texascavers Digest 10 Feb 2009 13:50:55 -0000 Issue 708
Topics (messages 10135 through 10160):
TSS work session
10135 by: Ron Ralph
THANKS! Texas Cavers --TSA Land Fund
10136 by: Linda Palit
10137 by: Fritz Holt
Re: bracken photos
10138 by: Geary Schindel
Mexico Advice
10139 by: Joe Ranzau
10144 by: Minton, Mark
10145 by: Joe Ranzau
10146 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
10147 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
10148 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
10152 by: Linda Palit
10155 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
10156 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
Mars Pit analysis
10140 by: CaverArch
Re: Gunao Gathering breaks all records!
10141 by: Matt Turner
journey to the center of the world
10142 by: Thomas Moore
Deep & Punkin
10143 by: Wayne Hutchinson
Re: Palmito
10149 by: Jim Kennedy
10150 by: Minton, Mark
10153 by: Jim Kennedy
10157 by: Nico Escamilla
Longhorn Cavern dig and thru trip 02/07/09
10151 by: wwildchild.aol.com
Re: Loghorn Cavern?
10154 by: Don Arburn
10158 by: wwildchild.aol.com
Re: Mexico Advice - Precipicio
10159 by: Charles Fromen
Re: Longhorn Cavern dig and the next TC
10160 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Cavers,
There is a scheduled second Wednesday work session of the Texas
Speleological Survey February 11th at the JJ Pickle Research Center on
Burnet Road north of highway 183. We will be taking photos of the place for
the PowerPoint presentation for ICS and could use some models. We will file
exchange copies of newsletters from all over the country and continue to
update electronic files and clean up digital maps. Come by and see if you
would like to organize one of our cave rich counties. If you attend, you
will be able to work on your own projects as well. The door will be open at
5:00 p.m. and stay open till we adjourn.
The TSS office phone is 475-8802 if you get lost or stopped by the guard.
Remember it is best to arrive before 6:00 pm, or the gate guards might not
let you in! If you have questions or problems, please contact me at
[email protected] or call my cell phone (512.797.3817) or go to
http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/tsscalendar.htm for additional
information.
Ron Ralph
Cell: 797-3817
Map to the place is at: http://www.utexas.edu/maps/prc/ On PRC map 2 ("NW
Area"), 18-A is the little building just above the "ra" in "Granberry". Park
to the south in the PETEX lot across the street (Read Granberry Trail) from
building 18-A
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TCMA gratefully acknowledges the receipt of the TSA land fund, $7855.38! We
will significantly reduce what is left on the Deep and Punkin Mortgage, and
intend to pay it off by the Fall. TSA and Texas Cavers have made a
significant contribution to making that possible!
Times are hard, but we accumulate money and pay down the mortgage a little
at a time, and as we near the goal, all contributions are helpful! As we
pay off Deep and Punkin, we have that property for collateral, and are still
looking for more caves! Keep your eyes open and let us know if you find
anything that might be appropriate. Often the property is too large and we
cannot buy the entire lot, or get the owners to divide, but eventually we
will find that next great property.
Sincere Thanks to Texas Cavers for their support and contributions,
TCMA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Linda,
We appreciate the job that you do on behalf of caving and cavers in our
beautiful state.
What do the board members of TCMA and TSA think about a joint effort to locate
and negotiate the purchase of an appropriate, centrally located Hill Country
property that would be suitable as a permanent location for most if not all
caver related events? This may not be an easy task but a combined effort by all
would benefit Texas cavers in the future. I assume that whatever efforts toward
this end that are currently in progress will be discussed. While Punkin and
Deep are beautiful and spacious areas (which lack water for recreational
purposes), it is not conveniently located for many cavers and has no nearby
facilities for necessities.
Fritz
________________________________
From: Linda Palit [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:18 AM
To: 'TEXAS CAVERS'
Subject: [Texascavers] THANKS! Texas Cavers --TSA Land Fund
TCMA gratefully acknowledges the receipt of the TSA land fund, $7855.38! We
will significantly reduce what is left on the Deep and Punkin Mortgage, and
intend to pay it off by the Fall. TSA and Texas Cavers have made a significant
contribution to making that possible!
Times are hard, but we accumulate money and pay down the mortgage a little at a
time, and as we near the goal, all contributions are helpful! As we pay off
Deep and Punkin, we have that property for collateral, and are still looking
for more caves! Keep your eyes open and let us know if you find anything that
might be appropriate. Often the property is too large and we cannot buy the
entire lot, or get the owners to divide, but eventually we will find that next
great property.
