texascavers Digest 23 Sep 2008 18:00:00 -0000 Issue 612
Topics (messages 8989 through 8995):
Re: Airmen's Cave
8989 by: Carl Kunath
8990 by: Sandi Calhoun
8995 by: Jules Jenkins
Ariman's Cave
8991 by: Mixon Bill
8993 by: Jules Jenkins
Re: Airmans Cave rescue discussion
8992 by: Jim Kennedy
Screening this Thursday
8994 by: Joe Datri
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--- Begin Message ---
Julie, thanks for sharing those very well-considered thoughts. You are
absolutely correct. Often, it is tempting to share a little too much
information beyond the appropriate venue.
===Carl Kunath
----- Original Message -----
From: Jules Jenkins
To: Texas Cavers ; John Brooks
Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave
All,
I generally wouldn't respond to this type of email, I'd view it, enjoy
it, and toss it. However, for more than a decade a couple of us have worked
with the city of Austin to develop a trust relationship, to embody the cave
community as a responsible group of individuals who care about the karst and
protecting our cave resources. We've worked very diligently to help the city
feel comfortable and safe with cavers and their activities. In other words,
we've built ourselves into a position as an asset to the city for their caves,
we're the unofficial 'eyes and ears on the karst'. The local caving community
does lots of outreach, education, and guides lots and lots of cave trips. This
relationship which, at best allows cavers a lot of freedom in usage is also
very tenuous and problems often have resulted in cavers loosing access, even
when it's not been a caver caused problem. I feel compelled to respond to this
email posting and hope that by addressing this I don't inflame the caver
community but, rather get you all to think and consider the impact of your
actions.
Although these video segments are somewhat factual and somewhat
amusing, it's posting video's such as these, providing exact directions and
encouraging the internet world at large by providing so much info that it
threatens the continued open access to this cave and potentially other Austin
area caves owned by the city.
The August 2007 Airmen's search, which one of these guys states he was
involved with has still not been resolved and the city of Austin, who owns the
cave is still seriously looking at gating the cave. This sort of encouragement
and advertisement of the cave will NOT help the situation.
I can appreciate that with all our technology, gps, video, digital
cameras, internet etc. that it's tough to maintain the caver 'ethic' of NOT
giving out locations but, if we as the caving community do not continue this
practice we will very likely loose access to this cave and perhaps if we're not
more cautious and responsible for our actions we could loose access to the
other caves in Austin that cavers currently have access to.
Having been called out by the fire dept. on the August search for the
UT students, I don't recall these guys at all being involved but, then I was
busy locating the students. What I learned from the experience and can share
w/the entire caving community is that the city has huge very real concerns over
location information going out to the internet and this kind of information as
well as videos on utube, links being sent out w/photos from trips that were
taken to caves that are only open for scientific research access. This puts our
caving community in a very tenuous position with the city decision makers. We
stand to loose our access privprivilegesause this kind of widespread and
specific information increases the potential for unprepared individuals to
attempt to do the cave trip, likely resulting in other 'rescues' or 'searches',
which translates to problems, lots of $$'s on the part of the city, lots of
outcry from the tax paying public, and potential life threatening danger to the
non prepared cave visitor.
Whether you all live in Austin or not, every incident right, wrong, or
indifferent reflects on the Austin caving community. If we're shut out, and ALL
the caves gated, access denied, then we all loose. It may not make a difference
to non Austin cavers but, it does make a difference to the Austin caving
community.
I've just been contacted again by the city to meet to look at the
problems and issues that have arisen regarding 'rescues', the cost the Austin's
citizens (nearly 20K for this last incident with UT students) and the potential
liability for the city, and it's going to be very difficult to emploimplorecity
to leave Airmen's open, and to allow cavers continued access when cavers
continue to publicize locations, names, and techniques. And believe me, they
will have already seen this email link before we meet at the end of the week,
you see they're on cavetex, too.!!
