texascavers Digest 15 Jan 2009 20:08:56 -0000 Issue 687

texascavers-digest-help Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:09:07 -0800 (PST)

texascavers Digest 15 Jan 2009 20:08:56 -0000 Issue 687

Topics (messages 9877 through 9894):


Re: Lost Kneepads at CBSP
        9877 by: Heather Tucek

Found Kneepads
        9878 by: Gill Ediger

Re: New Issue of Canyons & Caves
        9879 by: jerryatkin.aol.com

OT Political
        9880 by: wesley s

Re: 7 Wonders of Nature
        9881 by: J. LaRue Thomas

[For David][Researchers develop higher-efficiency LEDs]
        9882 by: Don Arburn

Endangered cave species litigation in Bexar County :
        9883 by: jerryatkin.aol.com

Hunting Ian Quigley
        9884 by: Johnson, Russ (ATX)

Re: ribbing and critiquing
        9885 by: Ted Samsel

TSA Winter Meeting Minutes
        9886 by: Denise P

The TEXAS CAVER Is Now Online!!!!
        9887 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
        9888 by: Minton, Mark
        9889 by: Lyndon Tiu
        9890 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
        9891 by: Lyndon Tiu
        9892 by: Minton, Mark
        9893 by: Charles Goldsmith
        9894 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
        <[email protected]>

To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
        <[email protected]>

To post to the list, e-mail:
        <[email protected]>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Begin Message ---

Thanks for looking, but we found them!

-Heather


2009/1/13 <[email protected]>

>  We're going down there this weekend to take a large contingent of Girl
> Scouts caving, Andy.
>
>
>
> We'll be on the lookout for them.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Andy Zenker [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Monday, January 12, 2009 7:20 PM
> *To:* [email protected]; RD Milhollin; Patrick Wells
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Lost Kneepads at CBSP
>
>
>
> I was just unpacking my gear and realized that I don't have my knee pads.
> They are black, Dirty Daves full length with 3 straps.  I believe I took
> them off at the picnic table in front of the conference center on Sat
> night.  Someone must have picked them up. Please forward this message to
> anyone who was there that is not on the texascavers list.   It would be
> great if I could get them back before the Amazing Maze trip this weekend.
>
> Thanks,
>
> *ROCKHUGGER
> Andy Zenker
> Texas Caver
>
> *
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto
(512) 773-1348
[email protected]

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---
At 06:55 PM 1/13/2009, Heather Tucek wrote:
Thanks for looking, but we found them!
-Heather
I found 3 knee pads (all mismatched) on a shelf in my shed right nextto a crumbling Girl Scout cookie box about half full of old carbidelamp parts. Could that be significant?
--Ediger
--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 4:21 pm
Subject: New Issue of Canyons & Caves

Hi There,

After a 3.5 year hiatus, Canyons & Cave, a newsletter from the Resources
Stewardship & Science Division at Carlsbad Caverns National Park is once
again being produced and distributed on a quarterly basis. If interested,
you can find this newsletter (Issue #38 Winter 2008) at the following web
address:

http://www.nps.gov/cave/planyourvisit/brochures.htm#CP_JUMP_145034

If you do not want to receive these notifications, please let me know and I
will remove your address from the list.

Please let others that may be interested know about this newsletter and I
can add anyone to the notification list if you send me your email.

Enjoy,

Dale

--------------------------------------------
Dale L. Pate
Cave & Karst Program Coordinator
Geologic Resources Division - NPS

Supervisory Physical Scientist
Carlsbad Caverns National Park
575-785-3107

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS EMAIL OVER CAVETEX!!!

Email me directly at [email protected] if you want to talk or need 
specifics. This should NOT start a thread but simply announce a caver event.

On Tuesday night the 20th a bunch of us are going downtown in Austin to 
celebrate the
inauguration of our new president and the end of an error. Obama's
election is truly an historic event, but for my part it is an equally
momentous occasion that Bush is leaving never to come back. To send our
message of contempt and refute Bush's so called legacy I plan to have
an effigy that we and all of Austin will take turns throwing shoes at.
Here's to us not getting arrested.

