texascavers Digest 19 Jun 2009 04:45:17 -0000 Issue 781
Topics (messages 11019 through 11032):
ICS cave trip question
11019 by: David
11021 by: Travis Scott
11022 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
Re: WNS
11020 by: Michael Sisson
Re: Jack Burch passing :
11023 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
11025 by: CWAN.boernenet.com
Re: commentary
11024 by: Geary Schindel
a good tiny LED lantern
11026 by: David
a good $ 15 headlamp
11027 by: David
LED related
11028 by: David
Re: Karst inventory volunteer opportunity
11029 by: germanyj.aol.com
Caves In/Around Buffalo Trails Scout Ranch near Fort Davis
11030 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
Bats at Best Friends Animal Sanctuary
11031 by: Louise Power
ICS Texas attendees
11032 by: David
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--- Begin Message ---
I don't think I am going to get to go caving this summer, but I am
curious about the
cave trips being offered at ICS.
Has anyone made a list of all the caves that are closed and also the
ones temporarily closed during ICS. I am just
curious if there is a formal list ?
Or would it be easier to have a formal list of caves that will be open ?
So far I have only heard "rumors" that there may be a trip in
Honeycreek upstream of the shaft, and of
trips to caves at Colorado Bend State Park. And I heard a "rumor" of
a trip near Boerne.
But what about some of the major caves in Texas ?
Are any of the caves that are normally closed being opened for ICS ?
Indian Creek Cave, Valdina Farms Sinkhole, etc.
What is the closest open cave to Kerrville that is on the top long or deep list?
I have not visited any caves around there, except the one at Enchanted Rock,
and the lower passage in Cascade Caverns.
Speaking of rumors,
I heard that a band from Bandera is playing at the Howdy Party. I am certain
I will at least show up for the Howdy Party.
Cheers,
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David and all,
After the changes from WNS, everything had to be rethunk. We are
finally beginning to finalize the trips (yes only a month out) and I
plan to get an official daily schedule, which includes cave and trip
descriptions, out in the coming weeks. This includes a few of the caves
you mentioned and more. Unfortunately, due to summer bat populations,
many good caves will not be visited during the ICS. WNS complications
closed even more caves. We have worked hard to offer the best trips
possible under these constraints and I believe we have a good schedule
of trips to offer which exhibit the broad range of trips Texas has to
offer. As soon as I can, we'll get it publicized and get word out.
Travis
David wrote:
I don't think I am going to get to go caving this summer, but I am
curious about the
cave trips being offered at ICS.
Has anyone made a list of all the caves that are closed and also the
ones temporarily closed during ICS. I am just
curious if there is a formal list ?
Or would it be easier to have a formal list of caves that will be open ?
So far I have only heard "rumors" that there may be a trip in
Honeycreek upstream of the shaft, and of
trips to caves at Colorado Bend State Park. And I heard a "rumor" of
a trip near Boerne.
But what about some of the major caves in Texas ?
Are any of the caves that are normally closed being opened for ICS ?
Indian Creek Cave, Valdina Farms Sinkhole, etc.
What is the closest open cave to Kerrville that is on the top long or deep list?
I have not visited any caves around there, except the one at Enchanted Rock,
and the lower passage in Cascade Caverns.
Speaking of rumors,
I heard that a band from Bandera is playing at the Howdy Party. I am certain
I will at least show up for the Howdy Party.
Cheers,
David Locklear
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--
Travis Scott
979.450.0103 Cell
[email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
No.
No.
No.
Need more info to answer your question.
Yes.
No, No.
You should be able to answer this one, but anyway : CWAN at 53.3 km from
Kerrville.
**************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your
fingertips.
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dormant doesn't mean dead.
On Jun 16, 2009, at 11:02 PM, David wrote:
Since the fungus is dormant above 75 degrees, then many Texas bat
caves should be o.k.
to visit. Right ?
If someone enters the shaft at Honeycreek and exits at the small wet
entrance, how could
they possibly transmit WNS to any bats roosting in the dry entrance ?
Any WNS on them
would have been washed off.
If a Texas bat had the fungus but left the cave to eat ( where the
temperature is 100 degrees )
that would kill the fungus. Right ?
Did anybody see the news-story about American crops being destroyed
by WNS ?
I think it was a tabloid story in Israel.
Have any new cases of WNS been found in the past month ?
I bet if you leave your caving gear out in the 100 degree sun for
about an hour, that will
be all the decon you will need.
