texascavers Digest 7 Jun 2009 00:53:29 -0000 Issue 771 Topics (messages 10856 through 10864):
non-bat caves
10856 by: David
Reflecting on the 94 Convention
10857 by: David
10863 by: kego3.sbcglobal.net
Re: Texas Considering Closing Caves for WNS
10858 by: mlmiller.gvtc.com
10860 by: George Veni
10862 by: S S
10864 by: George Veni
Stepen Alvarez video
10859 by: mlmiller.gvtc.com
Re: 15th ICS - registration and transportation deadlines
10861 by: Mixon Bill
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--- Begin Message ---I was just thinking of some caves I have been to that usually don't have many bats. Big Tree Cave ( Langtry Lead Cave ) Langtry Quarry Cave Sally Cave ( Del Rio ) However, I don't like to go to these in the summer time and they are a good drive from Kerrville. Is anybody going off-trail in Cascade Caverns? I am under the impression that off-trail trips are not happening at InnerSpace, Caverns of Sonora, but what about Wonder Cave or does it even have an off-trail passage worth visiting ? On a tourist note, Aquarena Springs is closed now. Right ? David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County
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--- Begin Message ---I was just thinking about the 94 convention in Texas, and how much things have changed. This will be the first convention where Netbooks will be popular. I imagine cavers will have a lot more gadgets than they did in 94. Smartphones, walkie-talkie phones, etc. Wi-Fi laptops have been very common at the last 2 conventions. Also, will there be in 35 mm photos or slides at this convention? Last year there were not any entries were there? It is all digital now. And then there is the hi-def video camcorder. And of course, carbide is dead, and maybe even cyalume sticks. And we have the new retail Energizer LED headlamp. And we have all lost quiet a few caving friends since 94. One of the emotional parts of the convention is the banquet toast to long lost caving friends. I recommend you be there for that if you have lost a caving friend. I imagine there will be a few hybrid cars, and probably even a AWD hybrid SUV. Maybe even a turbo-diesel SUV as there are several on the market now. I think there are more professional cavers now than there were in 94. Dozens of the attendees will be cavers who have found some way to make a living with their favorite past-time. I don't know if there were any Hummers at the 94 Convention, but certainly not any made by China. Did I leave out anything ? David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County, Texas
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--- Begin Message ---*ahem!* Carbide is most certainly *NOT* dead! Anyone who thinks it is can send me their old lamps anytime. ;-) ------Original Message------ From: David To: [email protected] Subject: [Texascavers] Reflecting on the 94 Convention Sent: Jun 6, 2009 11:49 AM I was just thinking about the 94 convention in Texas, and how much things have changed. This will be the first convention where Netbooks will be popular. I imagine cavers will have a lot more gadgets than they did in 94. Smartphones, walkie-talkie phones, etc. Wi-Fi laptops have been very common at the last 2 conventions. Also, will there be in 35 mm photos or slides at this convention? Last year there were not any entries were there? It is all digital now. And then there is the hi-def video camcorder. And of course, carbide is dead, and maybe even cyalume sticks. And we have the new retail Energizer LED headlamp. And we have all lost quiet a few caving friends since 94. One of the emotional parts of the convention is the banquet toast to long lost caving friends. I recommend you be there for that if you have lost a caving friend. I imagine there will be a few hybrid cars, and probably even a AWD hybrid SUV. Maybe even a turbo-diesel SUV as there are several on the market now. I think there are more professional cavers now than there were in 94. Dozens of the attendees will be cavers who have found some way to make a living with their favorite past-time. I don't know if there were any Hummers at the 94 Convention, but certainly not any made by China. Did I leave out anything ? David Locklear caver in Fort Bend County, Texas --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
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--- Begin Message ---I don't think the statement about WNS having reached Oklahoma is correct. The latest maps that I can find show it no further west than western Virginia. Also, I know I've heard that there is evidence that the fungus is cold-loving and may not be able to survive or thrive in warmer habitats, such as Texas. This doesn't mean we should be any less vigilant until we know more about it but maybe it's not a sure thing that you are eventually going to see it in Texas.Marvin Miller
--- [email protected] wrote:
From: "Minton, Mark" <[email protected]>
To: nmcaver <[email protected]>, gvks <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, txcaver <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Considering Closing Caves for WNS
