texascavers Digest 14 Jan 2009 00:16:27 -0000 Issue 686
Topics (messages 9867 through 9876):
Re: Four boys rescued from Bexar County cave
9867 by: Fritz Holt
9869 by: Alex Sproul
9871 by: Geary Schindel
9872 by: John Brooks
Schindel's big thaw. Some questions....
9868 by: Alex Sproul
Jan 09 CBSP Images posted to photobucket
9870 by: Andy Zenker
TCC Winter Conference
9873 by: Jim Kennedy
Texas conservation projects : Details needed
9874 by: cavers
ribbing and critiquing
9875 by: Gill Ediger
9876 by: Louise Power
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--- Begin Message ---
Geary,
Interesting, but you realize that this post will evoke more ribbing and
critique from Ediger. He may even call you a hick, especially with "wherever
you're at". I think that I would prefer Bozo. It's OK as everyone on this forum
loves you, with the possible exception of close relatives.
Fritz, foot in mouth, Holt
________________________________
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:42 PM
To: Keith Goggin; Fritz Holt; [email protected]; [email protected];
[email protected]
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Four boys rescued from Bexar County cave
Yeah,
I'm actually from Maryland which some people don't recognize as the true south
since it didn't secede from the Union. However, it is south of the Mason Dixon
Line.
My comments to Alex were intended to be snotty since he's tried to kill me on
more than one occasion but who actually helped form my early caving experiences.
Regarding this Yankee stuff, when I moved from Maryland to West Virginia, it
wasn't an issue. When I moved from West Virginia to Kentucky, they called me a
Yankee. When I moved from Kentucky to Tennessee, they called me a Yankee from
Kentucky. Now that I'm about as far south as you can get in the US, I take the
opportunity to label everyone else a Yankee. However, the folks down here
still call me a hick from the sticks.
I've found that wherever you're at, the natives always consider it better than
wherever you're from. With the possible exception of folks from New Jersey who
consider anywhere better than there. This is funny, cause some parts of
northern New Jersey are actually pretty nice.
G
From: Keith Goggin [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:54 PM
To: Geary Schindel; Fritz Holt; [email protected]; [email protected];
[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Four boys rescued from Bexar County cave
Thanks for the support, you know how those irreverent, uppity Yankees are from
Virginia.
Geary
Careful now, son!
;-)
K
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--- Begin Message ---
>I take the opportunity to label everyone else a Yankee. However, the folks
>down here still call me a hick from the sticks.
The Edwards Aquifer clearly is not keeping you busy enough to justify your
engorged salary, 'cuz I know you don't type that fast, Bozo.
Alex
--
Alex Sproul
NSS 8086RL/FE
NSS Webmaster
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Actually, I'm about to run into our board meeting where I really earn my
salary and also the right to earn it in the future. Today, I have to
discuss a very popular subject in the region called droughts and trying
to predict when we'll enter critical period and start water
restrictions. We're in a very serious drought down here with most of
the region receiving around 11-13 inches of rain last year. This isn't
bad if you live in the Chihuahuan Desert but less than the 30 inches we
usually average. Anyway, I'll try to avoid misuse of the spoken word in
the board meeting - the board is always more impressed with I speak good
English. I certainly do not talk to them about cluming in any of them
there caves.
Geary
From: Alex Sproul [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:37 PM
To: Geary Schindel
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Four boys rescued from Bexar County cave
>I take the opportunity to label everyone else a Yankee. However, the
folks
>down here still call me a hick from the sticks.
The Edwards Aquifer clearly is not keeping you busy enough to justify
your engorged salary, 'cuz I know you don't type that fast, Bozo.
Alex
--
Alex Sproul
NSS 8086RL/FE
NSS Webmaster
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--- Begin Message ---
Geary, people may have a lot of labels for you.....but at least you don't need
the Girl Scouts to rescue your misplaced caving gear....
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 13, 2009, at 1:42 PM, "Geary Schindel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Yeah,
I’m actually from Maryland which some people don’t recognize as the true south
since it didn’t secede from the Union. However, it is south of the Mason Dixon
Line.
My comments to Alex were intended to be snotty since he’s tried to kill me on
more than one occasion but who actually helped form my early caving
experiences.
Regarding this Yankee stuff, when I moved from Maryland to West Virginia, it
wasn’t an issue. When I moved from West Virginia to Kentucky, they called me a
Yankee. When I moved from Kentucky to Tennessee, they called me a Yankee from
Kentucky. Now that I’m about as far south as you can get in the US, I take the
opportunity to label everyone else a Yankee. However, the folks down here
still call me a hick from the sticks.
I’ve found that wherever you’re at, the natives always consider it better than
wherever you’re from. With the possible exception of folks from New Jersey who
consider anywhere better than there. This is funny, cause some parts of
northern New Jersey are actually pretty nice.