If you want to accompany us contact me for meeting time and place 

Wes 
512-762-3003
or [email protected]

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Check out the Jeita Grotto in Lebanon--I have friends who say it's gorgeous. 
http://www.new7wonders.com/nature/en/nominees/asia/c/JeitaGrotto/

And yes, I know, one of the comments includes "underground cave." Let it go...
Jacqui
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Louise Power 
  To: Texas Cavers 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:10 PM
  Subject: [Texascavers] 7 Wonders of Nature

  I saw online this morning that there is currently a contest going to pick a 
new 7 Wonders of Nature. Among these are eight caves, one in North and Central 
America, four in Europe and three in Asia. If you want to know more about these 
and the other nominated sites, go to

  http://www.new7wonders.com/nature/en/index/

  and click on each continent to see what was nominated. In addition to caves, 
the wonders include The Great Rift Valley in Africa, the Atacama Desert in 
South America, the Grand Canyon in the U.S., the Tree of Life in Bahrain (a 
400-year-old mesquite tree) and others. You get seven votes per e-mail address.

  I think at least one cave should be one of the 7 wonders.,

  Louise

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/14/researchers-develop-higher-efficiency-leds/

Researchers develop higher-efficiency LEDs

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

More habitat is sought for cave critters

_By Anton Caputo _ (http://www.mysanantonio.com/email_us?contentID=37618059)
- Express-News
Web Posted: 01/15/2009 12:00 CST

The Center for Biological Diversity is suing the federal government in an
effort to win more critical habitat for 18 endangered species, including 12
found in or near Bexar County.
The lawsuits filed Wednesday are the latest in a series of legal actions by
environmental groups to force the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's hand in
using critical habitat to protect endangered species.
In the case of the species included in the suits, critical habitat was
granted but usually in amounts far less than that recommended by federal
biologists. The Center for Biological Diversity contends that was due to
political
influence by the Bush administration.
“Hopefully, with the new administration, we have an administration that will
take its duty for endangered species more seriously,” said Noah Greenwald,
the group's biodiversity program director.
Ideally, he said, the Obama administration will settle the suit by simply
ordering the Fish and Wildlife Service to reconsider the critical habitat
designations.
The local species in the suit include nine bugs found in one or more caves in
Bexar County: the Robber Baron Cave harvestman; vesper cave spider;
Government Canyon cave spider; Madla's cave spider; Robber Baron cave spider;
Helotes
mold beetle, Cicurina venii; Rhadine exilis; and Cokendolpher cave
harvestman.
In the case of these nine species, Fish and Wildlife originally proposed
designating 9,516 acres in Bexar County as critical habitat. But when the final

designation came out in 2003, it encompassed 1,063 acres.
Also included are three species found in springs in the Hill Country: the
Peck's Cave amphipod; Comal Springs dryopid beetle; and Comal Springs riffle
beetle.
In the case of these three, Fish and Wildlife set aside between 30 and 40
acres each in springs, but, according to the suit, ignored the advice of some
experts to designate critical habitat in the Edwards Aquifer, which provides
water for the springs.
The San Antonio-based Aquifer Guardians in Urban Areas is working with the
Center for Biological diversity in the legal action.
The critical habitat designation has long been a lightning rod for those who
are opposed to the Endangered Species Act, and Fish and Wildlife under the
Bush administration typically refused to designate critical habitat unless
ordered by a court.
Once land is designated critical habitat, it is more difficult to develop if
a federal permit or funding is needed.
The only other species involved in the lawsuits found in Texas is the
Arkansas River shiner, which can be found in the Canadian River in the
Panhandle.
The other species are the San Bernardino kangaroo rat; the Riverside fairy
shrimp; Coachella Valley milk-vetch; Peirson's milk-vetch; and the willowy
Monardella.
_http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/environment/37618059.html_
(http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/environment/37618059.html)
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Ian please send me your email address.  Anyone else who has it feel free
also, you may very well send it before he wakes up...
 
Russ
Llano
 

COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and attachments may contain information which 
is company confidential and proprietary. Disclosure or use of any such 
information without the written permission of Weston Solutions, Inc. is 
strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the 
sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank You.

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---
He may have meant "wotanly"... Wotan = Odin...

T.

-----Original Message-----
From: Louise Power
Sent: Jan 13, 2009 7:16 PM
To: Gill Ediger , Texas Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] ribbing and critiquing

Now Gill, I'm sure you wouldn't want to be left out of the spelling corrections. To wit:

You said:

"It's long been my practice to avoid ribbing or critiquing folks wontanly ..."

wan·ton (wntn)

adj.
1. Immoral or unchaste; lewd.

