texascavers Digest 10 Jun 2009 16:23:43 -0000 Issue 774

Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:24:48 -0700 (PDT) 

texascavers Digest 10 Jun 2009 16:23:43 -0000 Issue 774

Topics (messages 10905 through 10914):

Re: Honeycreek Cave air and related topics
        10905 by: Louise Power

Re: Energizer Headlamp
        10906 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
        10908 by: Lyndon Tiu

Washer & Dryer
        10907 by: Gill Ediger

Bats Recognize Each Others' Voices
        10909 by: Minton, Mark

Re: bat houses
        10910 by: Minton, Mark

DVD Review - The Cavern ( part 1 of review )
        10911 by: David
        10912 by: Mallory Mayeux
        10913 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
        10914 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message --- 
Diana,

 

Just remember, you could always use those candles for your third source of 
light (remember the days?) when your carbide runs out.

 

Louise
 
> CC: [email protected]
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:49:24 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Honeycreek Cave air and related topics
> 
> Ha ha ha, the best part of this discussion is that while we waited for 
> 9 hours for the divers, we burned just about every scented candle that 
> Mallory had purchased at a Bath and Body Works blowout sale! Not only 
> did we have stale air from nasty smelling wet suits and heavily 
> breathing sherpas, it was intermingled with the enticing aromas of 
> "Butterfly Garden" and "Sweet Pea." In addition to adding heat to our 
> trash sacks to keep us warm, the candles also did an OK job of letting 
> us know that there really wasn't that much CO2 in the passage.
> 
> Mallory packed up most of the candle stubs before we left; on the way 
> out of the cave, every time we'd come to a low spot in the ceiling, I 
> could smell those frickin' candles again. I suppose that those scents 
> will always remind me of this particular tank haul trip.
> 
> Diana
> 
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 7:08 PM, David wrote:
> 
> > If you have 20 something cavers in a small passage with bad air
> > breathing heavily
> > for 9 hours, do expect the oxygen level to improve or get worse ?
> >
> > I propose future trips take precautionary measures and release some 
> > oxygen
> > into the passage.
> >
> > It would be little use to install a big fan and flexible conduit to
> > force some air into the shaft entrance
> > because the air would distribute evenly throughout the whole cave and
> > it would also block the entrance
> > from easy in and out trips.
> >
> > Also,
> >
> > A tiny air shaft could be drilled, that could also be used to lower
> > the diving gear into the room where
> > the divers suit up at.
> >
> > Even a 3 inch diameter shaft would be helpful, because you could lower
> > a telephone cable, or pump
> > oxygen into the room, lower emergency food and water, etc.
> >
> > I propose a 3 inch shaft be drilled to confirm the exact location of
> > the 1st sump, and then use the
> > diver's survey to mark the surface where the cave is going.
> >
> >
> > I would also like to propose that the TSA, TCMA, and every Texas caver
> > unite behind a single goal, and
> > I believe that goal should be to finish the map of Honeycreek. (
> > after ICS of course )
> >
> > I hope I live long enough to see the TCMA acquire the Shaft Entrance
> > and at least some sort of permanent
> > access agreement to the Natural Entrance, like an easement.
> >
> > David Locklear
> > caver in Fort Bend County
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Associate Professor
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> Department of Biochemistry
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214B 
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. 
> Email: [email protected]
> 214-645-6383 (phone)
> 214-645-6353 (fax)
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 

On June 5 David called our attention to thi s new headlamp.  I found it on sale 
in tre A utomotive D ept of a local Target in Denver for $29.99.  I think 
David's assessment is pretty much right on and, at this price, it is certainy a 
bargan. 



DirtDoc 



Selected parts of Davids review (see archives : Saturday, June 6, 2009  
[Texascavers] A new era in caving 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David" [email protected] 

Energizer has a new headlamp that rocks.     Target is selling it for $ 40 
along with a similar line of flashlights that I will talk about later. This 
headlamp is unique.     It is as good as the Princeton Tec Apex and in some 
ways far better. 

