texascavers Digest 23 Apr 2009 15:03:51 -0000 Issue 746
Topics (messages 10540 through 10557):
Re: Tales of caves and caving at the 2009 Spring TSA Convention
10540 by: George Veni
10541 by: germanyj.aol.com
10542 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
10550 by: Diana Tomchick
Stalagmites reveal rapid sea level change (ABC News in Science)
10543 by: Jon Cradit
AMCS publications at TSA
10544 by: Mixon Bill
dinner at TSA
10545 by: Mixon Bill
10546 by: jranzau.gmail.com
10547 by: Stefan Creaser
10548 by: Minton, Mark
10549 by: Lyndon Tiu
Got spammed--so sorry
10551 by: Mallory Mayeux
J2 progress report
10552 by: Mixon Bill
10555 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
10556 by: Gary Franklin
late night entry to TSA at Kerrville Park
10553 by: Robert B
USFW contributes $1 Million to Edwards Aquifer Plan :
10554 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com
Re: A Couple of May and June Caving Events for YOU! Update.
10557 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I've had some questions about the talk below. No, there are no salt domes in
New Mexico. Diana knew I would be talking about collapses in salt in New
Mexico, and probably thought they were the same as the salt dome collapses
in east Texas. The geology is a bit different, but the collapse mechanism is
very similar. Come to the TSA convention this weekend and learn the details
(and see some cool photos of karst in action as it creates giant holes in
the ground!)
George
-----Original Message-----
To: Cave Tex
Subject: [Texascavers] Tales of caves and caving at the 2009 Spring TSA
Convention
Don't miss the 2009 Spring TSA Convention, held at lovely Kerrville-
Schreiner State Park! Come and enjoy the camaraderie of your fellow
underground amigos while listening to the following Saturday
presentations:
George Veni - "Fragile Earth: Sinkhole Causes, Risks and Management"
- hear about the recent large sinkhole collapses seen in New Mexico
salt dome karst.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What time is the first talk on Saturday?
-----Original Message-----
From: George Veni <[email protected]>
To: 'Cave Tex' <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:05 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Tales of caves and caving at the 2009 Spring TSA
Convention
I've had some questions about the talk below. No, there are no salt domes in
New Mexico. Diana knew I would be talking about collapses in salt in New
Mexico, and probably thought they were the same as the salt dome collapses
in east Texas. The geology is a bit different, but the collapse mechanism is
very similar. Come to the TSA convention this weekend and learn the details
(and see some cool photos of karst in action as it creates giant holes in
the ground!)
George
-----Original Message-----
To: Cave Tex
Subject: [Texascavers] Tales of caves and caving at the 2009 Spring TSA
Convention
Don't miss the 2009 Spring TSA Convention, held at lovely Kerrville-
Schreiner State Park! Come and enjoy the camaraderie of your fellow
underground amigos while listening to the following Saturday
presentations:
George Veni - "Fragile Earth: Sinkhole Causes, Risks and Management"
- hear about the recent large sinkhole collapses seen in New Mexico
salt dome karst.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's the weekend schedule, Julie, that Bill and Diana have put together.
See you there!
Mark
Programs and schedule are listed below:
Saturday, April 25th
8:30 a.m. - Sessions begin in Recreation Hall
8:30 - 9.15 a.m. (45 minutes) George Veni - "Origin and Implications of Major
Sinkhole Collapses in Southeastern New Mexico, USA"
9:15 - 9:45 a.m. (30 minutes) Lyndon Tiu and Mark Alman - "Longhorn Lowdown"
9:45 -10:00 a.m. - Coffee break
10:00 - 10:15 a.m. (15 minutes) Ellie Thoene - "I Always Wanted to be a Caver,
and Now I Am!"
