texascavers Digest 23 Feb 2009 05:46:33 -0000 Issue 714
Topics (messages 10212 through 10227):
Re: Kinda hurts
10212 by: Sheryl Rieck
Re: Kinda hurts my soul
10213 by: John P. Brooks
10215 by: bcow911.satx.rr.com
10216 by: Ron Miller
Guano Gathering
10214 by: Joe Datri
Keith Huess - Need your email address. Please contact me off-list.
10217 by: Lyndon Tiu
Christi Bennett - Need your email address. Please contact me off-list.
10218 by: Lyndon Tiu
Re: [greater_houston_grotto] Cool (on-campus/non-caving) volunteer
opportunities at the ICS
10219 by: germanyj.aol.com
10220 by: Lyndon Tiu
15th ICS - These 17 Caves Need Trip Leaders
10221 by: germanyj.aol.com
The TSA Members Area...
10222 by: Mark Alman
Re: 15th ICS - Contact Info for Kickapoo Volunteers
10223 by: Lyndon Tiu
10224 by: Lyndon Tiu
Photos needed
10225 by: Aimee Beveridge
Center of the Caving Universe
10226 by: Mixon Bill
10227 by: Gary McDaniel
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
It is on Yahoo News this morning. And, you are right. It did say it was an
old mine in the article, but late they call it a cave.
Sheryl
-----Original Message-----
From: Gill Ediger [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Kinda hurts
At 05:37 PM 2/20/2009, [email protected] wrote:
>That does not look like a natural cave to me. Instead, it looks like
>a limestone quarry,
I think the original article said it was a sand stone quarry/mine.
--Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---
Excuse me for sounding like a sour puss....but it is a quarry.....AND WHY
isn¹t anyone¹s ³soul hurting² for the caves that have been and are being
destroyed by urban sprawl in Central Texas? In my humble opinion; building
houses, Walmarts, hotels, strip centers AND patronizing those business is a
much greater sin against nature......and yet I know cavers and other
environmentalist types who love to live out in those brushy hills...and buy
all their cheap plastic stuff at Walmart....and love to go for a Saturday
drive in the ³country² on freeways that trench a horrid scar across our
beautiful karst.... many of us add our little piece of this damage everyday
through our daily actions.
It ³hurts my soul² that I live this way...and have little choice in the
matter.
To complain about a house in a quarry, that some call a cave, seems to me a
bit inauthentic...and it covers a pain that we all feel when we consider the
damage being done all around us. If this type of thing offends us, we should
be called to action. We should be lobbying for ³urban growth² boundaries for
out cities to protect the remaining hill country, before it ALL becomes
covered with parking lots and fry pits and Walmarts and Big Box retailers.
We should being saying enough to the everyday excessive use of automobiles
AND insist that development be SMART. We should support initatives that
create walkable, more dense cities that have and support mass transit. I
could go on.....but will not. But I do hope that we can all see the ³cancer²
that we are creating....if ones desire is to save caves; one might start by
looking at the real problem....and that is how we use our fragile land
everyday.
And excuse me if I sound brash...I woke up with some kind of stomach crud
this morning...jb
On 2/20/09 5:10 PM, "Louise Power" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why would anybody want to ruin a perfectly good cave with a house? What family
> of 5 needs 17000 sq ft? What happened to all the cave formations? Where does
> their waste go? Does it pollute the ground water? It looks cool, but degrades
> the whole area!
>
> I was appalled.
>
> When I was in what was then called Yugoslavia, there were people in the Karst
> Mountains living in caves out of necessity, not necessarily because it was
> cool. They also penned up their livestock right there in the entrance. (Where
> is Glade room freshener when you need it?)
>
> Louise
>
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:31:07 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Texascavers] Kinda hurts my soul
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330306913609&ssPageName=ADM
> E:B:EF:US:1123
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330306913609&ssPag
> eName=ADME:B:EF:US:1123>
>
> Just in case someone wants a cave home in missouri. I'm sure it had low energy
> bills.
>
>
> Matt Turner
>
>
> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without
> accepting it." - Aristotle
>
>
> "Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do
> that."- Norman Vincent Peale
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a quick note. I agree with you Bill. I know of several limestone quarry
mines that have homes built in the face in one case allied chem has a complete
house/office built in one in southern Ilinois opposite missouri. There are a
few homes built in the cliff undercuts as well
---- [email protected] wrote:
> I thought I posted this remark earlier today, but I don't see that it
> succeeded. That does not look like a natural cave to me. Instead, it looks
> like a limestone quarry, like the one near Milltown, Indiana where a party
> was held at the NSS convention a couple of years ago.