Not only does this headlamp have 3 very bright light settings, but has an 
additional boost feature better than any other LED product I have tested.   And 
in addition to that it features, 2 tiny 5 mm LEDS for emergency use.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David" [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
> I will be talking about this headlamp again soon, as I
> can't find any info on it on the web.
>
Not a lot of info, but at least there is a picture, this one came with two battery packs, same headlight, just different packaging and accessories: 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229412


[email protected] wrote:
On June 5 David called our attention to this new headlamp. I found it on sale in tre Automotive Dept of a local Target in Denver for $29.99. I think David's assessment is pretty much right on and, at this price, it is certainy a bargan. 



--
Lyndon Tiu

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Vico has acquired a matching Maytag washer and gas dryer, beige, not too old, in good shape, all for free to the first claiment. Ready for pickup or I can store them for a few weeks. 
--Ediger

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8085477.stm>
 
Mark Minton
 
 

Bats 'recognise others' voices'

 

By Victoria Gill
Science reporter, BBC News

 

As if flying around in the dark swooping and diving to catch insects was not tricky enough, bats also listen for their fellow hunters.

 

A study has revealed how these winged mammals recognise other bats' voices.

 

They are able to differentiate the ultrasonic "echolocation" calls that other bats make as they navigate.

 

In the journal PLoS Computational Biology, the scientists report that the bats have an internal "reference" call to which they compare others.

 

Yossi Yovel from the Weizmann Institute of Science, Israel, and his colleagues from the University of Tuebingen in Germany recorded the echolocation calls of five greater mouse-eared bats.

 

The bats use these brief bursts of sound in sonar navigation - bouncing sound waves off their surroundings to find their way and locate prey.

 

Dr Yovel's team tested the bats' ability to identify the others by playing the recorded sounds to them.

 

"Each bat was assigned two others it had to distinguish between," Dr Yovel explained. "So we trained bat A on a platform, playing a sound from bat B on one side and from bat C on the other. He had crawl to where the 'correct' sound was coming from."

 

Each of the subjects was taught that a call from just one of the other bats was correct.

 

So during this training exercise, if the bat A made the right choice, and crawled towards the sound from bat B, it was rewarded with its favourite food - a mealworm.

 

"Then, in the next stage - the test - we rewarded them no matter what choice they made, and they still chose correctly more than 80% of the time," said Dr Yovel.

 

"So we knew the bats were able to distinguish individuals. But it wasn't clear what they're using to discriminate one from the other.

 

"If you think of this in comparison with humans, it's like being able to recognise a person just by listening to the same one-syllable yell in different voices.

 

"The bats learned the voice by listening to hundreds of very short 'yells', but they then were able to recognise an individual based on one single yell."

 

Modelling sound

 

In the second part of the study, Dr Yovel's team designed a computer model to mimic the way in which the bats compared the different sounds.

 

"The model takes all the calls the bat thought were A, and all the calls it thought were B, and tries to understand what differences it is using to match them up," said Dr Yovel.

 

"Our analysis showed that each bat has a typical distribution in the frequencies it emits, probably a result of the differences in each animal's vocal chords."

 

He thinks the bats may have an internal "prototype" - a sort of reference sound against which they can compare these subtle differences.

 

This could explain how bats remain in a group when flying at high speeds in darkness, and how they avoid interference between each others' echolocation calls.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
      In the recent discussion of bat houses I wondered whether they were successful at attracting bats.  At least in England they are:  <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/surrey/7824894.stm>.
 
Mark Minton
 
 

Bat boxes 'bursting with mammals'

 

Bat boxes installed across Surrey are now bursting with the mammals, the county's wildlife trust has said.

 

Species roosting include a rare Bechstein's bat near Ockley, nine Natterer's bats near Dunsfold and a further 12 Natterer's near Elstead.

 

Surrey Wildlife Trust said the junction of the M25 and A3 dual carriageway was now home to noctule bats, brown long-eared bats and soprano pipistrelles.

 

Bats first arrived at the sites in 2007 and numbers are growing, experts said.

 

The wildlife trust is working with the Surrey Bat Group to improve habitats for bats across the county.

 

Derek Smith from Surrey Bat Group said the reserves at Thundry Meadows, near Elstead, and Fir Tree Copse, near Dunsfold, were the only sites where Natterer's bats had been found using boxes.

 

Wallis Wood, near Ockley, was the only site in Surrey where the Bechstein's bat had been discovered, he said.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
You all remember the movies, "The Cave" and "The Descent,"
but do you remember the one called, "The Cavern" ?