10:15 - 10:30 a.m. (15 minutes) Ron Ralph - "Seminole Canyon State Park - the
Friendship Project"
10:30 - 11:00 a.m. (30 minutes) Jon Cradit - "NSS Convention, International
Congress - What a Great Shindig Texans Can Put-On"
11:00 - 11:30 a.m. (30 minutes) Andy Grubbs - "Salt Domes, Karst and the
Daisetta Sinkhole"
11:30 - 1:30 - Lunch break and time for Salon viewing and shopping with vendors
1:30 -1:50 p.m. (20 minutes) David Ochel - "A Beginner's Walk Through Walls"
1:50 - 2:35 p.m. (45 minutes) Jim Kennedy - "White Nose Syndrome and Texas
Cavers"
2:35 - 3:05 p.m. (30 minutes) Peter Sprouse & Geoff Hoese - "Oaxaca 2008:
Skeletons and Scorpions in Dark Places"
3:05 - 3:20 p.m. - Coffee break
3:20 - 3:50 p.m. (30 minutes) Bill Steele - "Sistema de Los Toros, Now the
Deepest Cave in Nuevo Leon"
3:50 - 4:10 p.m. (20 minutes) Diana Tomchick - "Las Grutas de Guerrero"
4:10 - 4:50 p.m. (40 minutes) Audience - "Caver Show and Tell"
5:00 p.m. - Texas Speleological Association Business Meeting in Recreation Hall
6:30 p.m. - BBQ Dinner in Recreation Hall
7:30 - 10:00 p.m. - Texas Cave Management Association Auction in Recreation Hall
Sunday, April 26th
9:00 a.m. TCMA Breakfast - outside Recreation Hall, $5 donation appreciated
9:30 a.m. George Veni - "Preview of the 15th International Congress of
Speleology"
The 15th ICS will be held in Kerrville in July 2009 at Schreiner University.
For a tour of the campus and a preview of what will be going on, we will leave
Kerrville Schreiner Park at 9:30 a.m. and meet at the Cailloux Activity Center
on campus. When you drive onto the campus, you should make a left turn just
inside the gate, the Activity Center is the first building on the right. We
won't stay there for long but will do a walking tour of the campus and duck
into any unlocked buildings when possible. The tour will last 2-3 hours
depending on people's interests and questions. Schreiner is only 1.5 miles
away. Go in your own vehicle and feel free to leave early or stay late.
10:00 a.m. TCMA Business Meeting - outside Recreation Hall
________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wed 4/22/2009 9:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Tales of caves and caving at the 2009 Spring TSA
Convention
What time is the first talk on Saturday?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
You sent out the original schedule, one that has several errors in it.
Here's the most current one. The times and locations for the Sunday
TCMA breakfast and business meeting are a guess based on last year's
schedule, if they need to be corrected then someone from the TCMA
should let me know.
Diana
-------------------------
Saturday, April 25th
8:30 a.m. – Sessions begin in Recreation Hall
8:30 – 9:15 a.m. (45 minutes) George Veni – “Fragile Earth: Sinkhole
Causes, Risks and Management”
9:15 – 9:45 a.m. (30 minutes) Lyndon Tiu & Mark Alman – “Longhorn
Lowdown”
9:45 –10:00 a.m. – Coffee break
10:00 – 10:15 a.m. (15 minutes) Ron Ralph – "The Friendship Project:
Announcing the Texas Speleological Survey Cave and Karst Survey at the
Amistad National Recreation Area, Val Verde County, Texas”
10:15 – 10:45 a.m. (30 minutes) Jon Cradit – “NSS Convention,
International Congress – What a Great Shindig Texans Can Put-On”
10:45 – 11:15 a.m. (30 minutes) Andy Grubbs – “Salt Domes, Karst and
the Daisetta Sinkhole”
11:15 – 11:30 a.m. (15 minutes) Ellie Thoene – “I Always Wanted to be
a Caver, and Now I Am!”