>
> Bill
>
>
> ---- Louise Power <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Why would anybody want to ruin a perfectly good cave with a house? What
> > family of 5 needs 17000 sq ft? What happened to all the cave formations?
> > Where does their waste go? Does it pollute the ground water? It looks cool,
> > but degrades the whole area!
> >
> >
> >
> > I was appalled.
> >
> >
> >
> > When I was in what was then called Yugoslavia, there were people in the
> > Karst Mountains living in caves out of necessity, not necessarily because
> > it was cool. They also penned up their livestock right there in the
> > entrance. (Where is Glade room freshener when you need it?)
> >
> >
> > Louise
> >
> >
> > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:31:07 -0800
> > From: [email protected]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [Texascavers] Kinda hurts my soul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330306913609&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1123
> >
> >
> > Just in case someone wants a cave home in missouri. I'm sure it had low
> > energy bills.
> >
> >
> > Matt Turner
> >
> >
> >
> > "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
> > without accepting it." - Aristotle
> >
> >
> > "Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can
> > do that."- Norman Vincent Peale
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Caves in general are managed much better today than in the past through the
efforts of the NSS and local caving organizations as well as other
environmental issues. Native Americans have been concerned about growth and
expansion since Europeans arrived. It is not likely to stop.
Ron
________________________________
From: John P. Brooks <[email protected]>
To: Louise Power <[email protected]>; Matt Turner <[email protected]>;
Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 9:30:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Kinda hurts my soul
Re: [<SPAN id="misspell-2" class="mark" >Texascavers</SPAN>] Kinda hurts my
soul Excuse me for sounding like a sour puss....but it is a quarry.....AND WHY
isn’t anyone’s “soul hurting” for the caves that have been and are being
destroyed by urban sprawl in Central Texas? In my humble opinion; building
houses, Walmarts, hotels, strip centers AND patronizing those business is a
much greater sin against nature......and yet I know cavers and other
environmentalist types who love to live out in those brushy hills...and buy all
their cheap plastic stuff at Walmart....and love to go for a Saturday drive in
the “country” on freeways that trench a horrid scar across our beautiful
karst.... many of us add our little piece of this damage everyday through our
daily actions.
It “hurts my soul” that I live this way...and have little choice in the matter.
To complain about a house in a quarry, that some call a cave, seems to me a bit
inauthentic...and it covers a pain that we all feel when we consider the damage
being done all around us. If this type of thing offends us, we should be called
to action. We should be lobbying for “urban growth” boundaries for out cities
to protect the remaining hill country, before it ALL becomes covered with
parking lots and fry pits and Walmarts and Big Box retailers. We should being
saying enough to the everyday excessive use of automobiles AND insist that
development be SMART. We should support initatives that create walkable, more
dense cities that have and support mass transit. I could go on.....but will
not. But I do hope that we can all see the “cancer” that we are creating....if
ones desire is to save caves; one might start by looking at the real
problem....and that is how we use our fragile land everyday.
And excuse me if I sound brash...I woke up with some kind of stomach crud this
morning...jb
On 2/20/09 5:10 PM, "Louise Power" <[email protected]> wrote:
Why would anybody want to ruin a perfectly good cave with a house? What family
of 5 needs 17000 sq ft? What happened to all the cave formations? Where does
their waste go? Does it pollute the ground water? It looks cool, but degrades
the whole area!
I was appalled.
When I was in what was then called Yugoslavia, there were people in the Karst
Mountains living in caves out of necessity, not necessarily because it was
cool. They also penned up their livestock right there in the entrance. (Where
is Glade room freshener when you need it?)
Louise
________________________________
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:31:07 -0800
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Kinda hurts my soul
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330306913609&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1123
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330306913609&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1123>
Just in case someone wants a cave home in missouri. I'm sure it had low energy
bills.
Matt Turner
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it." - Aristotle
"Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do
that."- Norman Vincent Peale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey everyone,
I shot some video of the Guano Gathering and thought some of you might
want to see it.
You can check it out by following this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zGudhw6Ns
-Joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Keith Huess - Need your email address. Please contact me off-list.
--
Lyndon Tiu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christi Bennett - Need your email address. Please contact me off-list.
--
Lyndon Tiu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Houston Grotto is gearing
up to bring a bunch of volunteers to the ICS. Below is an email that
was sent out listing non-caving volunteer opportunities.