2.
a. Gratuitously cruel; merciless.

b. Marked by unprovoked, gratuitous maliciousness; capricious and unjust: wanton destruction.

3. Unrestrainedly excessive: wanton extravagance; wanton depletion of oil reserves.

4. Luxuriant; overabundant: wanton tresses.

5. Frolicsome; playful.

6. Undisciplined; spoiled.

7. Obsolete Rebellious; refractory.

"...tenatious residue of his fiscal prostitution..."

Did you mean tenacious?

Definition:

[adj] sticking together; "two coherent sheets"; "tenacious burrs"
[adj] (of memory) having greater than average range; "a long memory especially for insults"; "a tenacious memory"
[adj] stubbornly unyielding; "dogged persistence"; "dour determination"; "the most vocal and pertinacious of all the critics"; "a mind not gifted to discover truth but tenacious to hold it"- T.S.Eliot; "men tenacious of opinion"

Once a proofreader, always a proofreader!

Kindly, Louise
http://home.infionline.net/~tbsamsel/
--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Hola! We had a fabulous TSA winter meeting at Colorado Bend State Park on 
January 11, 2009. The fascinating minutes can be viewed at:
 
 http://cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html 
 
Thanks!!
 
Denise Prendergast (TSA Secretary)
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

To all PAID TSA members, 
 
 
 
It was decided this past weekend at the Winter Business Meeting at CBSP that in 
order to forestall an increase in TSA member fees, due mainly to the cost of 
printing the TC, we would like to offer PAID members the option of accessing 
The TEXAS CAVER electronically. 
 
Since the bulk of the TSA budget involves printing the TC, the current $20 
membership fee is insufficient to cover the cost of printing and mailing the 
TC, calculated at $26 per member/copy.
 
 
Do the math!
 
 
We did not think this was the best use of membership monies and our cash 
reserves would soon be depleted at this rate.
 
 
This where you come in.
 
 
Through the technical wizardry of our webmaster extraordinaire, Butch Fralia, 
PAID TSA members can now sign themselves up to view the latest TC online, each 
and every time!
 
But, that's not all! 
 
 
"What else do I get by doing this and why should I bother?!"
 
 
Here's why:
 
 
·                     It will prevent a membership dues increase, hopefully, 
for quite a long time. In these tough economic times, who wants that?!
 
·                     This will free up a HUGE amount of TSA funds that can be 
better utilized on projects, other activities, equipment, and other more 
                       worthwhile pursuits.
 
·                     You will have helped get the TSA "Back in Black", 
hopefully, to stay.
 
·                     You will be able to view and download the latest TC in 
glorious FULL color, not just the cover in color in the mailed version.
 
·                     You will be able to view and download past issues of the 
TC in glorious FULL color, not just the cover in color mailed version. All of 
                      the 2008 issues are already online and past issues that 
moi has been the Editor of will soon be added. Any back issues we can get our  
                      grubby hands on will be added, as well!
 
·                     That tree-hugging part of you will rest peacefully in 
knowing that you have helped preserve many a conifer by opting for the 
electronic 
                      version over the paper version.
 
·                     And no matter where you may roam, you will have access to 
the good ol' TC and the frustrated Editor and Secretary will not have to 
                      deal with the dreaded "Return To Sender/Addressee Not 
Found".
 
 
Not to mention that it just makes good financial sense.
 
 
All new registrations will be listed as pending, initially, while your 
membership is verified before you will have membership access. 
 
Butch has added Darla and Denise as administrators and they will verify that 
you are a "Member in Good Standing" and will check this periodically. You will 
be notified if your dues are about to expire and will be unceremoniously kicked 
off if your dues are not renewed.
 
In other words, "No TC for you!" (Seinfeld reference).
 
The member area is linked in from the main menu at www.cavetexas.org.  Be sure 
to buy one or five ICS Registration Raffle tickets, while you're there!
 
If we could get just 50% participation in the electronic version program, one 
would be hard-pressed to find any red ink in next year's budget. The more the 
better, though.
 
 
However, please do not share your password info with the unwashed TSA 
non-member! 
 
 
If they would like to receive the TC, encourage them to do the right and just 
thing by being a true American and joining the TSA!
 