11:30 – 1:30 – Lunch break and time for Salon viewing and shopping
with vendors
1:30 –1:50 p.m. (20 minutes) David Ochel – “A Beginner’s Walk Through
Walls”
1:50 – 2:35 p.m. (45 minutes) Jim Kennedy – “White Nose Syndrome and
Texas Cavers”
2:35 – 3:05 p.m. (30 minutes) Peter Sprouse & Geoff Hoese – "Oaxaca
2008: Skeletons and Scorpions in Dark Places”
3:05 – 3:20 p.m. – Coffee break
3:20 – 3:50 p.m. (30 minutes) Bill Steele – “Sistema de Los Toros,
Now the Deepest Cave in Nuevo Leon”
3:50 – 4:10 p.m. (20 minutes) Diana Tomchick – “Las Grutas de Guerrero”
4:10 – 4:50 p.m. (40 minutes) Audience – “Caver Show and Tell”
5:00 p.m. – Texas Speleological Association Business Meeting in
Recreation Hall
6:30 p.m. – BBQ Dinner in Recreation Hall
7:30 – 9:30 p.m. – Texas Cave Management Association Auction in
Recreation Hall
Sunday, April 26th
9:00 a.m. TCMA Breakfast – outside Recreation Hall, $5
donation appreciated
9:30 a.m. George Veni – “Preview of the 15th International Congress
of Speleology”
The 15th ICS will be held in Kerrville in July 2009 at
Schreiner University. For a tour of the campus and a preview of what
will be going on, we will leave Kerrville Schreiner Park at 9:30 a.m.
and meet at the Cailloux Activity Center on campus. When you drive
onto the campus, you should make a left turn just inside the gate, the
Activity Center is the first building on the right. We won’t stay
there for long but will do a walking tour of the campus and duck into
any unlocked buildings when possible. The tour will last 2-3 hours
depending on people's interests and questions. Schreiner is only 1.5
miles away. Go in your own vehicle and feel free to leave early or
stay late.
10:00 a.m. TCMA Business Meeting – outside Recreation Hall
On Apr 22, 2009, at 9:27 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Here's the weekend schedule, Julie, that Bill and Diana have put
together.
See you there!
Mark
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: [email protected]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/04/08/2538068.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Association for Mexican Cave Studies will have for sale at the TSA
Convention this weekend the following recent publications or
acquisitions:
AMCS Activities Newsletter 31, June 2008, $14 softbound $24 hardbound
AMCS Reprint 8, "The Cenotes of Yucatan," by Pearse et al, orig. 1936,
reprint November 2008, $20
AMCS Reprint 9, "Fauna of the Caves of Yucatan," by Pearse et al,
orig. 1938, reprint November 2008, $20
AMCS Reprint 10, "Cave Papers of Federico Bonet," orig. 1953 and 1971,
reprint March 2009, $12
Texas Memorial Museum Speleological Monograph 7, "Studies on the Cave
and Endogean Fauna of North America, Part V," edited by James
Cokendolpher and James Reddell, April 2009, $16
"Hidden Depths of Mexico," a 55-minute 1983 film by Sid Perou on DVD-
R, $15
Cash or checks only, please. Details about these and all other
publications available from the AMCS can be found at amcs-pubs.org. If
you want any other things in our catalog brought to the TSA convention
for your purchase or inspection, e-mail [email protected] before
noon on Friday. -- Bill Mixon, AMCS sales
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can't hurt to remind people again that those preparing the TSA dinner
Saturday night will, annoyingly, expect people to bring their own
plates, cups, and eating utensils.
--Mixon
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---
Then I will also remind everyone that the TCMA also asks you to bring your
own equipment for the breakfast on Sunday. It is worth noting that our
request is not annoying as I do not write in a posh British accent like the
other chef.
Joe
On Apr 22, 2009 10:37am, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
Can't hurt to remind people again that those preparing the TSA dinner
Saturday night will, annoyingly, expect people to bring their own plates,
cups, and eating utensils.
--Mixon
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---
Me, posh British accent?! Y'aaall must be thinking of someone else ;-)
Bill, if I had enough plates and flatware I'd be happy to provide them
for people to eat off/with. However, since I'm not a fan of disposables,
I don't fancy washing up after 125 people without access to a
dishwasher. If you have the plates, etc. and want to do the washing up
then be my guest!
Cheers,
Stefan
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] dinner at TSA
Then I will also remind everyone that the TCMA also asks you to bring
your own equipment for the breakfast on Sunday. It is worth noting that
our request is not annoying as I do not write in a posh British accent
like the other chef.
Joe
On Apr 22, 2009 10:37am, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Can't hurt to remind people again that those preparing the TSA dinner
Saturday night will, annoyingly, expect people to bring their own
plates, cups, and eating utensils.