Let this be the beginning of a contest to see how many grottos will be
represented with ICS volunteers!
julia
-----Original Message-----
From: Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 9:50 am
Subject: [greater_houston_grotto] Cool (on-campus/non-caving) volunteer
opportunities at the ICS
Hi guys,
Please find below a list of "On-Campus/Non-Caving" related volunteer
opportunities at the ICS. I will send the list of "Off-Campus/Caving"
opportunities in a separate email.
If you wish to help-out, please contact the person whose name and email
appears below each item. Please do so ASAP. They need your help.
Thank you!
-----------------------------------------------------
1) Facilities Coordinator
Contact: Jon Cradit
[email protected]
All sorts of jobs to get the facilities in order, keep them running
smoothly and clean up afterwards.
2) Print Salon Coordinator
Contact: Ann Bosted
[email protected]
Collect the NSS photo stands from the Florida convention store, then
deliver to the ICS in Kerrville assemble stands 3 days prior to opening
so prints can be hung for judging and for final display build more
stands at the ICS, materials provided.
This job could be handled by one volunteer or divided up among several.
The stands can be knocked down to sheets measuring about 4'x8', with
2"x2" posts for the legs. They could fit in the back of a large pick-up
or go in a trailer.
3) Audio-Visual Coordinator
Contact: Rick Corbell
[email protected]
Two to three folks to set up band equipment before the Wednesday night
party (chance to hang with the Terminal Syphons!).
Three to four folks who are familiar with projectors and presentations
to help us monitor the sessions, debug equipment malfunctions (be a hero
that saves the presentation) possible need for help setting up audio for
the banquets.
4) ICS Vendor and Exhibits Coordinator
Contact: Emily Davis
[email protected]
Volunteer(s) needed to help set up and check in on vendors. all day
prior to Congress volunteer(s) to touch base with vendors during the
week, approx. 1 hour per day for extra credit in Heaven, the same person
may apply for both tasks!
5) NSS and ICS Banquet Volunteers and Food Tasters
Contact: Linda Palit
[email protected]
NSS Banquet 2-3 hours that Friday, decorating, opening wine!
ICS Banquet 2-3 hours that Saturday, decorating and just helping out
6) Judges for SpeleOlympics
Contact: Bill Stephens
[email protected]
Timer/Judge for Cable Ladder Competition.
Timer/Judge for Obstacle Course Competition.
7) Congress Services
Contact: Joe Ranzau
[email protected]
Liaison with travel agent. Liaison with hotel staff. These volunteers
will simply stay in touch with travel agent and hotel staff before
during and after the Congress to make sure that everything is running
smoothly. Joe is available to help as needed.
8) Drivers
Contact: Don Arburn
[email protected]
Drivers, 25 years or older, with a valid standard drivers license for 15
passenger vans trips throughout the ICS.
9) Translations Committee
Contact: Sherry Graham
[email protected]
Bi or Multi Linguists sought to prepare documents for the website and
prior to ICS. Super friendly multi linguists to volunteer to wear tags
during ICS identifying which language(s) you speak and helping visitors
with questions in that language.
10) Information Desk Coordinator.
Contact: George Veni
[email protected]
This person will recruit a team to staff an information desk near ICS
registration to provide information on the ICS, local sights, and
amenities. The coordinator need not be from Texas, as long a good,
knowledgeable (or trainable!) crew is recruited.
11) SpeleoArt Exhibition
Contact: Carolina Shrewsbury
[email protected]
Volunteers to docent the Salon and Exhibition displays in the Library.
Someone needed for 2 hour shifts Mon to Fri:
8:30-10am
10-12am
12-1pm
1-3pm
3-5pm
A perfect air conditioned break!
--
Lyndon Tiu
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[email protected] wrote:
Let this be the beginning of a contest to see how many grottos will be
represented with ICS volunteers!
We need to clone a few dozen George-Pauls.
--
Lyndon Tiu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Fellow Cavers:
Have you ever been to one of these Texas caves??
Auld
Caves
Colorado Bend
Deep/Punkin
Devil's Sinkhole
Echo River
Elmo Wilson
Groundhog?
Honey Creek
Kickapoo
Logan Cave
Longhorn
Palace?
Powells
Robber Baron
Secret
Station C
Valdina Farms
Do you want to go to one of these caves?
Maybe your Grotto would like to have a group trip to one of these caves?
Then the International Congress of Speleology wants YOU to volunteer to
lead or help lead at least one field trip to the cave of your choice!
Maps are available and pre-ICS trips are on-going to make sure the caves are
ready for the big event.
