texascavers Digest 3 Apr 2009 00:37:21 -0000 Issue 734
Topics (messages 10434 through 10442):
Re-survey of Mammoth Cave
10434 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
10435 by: J. LaRue Thomas
10436 by: Jon Cradit
10437 by: Lyndon Tiu
10438 by: Mallory Mayeux
10439 by: John Brooks
10440 by: Pete Lindsley
10441 by: Andy Gluesenkamp
Bitter Enders/Wild Woman
10442 by: Benjamin Starr
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--- Begin Message ---
>From TagNet this morning:
Re-survey of Mammoth Cave by: Mike Rogers (Knoxville, Tennessee)
Saw this on a park listserv and thought I'd share with the group.
-Mike
National Park Service to Recommend Re-Survey of Mammoth Cave (Cave
City,Kentucky)
In an effort to conserve paper and promote the "greening" of the
organization, the National Park Service has recommended that Mammoth
Cave be re-surveyed due to the voluminous amount of paper it takes to
print all the surveyors names on a single map.
Park Ranger Norman McPeebles reports that since the 1954 "C3" (Collin's
Crystal Cave) expedition, 26,452 individuals have participated in
mapping Mammoth Cave. The amount of paper required to legibly print these
names would exceed current park efficiency standards. Because of this,
the park recommends a complete re-survey of the cave using no more than
50 individuals.
"It is a shame that the work of so many individuals over the years has
to go to waste, but we believe it is for the greater good of the
environment and, ultimately, for Mammoth Cave," McPeebles reports. "It
is certainly much more conservation-minded to print 50 names on a map
than 26,452 names."
McPeebles notes that the park service is willing to make certain
concessions on the maximum number of surveyors.
"If two or more individuals share the exact same name, then the park
service is willing to allow those individuals mapping privileges in the
cave, since we can make efficient use of their names by printing only
one on the map," McPeebles said.
McPeebles also noted that individuals with shorter names would be given
higher priority. "We are especially looking for your typical Joe, Sue, Al,
and so forth. We are also recruiting some Brazilian cavers since they
typically are known by a single name."
The park service hopes to have the re-survey project completed by April 1,
2020.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did this make anyone else laugh in disbelief? Jacqui
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 7:00 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Re-survey of Mammoth Cave
From TagNet this morning:
Re-survey of Mammoth Cave by: Mike Rogers (Knoxville, Tennessee)
Saw this on a park listserv and thought I'd share with the group.
-Mike
National Park Service to Recommend Re-Survey of Mammoth Cave (Cave
City,Kentucky)
In an effort to conserve paper and promote the "greening" of the
organization, the National Park Service has recommended that Mammoth
Cave be re-surveyed due to the voluminous amount of paper it takes to
print all the surveyors names on a single map.
Park Ranger Norman McPeebles reports that since the 1954 "C3" (Collin's
Crystal Cave) expedition, 26,452 individuals have participated in
mapping Mammoth Cave. The amount of paper required to legibly print these
names would exceed current park efficiency standards. Because of this,
the park recommends a complete re-survey of the cave using no more than
50 individuals.
"It is a shame that the work of so many individuals over the years has
to go to waste, but we believe it is for the greater good of the
environment and, ultimately, for Mammoth Cave," McPeebles reports. "It
is certainly much more conservation-minded to print 50 names on a map
than 26,452 names."
McPeebles notes that the park service is willing to make certain
concessions on the maximum number of surveyors.
"If two or more individuals share the exact same name, then the park
service is willing to allow those individuals mapping privileges in the
cave, since we can make efficient use of their names by printing only
one on the map," McPeebles said.
McPeebles also noted that individuals with shorter names would be given
higher priority. "We are especially looking for your typical Joe, Sue, Al,
and so forth. We are also recruiting some Brazilian cavers since they
typically are known by a single name."
The park service hopes to have the re-survey project completed by April 1,
2020.
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A good way to start the day.
Those TAG guys, what jokers...