Why did Hollywood make 3 very crappy movies about
caving within a year of each other.      ( If they had
combined their financial resources and made one movie,
it would have probably been watchable. )

http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeVideoArt/Large/68/305968.jpg

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm745905408/tt0451262

I found the DVD of "The Cavern" at Half-Price Books.     I don't
remember ever hearing about this movie, but it must have been
that it was rumored to be so bad, that I did not go see it.

The directors of this movie seemed to try harder to make it
more about caving than the other two.     However, the audience
was never given an opportunity to connect with the cavers.   The
cavers seem like a crew assembled for a Survivor TV show.   I
didn't believe any caver on the group deserved to be on this
so-called important expedition, especially the trip leader.

The cave was supposedly in a remote area of Kazakhkstan, however,
there was no beautiful cinematography to make the audience appreciate
the landscape.     The cave entrance and passage were not impressive at all.

The directors tried to make the audience feel sorry for the team as they
had lost a colleague on a previous trip to Peru.    She had washed away
in a sump and was never seen again.      I did not like the way they
played this part into the story.

There was one sex scene in the cave entrance, but it was meant to lead
to the horror plot and not to be erotic.     This scene could have
been done completely
different like a love scene in "Love in the Time of Cholera," and it
could have played out
very well.     Instead the horror part was cheezy and stupid.    The
directors lost
an opportunity for the audience to bond with these 2 cavers.

The cavers tried to appear well organized.    But any caver watching
it would see
a bunch of newbie thrillseekers.     They immediately find a hole in
the floor of the
cave passage that is a pit leading to a lower level.      They never
see on the cave
floor any sign of the cave being used by animals or some creature,
like footprints,
or bones.    They all bop the pit in a matter of seconds, but it is
only about 30 meters
deep.      I think the directors really lost credibility by this time
of the movie.    I don't
know what kind of rappelling device the trip leader used.   It was
larger than a Petzl Stop and was at the
face level of him.     He squeezed it to make it descend like a Petzl.
  ( Some Hollywood gadget ? )
Everybody else appeared to use a rock-climbers tiny Figure-8.    ( I
think most caver's would agree that this
type of Figure-8 is not proper vertical equipment for caving. )

Most of them were using cheap internal frame backpacks on their backs
to haul their
gear, and most of these packs appeared to be half-empty.

They all had 2 lights on their helmet.     But in an effort to look
cool, they used both
lights at the same time, even while their batteries were nearly
depleted and they were
hopelessly trapped in a cave with a beast.

Immediately their cable-operated telephones did not work.
Immediately one of their
buddies was not in the room at the bottom of the pit.    He seemed to
vanish from thin
air.    They followed a large blood trail to him.     His intestines
were hanging out
and he was gasping for air.     The surface crewman was dissected by the
creature and thrown with the rope into the pit.

The rest of the movie was like the Blair Witch Project.     They
eventually shot the
creature which they thought appeared to be a half-bear/half wolf, but
we didn't see
the creature then.      It survived several gun shots in the cave only
to kill the shooter.
( How many cave trips carry a semi-automatic pistol into the cave ? )
   They said
in Kazakhstan, it was necessary, so I will buy that.

So we are down to 3 cavers trapped in what appears to be a small cave with only
a few passages barely big enough to stoop walk.   ( But how does the creature
get down there if there is no passage, and how does such a large creature move
so quietly in the cave and in the dark ).

Then 2 girls are left alone to fend for themselves with almost no
light.     They
find a crawlway leading to sunlight.      The audience thinks these 2 girls are
going to live.

This is when the movie goes from bad to just plain ignorant, and trashy.

The girls get caught, but for some reason unknown to the audience, they faint
and wake up in a room with a campfire and a door sealed by a large rock.
They are naked, but covered in a bear rug.     They have no physical signs
of being kidnapped by a beast.

There is meat roasting on a skewer above the fire, and the girls suddenly
for no reason become savagely hungry and start eating the meat like they
have not eaten in weeks.     They soon realize it was their trip leader friend,
and begin to vomit in a way that most of the audience wants to vomit.

They explore the room, and realize that some human occupies it and that
he was a child survivor of some sort of Russian plane crash back in the 80's.

