texascavers Digest 18 Mar 2009 16:51:19 -0000 Issue 725 Topics (messages 10342 through 10355):
Re: Traval Advisory for Mexico
10342 by: John Brooks
10343 by: Preston Forsythe
10344 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
10345 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
10346 by: Herman Miller
10347 by: S S
10348 by: Preston Forsythe
Re: Travel Advisory for Mexico
10349 by: David Ochel
10350 by: Lyndon Tiu
10351 by: Nico Escamilla
10352 by: Herman Miller
Space shuttle Discovery blasts off with bat stowaway
10353 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
10354 by: Andy Zenker
Re: 15th ICS - Coming early to the ICS?
10355 by: Mixon Bill
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--- Begin Message ---Maybe someone can provide some feedback.....is this more of the "24" style government induced hysteria that we experienced the last 8 years.....or are things really this out of control along the border? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:22 AM, "Geary Schindel" <[email protected]> wrote: The State Department updated their travel advisory for Mexico last month. I’m not sure folks on Texas Cavers have seen this. If you’ll be traveling in Mexico, it might be a good idea to take some of the contact information located at the bottom of the advisory with you. Geary http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3028.html
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--- Begin Message ---Yap, out of control according to all of the news I see and read in the papers. Preston in Outer Browder, KY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Brooks To: Geary Schindel Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Traval Advisory for Mexico Maybe someone can provide some feedback.....is this more of the "24" style government induced hysteria that we experienced the last 8 years.....or are things really this out of control along the border? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:22 AM, "Geary Schindel" <[email protected]> wrote: The State Department updated their travel advisory for Mexico last month. I’m not sure folks on Texas Cavers have seen this. If you’ll be traveling in Mexico, it might be a good idea to take some of the contact information located at the bottom of the advisory with you. Geary http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3028.html
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--- Begin Message ---LEGALIZE IT NOW! But first, read God's Middle Finger. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 [email protected] --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Preston Forsythe <[email protected]> wrote: From: Preston Forsythe <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Traval Advisory for Mexico To: "John Brooks" <[email protected]>, "Geary Schindel" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] List-Post: [email protected] Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 2:17 PM Yap, out of control according to all of the news I see and read in the papers. Preston in Outer Browder, KY ----- Original Message ----- From: John Brooks To: Geary Schindel Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Traval Advisory for Mexico Maybe someone can provide some feedback.....is this more of the "24" style government induced hysteria that we experienced the last 8 years.....or are things really this out of control along the border? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2009, at 11:22 AM, "Geary Schindel" <[email protected]> wrote: The State Department updated their travel advisory for Mexico last month. I’m not sure folks on Texas Cavers have seen this. If you’ll be traveling in Mexico, it might be a good idea to take some of the contact information located at the bottom of the advisory with you. Geary http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3028.html
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Sent from my iPhoneThe State Department updated their travel advisory for Mexico last month. I’m not sure folks on Texas Cavers have seen this. If you’ll be traveling in Mexico, it might be a good idea to take some of the contact information located at the bottom of the advisory with you.
Geary
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--- Begin Message ---I'll offer input in my current line of work the violence has a direct effect at work and what I have been told repeatedly by those who were both from and travelling through Mexico into the United States wont even travel through Ciudad Juarez (the border town with El Paso). Ciudad Juarez is by far the worst though the violence is multi-fronted and is omnipresent throughout Mexico though particularly in the northern states due to there proximity to the United States hence the drug and human smuggling activities which are the root of all of this violence. Of particular concern for those travelling into Mexico is the ZETA gang as they are quite fond of kidnapping and extorting people and afterwards still killing the person after they and there family have paid all the ransom they could. please see the following links below for additional information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War The death toll during 2008 alone was 5,630 killed. making a total of about 7,882 drug cartel related deaths since December 2006.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War#cite_note-80>The extreme violence is jeopardizing foreign investment in Mexico, and the Finance Minister, Agustin Carstens, said that the deteriorating security is reducing gross domestic product annually by 1% in Mexico, Latin America's second-largest economy.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War#cite_note-Bloomberg-81> Feel free to respond off list and I will assist further if I can though I only get limited reports from those I apprehend crossing into the U.S. illegally