>
> --Mixon
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
>
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> You may "reply" to the address this message
>
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>
> Personal: [email protected]
>
> AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Stefan said:
>since I'm not a fan of disposables, I don't fancy washing up after 125 people
>without access to a dishwasher. If you have the plates, etc. and want to do
>the washing up then be my guest!
At this year's J2 expedition everyone was assigned a personal plate, cup
and flatware, which they were responsible for keeping track of and keeping as
clean as they deemed necessary. In the past we had always just had a large
cache of group kitchen items which everyone used and then placed into a large
tub to be washed along with the cooking utensils and pots. With up to 30
people on site at any one time, that made for a rather large washing up chore.
Coupled with the fact that there is no local water supply at base camp and that
cooking and washing are done by volunteers, it was sometimes difficult to get
the work done in a timely manner. The new system avoids most of the problem
and prevents people from grabbing another clean plate or cup every time they
eat something. Washing up this year has been mercifully easy, since every one
does their own and the only group items are the cook pots and utensils. Those
without culinary skills were generally happy to do the washing in exchange for
being fed. ;-) It seems to be a good system and sure to be used on future
expeditions.
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:51:32 0000 [email protected] wrote:
> a posh British accent like the other chef.
>
He just got his greencard and is slowly turning into an American.
--
Lyndon Tiu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone,
I'm not sure how but somehow a spambot got into my Gmail account and sent
out messages to anyone I've ever emailed. I'm sorry for the inconvenience
and I'm attempting to fix the problem. :(
On a lighter note, hope all of you are doing well--happy Wednesday!
Mallory Mayeux
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Latest progress report from the J2 expedition, per e-mail today from
Matt Covington:
Here is the latest news from J2. All of the dive gear arrived at the
sump the day before yesterday. As of last contact with the dive team
last night James and Jose were camped at the sump and the one
rebreather they had assembled at that point was functioning properly.
They were planning on diving today, but there was no new news by the
time I left camp.
That would mean they were finally going to dive _40 days_ after the
start of the expedition. -- Mixon
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
I hate to sound ignorant (it wouldn't be the first or last time), but what is
the J2 expedition?
Inquiring minds need to know!
Thanks,
Mark
________________________________
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wed 4/22/2009 5:36 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] J2 progress report
Latest progress report from the J2 expedition, per e-mail today from
Matt Covington:
Here is the latest news from J2. All of the dive gear arrived at the
sump the day before yesterday. As of last contact with the dive team
last night James and Jose were camped at the sump and the one
rebreather they had assembled at that point was functioning properly.
They were planning on diving today, but there was no new news by the
time I left camp.
That would mean they were finally going to dive _40 days_ after the
start of the expedition. -- Mixon
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---
See link for details.
http://www.usdct.org/
---- [email protected] wrote:
=============
Bill,
I hate to sound ignorant (it wouldn't be the first or last time), but what is
the J2 expedition?
Inquiring minds need to know!
Thanks,
Mark
________________________________
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wed 4/22/2009 5:36 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] J2 progress report
Latest progress report from the J2 expedition, per e-mail today from
Matt Covington:
Here is the latest news from J2. All of the dive gear arrived at the
sump the day before yesterday. As of last contact with the dive team
last night James and Jose were camped at the sump and the one
rebreather they had assembled at that point was functioning properly.
They were planning on diving today, but there was no new news by the
time I left camp.
That would mean they were finally going to dive _40 days_ after the
start of the expedition. -- Mixon
---------------------------------------------
He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
It has been suggested that I come up with a means that would allow late
arrivals to TSA in Kerrville to open the locked gate after hours.
As many of you are aware, most parks lock the entrance gate around 10PM.
Kerrville is no exception.
They do provide the lock's combination to guests so that they can come n
go as necessary.
I will attach a item (probably a 3x5 card with TSA written on it) to the
gate as close to the lock and chain as possible. This item will have the
combo written on it.
If for some reason this item is removed, just walk down the hill and find
somebody from our group to open up.
Close and lock the gate behind you after entry.
Please be considerate when arriving late by being as quite as possible. The
camp host lives very near the gate.
