the central nervous system, is
often fatal in humans." That's a spectacular understatement. -- Mixon
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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