David Locklear
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Michael Sisson
[email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This indeed a huge loss and thanks for posting it, Jerry.
If anyone has an obit, memories, trip reports, recollections, and photos
relating to Jack that they would like to send my way for the TEXAS CAVER,
please do so.
How strange is it that the current issue of the TC (going out, finally, this
week) has news of Bart Crisman's passing, as well.
Thanks,
Mark
________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tue 6/16/2009 7:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Jack Burch passing :
The caving world has lost one of its grand old gentlemen. Jack C. Burch (NSS
#2175) passed away on Monday from complications due to Alzheimer's Disease.
Services will be held on either Thursday or Friday of this week.
Jack's contributions to caving are legion and I'm not the person that should
put them to paper as others were much more familiar with him and his
accomplishments. I'm sure a more detailed accounting of his life will be
forthcoming in the NSS News and Texas Caver. Until then, here are a few
remembrances :
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I remember back in 2000 when the folks at Caverns of Sonora were
attempting to lease CWAN and they were putting me through their version of
show cave managers boot camp, I got to meet and hang out with Jack several
times. The most memorable was at the NCA convention in Tucson. Jack had
been helping with the development of Kartchner Caverns which was done with
a nearly unlimited budget. I was coming out of the cave with my mind
throughly blown by the cave and by the amazing trails, lights, airlocks
etc. With all the VIP's from the show cave world present, Jack came up to
me (a relitive newbee) and said "Well what do ya think? Cave Without a
Name is better isn't it?" That's the kind of guy he was. He had an artists
eye and an engineers mind. The best story I heard about Jack was how he
blew uo a 300 pound rock just a few feet in front of the butterfly without
causing any dammage to anything except the rock. I'll let someone who was
there tell that story so I don't exagerate it.
Mike Burrell
Manager
Cave Without a Name
> This indeed a huge loss and thanks for posting it, Jerry.
>
> If anyone has an obit, memories, trip reports, recollections, and photos
relating to Jack that they would like to send my way for the TEXAS CAVER,
> please do so.
>
> How strange is it that the current issue of the TC (going out, finally,
this week) has news of Bart Crisman's passing, as well.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tue 6/16/2009 7:28 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] Jack Burch passing :
>
>
> The caving world has lost one of its grand old gentlemen. Jack C. Burch
(NSS #2175) passed away on Monday from complications due to Alzheimer's
Disease. Services will be held on either Thursday or Friday of this week.
>
> Jack's contributions to caving are legion and I'm not the person that
should put them to paper as others were much more familiar with him and
his accomplishments. I'm sure a more detailed accounting of his life will
> be forthcoming in the NSS News and Texas Caver. Until then, here are a
few remembrances :
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow,
That was a great trailer,
Looking forward to the full show.
Joe, Grace, and others, thanks for your hard work on this project, I'm sure it
will be great.
Geary
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Datri [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:35 PM
To: David
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] commentary
David,
You forgot to mention one thing that people should not miss at the ICS
this year.
The worldwide premiere of the film "Texas Cavers"
It will be playing on Monday July 20th @ 6pm in the Dietert
Auditorium. It is only one hour, so you will still be able to make
the Howdy Party afterwards.
Oh, and David, you are in it.
If you have not heard about it yet, then you need to check out the
website and watch the trailer.
www.texascaversmovie.com
-Joe Datri
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 3:25 PM, David<[email protected]> wrote:
> Is anybody out there still not convinced you will miss a whole lot
> of fun if you skip the ICS event ?
>
> Surely most of the CaveTex readers by now have already decided on
> whether or not they are going to ICS.
>
> I am posting this because I wish someone had tried harder to convince
> me to attend the caving conventions when I was a newbie.
>
> Many of you that attend will arrive on or before Friday night the 17th.
> That is only 31 days away.
>
> Meaning anyone who has not yet heard of ICS or hasn't made up their
> mind yet, has little time to get fired up for it.
>
> It is possible that there are cavers out there who have lost contact
> with their nearest grotto and may not have heard about ICS.
>
> If you know some caver like that, call them up and invite them at least to the
> Howdy Party. I called an Aggie caver that I haven't caved with in 22 years,
> and a Houston caver I haven't caved with in almost 10 years. They could
> not come.
>
>
> But just in case you are still procrastinating about going:
>
> I think if you can only attend one day, then you probably don't want to
> miss the big slide show.
>
> I hope I don't miss the Terminal Siphons concert. Rumor is that they
> are going to have a great saxophonist this year. So don't miss that.
