texascavers Digest 28 May 2009 17:30:35 -0000 Issue 764
Topics (messages 10766 through 10780):
Re: Psychics of the underground visit Longhorn Cavern :
10766 by: Scott Boyd
10767 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
new LED flashlights
10768 by: David
Galveston caver article ?
10769 by: David
10775 by: Jared F
10776 by: Nico Escamilla
New Method for Dating Rock Art
10770 by: Minton, Mark
dating pictographs
10771 by: Mixon Bill
10773 by: Diana Tomchick
10774 by: Allan Cobb
10777 by: Louise Power
10778 by: Allan Cobb
J2 expedition - party!
10772 by: David Ochel
another new LED flashlight
10779 by: David
ICS registration
10780 by: Mixon Bill
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--- Begin Message ---
Wasn't there some caver volunteer work being done at Longhorn at the same time
as this "investigation" was taking place? We all know about cavers and their
(liquid) spirits! Shame on you cavers for getting these investigators all
excited with your "instances of moving light phenomena". Did y'all use LEDs or
carbide?
Check out Cavespider's Caving Links at: http://www.texascaving.org/cavespider/
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Update: Austin Paranormal releases results of latest investigation at Longhorn
Cavern
May 23, 3:17 PM ·
Austin Paranormal Group, led by founder/president Amanda Foster, recently
released the results of its third investigation of Longhorn Cavern near Austin,
TX. According to Ms. Foster, “Our latest investigation was not quite as active
as the first two, but it was fascinating nonetheless. As paranormal
investigators, we accept the fact that there will be more activity at
particular times than at others.”
For the first time, Austin Paranormal “went dark” during this third
investigation. The first two investigations had been conducted under lighted
conditions, since phenomena has frequently been reported in full daylight or
when electricity was being used. Their efforts were rewarded when they cap
tured some excellent audio evidence, including responses to questions and an
entity apparently commenting “they’re back” when the group returned from a
break. Whoever is present in the caves seems to be able to recognize the
members of this group and comment on their activities. Ms. Foster reports that
one of the group’s goals is to identify the spirits inhabiting the caves and
their historical research in this area remains ongoing.
Personal experiences from the third investigation included two separate
instances of moving light phenomena. Unfortunately, it was not captured on
video. Investigators also reported the sound of “scratching” on the walls,
running footsteps, muted conversations, and a type of “roar” that was captured
on one of the recorders. As always, Austin Paranormal attempted to find “non
paranormal” explanations for all of these events and only included them in the
official case record as “possibly paranormal” after thorough investigation of
alternative causes. Austin Paranormal Group is planning additional
investigations at Longhorn Cavern, which has proven to be a very haunted
location. Its rich history and active inhabitants should continue to20result in
impressive evidence for some time to come.
To schedule your own “Paranormal Tour” or other types of cave adventures
offered by Longhorn Cavern State Park, click on this link:
http://www.longhorncaverns.com/special_cave_tours.html.
http://www.examiner.com/x-1001-Ghost-Hunting-Examiner~y2009m5d23-Update--Austin-Paranormal-releases-results-of-latest-investigation-at-Longhorn-Cavern
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, Scott, we've had several volunteer work weekends down there, in
anticipation and preparation for ICS.
Unfortunately, we didn't see anything and no paranormals incidents to report.
We did experience several reports of strange and unusual sounds and singing,
mainly from the female members of the Aggie (A.S.S.) contingent, and other
sounds and odors, mainly from the male members of the Aggie (A.S.S.)
contingent! 8^)>
Just kidding on the latter! They were great and helped us accomplish a lot of
work and move a lot of dirt!
Also, the "liquids" were confined to the surface and observation tower and LED.