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 7:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] Re-survey of Mammoth Cave
From TagNet this morning:
Re-survey of Mammoth Cave by: Mike Rogers (Knoxville, Tennessee)
Saw this on a park listserv and thought I'd share with the group.
-Mike
National Park Service to Recommend Re-Survey of Mammoth Cave (Cave
City,Kentucky)
In an effort to conserve paper and promote the "greening" of the
organization, the National Park Service has recommended that Mammoth
Cave be re-surveyed due to the voluminous amount of paper it takes to
print all the surveyors names on a single map.
Park Ranger Norman McPeebles reports that since the 1954 "C3" (Collin's
Crystal Cave) expedition, 26,452 individuals have participated in
mapping Mammoth Cave. The amount of paper required to legibly print these
names would exceed current park efficiency standards. Because of this,
the park recommends a complete re-survey of the cave using no more than
50 individuals.
"It is a shame that the work of so many individuals over the years has
to go to waste, but we believe it is for the greater good of the
environment and, ultimately, for Mammoth Cave," McPeebles reports. "It
is certainly much more conservation-minded to print 50 names on a map
than 26,452 names."
McPeebles notes that the park service is willing to make certain
concessions on the maximum number of surveyors.
"If two or more individuals share the exact same name, then the park
service is willing to allow those individuals mapping privileges in the
cave, since we can make efficient use of their names by printing only
one on the map," McPeebles said.
McPeebles also noted that individuals with shorter names would be given
higher priority. "We are especially looking for your typical Joe, Sue, Al,
and so forth. We are also recruiting some Brazilian cavers since they
typically are known by a single name."
The park service hopes to have the re-survey project completed by April 1,
2020.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Great April fools news, thanks for sharing!
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:00:33 0000 [email protected] wrote:
> From TagNet this morning:
>
> Re-survey of Mammoth Cave by: Mike Rogers (Knoxville, Tennessee)
> "If two or more individuals share the exact same name, then the park
> service is willing to allow those individuals mapping privileges in the
> cave, since we can make efficient use of their names by printing only
> one on the map," McPeebles said.
>
> McPeebles also noted that individuals with shorter names would be given
> higher priority. "We are especially looking for your typical Joe, Sue, Al,
> and so forth. We are also recruiting some Brazilian cavers since they
> typically are known by a single name."
>
--
Lyndon Tiu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have to confess: I actually wasted about 10 minutes of my morning,
thinking really hard about how this would be even remotely possible. I was
like, "There's no ranger there named McPeebles, he must be a new guy! What
an idiot!" And then I realized it was April Fools and I felt REALLY stupid.
Good one, y'all!
Mallory
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Great April fools news, thanks for sharing!
>
> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:00:33 0000 [email protected] wrote:
> > From TagNet this morning:
> >
> > Re-survey of Mammoth Cave by: Mike Rogers (Knoxville, Tennessee)
> > "If two or more individuals share the exact same name, then the park
> > service is willing to allow those individuals mapping privileges in the
> > cave, since we can make efficient use of their names by printing only
> > one on the map," McPeebles said.
> >
> > McPeebles also noted that individuals with shorter names would be given
> > higher priority. "We are especially looking for your typical Joe, Sue,
> Al,
> > and so forth. We are also recruiting some Brazilian cavers since they
> > typically are known by a single name."
> >
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
"CaCa" started a similar program years ago....some areas have been resurveyed
at least 3 or 4 times.
I was with Pete Lindsley on a survey in the lower cave, a few years ago....when
he announced...."hey....we resurveyed this 30 years ago"! We were even using
the same stations....but with different numbers.....and we had Pete label the
flagging....so the lettering matched the old station markers.....
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 1, 2009, at 7:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>From TagNet this morning:
Re-survey of Mammoth Cave by: Mike Rogers (Knoxville, Tennessee)
Saw this on a park listserv and thought I'd share with the group.
-Mike
National Park Service to Recommend Re-Survey of Mammoth Cave (Cave
City,Kentucky)
In an effort to conserve paper and promote the "greening" of the
organization, the National Park Service has recommended that Mammoth
Cave be re-surveyed due to the voluminous amount of paper it takes to
print all the surveyors names on a single map.