>
> Seeing all the maps, photos, and artwork on display is an opportunity
> that you won't get again.
>
> The Speleo-olympics should be quite exciting, with some of the fastest
> froggers in the world.
>
> And listening to the exploration talks by the caver's that made the
> latest discoveries,
> connections, and record-breaking trips is very motivating. ( Do you
> remember the
> 1st time your eyes saw The Chandelier ? )
>
> It is fun to make new friends, and this event will be a good place to do that.
> ( for me, I think that is the best reason )
>
> And hopefully, you will have an opportunity to go in a cave that you might
> otherwise never have a chance to go in, or at least to go caving with a
> famous caver that you may never get to go caving with. You will get
> that warm fuzzy feeling by being able to say "oh yeh, I have caved with
> her."
>
> And meeting the cavers that work as vendors is a real treat,
> and watching them custom make your gear on site is fun.
>
> I imagine a few cavers will go to a good swimming hole like
> Krause Springs and you can join them and have a lot of fun.
> I want to do that.
>
> I encourage newbies to try to get to know the old-timers there,
> like Dick Blenz. You would be surprised how dedicated to
> caving they still are.
>
> For those of you who have never camped in Texas in July,
> you don't need a sleeping bag. Just wrap up in a large
> cotton sheet. Wash off with a wet rag before going to bed
> and wipe the sweat off of you until your body cools down.
> I prefer sleeping on a cot as opposed to sleeping on the
> ground. Just spray a little bug spray on you.
>
> And the best tents are the ones with lots of netting and the
> bigger the tent the better. Don't use a Goretex single wall tent.
> You will be miserable. And having your tent under some
> kind of canopy or tarp is a big help especially if you plan to camp
> all week.
>
> If you are on a really tight budget like I am going to be. Here
> are some tips: Learn to like cheap sardines. Any fruit you
> buy will probably spoil thus wasting your money. If you must
> go to a restaurant, order a bowl of soup and drink water. You
> can survive for a week on a few cans of cheap beanie-wienies.
> There is a salad restaurant in downtown Kerrville. Their
> Taco Soup is the best I have ever had.
>
> I guess my last thoughts are that you won't be able to reminisce
> about the convention someday unless you attend it. Cavers
> will probably be talking about this event around the campfire
> for many years to come, and you will just have to shrug your
> shoulders and say, I wasn't there.
>
> Bring a nylon pvc-coated poncho, if you have one. A golf
> umbrella comes in handy as several cavers can stand under
> it to walk between the events during the storm.
>
> Has anyone ever seen a caving convention without a storm ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Locklear
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The lantern I am about to describe is one that I would
recommend you take on your next camping trip.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66266
I paid $ 8.65 at Harbor Freight Tools.
It is tiny enough to take on a mult-day underground
trip where you will be camping in the cave.
It is rugged.
The brand-name is Gordon, famous for making el-cheapo
LED products.
It is called Camping Lantern Mini and has the words
7 LED on the package.
It has a dim setting allowing you to extend your
batteries.
Compared to other LED mini-lanterns I feel this is the
best value for the dollar, and the best for caving.
This product was found on the isle that has tent stakes.
The lantern did NOT pass the water bucket test. However, I
am pretty sure some silicone around the lantern globe will
keep out the water. I hope the circuits are not fried. Maybe
they will work after the lantern dries out. Otherwise, I
will have to buy another one, and put some silicone
sealant on it.
I will have one of these at my next yard sale.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It has only been days since I reported on the awesome Energizer LED headlamp.
Today, I found a $ 15 headlamp that has some unique features.
http://www.wattco.net/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/20090410-084440.jpg
For example, you could put 2 of them on your helmet and for $ 30 plus tax,
you would have a poor-man's Stenlight.
The headlamp is made by Bayco and is found at Walmart in the section
where they sell long flourescent tube light bulbs, ( not with the
other headlamps ).
( They have another Bayco headlamp and and 2 flashlights that I may talk about
some day. )
What is great about this headlamp is that it has 3 light settings:
Bright Flood, a Brighter Spot, and Brighter Flood.
In crawling and stooping size passage you would use the low setting.
And looking up at domes or down long large passage you would use
the Spot setting, and while in walking size passage you would use
the Brighter Flood setting. So it is an all round good light. It just
doesn't have a really dim setting for when you are just sitting around
waiting for some other caver to do something like finish a dive.
If you are looking to buy a headlamp at a department store, and can't afford
the $ 40 Energizer, then this just may be the light you are looking for.