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 12:22:54 -0400The following article says that the Texas is considering closing all caves in the state to ward off the possible introduction of White Nose Syndrome. The order would only apply to state-owned caves. I wonder how that would affect the upcoming ICS/NSS convention. <http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1408256.html>Mark MintonPosted on Mon, Jun. 01, 2009As fungus kills bats elsewhere in the U.S., Texas considers closing its cavesBy BILL HANNA--------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]Texas officials are considering closing the state’s caves out of fear that a deadly fungus associated with the growing number of bat deaths in the Northeastern U.S. may spread to this part of the country.White-nose syndrome, so named because the white fungus appears on bats’ noses, has spread rapidly throughout the Northeast since it was first discovered in New York in the winter of 2006-07. It hasn’t been discovered in Texas, but it has already reached 10 states, including Oklahoma.While many people may be creeped out by bats, the nocturnal creatures are considered crucial to the agricultural community. For Texas, home to 33 bat species, widespread deaths could be devastating. A 2007 study found that bats help control pests that cost U.S. farmers $1 billion annually."At this point we’re considering whether we should be closing caves on state-owned lands," said John Young, a Texas Parks and Wildlife mammalogist. "We have a number of them on state-owned lands."The U.S. Forest Service has already closed caves and old mines from Oklahoma to Maine. But the agency has no caves in its national forests or grasslands in Texas, spokeswoman Gay Ippolito said.The situation has become serious enough that two subcommittees of the U.S. House Natural Resources Committee are planning to address it in a hearing Thursday.Last week, Bat Conservation International hosted a conference in Austin to prepare for the hearings and bring experts from across the country to discuss the subject."One of the lead scientists at the meeting said this is the worst wildlife crisis documented in North America in the last century," said Merlin Tuttle, the group’s founder, who was its president/executive director until Sunday."With its rate of spread it could certainly be in Texas within two years," Tuttle said. "We just don’t know. We do know it is something that is certainly killing 95-100 percent of the bats it comes in contact with."Batty bucksA 2006 report in the scientific journal Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment determined that bats provided a $1.7 million benefit to the eight South Texas counties in their study area.The only glimmer of hope for Texas is that Mexican free-tailed bats, the predominant species in Texas, is migratory and doesn’t hibernate in winter. So far, all the species that have had large die-offs hibernate in colder climates in the Northeast. White-nose syndrome appears to lay dormant during the warmer summer months and attacks bats during their winter hibernation, Tuttle said, but there are many unanswered questions."We don’t even know for sure if the fungus itself is the problem or symptom of the problem," Tuttle said. "We do know that bats with this fungus on them arouse far more than normal during normal hibernation. The bats are dying in an emaciated status. The fungus is a strong suspect, but we need to confirm it is the problem. Once we confirm it, we need to learn how it is transmitted — and once it is transmitted, how it attacks the bats."Though it is believed that the fungus is transferred from one bat to another, there is some concern that researchers’ clothing and equipment could spread it from cave to cave. That is why caves have been closed across the country.Restricting accessBracken Cave, outside of San Antonio, is home to the largest Mexican free-tailed bat colony in the world. Its owner, Bat Conservation International, restricts access: The public can view bat emergences but cannot enter the cave.Experts say the public can safely view bat emergences at popular sites like Bracken Cave and the Congress Avenue Bridge in downtown Austin. At the Eckerd James River Cave in the Hill Country, the Nature Conservancy of Texas allows escorted viewings of the emergences from April through October.Visitors do not enter the cave and researchers haven’t been inside for at least four or five years, said John Herron, the Texas chapter’s director of conservation.But Tuttle said the fear is that some researcher will inadvertently bring the fungus to Texas."The big worry is while scientists are trying to find a solution, someone from an infected area will bring spores from the fungus to a cave in Texas from their caving gear or even on their human bodies," Tuttle said. "It could get a big hopscotch leap, which would be terrible. We need every day we have to find a solution before it arrives."BILL HANNA, 817-390-7698
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--- Begin Message ---WNS did not reach Oklahoma. BCI went to check it out, and it was a false alarm – thankfully! George From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Considering Closing Caves for WNS I don't think the statement about WNS having reached Oklahoma is correct. The latest maps that I can find show it no further west than western Virginia. Also, I know I've heard that there is evidence that the fungus is cold-loving and may not be able to survive or thrive in warmer habitats, such as Texas. This doesn't mean we should be any less vigilant until we know more about it but maybe it's not a sure thing that you are eventually going to see it in Texas. Marvin Miller --- [email protected] wrote: From: "Minton, Mark" <[email protected]> To: nmcaver <[email protected]>, gvks <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, txcaver <[email protected]> Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Considering Closing Caves for WNS List-Post: [email protected] Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 12:22:54 -0400 The following article says that the Texas is considering closing all caves in the state to ward off the possible introduction of White Nose Syndrome. The order would only apply to state-owned caves. I wonder how that would affect the upcoming ICS/NSS convention. <http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/1408256.html> Mark