The creature returns.     He appears to be some sort of cave-man wearing
a cave-bear skull for a mask.     He grunts and takes of his mask.    He
studies the girls.      He decides to spear one of them to a bloody death.
And then he apparently begins to rape the other one, as the movie
ends in her bloody covered face screaming.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2690292992/tt0451262

The worst movie ending I have ever seen.

Nothing about the creature was believable.

The movie audience will not learn anything positive about caving.
They will feel cavers are stupid for entering caves.    They will
feel cavers are boring people with no lives.

Maybe the morale to the story was to tell someone where you
are going caving and to have a surface support group on your
expedition.     But they still would have all been eaten by the
caveman.

Here is a web-review that seems to agree with me that the movie
sucked.

http://www.horror.com/php/article-1309-1.html

David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County

Ref:

Here is a photo of the trip leader, shortly before he was roasted
on the skewer.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2742394112/tt0451262

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Cavern/70051025

https://www.hotmoviesale.com/store/productView.aspx?idProduct=22874&ec=1&ProdId=29

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

David, I just skimmed your review, but you have to label it "SPOILER ALERT"
before you write a review that gives away the plot!!! Texas cavers need to
experience this firsthand!
I was introduced to this piece of cinematic trash by Ronnie Harrison, a
TX/KY caver in the Houston Grotto. He came over and we watched this movie @
my place, just so he could watch the expression on my face during the last
15 minutes. This movie is SICK. A very disturbed individual wrote this
script. It's vile.

That being said, I'm definitely going to buy a copy. I want to watch the
last 15 minutes on repeat a few times, just to be sure that I saw what I
think I saw. Also, I'd like to share this movie with friends & fellow
cavers, preferably drunk ones. (you need to be, to watch this in it's
entirety.) I want them to marvel, as I did, about who in the heck thought it
a valuable use of their time to produce this crap.

David, I also love how you took time out of your busy schedule, not just to
watch this thing, but to write a detailed review of it and post it on
cavetex, and find links and web reviews for this trainwreck.

That's dedication. Now if only we could get you as fired up about coming
down in the cave with us.... :)

Mallory



On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:04 AM, David <[email protected]> wrote:

> You all remember the movies, "The Cave" and "The Descent,"
> but do you remember the one called, "The Cavern" ?
>
> Why did Hollywood make 3 very crappy movies about
> caving within a year of each other.      ( If they had
> combined their financial resources and made one movie,
> it would have probably been watchable. )
>
> http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeVideoArt/Large/68/305968.jpg
>
> http://www.imdb.com/media/rm745905408/tt0451262
>
> I found the DVD of "The Cavern" at Half-Price Books.     I don't
> remember ever hearing about this movie, but it must have been
> that it was rumored to be so bad, that I did not go see it.
>
> The directors of this movie seemed to try harder to make it
> more about caving than the other two.     However, the audience
> was never given an opportunity to connect with the cavers.   The
> cavers seem like a crew assembled for a Survivor TV show.   I
> didn't believe any caver on the group deserved to be on this
> so-called important expedition, especially the trip leader.
>
> The cave was supposedly in a remote area of Kazakhkstan, however,
> there was no beautiful cinematography to make the audience appreciate
> the landscape.     The cave entrance and passage were not impressive at
> all.
>
> The directors tried to make the audience feel sorry for the team as they
> had lost a colleague on a previous trip to Peru.    She had washed away
> in a sump and was never seen again.      I did not like the way they
> played this part into the story.
>
> There was one sex scene in the cave entrance, but it was meant to lead
> to the horror plot and not to be erotic.     This scene could have
> been done completely
> different like a love scene in "Love in the Time of Cholera," and it
> could have played out
> very well.     Instead the horror part was cheezy and stupid.    The
> directors lost
> an opportunity for the audience to bond with these 2 cavers.
>
> The cavers tried to appear well organized.    But any caver watching
> it would see
> a bunch of newbie thrillseekers.     They immediately find a hole in
> the floor of the
> cave passage that is a pit leading to a lower level.      They never
> see on the cave
> floor any sign of the cave being used by animals or some creature,
> like footprints,
> or bones.    They all bop the pit in a matter of seconds, but it is
> only about 30 meters
> deep.      I think the directors really lost credibility by this time
> of the movie.    I don't
> know what kind of rappelling device the trip leader used.   It was
> larger than a Petzl Stop and was at the
> face level of him.     He squeezed it to make it descend like a Petzl.
>  ( Some Hollywood gadget ? )
> Everybody else appeared to use a rock-climbers tiny Figure-8.    ( I
> think most caver's would agree that this
> type of Figure-8 is not proper vertical equipment for caving. )
>
> Most of them were using cheap internal frame backpacks on their backs
> to haul their
> gear, and most of these packs appeared to be half-empty.
>
> They all had 2 lights on their helmet.     But in an effort to look
> cool, they used both
> lights at the same time, even while their batteries were nearly
> depleted and they were
> hopelessly trapped in a cave with a beast.
>
> Immediately their cable-operated telephones did not work.
> Immediately one of their
> buddies was not in the room at the bottom of the pit.    He seemed to
> vanish from thin
> air.    They followed a large blood trail to him.     His intestines
> were hanging out
> and he was gasping for air.     The surface crewman was dissected by the
> creature and thrown with the rope into the pit.
>
> The rest of the movie was like the Blair Witch Project.     They
> eventually shot the
> creature which they thought appeared to be a half-bear/half wolf, but
> we didn't see
> the creature then.      It survived several gun shots in the cave only
> to kill the shooter.
> ( How many cave trips carry a semi-automatic pistol into the cave ? )
>   They said
> in Kazakhstan, it was necessary, so I will buy that.
>
> So we are down to 3 cavers trapped in what appears to be a small cave with
> only
> a few passages barely big enough to stoop walk.   ( But how does the
> creature
> get down there if there is no passage, and how does such a large creature
> move
> so quietly in the cave and in the dark ).
>
> Then 2 girls are left alone to fend for themselves with almost no
> light.     They
> find a crawlway leading to sunlight.      The audience thinks these 2 girls
> are
> going to live.
>
> This is when the movie goes from bad to just plain ignorant, and trashy.
>
> The girls get caught, but for some reason unknown to the audience, they
> faint
> and wake up in a room with a campfire and a door sealed by a large rock.
> They are naked, but covered in a bear rug.     They have no physical signs
> of being kidnapped by a beast.
>
> There is meat roasting on a skewer above the fire, and the girls suddenly
> for no reason become savagely hungry and start eating the meat like they
> have not eaten in weeks.     They soon realize it was their trip leader
> friend,
> and begin to vomit in a way that most of the audience wants to vomit.
>
> They explore the room, and realize that some human occupies it and that
> he was a child survivor of some sort of Russian plane crash back in the
> 80's.
>
> The creature returns.     He appears to be some sort of cave-man wearing
> a cave-bear skull for a mask.     He grunts and takes of his mask.    He
> studies the girls.      He decides to spear one of them to a bloody death.
> And then he apparently begins to rape the other one, as the movie
> ends in her bloody covered face screaming.
>
> http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2690292992/tt0451262
>
> The worst movie ending I have ever seen.
>
> Nothing about the creature was believable.
>
> The movie audience will not learn anything positive about caving.
> They will feel cavers are stupid for entering caves.    They will
> feel cavers are boring people with no lives.
>
> Maybe the morale to the story was to tell someone where you
> are going caving and to have a surface support group on your
> expedition.     But they still would have all been eaten by the
> caveman.
>
> Here is a web-review that seems to agree with me that the movie
> sucked.
>
> http://www.horror.com/php/article-1309-1.html
>
> David Locklear
> caver in Fort Bend County
>
> Ref:
>
> Here is a photo of the trip leader, shortly before he was roasted
> on the skewer.
>
> http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2742394112/tt0451262
>
> http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Cavern/70051025
>
>
> https://www.hotmoviesale.com/store/productView.aspx?idProduct=22874&ec=1&ProdId=29
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hollywood makes many bad movies. I wish there was a caving Bollywood movie. Bad Bollywood is much better than mediocre Hollywood.
 
T.


Jun 10, 2009 11:05:46 AM, [email protected] wrote:
You all remember the movies, "The Cave" and "The Descent,"
but do you remember the one called, "The Cavern" ?