Park Ranger Norman McPeebles reports that since the 1954 "C3" (Collin's
Crystal Cave) expedition, 26,452 individuals have participated in
mapping Mammoth Cave. The amount of paper required to legibly print these
names would exceed current park efficiency standards. Because of this,
the park recommends a complete re-survey of the cave using no more than
50 individuals.
"It is a shame that the work of so many individuals over the years has
to go to waste, but we believe it is for the greater good of the
environment and, ultimately, for Mammoth Cave," McPeebles reports. "It
is certainly much more conservation-minded to print 50 names on a map
than 26,452 names."
McPeebles notes that the park service is willing to make certain
concessions on the maximum number of surveyors.
"If two or more individuals share the exact same name, then the park
service is willing to allow those individuals mapping privileges in the
cave, since we can make efficient use of their names by printing only
one on the map," McPeebles said.
McPeebles also noted that individuals with shorter names would be given
higher priority. "We are especially looking for your typical Joe, Sue, Al,
and so forth. We are also recruiting some Brazilian cavers since they
typically are known by a single name."
The park service hopes to have the re-survey project completed by April 1,
2020.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
John, the area of survey we did was at least the 4th survey...
1. National Geographic did a precise contour map using a plane table
and drafted onto mylar in the cave
2. Tom Rohr did a precision theodolite / precision level survey
3. The Guadalupe Cave Survey group did a tripod-mounted Brunton
survey in the mid 1960's, closing the survey (on a home-brew
"CAVE-16" FORTRAN program running on an IBM-360 mainframe) with the
in-cave brass caps and "Rohr points"
4. Later caving groups repeated the survey yet again (and again?)
using hand-held Suuntos and laser range-finders (note the angular
precision dropped, but the distance precision improved - not exactly
what you want for an optimum "precision" survey)
I bet John Corcoran and Jim Hardy can add other iterations to the
above list. That last survey that you mentioned may have been the
time we were instructed by the NPS "people" to not tie in to old
stations and to remove any that we saw. I guess that proves that you
can have Fools (us included) in any month, not just in April. Our
precision and to some extent our sketching seem to be headed in the
wrong direction.
- Pete
On Apr 1, 2009, at 11:53 AM, John Brooks wrote:
"CaCa" started a similar program years ago....some areas have been
resurveyed at least 3 or 4 times.
I was with Pete Lindsley on a survey in the lower cave, a few years
ago....when he announced...."hey....we resurveyed this 30 years ago"!
We were even using the same stations....but with different
numbers.....and we had Pete label the flagging....so the lettering
matched the old station markers.....
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 1, 2009, at 7:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
From TagNet this morning:
Re-survey of Mammoth Cave by: Mike Rogers (Knoxville, Tennessee)
Saw this on a park listserv and thought I'd share with the group.
-Mike
National Park Service to Recommend Re-Survey of Mammoth Cave (Cave
City,Kentucky)
In an effort to conserve paper and promote the "greening" of the
organization, the National Park Service has recommended that Mammoth
Cave be re-surveyed due to the voluminous amount of paper it takes to
print all the surveyors names on a single map.
Park Ranger Norman McPeebles reports that since the 1954 "C3" (Collin's
Crystal Cave) expedition, 26,452 individuals have participated in
mapping Mammoth Cave. The amount of paper required to legibly print
these
names would exceed current park efficiency standards. Because of this,
the park recommends a complete re-survey of the cave using no more than
50 individuals.
"It is a shame that the work of so many individuals over the years has
to go to waste, but we believe it is for the greater good of the
environment and, ultimately, for Mammoth Cave," McPeebles reports. "It
is certainly much more conservation-minded to print 50 names on a map
than 26,452 names."
McPeebles notes that the park service is willing to make certain
concessions on the maximum number of surveyors.
"If two or more individuals share the exact same name, then the park
service is willing to allow those individuals mapping privileges in the
cave, since we can make efficient use of their names by printing only
one on the map," McPeebles said.