Please choose from this list of 17 caves and let Travis Scott know
which one(s) you want to volunteer to lead/co-lead a trip.? Travis can be
reached via email: [email protected]
REMEMBER: If you volunteer to lead/co-lead a cave trip, you do not have to pay
for attending that field trip!
Looking forward to seeing you underground during the 15th ICS (19-26 July).
Julia Germany
Trip Leader
Kickapoo Caverns
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
keeps growing and growing and growing!
We are now approaching 30% of membership having registered.
Those there can now enjoy the latest TEXAS CAVER, as well as the last two years
and a couple of back issues.
If you haven't joined, either as a TSA Member or joined the Online Members
area, what are you waiting for?
Go to www.cavetexas.org and see what you've been missing.
If you are a member and have already signed up in the Online Members area, I
need for you to select how you want your TC.
Update your profile and look at the following:
How I wish to receive the Texas Caver?: Select: Mail or Online
Never fear if you select "Mail".
You can still view the current and past issues online, although, we sure would
appreciate it if you would select "Online".
This area has grown quickly in just over a month and I'm surprised at how
successful it has been!
Much of the recognotion needs to go to Butch Fralia for keeping it all cobbled
together, updated, and running so well.
Check it out and join or update today!
Thanks!
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My schedule is flexible and nothing is final. So keep my name on your
list of trip leaders and we can finalize closer to the dates. If in the
next few months, we can get another trip leader for
Fredericksburg/Encjanted Rock, then that will free me up for Kickapoo.
Thanks.
--
Lyndon Tiu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Didn't mean to send this to the whole list. Please ignore.
Lyndon Tiu wrote:
My schedule is flexible and nothing is final. So keep my name on your
list of trip leaders and we can finalize closer to the dates. If in the
next few months, we can get another trip leader for
Fredericksburg/Encjanted Rock, then that will free me up for Kickapoo.
Thanks.
--
Lyndon Tiu
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Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
--
Lyndon Tiu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The staff of Plunge Productions is looking for scanned images for our upcoming
movie "Texas Cavers". Your assistance is so appreciated.
What we need:
Old camp photos
Kirkwood pics
1964, 1979 and 1994 Texas NSS conventions. (PLEASE)
Groad Hollow pics
Older photos of the following cavers:
Bev Shade
Ernie Garza
Gill Ediger
Jean Krejca
Peter Sprouse
Bill Stone
Bill Steele
Pete Strickland
Carl Kunath
William Russell
Logan McNatt
Fofo Gonzales
Gustavo Vela
etc.
hmmm, as we write this we are realizing that it might be easier to ask you if
you would like to send us any cool old photos that you think would be a good
add to a movie about the history of Texas and Mexico cavers.
Send photos via email to Grace Borengasser at [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Austin as the Center of the Caving Universe department:
The National Speleological Society's highest awards to individuals are
the Honorary Membership and the Outstanding Service Award, each of
which is given to one person per year. The NSS Board of Governors
selects the recipient of these awards, and the award conveys life
membership in the society.
Next in status are four awards given to one person or couple per year.
They are selected by the NSS Awards Committee and confirmed by the
BOG. These awards are the Bicking Award for cave exploration
(considered by many cavers to be the highest award), the Conservation
Award, the Science Award, and the Spelean Arts and Letters Award.
Of these awards, cavers currently living in the Austin area have
received:
1 Honorary Membership
1 Outstanding Service Award
2 Bicking Awards
2 Conservation Awards
1 Science Award
1 Arts and Letters Award
Can any other city claim eight or more of these awards?
--Bill Mixon
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Austin got the bickering award?
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Mixon Bill <[email protected]>wrote:
> Austin as the Center of the Caving Universe department:
>
> The National Speleological Society's highest awards to individuals are the
> Honorary Membership and the Outstanding Service Award, each of which is
> given to one person per year. The NSS Board of Governors selects the
> recipient of these awards, and the award conveys life membership in the
> society.
>
> Next in status are four awards given to one person or couple per year. They
> are selected by the NSS Awards Committee and confirmed by the BOG. These
> awards are the Bicking Award for cave exploration (considered by many cavers
> to be the highest award), the Conservation Award, the Science Award, and the
> Spelean Arts and Letters Award.
>
> Of these awards, cavers currently living in the Austin area have received:
>
> 1 Honorary Membership
> 1 Outstanding Service Award
> 2 Bicking Awards
> 2 Conservation Awards
> 1 Science Award
> 1 Arts and Letters Award
>
> Can any other city claim eight or more of these awards?
> --Bill Mixon
> ----------------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: [email protected]
> AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
--
~Gary McDaniel
Grand Junction, CO
--- End Message ---