Why did Hollywood make 3 very crappy movies about
caving within a year of each other. ( If they had
combined their financial resources and made one movie,
it would have probably been watchable. )

http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeVideoArt/Large/68/305968.jpg

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm745905408/tt0451262

I found the DVD of "The Cavern" at Half-Price Books. I don't
remember ever hearing about this movie, but it must have been
that it was rumored to be so bad, that I did not go see it.

The directors of this movie seemed to try harder to make it
more about caving than the other two. However, the audience
was never given an opportunity to connect with the cavers. The
cavers seem like a crew assembled for a Survivor TV show. I
didn't believe any caver on the group deserved to be on this
so-called important expedition, especially the trip leader.

The cave was supposedly in a remote area of Kazakhkstan, however,
there was no beautiful cinematography to make the audience appreciate
the landscape. The cave entrance and passage were not impressive at all.

The directors tried to make the audience feel sorry for the team as they
had lost a colleague on a previous trip to Peru. She had washed away
in a sump and was never seen again. I did not like the way they
played this part into the story.

There was one sex scene in the cave entrance, but it was meant to lead
to the horror plot and not to be erotic. This scene could have
been done completely
different like a love scene in "Love in the Time of Cholera," and it
could have played out
very well. Instead the horror part was cheezy and stupid. The
directors lost
an opportunity for the audience to bond with these 2 cavers.

The cavers tried to appear well organized. But any caver watching
it would see
a bunch of newbie thrillseekers. They immediately find a hole in
the floor of the
cave passage that is a pit leading to a lower level. They never
see on the cave
floor any sign of the cave being used by animals or some creature,
like footprints,
or bones. They all bop the pit in a matter of seconds, but it is
only about 30 meters
deep. I think the directors really lost credibility by this time
of the movie. I don't
know what kind of rappelling device the trip leader used. It was
larger than a Petzl Stop and was at the
face level of him. He squeezed it to make it descend like a Petzl.
( Some Hollywood gadget ? )
Everybody else appeared to use a rock-climbers tiny Figure-8. ( I
think most caver's would agree that this
type of Figure-8 is not proper vertical equipment for caving. )

Most of them were using cheap internal frame backpacks on their backs
to haul their
gear, and most of these packs appeared to be half-empty.

They all had 2 lights on their helmet. But in an effort to look
cool, they used both
lights at the same time, even while their batteries were nearly
depleted and they were
hopelessly trapped in a cave with a beast.

Immediately their cable-operated telephones did not work.
Immediately one of their
buddies was not in the room at the bottom of the pit. He seemed to
vanish from thin
air. They followed a large blood trail to him. His intestines
were hanging out
and he was gasping for air. The surface crewman was dissected by the
creature and thrown with the rope into the pit.

The rest of the movie was like the Blair Witch Project. They
eventually shot the
creature which they thought appeared to be a half-bear/half wolf, but
we didn't see
the creature then. It survived several gun shots in the cave only
to kill the shooter.
( How many cave trips carry a semi-automatic pistol into the cave ? )
They said
in Kazakhstan, it was necessary, so I will buy that.

So we are down to 3 cavers trapped in what appears to be a small cave with only
a few passages barely big enough to stoop walk. ( But how does the creature
get down there if there is no passage, and how does such a large creature move
so quietly in the cave and in the dark ).

Then 2 girls are left alone to fend for themselves with almost no
light. They
find a crawlway leading to sunlight. The audience thinks these 2 girls are
going to live.

This is when the movie goes from bad to just plain ignorant, and trashy.

The girls get caught, but for some reason unknown to the audience, they faint
and wake up in a room with a campfire and a door sealed by a large rock.
They are naked, but covered in a bear rug. They have no physical signs
of being kidnapped by a beast.

There is meat roasting on a skewer above the fire, and the girls suddenly
for no reason become savagely hungry and start eating the meat like they
have not eaten in weeks. They soon realize it was their trip leader friend,
and begin to vomit in a way that most of the audience wants to vomit.

They explore the room, and realize that some human occupies it and that
he was a child survivor of some sort of Russian plane crash back in the 80's.

The creature returns. He appears to be some sort of cave-man wearing
a cave-bear skull for a mask. He grunts and takes of his mask. He
studies the girls. He decides to spear one of them to a bloody death.
And then he apparently begins to rape the other one, as the movie
ends in her bloody covered face screaming.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2690292992/tt0451262

The worst movie ending I have ever seen.