This is a plea to the caving community to discontinue publicizing by
whatever method directions, locations, how-to's, and commentary about caves in
general but, more specifically Austin caves. Y'all are killin' us in Austin
and we're not going to be able to justify asking that the caves remain open
with so much info out on the internet.
Conversely, from the city prospective whose mandate is one of
protecting the public both from danger and from unreasonable costs to the city
and it's tax paying citizens, duh, it's gonna make sense for them to gate the
cave reduce or eliminate the problem or potential for problems.
Y'all are making this a battle that can't be won by providing this sort
of detailed information.
And I gotta tell you once it's gone we're not likely to ever get it
back.
Again, please think before you decide you're going to post something to
the internet. If you gotta share, do it with a small select group, not the
world and not cavetex at large.
You know anyone can join cavetex and there are several city staff folks
who read cavetex.
If we don't police ourselves, the city, who owns most of the caves in
Austin area will police us, and that will take the form of NO ACCESS at worst
and very controlled, limited access at best.
thanks,
Julie Jenkins
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, John Brooks <[email protected]> wrote:
From: John Brooks <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave
To: "Texas Cavers" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 1:37 AM
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: Joe Zamecki <[email protected]>
Date: September 21, 2008 11:45:48 PM CDT
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Airmen's Cave
Howdy! I went with a friend into Airmen's Cave, the first few dozen
feet anyway, and we got
some nice video. I wanted to share it with you and your group:
1 Getting There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzdmqtNRWo
2 Getting Into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQLND4X94t4
3 Getting Out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYek28q95hI
4 Chattin': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThWzE6JwM8g
Seeya!
Joe Zamecki
Austin, TX
--------------------------------------------------------------------
See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are
part of your life. See Now
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I second Julie's post. I was also a part of the August 07 rescue, and would not
want to do it again (although I would if necessary). I'm sure the youtube clips
were well-intentioned, and I in no way want to bitch at anyone here, but not
everyone can or should go into a cave.
Sandi
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jules Jenkins
> To: Texas Cavers ; John Brooks
> Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave
>
>
> All,
> I generally wouldn't respond to this type of email, I'd view it,
> enjoy it, and toss it. However, for more than a decade a couple of us have
> worked with the city of Austin to develop a trust relationship, to embody the
> cave community as a responsible group of individuals who care about the karst
> and protecting our cave resources. We've worked very diligently to help the
> city feel comfortable and safe with cavers and their activities. In other
> words, we've built ourselves into a position as an asset to the city for
> their caves, we're the unofficial 'eyes and ears on the karst'. The local
> caving community does lots of outreach, education, and guides lots and lots
> of cave trips. This relationship which, at best allows cavers a lot of
> freedom in usage is also very tenuous and problems often have resulted in
> cavers loosing access, even when it's not been a caver caused problem. I feel
> compelled to respond to this email posting and hope that by addressing this
> I don't inflame the caver community but, rather get you all to think and
> consider the impact of your actions.
>
> Although these video segments are somewhat factual and somewhat
> amusing, it's posting video's such as these, providing exact directions and
> encouraging the internet world at large by providing so much info that it
> threatens the continued open access to this cave and potentially other Austin
> area caves owned by the city.
>
> The August 2007 Airmen's search, which one of these guys states he
> was involved with has still not been resolved and the city of Austin, who
> owns the cave is still seriously looking at gating the cave. This sort of
> encouragement and advertisement of the cave will NOT help the situation.
>
> I can appreciate that with all our technology, gps, video, digital
> cameras, internet etc. that it's tough to maintain the caver 'ethic' of NOT
> giving out locations but, if we as the caving community do not continue this
> practice we will very likely loose access to this cave and perhaps if we're
> not more cautious and responsible for our actions we could loose access to
> the other caves in Austin that cavers currently have access to.