Minton Posted on Mon, Jun. 01, 2009 As fungus kills bats elsewhere in the U.S., Texas considers closing its caves By BILL HANNA [email protected] Texas officials are considering closing the state’s caves out of fear that a deadly fungus associated with the growing number of bat deaths in the Northeastern U.S. may spread to this part of the country. White-nose syndrome, so named because the white fungus appears on bats’ noses, has spread rapidly throughout the Northeast since it was first discovered in New York in the winter of 2006-07. It hasn’t been discovered in Texas, but it has already reached 10 states, including Oklahoma. While many people may be creeped out by bats, the nocturnal creatures are considered crucial to the agricultural community. For Texas, home to 33 bat species, widespread deaths could be devastating. A 2007 study found that bats help control pests that cost U.S. farmers $1 billion annually. "At this point we’re considering whether we should be closing caves on state-owned lands," said John Young, a Texas Parks and Wildlife mammalogist. "We have a number of them on state-owned lands." The U.S. Forest Service has already closed caves and old mines from Oklahoma to Maine. But the agency has no caves in its national forests or grasslands in Texas, spokeswoman Gay Ippolito said. The situation has become serious enough that two subcommittees of the U.S. House Natural Resources Committee are planning to address it in a hearing Thursday. Last week, Bat Conservation International hosted a conference in Austin to prepare for the hearings and bring experts from across the country to discuss the subject. "One of the lead scientists at the meeting said this is the worst wildlife crisis documented in North America in the last century," said Merlin Tuttle, the group’s founder, who was its president/executive director until Sunday. "With its rate of spread it could certainly be in Texas within two years," Tuttle said. "We just don’t know. We do know it is something that is certainly killing 95-100 percent of the bats it comes in contact with." Batty bucks A 2006 report in the scientific journal Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment determined that bats provided a $1.7 million benefit to the eight South Texas counties in their study area. The only glimmer of hope for Texas is that Mexican free-tailed bats, the predominant species in Texas, is migratory and doesn’t hibernate in winter. So far, all the species that have had large die-offs hibernate in colder climates in the Northeast. White-nose syndrome appears to lay dormant during the warmer summer months and attacks bats during their winter hibernation, Tuttle said, but there are many unanswered questions. "We don’t even know for sure if the fungus itself is the problem or symptom of the problem," Tuttle said. "We do know that bats with this fungus on them arouse far more than normal during normal hibernation. The bats are dying in an emaciated status. The fungus is a strong suspect, but we need to confirm it is the problem. Once we confirm it, we need to learn how it is transmitted — and once it is transmitted, how it attacks the bats." Though it is believed that the fungus is transferred from one bat to another, there is some concern that researchers’ clothing and equipment could spread it from cave to cave. That is why caves have been closed across the country. Restricting access Bracken Cave, outside of San Antonio, is home to the largest Mexican free-tailed bat colony in the world. Its owner, Bat Conservation International, restricts access: The public can view bat emergences but cannot enter the cave. Experts say the public can safely view bat emergences at popular sites like Bracken Cave and the Congress Avenue Bridge in downtown Austin. At the Eckerd James River Cave in the Hill Country, the Nature Conservancy of Texas allows escorted viewings of the emergences from April through October. Visitors do not enter the cave and researchers haven’t been inside for at least four or five years, said John Herron, the Texas chapter’s director of conservation. But Tuttle said the fear is that some researcher will inadvertently bring the fungus to Texas. "The big worry is while scientists are trying to find a solution, someone from an infected area will bring spores from the fungus to a cave in Texas from their caving gear or even on their human bodies," Tuttle said. "It could get a big hopscotch leap, which would be terrible. We need every day we have to find a solution before it arrives." BILL HANNA, 817-390-7698 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---What ever happend to BLEACH? (Sodium Hypochlorite) solution 1/4 cup added to 5 gallons of water should be enough to disenfect. They do it with Wet Suits all the time. Dunk it....wait 30 sec.. then rinse it all off. Lysol would seem to be a useless waste of money. I have some carpet fresh I'll give away to go with the lysol. List-Post: [email protected] Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:13:11 -0500 From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] CC: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Texas Considering Closing Caves for WNS The Material Safety Data Sheet for Lysol® All-purpose Professional Cleaner (http://www.hescoinc.com/msds/ly74392.pdf) shows concentrations of quats over 3%. I have seen it for about $5 for a 22-ounce bottle online. -- Jim From: Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:53 PM To: [email protected]; nmcaver; txcaver Cc: Lyndon Tiu Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Texas Considering Closing Caves for WNS Mark, et al., >Further info is available at the TSA homepage: >http://www.cavetexas.org/information/white_nose_syndrome.html The link on that page for the USFWS Disinfection Protocol is out of date. It has procedures from March. The supposedly final June versions are here: <http://www.fws.gov/northeast/wnscavers.html>. Note that in several places these new documents state that quaternary ammonium compounds with a concentration of >3% should be used. According to people I have spoken with, that is incorrect. It should state 0.3%. This is actually what the second USFWS document says in the table on page 5, in contradiction to what it says on pages 2 and 3 of the same document. This is very unfortunate. It is actually difficult to find these compounds in concentrations as high as 3%. Mark Minton _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009