Sincere Thanks to Texas Cavers for their support and contributions,
TCMA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a link to Mike Breiding's web page showing some photos of the
guano collection process and a little natural history on the site. Mike
is an old friend of mine visiting from Morgantown, West Virginia (and
former WV and Ky caver) and is traveling around Texas for a few weeks.
Matter of fact, he may be looking for some floor space in west central
Texas as he travels about.
Geary
Subject: bracken photos
See:
http://epicroadtrips.us/2009/texas/week1/week3_day16_sunday08feb2009/
--
Let me recommend the best medicine in the world:
a long journey, at a mild season,
through a pleasant country, in easy stages.
- James Madison
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone driven between Candela and Monclova recently? Looking at a trip
to the area and wanting to cross at Columbia and hit Saltillo and Cuatro
Cienegas and then circle back to Candela from Monclova to save time...
Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia is on
the list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is still closed as of
Friday when I called the Ancira.
Thanks in advance,
Joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Ranzau said:
>Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia is on the
>list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is still closed as of
>Friday when I called the Ancira.
Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's a
surprise to me. If you're interested in caves near Bustamante, you can't go
wrong with Precipicio. Lots more exciting than Bustamante, and with a room
nearly as large and well decorated at the bottom. You do hve to carry ropes
and water, though. ;-)
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Something about a rock slide on the road to the upper parking lot.
Been many months and I keep hearing anytime now when I call.
Doesn't sound like many people hike up to justify opening it.
Joe
[email protected]
Sent while mobile
On Feb 9, 2009, at 7:41 PM, "Minton, Mark" <[email protected]> wrote:
Joe Ranzau said:
Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia
is on the list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is
still closed as of Friday when I called the Ancira.
Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's
a surprise to me. If you're interested in caves near Bustamante,
you can't go wrong with Precipicio. Lots more exciting than
Bustamante, and with a room nearly as large and well decorated at
the bottom. You do hve to carry ropes and water, though. ;-)
Mark Minton
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Boy, do I ever agree! I love Precipicio and have done it many times. It on my
list of my top 10 favorite caves.
Bill
---- "Minton wrote:
> Joe Ranzau said:
>
> >Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia is on
> >the list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is still closed as of
> >Friday when I called the Ancira.
>
> Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's a
> surprise to me. If you're interested in caves near Bustamante, you can't go
> wrong with Precipicio. Lots more exciting than Bustamante, and with a room
> nearly as large and well decorated at the bottom. You do hve to carry ropes
> and water, though. ;-)
>
> Mark Minton
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Boy, do I ever agree! I love Precipicio and have done it many times. It on my
list of my top 10 favorite caves.
Bill
---- "Minton wrote:
> Joe Ranzau said:
>
> >Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia is on
> >the list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is still closed as of
> >Friday when I called the Ancira.
>
> Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's a
> surprise to me. If you're interested in caves near Bustamante, you can't go
> wrong with Precipicio. Lots more exciting than Bustamante, and with a room
> nearly as large and well decorated at the bottom. You do hve to carry ropes
> and water, though. ;-)
>
> Mark Minton
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Boy, do I ever agree! I love Precipicio and have done it many times. It on my
list of my top 10 favorite caves.
Bill
---- "Minton wrote:
> Joe Ranzau said:
>
> >Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia is on
> >the list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is still closed as of
> >Friday when I called the Ancira.
>
> Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's a
> surprise to me. If you're interested in caves near Bustamante, you can't go
> wrong with Precipicio. Lots more exciting than Bustamante, and with a room
> nearly as large and well decorated at the bottom. You do hve to carry ropes
> and water, though. ;-)
>
> Mark Minton
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anybody been to Precipicio of late? It has been a few years. Guess
I'll not get there this year, but next fall sounds good... Any updates on
the trip?
-----Original Message-----
From: Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:42 PM
To: Joe Ranzau; [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Mexico Advice
Joe Ranzau said:
>Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia is on
the list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is still closed as of
Friday when I called the Ancira.
Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's a
surprise to me. If you're interested in caves near Bustamante, you can't go
wrong with Precipicio. Lots more exciting than Bustamante, and with a room
nearly as large and well decorated at the bottom. You do hve to carry ropes
and water, though. ;-)
Mark Minton
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We stopped in the canyon and looked closely at the route up to Precipicio early
last month. All looks the same. One thing though, given how many people go into
the canyon these days, I recommend that someone remain with the vehicles and
make sure no one tampers with them.