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--- Begin Message ---I'm sure this will insite an earful of flaming. One also has to consider the effects of a collapsing economy on the motives of the people who have formerly enjoyed some pretty hefty economic prosperity resulting from the U.S. Housing and Construction boom. WIth the collapse of the demand for new homes this revenue stream has for the most part completely dried up leaving a large population of migrant workers now unemployed in a country with already weak economic resources. I'd expect that the danger to travelers will increase over the next years as their savings become depleted and many of the smaller businesses collapse with the falling demand for goods and services. This will make travelers vulnerable to increased robbery, extortion, and possibly worse in the coming years. It should be noted that in the outgoing CIA directors brief he cited Mexico as one of the two largest threats to our National Security. The increased cartel activity is an indicator of the social unrest that accompanies a failing economy that could potentially spin out of control if not checked. Which is not to say this is going to happen but that it does pose a plausible threat enough so that it has been testified before the Senate Security Council and illicited an unprecedented allocation of Federal and Military resources to addressing this scenario. You may not have noticed the increase in Federal and National Guard presence in the border towns or that the government spent over 40 billion dollars last year on NSA, CIA, and "other" government infrastructure in Texas last year alone. Just food for thought...... List-Post: [email protected] Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:26:15 -0500 From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] Traval Advisory for Mexico I'll offer input in my current line of work the violence has a direct effect at work and what I have been told repeatedly by those who were both from and travelling through Mexico into the United States wont even travel through Ciudad Juarez (the border town with El Paso). Ciudad Juarez is by far the worst though the violence is multi-fronted and is omnipresent throughout Mexico though particularly in the northern states due to there proximity to the United States hence the drug and human smuggling activities which are the root of all of this violence. Of particular concern for those travelling into Mexico is the ZETA gang as they are quite fond of kidnapping and extorting people and afterwards still killing the person after they and there family have paid all the ransom they could. please see the following links below for additional information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War The death toll during 2008 alone was 5,630 killed. making a total of about 7,882 drug cartel related deaths since December 2006. The extreme violence is jeopardizing foreign investment in Mexico, and the Finance Minister, Agustin Carstens, said that the deteriorating security is reducing gross domestic product annually by 1% in Mexico, Latin America's second-largest economy. Feel free to respond off list and I will assist further if I can though I only get limited reports from those I apprehend crossing into the U.S. illegally _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
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--- Begin Message ---Thanks Geary, I printed the contact info and put it my truck glove box. I am actually not worried about the pre-convention field trip to Bustamente and around the outside of Monterrey due to the group size and number of vehicles in convoy, but truthfully Shari has been worried about the deteriorating border towns situation as many of the stories that hit the NYT and TV are worse than horrible. The Columbia Crossing should be no problema, and I am glad we will avoid Laredo. The latest US-Mexico news concerns NAFTA and Mexico trucking across the border so I imagine that developing situation could potentially raise a flag at Colombia where there may be protests (?). Cavingly, Preston ============================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Geary Schindel To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:22 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Traval Advisory for Mexico The State Department updated their travel advisory for Mexico last month. I'm not sure folks on Texas Cavers have seen this. If you'll be traveling in Mexico, it might be a good idea to take some of the contact information located at the bottom of the advisory with you. Geary http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3028.html
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--- Begin Message ---Hi, On Mar 16, 2009, at 10:26 PM, Herman Miller wrote:The death toll during 2008 alone was 5,630 killed. making a total of about 7,882 drug cartel related deaths since December 2006. The extreme violence is jeopardizing foreign investmentWell, are there any statistics regarding how many of those killed, kidnapped, or otherwise subjected to crime other than the usual tourist fraud were foreigners not directly involved in any drug trafficking or related crime, and not looking particularly wealthy, like, for example, cavers who are just passing through a border town, typically during the day?I'm having a hard time being afraid... SCNR, David
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--- Begin Message ---David Ochel wrote:I'm having a hard time being afraid...You can go in and dress and look local, speak local, eat like a local, drive in a vehicle common in the area and blend-in. That way, people are afraid of you, instead of the other way around.-- Lyndon Tiu