Mark
________________________________
From: Scott Boyd [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tue 5/26/2009 12:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Psychics of the underground visit Longhorn Cavern :
Wasn't there some caver volunteer work being done at Longhorn at the same time
as this "investigation" was taking place? We all know about cavers and their
(liquid) spirits! Shame on you cavers for getting these investigators all
excited with your "instances of moving light phenomena". Did y'all use LEDs or
carbide?
Check out Cavespider's Caving Links at: http://www.texascaving.org/cavespider/
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Update: Austin Paranormal releases results of latest investigation at
Longhorn Cavern
<http://www.examiner.com/x-1001-Ghost-Hunting-Examiner>
May 23, 3:17 PM ·
Austin Paranormal Group <http://www.austinparanormal.com/> , led by
founder/president Amanda Foster, recently released the results of its third
investigation of Longhorn Cavern near Austin, TX. According to Ms. Foster, "Our
latest investigation was not quite as active as the first two, but it was
fascinating nonetheless. As paranormal investigators, we accept the fact that
there will be more activity at particular times than at others."
For the first time, Austin Paranormal "went dark" during this third
investigation. The first two investigations had been conducted under lighted
conditions, since phenomena has frequently been reported in full daylight or
when electricity was being used. Their efforts were rewarded when they cap
tured some excellent audio evidence
<http://www.austinparanormal.com/Investigations02.html> , including responses
to questions and an entity apparently commenting "they're back" when the group
returned from a break. Whoever is present in the caves seems to be able to
recognize the members of this group and comment on their activities. Ms.
Foster reports that one of the group's goals is to identify the spirits
inhabiting the caves and their historical research in this area remains
ongoing.
Personal experiences from the third investigation included two separate
instances of moving light phenomena. Unfortunately, it was not captured on
video. Investigators also reported the sound of "scratching" on the walls,
running footsteps, muted conversations, and a type of "roar" that was captured
on one of the recorders. As always, Austin Paranormal attempted to find "non
paranormal" explanations for all of these events and only included them in the
official case record as "possibly paranormal" after thorough investigation of
alternative causes. Austin Paranormal Group is planning additional
investigations at Longhorn Cavern, which has proven to be a very haunted
location. Its rich history and active inhabitants should continue to20result in
impressive evidence for some time to come.
To schedule your own "Paranormal Tour" or other types of cave
adventures offered by Longhorn Cavern State Park, click on this link:
http://www.longhorncaverns.com/special_cave_tours.html
<http://www.longhorncaverns.com/special_cave_tours.html> .
http://www.examiner.com/x-1001-Ghost-Hunting-Examiner~y2009m5d23-Update--Austin-Paranormal-releases-results-of-latest-investigation-at-Longhorn-Cavern
<http://www.examiner.com/x-1001-Ghost-Hunting-Examiner%7Ey2009m5d23-Update--Austin-Paranormal-releases-results-of-latest-investigation-at-Longhorn-Cavern>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are some new LED flashlights on the market, by a company called
"Browning."
This one really caught my eye and I hope to test it soon:
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/lights/detail.asp?value=022H&cat_id=371&type_id=1236
Here is one that uses a single AAA battery:
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/lights/detail.asp?value=022H&cat_id=371&type_id=2114
That would take up very little space in your cave pack or could be
duct-taped to your helmet and
used for an emergency light. ( In my opinion, with lights as small as
this, the rule of having
3 sources of lights should be changed to having 5 sources of light. There is
simply no excuse
now to run low of light while caving, and especially since LED's have proven
to be highly reliable. )
Here is a small flashlight with a boost button that can be temporarily used
to light up a borehole
passage:
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/lights/detail.asp?value=022H&cat_id=371&type_id=3113
Here is small one that fits in your shirt pocket, yet puts out 200 lumens of
light.
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/lights/detail.asp?value=022H&cat_id=371&type_id=1235
These are found at Gander Mountain store.
I am still hoping that a headlamp manufacturer will start incorporating some
of these features
in their headlamps. So far, Stenlight, seems to be the only one. In
the meantime, the least
expensive alternative is to mount these flashlights to both sides of your
helmet.