Bill
---- Linda Palit <[email protected]> wrote:
> Has anybody been to Precipicio of late? It has been a few years. Guess
> I'll not get there this year, but next fall sounds good... Any updates on
> the trip?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:42 PM
> To: Joe Ranzau; [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Mexico Advice
>
> Joe Ranzau said:
>
> >Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia is on
> the list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is still closed as of
> Friday when I called the Ancira.
>
> Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's a
> surprise to me. If you're interested in caves near Bustamante, you can't go
> wrong with Precipicio. Lots more exciting than Bustamante, and with a room
> nearly as large and well decorated at the bottom. You do hve to carry ropes
> and water, though. ;-)
>
> Mark Minton
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We stopped in the canyon and looked closely at the route up to Precipicio early
last month. All looks the same. One thing though, given how many people go into
the canyon these days, I recommend that someone remain with the vehicles and
make sure no one tampers with them.
Bill
---- Linda Palit <[email protected]> wrote:
> Has anybody been to Precipicio of late? It has been a few years. Guess
> I'll not get there this year, but next fall sounds good... Any updates on
> the trip?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:42 PM
> To: Joe Ranzau; [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Mexico Advice
>
> Joe Ranzau said:
>
> >Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia is on
> the list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is still closed as of
> Friday when I called the Ancira.
>
> Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's a
> surprise to me. If you're interested in caves near Bustamante, you can't go
> wrong with Precipicio. Lots more exciting than Bustamante, and with a room
> nearly as large and well decorated at the bottom. You do hve to carry ropes
> and water, though. ;-)
>
> Mark Minton
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have to forward this very informative post on one of the Mars pits, as posted
to TAG-NET by Bill Deane. It is outstanding for the analytical content (however
brief) and references, as well as the calculation of the depth of the pit at
178 meters, or 584 ft..
Deep Pit on Mars
By: Bill Deane (Knoxville, Tennessee)
[email protected]
NASA has released a high resolution image of one of the deep pits that
were recently discovered on Mars.
http://www.psi.edu/pgwg/images/feb09image.html
Quoting from the web site:
"From the shadow of the rim cast onto the wall of the pit we can
calculate that the pit is at least 178 meters (584 feet) deep and 150 x
157 meters (492 x 515 feet) across. Cushing et al. (2008) have stretched
the data to show large boulders on the pit floor. Mass wasting/slope
retreat acts to widen and degrade pit craters over time, decreasing
their depth:width ratios. The high aspect ratio of this feature may
point to more recent collapse (Cushing et al, 2008)."
Bill Deane NSS 9591F
Roger G. Moore,
GHG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would like to thank Jim for setting up the Gathering. It's something he does
by choice and i have to say it is very appreciated. I mean if nothing else it
was fun to see everyone and meet some new people. It was another nice bonus
that we got rain that same day, as I was able to spread guano on my lawn and
under my bushes just in time for it to get nicely soaked into the ground.
Hoping for more rain,Matt Turner
PS. I think I still smell guano.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it." - Aristotle
"Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do
that."- Norman Vincent Peale
________________________________
From: Jim Kennedy <[email protected]>
To: TexasCavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2009 6:55:23 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Gunao Gathering breaks all records!
I just finished putting away my gear from today's event, the 10th Annual Guano
Gathering. I must say, there are a HECK of a lot of folks out there who want
bat guano! This year we smashed several previous records, including number of
participants (65) and amount of guano removed (3.5 tons). And all that in only
2 hours of work! Huge thanks go out to all who participated, including those
who dragged their relatives and neighbors along. A very special recognition
goes out to Wes Schumacher, Sandi Calhoun, and Matt Turner, who were at the
sharp end of the line, filling buckets at a feverish pace! I have some photos
I took during the day, but I would appreciate it if anyone else who took
photos would email me copies for my files. Mark Alman would probably
appreciate someone to write up the experience for The TEXAS CAVER, so I figure
I better put in a plug before he does! Afterwards, 16 of us did the
traditional Italian feast at
Capparellis. For those of you who missed it, too bad! Now you have to wait
another whole year. ;-) Guano: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
Crash, Guanomeister
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
watch allan cobb descend to the "center of the world" friday night 8pm
central on history international channel.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see rumors of a D&P trip this coming weekend. Who has details?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The government is improving and extending the road to the cave. The
tunnel into the cave is now finished. There are no tours given while
the construction is going on.
-- Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:42 PM
To: Joe Ranzau; [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Mexico Advice
Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's a
surprise to me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
>The government is improving and extending the road to the cave. The tunnel
>into the cave is now finished. There are no tours given while the
>construction is going on.