Nothing about the creature was believable.

The movie audience will not learn anything positive about caving.
They will feel cavers are stupid for entering caves. They will
feel cavers are boring people with no lives.

Maybe the morale to the story was to tell someone where you
are going caving and to have a surface support group on your
expedition. But they still would have all been eaten by the
caveman.

Here is a web-review that seems to agree with me that the movie
sucked.

http://www.horror.com/php/article-1309-1.html

David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County

Ref:

Here is a photo of the trip leader, shortly before he was roasted
on the skewer.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2742394112/tt0451262

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Cavern/70051025

https://www.hotmoviesale.com/store/productView.aspx?idProduct=22874&ec=1&ProdId=29

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--- Begin Message --- 
>> Now if only we could get you as fired up about coming down in the cave with 
>> us.... :) <<

What she said.

Bill 


---- Mallory Mayeux <[email protected]> wrote: 
> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!
> 
> David, I just skimmed your review, but you have to label it "SPOILER ALERT"
> before you write a review that gives away the plot!!! Texas cavers need to
> experience this firsthand!
> I was introduced to this piece of cinematic trash by Ronnie Harrison, a
> TX/KY caver in the Houston Grotto. He came over and we watched this movie @
> my place, just so he could watch the expression on my face during the last
> 15 minutes. This movie is SICK. A very disturbed individual wrote this
> script. It's vile.
> 
> That being said, I'm definitely going to buy a copy. I want to watch the
> last 15 minutes on repeat a few times, just to be sure that I saw what I
> think I saw. Also, I'd like to share this movie with friends & fellow
> cavers, preferably drunk ones. (you need to be, to watch this in it's
> entirety.) I want them to marvel, as I did, about who in the heck thought it
> a valuable use of their time to produce this crap.
> 
> David, I also love how you took time out of your busy schedule, not just to
> watch this thing, but to write a detailed review of it and post it on
> cavetex, and find links and web reviews for this trainwreck.
> 
> That's dedication. Now if only we could get you as fired up about coming
> down in the cave with us.... :)
> 
> Mallory
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:04 AM, David <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > You all remember the movies, "The Cave" and "The Descent,"
> > but do you remember the one called, "The Cavern" ?
> >
> > Why did Hollywood make 3 very crappy movies about
> > caving within a year of each other.      ( If they had
> > combined their financial resources and made one movie,
> > it would have probably been watchable. )
> >
> > http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeVideoArt/Large/68/305968.jpg
> >
> > http://www.imdb.com/media/rm745905408/tt0451262
> >
> > I found the DVD of "The Cavern" at Half-Price Books.     I don't
> > remember ever hearing about this movie, but it must have been
> > that it was rumored to be so bad, that I did not go see it.
> >
> > The directors of this movie seemed to try harder to make it
> > more about caving than the other two.     However, the audience
> > was never given an opportunity to connect with the cavers.   The
> > cavers seem like a crew assembled for a Survivor TV show.   I
> > didn't believe any caver on the group deserved to be on this
> > so-called important expedition, especially the trip leader.
> >
> > The cave was supposedly in a remote area of Kazakhkstan, however,
> > there was no beautiful cinematography to make the audience appreciate
> > the landscape.     The cave entrance and passage were not impressive at
> > all.
> >
> > The directors tried to make the audience feel sorry for the team as they
> > had lost a colleague on a previous trip to Peru.    She had washed away
> > in a sump and was never seen again.      I did not like the way they
> > played this part into the story.
> >
> > There was one sex scene in the cave entrance, but it was meant to lead
> > to the horror plot and not to be erotic.     This scene could have
> > been done completely
> > different like a love scene in "Love in the Time of Cholera," and it
> > could have played out
> > very well.     Instead the horror part was cheezy and stupid.    The
> > directors lost
> > an opportunity for the audience to bond with these 2 cavers.
> >
> > The cavers tried to appear well organized.    But any caver watching
> > it would see
> > a bunch of newbie thrillseekers.     They immediately find a hole in
> > the floor of the
> > cave passage that is a pit leading to a lower level.      They never
> > see on the cave