I am pretty sure with a little duck-tape that it would survive several caving
trips. It is perfectly suited out-of-the-box for a trip to Whirlpool.
It is probably comparable to the Black Diamond lights in the $ 30 range,
like the Cosmo.
I did not do the water-bucket test, because it seemed obvious it would need
some silicone around the lens and some duct-tape around the battery compartment.
The next time you are in Walmart, I recommend that you get you one.
It is a great light for sitting around camp and cooking.
Disclaimer: This headlamp is not as rugged as the $ 24 Pelican that
can be found at some army surplus stores, or the Cyclops sold at
Gander Mountain, however, it may have better light settings, and fits
in your pack as a back-up much better.
I would have to say it is more suitable as a back-up headlamp if you
were going caving all-day or overnight in a big cave.
If this lamp were sold at REI or Whole Earth, it would still be competitive
with lights by Petzl or Princeton Tec.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One way to test your LED flashlight is to do a drop test.
Today, I accidentally knocked my best flashlight off the
work bench and it fell 38 inches to land on a bare
concrete floor.
When I picked it up it did not work, so I was a bit
disappointed. But after removing the lens housing
and putting it back on, it seemed to work fine.
I believe if this flashlight had a rubber housing like
the cheap Garrity flashlights have, then it would
easily survive such a drop in a cave.
Of course, you are not supposed to drop your light in
a cave, but it has happened before, like when you trip
and it falls out of your hand down a flowstone slope, or it rolls off a ledge.
( It helps to have a cord from the flashlight to your wrist. )
( I know an old-timer that lost his carbide
head-lamp in Midnight Cave 20 years ago, and I am
willing to bet that it is still there. )
It doesn't take much to break a filament bulb flashlight,
and that is one reason, why LEDs are so much better
for caving.
Also, while the flashlight is in your pack, it can get
banged up pretty good, from dragging thru the cave.
In summary, on several occasions when I dropped an
LED flashlight, it still worked fine.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
forwarded message
-----Original Message-----
From: Dietz, Daniel <[email protected]>
To: Dietz, Daniel <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2009 12:44 pm
Subject: Karst inventory volunteer opportunity
Sorry things have been slow lately, but here is a great
chance to enjoy the summer heat
Karst
Inventory – Onion (moderate)
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Saturday June 27
Time: 8:30 am to 11:45 am
Location: Onion Creek
management area on FM 967 between Buda and Driftwood
Description: Our prescribed
burn in early June has created perfect karst feature hunting conditions.
Karst features are caves and sinkholes where rainwater enters the Edwards
aquifer. Come help us find, map, and describe them. Click HERE
for more information. To volunteer contact [email protected] .
Daniel Dietz
Environmental Conservation Information Specialist
City of Austin
- Wildland Conservation Division
3635 RR 620S, Austin, TX 78738-6807
512-263-6443 cell: 512-731-2517 fax:
512-263-1276
Wildland Conservation volunteer and educational events found at
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/wildland/onlineregistration/ecowebevents.cfm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My daughter and I will be on a weeklong horseback trip at Buffalo Trails Scout
Ranch June 28th thru July 4th outside of Fort Davis.
I found out that there were a couple of caves at the Scout Ranch,
Lower/Middle/Upper Goat Caves.
When we’re not getting saddle sores, I was wondering if there were any other
caves at the Ranch we could check out and if
Anyone here would have any info or descriptions of where they are.
Please contact me offline, if so.
Thanks!
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you're unfamiliar with "Best Friends," you might want to look at the rest of
the site, too. Here's what's going on regarding bats:
http://news.bestfriends.org/index.cfm?page=news&fps=1&mode=entry&entry=E98B28FF-9E77-6406-067878D430223503
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see at least 164 people from Texas have pre-registered for ICS. I
don't think
they are all cavers. Below is the list. Did I leave you off, or
anyone you know
from Texas that has pre-registered ?
( Disclaimer: Some of these cavers may claim out of state grottos,
but I think they
all live in Texas or claim to be from Texas, or something like that. )
Is the number 164 more than the 94 Convention ? It has to be some kind
of record for a caving event. Right ?