 
In closing, the Board and I implore, beseech, beg, encourage, and strongly 
suggest you sign up today!
 
 
Put the word out to your Grotto and to other cavers! 
 
 
Help the TSA and help save a tree!
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
Mark Alman and the TSA Board

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Mark and Butch,

>Through the technical wizardry of our webmaster extraordinaire, Butch Fralia, 
>PAID TSA members can now sign themselves up to view the latest TC online, each 
>and every time!

      When I tried to register, the site would not allow me to select Virginia 
as my state.  I tried it on both Internet Explorer and Firefox, and both times 
it returned the page with the state blank and an error saying I needed to 
select a state.  Selecting Virginia a second time simply gave the same error.  
Please fix this registration page so that non-Texans may register!

>Butch has added Darla and Denise as administrators and they will verify that 
>you are a "Member in Good Standing" and will check this periodically. You will 
>be notified if your dues are about to expire and will be unceremoniously 
>kicked off if your dues are not renewed.
>In other words, "No TC for you!" (Seinfeld reference).

       While I wholeheartedly support electronic newsletters, I take exception 
to denying access to all past issues after one's membership lapses.  All issues 
published while one was an active member should remain accessible to that 
person even after their membership expires.  This is the biggest failing of 
many electronic journals, especially for libraries.  With the paper version, 
all issues you pay for are yours forever.  With the electronic version, one now 
has nothing if their membership lapses.  It doesn't have to be that way, 
although I suspect it is considerably more complex to implement.  Some 
electronic journals do indeed allow one continued access to all issues paid 
for, but no others.  Texas Caver should be the same.  Please consider revising 
your policy so that we get to keep access to what we pay for.

Thanks,
Mark Minton

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:46:24 -0700 [email protected] wrote:
> and both times it returned the page with the state blank and
> an error saying I needed to select a state. 

I kept mine blank and the registration went through without trouble.

> With the paper version, all issues you pay for are
> yours forever. 

No pun intented. But while viewing the online version of TC, you can always 
print it out of your own computer's printer and that printed copy can be yours 
forever.

--
Lyndon Tiu

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

I see your point, Mark.
 
Like you said, implementation may be another story.
 
 
BTW, I just finished reading your and Matt's account in the NSS News of your 
historical trip to Mexico.
 
 
Congrats and a very entertaining article!
 
 
Mark A.
 

________________________________

From: Minton, Mark [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thu 1/15/2009 1:46 PM
To: TexasCavers
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: The TEXAS CAVER Is Now Online!!!!



Mark and Butch,

>Butch has added Darla and Denise as administrators and they will verify that 
>you are a "Member in Good Standing" and will check this periodically. You will 
>be notified if your dues are about to expire and will be unceremoniously 
>kicked off if your dues are not renewed.
>In other words, "No TC for you!" (Seinfeld reference).

       While I wholeheartedly support electronic newsletters, I take exception 
to denying access to all past issues after one's membership lapses.  All issues 
published while one was an active member should remain accessible to that 
person even after their membership expires.  This is the biggest failing of 
many electronic journals, especially for libraries.  With the paper version, 
all issues you pay for are yours forever.  With the electronic version, one now 
has nothing if their membership lapses.  It doesn't have to be that way, 
although I suspect it is considerably more complex to implement.  Some 
electronic journals do indeed allow one continued access to all issues paid 
for, but no others.  Texas Caver should be the same.  Please consider revising 
your policy so that we get to keep access to what we pay for.

Thanks,
Mark Minton

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:50:25 -0800 [email protected] wrote:
> > With the paper version, all issues you pay for are
> > yours forever. 
> 
> 
> No pun intented.

I meant "intenDed"

> But while viewing the online version of TC, you can
> always print it out of your own computer's printer and that printed
> copy can be yours forever.
> 

--
Lyndon Tiu

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

      Lyndon said:

>>both times it returned the page with the state blank and an error saying I 
>>needed to select a state. 
>I kept mine blank and the registration went through without trouble.

      Okay; thanks!  I'll try that if it doesn't get fixed soon.  It would be 
nice to have my state properly listed along with the address, although of 
course one could figure it out from the zip code if necessary.

>But while viewing the online version of TC, you can always print it out of 
>your own computer's printer and that printed copy can be yours forever.