I have owned at least 10 Browning flashlights, and they all worked well. I
just don't like that most of
them incorporate a blue or green LED auxiliary light. I think a white
light would be more practical.
I will have some for sale at my next yard sale.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to this article, it appears cavers from Galveston
may be in the Florida panhandle working on a cave:
http://www.wtvynews4.com/news/headlines/46010322.html
The article indicates:
More than a dozen Texas A&M Marine Biology students are
spending the week at Morrison Springs in Walton County.
The park is known
for its unique underground cave formations.
County Commissioner Scott Brannon helped acquire state
grant monies for a million dollar upgrade. Local officials say this
facility goes a long way in eco-tourism.
Morrison Springs is several miles south of Ponce de Leon.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Every year during this time.. Dr. Iliffe takes a group of students on a
scientific diving course. During the course students spend a week diving in the
gulf and a week learning to cavern dive in the florida springs.
I took the course a few years back and we dove morrison spring.
I am assuming that is what this article is referring to.. but its no very
detailed so i could be wrong
cheers,
Jared
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, David <[email protected]> wrote:
From: David <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Galveston caver article ?
To: [email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 3:58 PM
According to this article, it appears cavers from Galveston
may be in the Florida panhandle working on a cave:
http://www.wtvynews4.com/news/headlines/46010322.html
The article indicates:
More than a dozen Texas A&M Marine Biology students are
spending the week at Morrison Springs in Walton County.
The park is known
for its unique underground cave formations.
County Commissioner Scott Brannon helped acquire state
grant monies for a million dollar upgrade. Local officials say this
facility goes a long way in eco-tourism.
Morrison Springs is several miles south of Ponce de Leon.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to a friend at TAMUG this in fact is Dr Iliffe's scientific diving
class
Nico
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Jared F <[email protected]> wrote:
> Every year during this time.. Dr. Iliffe takes a group of students on a
> scientific diving course. During the course students spend a week diving in
> the gulf and a week learning to cavern dive in the florida springs.
> I took the course a few years back and we dove morrison spring.
>
> I am assuming that is what this article is referring to.. but its no very
> detailed so i could be wrong
>
>
> cheers,
>
> Jared
>
> --- On *Tue, 5/26/09, David <[email protected]>* wrote:
>
>
> From: David <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Texascavers] Galveston caver article ?
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 3:58 PM
>
>
> According to this article, it appears cavers from Galveston
> may be in the Florida panhandle working on a cave:
>
> http://www.wtvynews4.com/news/headlines/46010322.html
>
>
> The article indicates:
>
>
> More than a dozen Texas A&M Marine Biology students are
> spending the week at Morrison Springs in Walton County.
>
> The park is known
> for its unique underground cave formations.
>
> County Commissioner Scott Brannon helped acquire state
> grant monies for a million dollar upgrade. Local officials say this
> facility goes a long way in eco-tourism.
>
> Morrison Springs is several miles south of Ponce de Leon.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> [email protected]<http://mc/[email protected]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> [email protected]<http://mc/[email protected]>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
New research has made it possible to more accurately date rock art. See
<http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news-accelerator-mass-spectrometry-cave-paintings-031809.aspx?xmlmenuid=51>.
The original paper is freely downloadable at
<http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ac802555g>.
Mark Minton
New Technology For Dating Ancient Rock Paintings
March 18, 2009
A new dating method finally is allowing archaeologists to incorporate rock
paintings - some of the most mysterious and personalized remnants of ancient
cultures - into the tapestry of evidence used to study life in prehistoric
times.
In the study <http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ac802555g>, Marvin W. Rowe points out that rock paintings, or pictographs, are among the most difficult archaeological artifacts to date. They lack the high levels of organic material needed to assess a pictograph's age using radiocarbon dating, the standard archaeological technique for more than a half-century.