Rob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fish and Wildlife Service contributes $1 million to Edwards Aquifer plan
San Antonio Business Journal
Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 10:28am CDT
The _U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service_
(http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/gen/U.S._Fish_and_Wildlife_Service_F0513E41308A4DA6A8BA046460EC194A.h
tml) awarded the Edwards Aquifer Recovery Implementation Program a $1
million habitat conservation planning assistance grant.
The _Edwards Aquifer Authority_
(http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/gen/Edwards_Aquifer_Authority_33949D81ABAA473FBBF17235EF3D2622.html)
will use the funds, in part, to develop a comprehensive plan for protecting
federally listed endangered or threatened species while managing pumping
rights out of the aquifer. In 2007, the Texas Legislature mandated the creation
of the aquifer recovery implementation program. The Edwards Aquifer
Authority has a deadline of Sept. 1, 2012 to complete this plan.
So far, stakeholders in the program have contributed more than $775,000
towards the plan. In addition to the Edwards Aquifer Authority, other
stakeholders in the plan include water utilities, cities, groundwater
conservation
districts, agricultural users, industrial users, environmental
organizations, individuals, river authorities, downstream and coastal
communities and
state and federal agencies. These stakeholders rely on water from the
Edwards Aquifer.
Local stakeholders are currently working with the Texas Legislature for
additional funds.
“The stakeholders have been working extraordinarily hard to meet goals set
by the Legislature,” says Robert Gulley, program manager for the Edwards
Aquifer Recovery Implementation Program. “Thus far, they have met and
exceeded all the goals set for them. All parties understand that the work ahead
will be difficult. This is a truly significant grant that will not only
assist the stakeholders in continuing to meet their goals but also reinforces
the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s commitment to our program.”
The Greater Edwards Aquifer Alliance sponsored the grant application
before the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. U.S. Sen. John Cornyn and U.S. Reps.
Charlie Gonzalez, Ciro D. Rodriguez and Lamar Smith all wrote letters of
support toward the federal grant application.
_http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2009/04/20/daily20.htm
l_
(http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2009/04/20/daily20.html)
**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
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--- Begin Message ---
All,
I wanted to thank all of the folks that have contacted me to volunteer
for the Salado Ranch Ridge Walkathon.
Fortunately, we have been informed that there is a large and healthy bat
population in one of the caves we were planning on working in and
digging out.
Unfortunately, there are bats in the caves we were planning on working
in and digging out, so we thought it would be best to cancel this work
weekend and start it back up this winter, when the bats have moved on to
points South.
The last thing we want to do is disturb the bats.
As a consequence, you now have the opportunity to get down and dirty
next weekend, Saturday, May 2nd at Longhorn Caverns. We have moved this
from June to May.
The Longhorn Thru Trip is shaping up to be a popular and very busy trek
during ICS, as several other caves and trips have had to be cancelled,
due to WNS.
Lyndon and I have a desperate need to get as many trip leaders trained
and their services secured for the ICS as possible.
We also have a need to improve and configure one of the more
"challenging" areas of the cave for safe passage, next weekend.
If this sounds like something you'd like to help out with, contact
Lyndon or me.
Please bring your own water, food, and camping gear as the Visitors area
at the park is available Friday and Saturday nights.
Please be aware that there now are Park Hosts residing at LCSP, so we
need to keep noise at a minimum and any debauchery needs to be done in a
silent manner!
So, after you have enjoyed talking about caving at the TSA Convention,
come on out to this project, as well as the always popular CBSP Project,
and get down and dirty in some real caves.
Come on out for a guaranteed fun weekend, great camaraderie, a very
accommodating park and staff, a great location to observe the stars and
partake of a cool one, and enjoy the Texas Hill Country before it gets
too d***** hot!
Thanks,
Mark and Lyndon
________________________________
From: Alman, Mark @ IRP
Sent: Thu 4/16/2009 8:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: A Couple of May and June Caving Events for YOU!
Salado, TX Ranch Ridge Walkathon, Saturday, May 2nd, 2009 - CANCELLED!
Longhorn Caverns State Park Dig, Saturday, June 6th - MOVED TO SATURDAY,
MAY 2nd!
--- End Message ---