1. Ann Scott
2. Carl Kunath
3. Heather Beatty
4. Rob Bisset
5. Joseph Mitchell
6. Mike Walsh
7. Chad Norris
8. Corinne Wong
9. Andy Gluesenkamp
10. Ron Ralph
11. James Cokendolpher
12. Ronald Fieseler
13. John Sharp
14. Ali Chowdhury
15. Glenn Longley
16. Ernest Lundelius
17. Brian Cowan
18. Gerry Atkinson
19. Meliene Perry
20. Melynn Conway
21. Janice Campbell
22. Paul Unger
23. Lee Jay Graves
24. Tom Byrd
25. Lilly Byrd
26. Stacy Lake
27. Kevin Ferguson
28. Cory Evans
29. Stephanie Saldana
30. April Hoh
31. Andrew Gorton
32. Weimin Feng
33. Logan McNatt
34. Alan Dutton
35. John Chelf
36. Charles Goldsmith
37. Lyndon Tiu
38. Don Formanek
39. Sid Formanek
40. Mallory Mayeux
41. Randall Reinertson
42. Julia Germany
43. Don Arburn
44. Melissa Cicherski
45. Michael Cicherski
46. Joe Ranzau
47. Jon Cradit
48. Bob Cowell
49. Rick Corbell
50. Evelynn Mitchell
51. Marvin Miller
52. Sarah Miller
53. Christin Miller
54. Bettie Thoene
55. Kurt Menking
56. Mimi Jasek
57. Micheal Harris
58. Carl Ponebshek
59. James Jasek
60. Rebecca O'Daniel-Hutchins
61. Sue Schindel
62. Paul Bryant
63. Tom Florer
64. Sara Ranzau
65. Aspen Schindel
66. Michelle Bryant
67. George Veni
68. Jacqui Thomas
69. Bill Bentley
70. Jose Curras
71. Jessica Stevenson
72. Chad Fenner
73. Katie Arens
74. Bill Russell
75. David Ochel
76. Denise Prendergast
77. Dale Barnard
78. Pete Strickland
79. Colin Strickland
80. Jocelyn Hooper
81. Orion Knox
82. Jan Knox
83. Matt Zappitello
84. Melanie Alspaugh
85. Bob "Rune" Burnett
86. Susan Souby
87. Devra Heyer
88. Rod Goke
89. Tom Summers
90. Steve Johnson
91. Wes Schumacher
92. Aimee Beveridge
93. Ronald Green
94. Joshua Kenney
95. James Prikryl
96. Geary Schindel
97. Walt Olenick
98. Rae Nadler-Olenick
99. Eric James
100. Joe Datri
101. Ernie Garza
102. Sandi Calhoun
103. Brian Vauter
104. Andy Thompson
105. Alex Benavente ( ? )
106. Andy Grubbs
107. Ronald Rutherford
108. Grace Borengasser
109. Vivian Loftin
110. Steve Bryant
111. Allan Cobb
112. Linda Palit
113. Keith Goggin
114. Lisa Goggin
115. Don Broussard
116. Bill Mixon
117. Peter Sprouse
118. Jean Krejca
119. John Moses ( plus 5 family members )
120. Bill Steele
121. Arron Wertheim
122. Becky Jones
123. Gill Ediger
124. Annalisa Peace ( ? )
125. Tom Hayes ( ? )
126. Kevin Stafford
127. Paul Fushille ( ? )
128. Kathleen O'Connor ( ? )
129. Sarah Zappitello
130. David McKenzie
131. Jim Kennedy
132. Gary Marcus ( ? )
133. Glenn Longley
134. Michael Harris
135. Pete Lindsley
136. Karen Lindsley
137. Don Cooper
138. David Froehlich ( ? )
139. Blake Harrison
140. Brian Cowan
141. Liza Colucci
142. Mercy Raines ( + 2 kids )
143. Terry Raines
144. Rob Myers ( ? )
145. Jay Jorden
146. Julie Jenkins
147. Graham Schindel
148. Mark Sanders ( ? )
149. Lisa O'Donnell ( ? )
150. John Chenoweth ( ? )
151. Xueming Xu
152. Emma Gomez
153. Robin Gary
154. Bill Rupley
155. Brad Wuest
156. Travis Wuest
157. Joye Wuest
158. Weimin Feng
159. Gary Franklin
160. Barbe Barker
161. Ed Alexander
162. Miriam Alexander
163. Sawyer Cradit ( ? )
164. Weston Cradit ( ? )
Note:
This info came off the ICS web-site, but since cavers only list the
acronym of their organization;
I had to compile this list by hand.
The ( ? ) just means I could not tell for sure.
Anyone is welcome to put this list in alphabetical order or any other
order that would
be useful for the event.
My name isn't on the list, but I hope to be there. If you did not
pre-register,
feel free to post something to let everybody know that you plan to be there.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