> > floor any sign of the cave being used by animals or some creature,
> > like footprints,
> > or bones.    They all bop the pit in a matter of seconds, but it is
> > only about 30 meters
> > deep.      I think the directors really lost credibility by this time
> > of the movie.    I don't
> > know what kind of rappelling device the trip leader used.   It was
> > larger than a Petzl Stop and was at the
> > face level of him.     He squeezed it to make it descend like a Petzl.
> >  ( Some Hollywood gadget ? )
> > Everybody else appeared to use a rock-climbers tiny Figure-8.    ( I
> > think most caver's would agree that this
> > type of Figure-8 is not proper vertical equipment for caving. )
> >
> > Most of them were using cheap internal frame backpacks on their backs
> > to haul their
> > gear, and most of these packs appeared to be half-empty.
> >
> > They all had 2 lights on their helmet.     But in an effort to look
> > cool, they used both
> > lights at the same time, even while their batteries were nearly
> > depleted and they were
> > hopelessly trapped in a cave with a beast.
> >
> > Immediately their cable-operated telephones did not work.
> > Immediately one of their
> > buddies was not in the room at the bottom of the pit.    He seemed to
> > vanish from thin
> > air.    They followed a large blood trail to him.     His intestines
> > were hanging out
> > and he was gasping for air.     The surface crewman was dissected by the
> > creature and thrown with the rope into the pit.
> >
> > The rest of the movie was like the Blair Witch Project.     They
> > eventually shot the
> > creature which they thought appeared to be a half-bear/half wolf, but
> > we didn't see
> > the creature then.      It survived several gun shots in the cave only
> > to kill the shooter.
> > ( How many cave trips carry a semi-automatic pistol into the cave ? )
> >   They said
> > in Kazakhstan, it was necessary, so I will buy that.
> >
> > So we are down to 3 cavers trapped in what appears to be a small cave with
> > only
> > a few passages barely big enough to stoop walk.   ( But how does the
> > creature
> > get down there if there is no passage, and how does such a large creature
> > move
> > so quietly in the cave and in the dark ).
> >
> > Then 2 girls are left alone to fend for themselves with almost no
> > light.     They
> > find a crawlway leading to sunlight.      The audience thinks these 2 girls
> > are
> > going to live.
> >
> > This is when the movie goes from bad to just plain ignorant, and trashy.
> >
> > The girls get caught, but for some reason unknown to the audience, they
> > faint
> > and wake up in a room with a campfire and a door sealed by a large rock.
> > They are naked, but covered in a bear rug.     They have no physical signs
> > of being kidnapped by a beast.
> >
> > There is meat roasting on a skewer above the fire, and the girls suddenly
> > for no reason become savagely hungry and start eating the meat like they
> > have not eaten in weeks.     They soon realize it was their trip leader
> > friend,
> > and begin to vomit in a way that most of the audience wants to vomit.
> >
> > They explore the room, and realize that some human occupies it and that
> > he was a child survivor of some sort of Russian plane crash back in the
> > 80's.
> >
> > The creature returns.     He appears to be some sort of cave-man wearing
> > a cave-bear skull for a mask.     He grunts and takes of his mask.    He
> > studies the girls.      He decides to spear one of them to a bloody death.
> > And then he apparently begins to rape the other one, as the movie
> > ends in her bloody covered face screaming.
> >
> > http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2690292992/tt0451262
> >
> > The worst movie ending I have ever seen.
> >
> > Nothing about the creature was believable.
> >
> > The movie audience will not learn anything positive about caving.
> > They will feel cavers are stupid for entering caves.    They will
> > feel cavers are boring people with no lives.
> >
> > Maybe the morale to the story was to tell someone where you
> > are going caving and to have a surface support group on your
> > expedition.     But they still would have all been eaten by the
> > caveman.
> >
> > Here is a web-review that seems to agree with me that the movie
> > sucked.
> >
> > http://www.horror.com/php/article-1309-1.html
> >
> > David Locklear
> > caver in Fort Bend County
> >
> > Ref:
> >
> > Here is a photo of the trip leader, shortly before he was roasted
> > on the skewer.
> >
> > http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2742394112/tt0451262
> >
> > http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Cavern/70051025
> >
> >
> > https://www.hotmoviesale.com/store/productView.aspx?idProduct=22874&ec=1&ProdId=29
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >
> >

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