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--- Begin Message ---My advice to everyone as a mexican is get your paperwork in order (as in turn in your old vehicle permits so you can get a new one) re fuel and re supply on your side of the border before crossing, fuel's cheaper in TX anyway, get your permit and get across the border town of choice as fast as you can obviously under the limit, you dont wanna get pulled over, once past the border town you'll be relatively safer, I have learned from experience that as long as you dont mess with the bad guys they wont mess with you, dont do anything stupid like picking fights or otherwise try to get the attention, cooperate at all checkpoints dont refuse to be searched (cause you have nothing to hide right?) and dont offer any money at such checkpoints. I'm sure I will remember something else 5 mins after I send this email, but right now those are my recommendations for y'all. Keep in mind that news stations are after all busineses and sensationalism sells. I agree that legalizing would be the way to go, unfortunately it will never happen cause it wouldnt be profitable for our politicians anymore Nico On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]> wrote: > David Ochel wrote: > >> I'm having a hard time being afraid... >> > > You can go in and dress and look local, speak local, eat like a local, > drive in a vehicle common in the area and blend-in. That way, people are > afraid of you, instead of the other way around. > > -- > Lyndon Tiu > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >
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--- Begin Message ---I would also second Nico, and as far as the figures i presented earlier they were the only stats I could find and I know that Ciudad Juarez people are killed both for there affiliations as well as simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Otherwise I'd just have to say that I'm still waiting for Nico to invite me down for some south of the border caving ;) Herman Miller On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Nico Escamilla <[email protected]>wrote: > My advice to everyone as a mexican is get your paperwork in order (as in > turn in your old vehicle permits so you can get a new one) re fuel and re > supply on your side of the border before crossing, fuel's cheaper in TX > anyway, get your permit and get across the border town of choice as fast as > you can obviously under the limit, you dont wanna get pulled over, once past > the border town you'll be relatively safer, I have learned from experience > that as long as you dont mess with the bad guys they wont mess with you, > dont do anything stupid like picking fights or otherwise try to get the > attention, cooperate at all checkpoints dont refuse to be searched (cause > you have nothing to hide right?) and dont offer any money at such > checkpoints. > I'm sure I will remember something else 5 mins after I send this email, but > right now those are my recommendations for y'all. Keep in mind that news > stations are after all busineses and sensationalism sells. > > I agree that legalizing would be the way to go, unfortunately it will never > happen cause it wouldnt be profitable for our politicians anymore > > Nico > > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]> wrote: > >> David Ochel wrote: >> >>> I'm having a hard time being afraid... >>> >> >> You can go in and dress and look local, speak local, eat like a local, >> drive in a vehicle common in the area and blend-in. That way, people are >> afraid of you, instead of the other way around. >> >> -- >> Lyndon Tiu >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >
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--- Begin Message ---http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/03/18/bat.shuttle/index.html
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--- Begin Message ---I guess this bat would not need a heater box. And since when is a bat a rodent? ROCKHUGGER Andy Zenker Texas Caver --- On Wed, 3/18/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [Texascavers] Space shuttle Discovery blasts off with bat stowaway To: "Mailing List" <[email protected]> List-Post: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 7:37 AM http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/03/18/bat.shuttle/index.html
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--- Begin Message ---Forwarded by Bill Mixon: Begin forwarded message: From: ICS 2009 eList <[email protected]> List-Post: [email protected] Date: March 17, 2009 11:47:59 AM CDT To: [email protected] Subject: 15th ICS - Coming early to the ICS? Dear Friends,Yesterday I spoke with the Registration Committee of the 15th International Congress of Speleology (ICS). They said nearly 1,000 people are registered so far! They also said that many of you are planning to arrive on 16 or 17 July. That is OK with us, as long as you remember and understand certain things:* The ICS begins on 19 July. No activities are planned before that date except for registration and to prepare Schreiner University for the ICS.* Free transportation from the San Antonio International Airport to Schreiner University in Kerrville will only be provided on 18 and 19 July as the ICS begins, and 26 and 27 July as the ICS ends. If you arrive at the airport on other days, you will be responsible for arranging your transportation to Kerrville. The ICS Organizing Committee will be occupied preparing for the ICS and many of our assistants won’t be available until the 18th. We will try to help you, but we can’t guarantee assistance at this time.* Registration at the ICS is scheduled to begin on the morning of 18 July. If you arrive before the 18th, we will register you early so you can move into your apartment, dormitory, or campsite, but ask your patience and assistance as we set-up our computers and supplies to make registration possible.We know that many of you are coming early so you can help us set-up the university for the ICS. We will need and greatly appreciate your help in preparing facilities in the campground, unloading trucks with supplies, setting up tables and rooms, etc. We don’t want to discourage anyone from coming early on 16 and 17 July, but we want to make you aware of our limitations on those daysGeorge George Veni, Ph.D. Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology Adjunct Secretary, International Union of Speleology Executive Director, U.S. National Cave and Karst Research Institute ----You have received this message because you are subscribed to the 2009 ICS eList. To unsubscribe, please visit:http://ics2009mail.nfshost.com/pommo/user/ ---------------------------------------------He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton---------------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: [email protected] AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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