Rowe describes a new, highly sensitive dating method, called accelerator mass spectrometry, that requires only 0.05 milligrams of carbon (the weight of 50 specks of dust). That's much less than the several grams of carbon needed with radiocarbon dating.
The research included analyzing pictographs from numerous countries over a span
of 15 years. It validates the method and allows rock painting to join bones,
pottery and other artifacts that tell secrets of ancient societies, Rowe says.
"Because of the prior lack of methods for dating rock art, archaeologists had almost
completely ignored it before the 1990s," he explains. "But with the ability to obtain
reliable radiocarbon dates on pictographs, archaeologists have now begun to incorporate rock art
into a broader study that includes other cultural remains."
Source: American Chemical Society
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That news release posted by Mark Minton about dating pictographs is
misleading. The technique it brags about, accelerator mass
spectrometry, is not new. This sort of nonsense is, unfortunately,
typical of the stuff put out by universities' publicity hacks. What
may be new is the sample-preparation technique that the author of the
article uses to get the carbon for AMS without including any old
carbon from the limestone on which the pictographs were drawn. The
article is interesting, and the author is from Texas A&M. Many of his
examples are from Texas. -- Mixon
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 27, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Mixon Bill wrote:
That news release posted by Mark Minton about dating pictographs is
misleading. The technique it brags about, accelerator mass
spectrometry, is not new. This sort of nonsense is, unfortunately,
typical of the stuff put out by universities' publicity hacks. What
may be new is the sample-preparation technique that the author of
the article uses to get the carbon for AMS without including any old
carbon from the limestone on which the pictographs were drawn.
Bill,
That web site was not a university web site but a lab equipment supply
site, and they cite their source as the American Chemical Society web
site (which publishes the journal "Analytical Chemistry"). This seems
more like an attempt to spice up the lab supply web site by the
company publicity hacks rather than some university publicity-inspired
nonsense.
The author was not claiming that the accelerator mass spectrometry
technique is new, quite the contrary, there are references in the
paper to this technique that date from 1977 (more than 30 years
ago!).What was the purpose of this Feature article in the journal
"Analytical Chemistry"? This journal is aimed at people who do basic
research in the field of analytical chemistry, which includes people
who build new analytical instruments. Marvin Rowe was invited by the
journal editors to write a review article about applied analytical
chemistry research that primarily gets published in archaeological
journals. The typical readership of "Analytical Chemistry" would not
be familiar with this literature.
Marvin Rowe even states that he has been collecting this data for 15
years (one of his references to his own work dates to 1994), and he
thanks the many people who have helped him, including some folks that
many Texas cavers may know (Allan Cobb & James Brady).
Professor Rowe seems like an interesting potential speaker for next
year's TSA Spring Convention.
Diana
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: [email protected]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I have worked with Marvin Rowe and even published some papers with him.
I have also collected rock art samples for dating by him. He is a fun
person in the field. I just saw him back in April at the Society of
American Archeologists Conference in Atlanta. Marvin actually got into
dating by working on methods for dating meteorites to determine the age of
the solar system.
Here is the short version of how rock art is dated. In dating rock art, the
basic approach is to date the organic binder used in the rock art pigment.
In the case of rock art done with charcoal, the charcoal be used for dating.
With either type of sample, the pigment is washed with acid to remove
inorganic carbon from either the pigment or the rock surface that
contaminates the sample. Then the cleaned up sample is "burned" in an argon
plasma flame and the organic carbon from the organic material is deposited
and collected. It is this organic carbon that is then sent off for AMS
dating.
Allan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some questions, Allan,
How much material are we talking about removing from the rock art sample?
How much damage does this do to the rock art?
Are the samples removed from relatively inconspicuous areas or where?
I guess I'm not understanding how you can take samples without damaging the
artwork.
Louise
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 13:52:21 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] dating pictographs
>
>
> Yes, I have worked with Marvin Rowe and even published some papers with him.