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--- Begin Message ---Bleach is used for certain items, but it is harsh and inappropriate for some materials. You'll find it in the protocols. The protocols will also be posted soon in revised form on the ICS website (the revisions are to make them shorter and easier for non-native English readers to understand). George From: S S [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:29 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Texas Considering Closing Caves for WNS What ever happend to BLEACH? (Sodium Hypochlorite) solution 1/4 cup added to 5 gallons of water should be enough to disenfect. They do it with Wet Suits all the time. Dunk it....wait 30 sec.. then rinse it all off. Lysol would seem to be a useless waste of money. I have some carpet fresh I'll give away to go with the lysol. _____ List-Post: [email protected] Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:13:11 -0500 From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] CC: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Texas Considering Closing Caves for WNS The Material Safety Data Sheet for LysolR All-purpose Professional Cleaner ( <http://www.hescoinc.com/msds/ly74392.pdf> http://www.hescoinc.com/msds/ly74392.pdf) shows concentrations of quats over 3%. I have seen it for about $5 for a 22-ounce bottle online. -- Jim From: Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:53 PM To: [email protected]; nmcaver; txcaver Cc: Lyndon Tiu Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Texas Considering Closing Caves for WNS Mark, et al., >Further info is available at the TSA homepage: http://www.cavetexas.org/information/white_nose_syndrome.html The link on that page for the USFWS Disinfection Protocol is out of date. It has procedures from March. The supposedly final June versions are here: <http://www.fws.gov/northeast/wnscavers.html>. Note that in several places these new documents state that quaternary ammonium compounds with a concentration of >3% should be used. According to people I have spoken with, that is incorrect. It should state 0.3%. This is actually what the second USFWS document says in the table on page 5, in contradiction to what it says on pages 2 and 3 of the same document. This is very unfortunate. It is actually difficult to find these compounds in concentrations as high as 3%. Mark Minton _____ Windows LiveT SkyDriveT: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. <http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009>
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--- Begin Message ---Here's an interesting short video from Stephen Alvarez, who did the latest cave photography to show up in National Geographic. There is also a review of a light he used to light the caves. David, right up your alley.Marvin Miller
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--- Begin Message ---Forwarded by Mixon: Begin forwarded message: From: ICS 2009 eList <[email protected]> List-Post: [email protected] Date: June 6, 2009 2:44:20 PM CDT To: [email protected] Subject: 15th ICS - registration and transportation deadlines Dear Friends,Early registration for the 15th International Congress of Speleology (ICS) will end on Monday, 8 June 2009. This is your last opportunity to register for the Pre-ICS trips. You can register for the special Wednesday and Post-ICS trips at the ICS, but by then the spaces may be filled. Register for trips now while there is time and room!Many of you are planning to fly into the San Antonio International Airport and then travel to Kerrville. The ICS will provide free transportation from the airport to Kerrville on 18-19 July and from Kerrville to the airport on 26-27 July. To reserve transportation, please contact our Airport Committee at [email protected] and send your flight information and arrival times. If you are traveling with your family, provide each person’s name. If you are arriving by train, we encourage you to take a taxi to the airport to join the free ICS shuttle. All requests must be received by 7 July 2009. Requests after that date will be filled only if there is space available. Please contact our Airport Committee soon.The world of speleology will be in Kerrville in only 6 weeks! You don’t want to miss out! Please visit our website, www.ics2009.us, for more information.George George Veni, Ph.D. Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology Adjunct Secretary, International Union of Speleology Executive Director, U.S. National Cave and Karst Research Institute ----You have received this message because you are subscribed to the 2009 ICS eList. To unsubscribe, please visit:http://ics2009mail.nfshost.com/pommo/user/ ---------------------------------------------He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton---------------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: [email protected] AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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