G
From: Keith Goggin [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:54 PM
To: Geary Schindel; Fritz Holt; [email protected]; [email protected];
[email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Four boys rescued from Bexar County cave
Thanks for the support, you know how those irreverent, uppity Yankees are from
Virginia.
Geary
Careful now, son!
;-)
K
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--- Begin Message ---
>I see another word in there that sometimes sets me off...
Hey, Gill --
Don't forget flammable and inflammable. And flamed and inflamed, as in "I
flamed him, and he responded with inflamed rhetoric"...
Alex
--
Alex Sproul
NSS 8086RL/FE
NSS Webmaster
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--- Begin Message ---
http://s394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/Cavemaster/
Look toward the bottom of the list. There are 4 folders for the Jan CBSP split
up for Be Excellent, the batroom, the party and Gorman Falls
ROCKHUGGER
Andy Zenker
Texas Caver
--- On Tue, 1/13/09, Andy Zenker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Andy Zenker <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] CBSP Dancing Videos
To: [email protected], "RD Milhollin" <[email protected]>,
"Patrick Wells" <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 7:35 AM
>Only after you post those dance videos on YouTube.
>We are holding the pads hostage!Nice try!
But
I found the knee pads in the bottom of Heather's muddy bag last night. I
forgot that I had put them away.
Thanks to everyone who was willing to look for them next time at the
park. I do appreciate it.
Here are the links to videos from CBSP:
Sump Instructions (RD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMemeapSwRY
I love Rock and Roll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS0bOmG-2s0
Gotta Keep Em Separated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy0j-P0eTv0
More Dancing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwz7jo1lVUA
Enjoy!
ROCKHUGGER
Andy Zenker
Texas Caver
--- On Mon, 1/12/09, Andy Zenker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Andy Zenker <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Lost Kneepads at CBSP
To: [email protected], "RD Milhollin" <[email protected]>,
"Patrick Wells" <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 7:20 PM
I was just unpacking my gear and realized that I don't have my knee pads. They
are black, Dirty Daves full length with 3
straps. I believe I took them off at the picnic table in front of the
conference center on Sat night. Someone must have picked them up. Please
forward this message to anyone who was there that is not on the texascavers
list. It would be great if I could get them back before the Amazing Maze trip
this weekend.
Thanks,
ROCKHUGGER
Andy Zenker
Texas Caver
--- On Mon, 1/12/09, Matt Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Matt Turner <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Four boys rescued fron Bexar County cave :
To: [email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 9:51 AM
Well,
I would have to assume so. I say this because if you have a sign posted or a
purple mark on a post or tree every 100ft it makes it criminal trespassing.
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.007.00.000030.00.htm#30.05.00
that's the criminal trespassing code.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5420/is_/ai_n29493801 this link talks
about landowner liability and says for the most part that if someone is
trespassing that they have little liability if they don't boobietrap their
property.
Matt Turner
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it." - Aristotle
"Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do
that."- Norman Vincent Peale
From: Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 7:19:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Four boys rescued fron Bexar County cave :
" ... the proverbial lawyer's question, "Did you know, or should you have
known? ... "
I always hear "Ignorance of the law is not an excuse."
How about ignorance of posted warning signs? I wonder if posting a sign on the
fence:
"Passing this fence can result in injury or death."
Makes the difference in court?
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:49:35 0000 [email protected] wrote:
> I think it depends on whether or not they sue and can prove
negligence
> in court. Remember the proverbial lawyer's question, "Did you know, or
> should you have known?"
>
--
Lyndon Tiu
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--- Begin Message ---
Posted for Mike Walsh:
3rd Texas Cave Conservancy Winter Conference
February 27 - 28 - March 1, 2009
The TCC Winter Conference will once again be held in the Cedar Park
area. Everyone is welcome, but be sure to bring the new cavers. Our
guest speaker this year will be Ron Kerbo. Since this is a caver event
it will not be posted on our web site. For additional information
contact [email protected] . We will send you the TCC News with
more information on the event.
TCC Headquarters
1800 West Park Street
Cedar Park, TX 78613-2717
512-249-2283
Confidentiality Note: This email and any attachment to it are
confidential and protected by law and intended for the use of the
individual(s) or entity named on the email. If the reader of this
message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination or distribution of this communication is prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
via return email and delete it completely from your email system. If you
have printed a copy of the email, please destroy it immediately. Thank
you
--- End Message ---
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Posted for Scott Fee. He is preparing to send in the application to the
federal government to continue getting matching funds when federal employees
contribut to the NSS. Apparently there is an absense of data from Texas.
From reading this list ,I know that many projects are underway in Texas, so
you cavers with direct knowledge of these good works, PLEASE send Scott the
information he needs , outlined below.
David Caudle
Did you have any clean up, restoration, or educational seminars in Texas,
Oklahoma, New Mexico, or Arizona?