> I have also collected rock art samples for dating by him. He is a fun
> person in the field. I just saw him back in April at the Society of
> American Archeologists Conference in Atlanta. Marvin actually got into
> dating by working on methods for dating meteorites to determine the age of
> the solar system.
>
> Here is the short version of how rock art is dated. In dating rock art, the
> basic approach is to date the organic binder used in the rock art pigment.
> In the case of rock art done with charcoal, the charcoal be used for dating.
> With either type of sample, the pigment is washed with acid to remove
> inorganic carbon from either the pigment or the rock surface that
> contaminates the sample. Then the cleaned up sample is "burned" in an argon
> plasma flame and the organic carbon from the organic material is deposited
> and collected. It is this organic carbon that is then sent off for AMS
> dating.
>
> Allan
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The downside to the sampling is that it is a destructive method. Taking the
samples is rather tedious because the preferred method is to look for flakes of
pigment that are about to fall off. You then pluck these off with fine pointed
tweezers. You also try to sample from all over the same piece of rock art
rather than concentrating on one spot. Before and after pictures are taken and
it is often impossible to tell that the rock art was sampled. The sample size
is measured in milligrams.
One of the easiest samplings that I did was on some rock art from a cave called
Naj Tunich in Guatemala. The rock art was actually an inscription panel that
was vandalized and badly smeared. That rock art was a prime candidate because
it was vandalized and because the inscription recorded the date of a Maya ruler
visiting the cave. We knew the exact date of the inscription so it was a good
test for validating the method.
The decision on sampling rock art is not taken lightly. The rock art must have
some really good reason for being sampled and it must have a good potential for
providing new information. This sampling is not widely done on rock art.
Allan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
The 2009 J2 expedition has come to an end, and the remainder of the
de-rigging team is en route to Austin.
To celebrate the success of the expedition, there will be a party at the
Robot Ranch:
*** this Saturday (May 30), 6 pm ´til whenever ***
Beer and BBQ will be supplied. Bring a side dish, desert, or snack.
Breakfast will be provided to those who stay.
3511 Caldwell Lane
Del Valle, TX 78617
Phone: 512-247-6385
Feel free to forward this email to folks not subscribed to cavetex...
Cheers,
David (and Bill, James, José, Nikki and Vickie)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a new flashlight that appears promising:
The "Rogue 2."
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/theshorelinemarket_2053_164861602
It comes in a bright lime-green color as shown, which would make it
easy to locate if you dropped it on a dark surface.
It claims to put out 100 lumens and has
one dim setting that is only 10 percent of full-power, so you can
save your batteries. I don't know any other flashlight that dims it that low.
( I would prefer 2 or 3 more dim settings, but going down to 10 lumens is more
practical than dimming to 50 lumens like a few others do. )
It uses AA batteries, which most cavers prefer. Similar lights like
the Inova do not dim or use AA batteries, so the Rogue 2 is probably
more practical for caving than the Inova tactical flashlights.
The price is $ 50 which is about average for this kind of light.
I think this shows that lights of this quality will soon be at mainstream
department stores for $ 30, meaning they will be easier for cavers
to get, especially newbies.
I haven't tested it yet, but it looks rugged and water-resistant.
A flashlight like this could be mounted to the side of the helmet, and
should be suitable for big wet caving passages.
There is also a "Rogue 1" model, which uses just 1 AA battery and
is not as bright.
Sold at a store in Houston called MicroCenter.
David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County, Texas
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a reminder that the registration fee for the International
Congress of Speleology will go up by $25 on June 1. Register online
now at https://secure.concentric.com/ics2009.us/register/. Note that
there is a separate charge for camping, and also that you can save $30
by opting not to receive the proceedings volume. (You can save even
more by opting to also not receive the "guidebook," but I think that
is going to be a nice overview of the caves of North America. Should
be worth reading.)
Be there or be square. -- Mixon
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