McPeebles also noted that individuals with shorter names would be given
higher priority. "We are especially looking for your typical Joe,
Sue, Al,
and so forth. We are also recruiting some Brazilian cavers since they
typically are known by a single name."
The park service hopes to have the re-survey project completed by
April 1,
2020.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---
April Fools?
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
[email protected]
--- On Wed, 4/1/09, Pete Lindsley <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Pete Lindsley <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re-survey of Mammoth Cave
To: "Texascavers" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Bill Steele" <[email protected]>, "John Brooks"
<[email protected]>, "John Corcoran" <[email protected]>, "Jim
Hardy" <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 12:26 PM
John, the area of survey we did was at least the 4th survey...
1. National Geographic did a precise contour map using a plane table and
drafted onto mylar in the cave
2. Tom Rohr did a precision theodolite / precision level survey
3. The Guadalupe Cave Survey group did a tripod-mounted Brunton survey in the
mid 1960's, closing the survey (on a home-brew "CAVE-16" FORTRAN program
running on an IBM-360 mainframe) with the in-cave brass caps and "Rohr points"
4. Later caving groups repeated the survey yet again (and again?) using
hand-held Suuntos and laser range-finders (note the angular precision dropped,
but the distance precision improved - not exactly what you want for an optimum
"precision" survey)
I bet John Corcoran and Jim Hardy can add other iterations to the above list.
That last survey that you mentioned may have been the time we were instructed
by the NPS "people" to not tie in to old stations and to remove any that we
saw. I guess that proves that you can have Fools (us included) in any month,
not just in April. Our precision and to some extent our sketching seem to be
headed in the wrong direction.
- Pete
On Apr 1, 2009, at 11:53 AM, John Brooks wrote:
"CaCa" started a similar program years ago....some areas have been resurveyed
at least 3 or 4 times.
I was with Pete Lindsley on a survey in the lower cave, a few years ago....when
he announced...."hey....we resurveyed this 30 years ago"! We were even using
the same stations....but with different numbers.....and we had Pete label the
flagging....so the lettering matched the old station markers.....
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 1, 2009, at 7:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>From TagNet this morning:
Re-survey of Mammoth Cave by: Mike Rogers (Knoxville, Tennessee)
Saw this on a park listserv and thought I'd share with the group.
-Mike
National Park Service to Recommend Re-Survey of Mammoth Cave (Cave
City,Kentucky)
In an effort to conserve paper and promote the "greening" of the
organization, the National Park Service has recommended that Mammoth
Cave be re-surveyed due to the voluminous amount of paper it takes to
print all the surveyors names on a single map.
Park Ranger Norman McPeebles reports that since the 1954 "C3" (Collin's
Crystal Cave) expedition, 26,452 individuals have participated in
mapping Mammoth Cave. The amount of paper required to legibly print these
names would exceed current park efficiency standards. Because of this,
the park recommends a complete re-survey of the cave using no more than
50 individuals.
"It is a shame that the work of so many individuals over the years has
to go to waste, but we believe it is for the greater good of the
environment and, ultimately, for Mammoth Cave," McPeebles reports. "It
is certainly much more conservation-minded to print 50 names on a map
than 26,452 names."
McPeebles notes that the park service is willing to make certain
concessions on the maximum number of surveyors.
"If two or more individuals share the exact same name, then the park
service is willing to allow those individuals mapping privileges in the
cave, since we can make efficient use of their names by printing only
one on the map," McPeebles said.
McPeebles also noted that individuals with shorter names would be given
higher priority. "We are especially looking for your typical Joe, Sue, Al,
and so forth. We are also recruiting some Brazilian cavers since they
typically are known by a single name."
The park service hopes to have the re-survey project completed by April 1,
2020.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey, fellow cavers! Does anyone know the current situation surrounding
access to Bitter Enders and/or Wild Woman? It's been more than a decade
since I've been in either one. Visited them first as a scout and they are
largely the reason I became a caver as an adult. I don't want to ask around
Davis and stir up any resentment if there are tenuous relations. If anyone
has information, please respond off list. Happy caving! -Ben Starr in
Dallas/Seattle
--- End Message ---