      Of course, assuming one has a printer.  But that sort of defeats the 
purpose of having an electronic copy so that one doesn't use up a lot of paper. 
 Actually, if the online Texas Caver issues are pdf documents, then one could 
simply save those to their personal hard drive, preserving them for future use. 
 That's a wise thing to do anyway, in case the TSA server ever goes away.  
Another big advantage of electronic newsletters is that they can be searched, 
which makes finding things a lot easier.

Mark Minton

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

Mark, and the rest of the TSA board, a big THANK YOU!

This was long overdue, but a great step.

Charles

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:08 PM,  <[email protected]> wrote:
> To all PAID TSA members,
>
>
>
> It was decided this past weekend at the Winter Business Meeting at CBSP that
> in order to forestall an increase in TSA member fees, due mainly to the cost
> of printing the TC, we would like to offer PAID members the option of
> accessing The TEXAS CAVER electronically.
>
> Since the bulk of the TSA budget involves printing the TC, the current $20
> membership fee is insufficient to cover the cost of printing and mailing the
> TC, calculated at $26 per member/copy.
>
>
> Do the math!
>
>
> We did not think this was the best use of membership monies and our cash
> reserves would soon be depleted at this rate.
>
>
> This where you come in.
>
>
> Through the technical wizardry of our webmaster extraordinaire, Butch
> Fralia, PAID TSA members can now sign themselves up to view the latest TC
> online, each and every time!
>
> But, that's not all!
>
>
> "What else do I get by doing this and why should I bother?!"
>
>
> Here's why:
>
>
> ·                     It will prevent a membership dues increase, hopefully,
> for quite a long time. In these tough economic times, who wants that?!
>
> ·                     This will free up a HUGE amount of TSA funds that can
> be better utilized on projects, other activities, equipment, and other more
>                        worthwhile pursuits.
>
> ·                     You will have helped get the TSA "Back in Black",
> hopefully, to stay.
>
> ·                     You will be able to view and download the latest TC in
> glorious FULL color, not just the cover in color in the mailed version.
>
> ·                     You will be able to view and download past issues of
> the TC in glorious FULL color, not just the cover in color mailed version.
> All of
>                       the 2008 issues are already online and past issues
> that moi has been the Editor of will soon be added. Any back issues we can
> get our
>                       grubby hands on will be added, as well!
>
> ·                     That tree-hugging part of you will rest peacefully in
> knowing that you have helped preserve many a conifer by opting for the
> electronic
>                       version over the paper version.
>
> ·                     And no matter where you may roam, you will have access
> to the good ol' TC and the frustrated Editor and Secretary will not have to
>                       deal with the dreaded "Return To Sender/Addressee Not
> Found".
>
>
> Not to mention that it just makes good financial sense.
>
>
> All new registrations will be listed as pending, initially, while your
> membership is verified before you will have membership access.
>
> Butch has added Darla and Denise as administrators and they will verify that
> you are a "Member in Good Standing" and will check this periodically. You
> will be notified if your dues are about to expire and will be
> unceremoniously kicked off if your dues are not renewed.
>
> In other words, "No TC for you!" (Seinfeld reference).
>
> The member area is linked in from the main menu at www.cavetexas.org.  Be
> sure to buy one or five ICS Registration Raffle tickets, while you're there!
>
> If we could get just 50% participation in the electronic version program,
> one would be hard-pressed to find any red ink in next year's budget. The
> more the better, though.
>
>
> However, please do not share your password info with the unwashed TSA
> non-member!
>
>
> If they would like to receive the TC, encourage them to do the right and
> just thing by being a true American and joining the TSA!
>
>
> In closing, the Board and I implore, beseech, beg, encourage, and strongly
> suggest you sign up today!
>
>
> Put the word out to your Grotto and to other cavers!
>
>
> Help the TSA and help save a tree!
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Alman and the TSA Board
>

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message ---

You're welcome, Charles.


That's why we get paid the big bucks! 

Oh, wait! I wasn't supposed to say that.   8^)>



Thanks,

Mark




-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:07 PM
To: Alman, Mark @ IRP
Cc: TexasCavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The TEXAS CAVER Is Now Online!!!!

Mark, and the rest of the TSA board, a big THANK YOU!

This was long overdue, but a great step.

Charles

--- End Message ---

texascavers Digest 15 Jan 2009 20:08:56 -0000 Issue 687

Reply via email to