Does that mean that the cave is closed to cavers as well? We don't need
no stinkin' tours...
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've heard that cavers have been able to get in, with the appropriate "tip".
________________________________
From: Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 9:09 PM
To: Jim Kennedy; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Palmito
Does that mean that the cave is closed to cavers as well? We don't need no
stinkin' tours...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Besides the tip you have to know who to talk to, Rogelio the tour guide
would be your man in this case, keywords when talking to him are (obviously
in spanish) i was part of the cave cleaning effort, I'm friends with Orion
Knox, I'm friends with Tom Iliffe from Texas A&M, and so on.. or if you
happen to be driving through Sabinas Hidalgo you can pick yours truly up and
I'll talk my way into the cave as I have done before.
Nico
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Jim Kennedy <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've heard that cavers have been able to get in, with the appropriate
> "tip".
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Mon 2/9/2009 9:09 PM
> *To:* Jim Kennedy; [email protected]
> *Subject:* RE: Palmito
>
> Does that mean that the cave is closed to cavers as well? We don't need
> no stinkin' tours...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Below is a link to the Loghorn Cave dig project this past weekend to clear out
one passage that had become silted up and to push a lead that is more
accessible due to the low water.? My waterproof camera is overexposing all of
the pics so I apologize for the quality I tweaked most of them to get rid of
the bright glares.
Puppy
=:-)
You do not have to log into kodak gallery, just click on the main pic.
http://tinyurl.com/bg7qf9
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Loghorn Cave?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Loghorn Cave?
Nope, the sign says Longhorn Cavern, and the TSS has it listed as Longhorn
Cavern, so I'm going to say cavern and you can say cave.
Puppy
=:-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Arburn <[email protected]>
Cc: Texas Cavers List <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 9:44 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Loghorn Cavern?
Loghorn Cave?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Linda Palit
I went to Precipicio 2007-11 with my son Carl along with two of his friends.
I took Carl up to the cave when he was 12 years old for the first time(1991).
I photographed all the pages in the register book at the bottom of the first
drop. It was interesting to note that no US caver had been to the cave in two
years (2005-11). The register book needs to be replaced since it is now full.
The trip up the mountain seems unchanged. We did have to pay $15pesos to camp
in the Canon Ojo De Agua campground. They actually have bathrooms there now.
It was a good trip but as always it is best taken during the winter! On our
trip we made the climb just after a strong cold front.
Charles Fromen
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Linda Palit <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Linda Palit <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Mexico Advice
To: "'Minton, Mark'" <[email protected]>, "'Joe Ranzau'" <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:28 PM
Has anybody been to Precipicio of late? It has been a few years. Guess
I'll not get there this year, but next fall sounds good... Any updates on
the trip?
-----Original Message-----
From: Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:42 PM
To: Joe Ranzau; [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Mexico Advice
Joe Ranzau said:
>Also any caving input for the area is appreciated, Grutas de Garcia is on
the list but wild caves would be nice too. Bustamante is still closed as of
Friday when I called the Ancira.
Why is Palmito closed? Sorry if I missed something, but that's a
surprise to me. If you're interested in caves near Bustamante, you
can't go
wrong with Precipicio. Lots more exciting than Bustamante, and with a room
nearly as large and well decorated at the bottom. You do hve to carry ropes
and water, though. ;-)
Mark Minton
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great photos, Puppy, and thanks for taking them!
If you or your kids, or any of the Aggie or Houston cavers, or any of the other
attendees would like to submit a trip report, please do so ASAP, as I would
like to get the TC to the printer later this week.
I am planning on doing a write up on "Hell's Half Mile" or "Hell's Hog Wallow",
but if anyone wants to do a write up on the lead some found, the thru trip, or
the dig in the morning, please do so.
If you're not signed up for the Members Only Area on the TSA website or, worse
yet, not a TSA member (gasp!)
please consider rectifying this immediately.
This is going to be a great issue with a LOAD of pics.
If you're signed up for the Members Area, you will be able to view the next
issue in full color and at least a week or, more likely, 10 days, before anyone
else receives the B & W snail mail version.
Thanks!
Mark
________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 9:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Longhorn Cavern dig and thru trip 02/07/09
Below is a link to the Longhorn Cave dig project this past weekend to clear out
one passage that had become silted up and to push a lead that is more
accessible due to the low water. My waterproof camera is overexposing all of
the pics so I apologize for the quality I tweaked most of them to get rid of
the bright glares.
Puppy
=:-)
You do not have to log into kodak gallery, just click on the main pic.
http://tinyurl.com/bg7qf9
________________________________
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