If you did, I need some very brief information today:
1) Name of Cave, Park, etc.
2) Location (nearest city)
3) Nature of Activity
4) How many participated?
5) Date (or Dates)
Example:
Bat Cave,
Birmingham (AL),
Graffiti Removal,
15 cavers,
January 15, 2008 and March 31, 2008
Please send to scottfeeATbellsouthDOTnet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
At 02:21 PM 1/13/2009, Fritz Holt wrote:
...you realize that this post will evoke more ribbing and critique
from Ediger.
Well, now, wait another minute there, Fritz. Not I. It's long been my
practice to avoid ribbing or critiquing folks wontanly--especially
those who can't be considered responsible for their own actions.
While G Schindel can pretty much be considered an adult now--or a
senior teen, at least--it wasn't always so. When he started caving he
didn't know any better than to do certain things--that's what
training is all about--including picking the people available to go
caving with--like Sproul, for instance. Sometimes young cavers just
have to take whatever they can get. Besides, knowing who not to go
caving with is often a more valuable lesson than learning who is
suitable. That he eventually chose Texan cavers for companionship
would seem to be a choice he had made willfully but don't count on it
completely. Remember he came here for a high-paying pork-barrel job
and the fame that goes with it, so one can't rule out that hanging
out with Texan cavers could just be some tenatious residue of his
fiscal prostitution. I'm not claiming that that's the case but just
throwing it out to preclude creative clouding of the facts by any of
his supporters given to over-blown sympathy. Not that it's not deserved.
The same logic goes for being born a Yankee. Nobody in his right mind
would opt for that miserable situation, of course, but being young
and inexperienced a lot of babies have no real choice or are forced
into it by ignorant parents or the sex-slavery which runs rampant in
that district. That is not their fault and they can be forgiven it if
they make some reasonable effort to rectify the misfortune before
they are tainted by the thought patterns of their tenders. That
Schindel was slow to learn and had to make soo many stops--moving
hither in a series of rather disjointed fits and starts--does not
abrogate entirely against ribbing and critiquing on the face of it,
but it would be undignified.
I would take theoretical exception to his defense of the voluntary
inmates of New Jersey. I have just come from an 8-year study of this
sub-species and offer the following observations. The reason they
don't leave that hell-hole is because of some sort of prideful social
myopia. They are social masochists and each takes great pride in
suffering through life more than any of his fellows whilst all the
time surrounded by abundant ignorance and filth and free-form
cursing, each one trying to outdo the other in both being tough and
whimpy--at the same time. Most people in the real world are not
limber enough to accomplish it, but being brought up from near-term
aborted fetuses in that seething environment they are naturally
inured to being flexible and able to insert their heads in their
butts like ostriches stick their heads in the sand and to being
completely unaware that the rest of the world is going on around
them--or even suspecting that there might be. (Many of you will
recognize this as the logical place to insert comments about religion
and politics but I will submit to the strictures.) They thrive on it.
"Regarding this Yankee stuff" even further: I drove trains several
times a week which crossed Mason's & Dixon's Line--the portion of
said Line which runs north-and-south. I submit that most Yankees
don't even know that there is such a portion. And, of course, few
people except escaped Negro slaves in transit and wayward geographers
ever cared in the first place. They never cared because it's Delaware
on the other side. The state tourist agency promotes the slogan:
"DELAWARE--Why?" with great success. Maryland, of course, is on the
this side and they were occupied and sequestered by the enemy during
The War Between The States. Talk about undignified.... But there's
very little we can do about that now.
--Ediger
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--- Begin Message ---
Now Gill, I'm sure you wouldn't want to be left out of the spelling
corrections. To wit:
You said: "It's long been my practice to avoid ribbing or critiquing folks
wontanly ..."
wan·ton (wntn)
adj.
1. Immoral or unchaste; lewd.
2.
a. Gratuitously cruel; merciless.
b. Marked by unprovoked, gratuitous maliciousness; capricious and unjust:
wanton destruction.
3. Unrestrainedly excessive: wanton extravagance; wanton depletion of oil
reserves.
4. Luxuriant; overabundant: wanton tresses.
5. Frolicsome; playful.
6. Undisciplined; spoiled.
7. Obsolete Rebellious; refractory.
"...tenatious residue of his fiscal prostitution..."
Did you mean tenacious?
Definition:
[adj] sticking together; "two coherent sheets"; "tenacious burrs"
[adj] (of memory) having greater than average range; "a long memory especially
for insults"; "a tenacious memory"
[adj] stubbornly unyielding; "dogged persistence"; "dour determination"; "the
most vocal and pertinacious of all the critics"; "a mind not gifted to discover
truth but tenacious to hold it"- T.S.Eliot; "men tenacious of opinion"
Once a proofreader, always a proofreader!
Kindly, Louise
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