>
> Having been called out by the fire dept. on the August search for the
> UT students, I don't recall these guys at all being involved but, then I was
> busy locating the students. What I learned from the experience and can share
> w/the entire caving community is that the city has huge very real concerns
> over location information going out to the internet and this kind of
> information as well as videos on utube, links being sent out w/photos from
> trips that were taken to caves that are only open for scientific research
> access. This puts our caving community in a very tenuous position with the
> city decision makers. We stand to loose our access privprivilegesause this
> kind of widespread and specific information increases the potential for
> unprepared individuals to attempt to do the cave trip, likely resulting in
> other 'rescues' or 'searches', which translates to problems, lots of $$'s on
> the part of the city, lots of outcry from the tax paying public, and
> potential life threatening danger to the non prepared cave visitor.
>
> Whether you all live in Austin or not, every incident right, wrong,
> or indifferent reflects on the Austin caving community. If we're shut out,
> and ALL the caves gated, access denied, then we all loose. It may not make a
> difference to non Austin cavers but, it does make a difference to the Austin
> caving community.
>
> I've just been contacted again by the city to meet to look at the
> problems and issues that have arisen regarding 'rescues', the cost the
> Austin's citizens (nearly 20K for this last incident with UT students) and
> the potential liability for the city, and it's going to be very difficult to
> emploimplorecity to leave Airmen's open, and to allow cavers continued access
> when cavers continue to publicize locations, names, and techniques. And
> believe me, they will have already seen this email link before we meet at the
> end of the week, you see they're on cavetex, too.!!
>
> This is a plea to the caving community to discontinue publicizing by
> whatever method directions, locations, how-to's, and commentary about caves
> in general but, more specifically Austin caves. Y'all are killin' us in
> Austin and we're not going to be able to justify asking that the caves remain
> open with so much info out on the internet.
>
> Conversely, from the city prospective whose mandate is one of
> protecting the public both from danger and from unreasonable costs to the
> city and it's tax paying citizens, duh, it's gonna make sense for them to
> gate the cave reduce or eliminate the problem or potential for problems.
> Y'all are making this a battle that can't be won by providing this
> sort of detailed information.
> And I gotta tell you once it's gone we're not likely to ever get it
> back.
>
> Again, please think before you decide you're going to post something
> to the internet. If you gotta share, do it with a small select group, not the
> world and not cavetex at large.
> You know anyone can join cavetex and there are several city staff
> folks who read cavetex.
> If we don't police ourselves, the city, who owns most of the caves in
> Austin area will police us, and that will take the form of NO ACCESS at worst
> and very controlled, limited access at best.
>
> thanks,
> Julie Jenkins
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/23/08, John Brooks <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> From: John Brooks <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave
> To: "Texas Cavers" <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 1:37 AM
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> From: Joe Zamecki <[email protected]>
> Date: September 21, 2008 11:45:48 PM CDT
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Airmen's Cave
>
>
> Howdy! I went with a friend into Airmen's Cave, the first few
> dozen feet anyway, and we got
> some nice video. I wanted to share it with you and your group:
>
> 1 Getting There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzdmqtNRWo
> 2 Getting Into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQLND4X94t4
> 3 Getting Out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYek28q95hI
> 4 Chattin': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThWzE6JwM8g
>
> Seeya!
> Joe Zamecki
> Austin, TX
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that
> are part of your life. See Now
>
>
Sandi Calhoun
EID: SKC452
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe,
I'm not arguing your right or thoughts as someone who considers themselves a
caver but, I know from experience that if the Austin caver community doesn't
consider this matter an important issue we as a caver community will either
have very limited or no access to City of Austin owned caves.
This is not about what I think is worth sharing or not, it's about what I hear
from the city staff because I'm one of the folks who is contacted when there's
an issue or problem. I want the caves in Austin available in perpetuity. What I
don't want is for cavers to loose access because of world-wide information
about how and where the cave is located. There's a reason all the other city
caves are gated, Joe and if we don't want that to happen to Airmen's we need to
take care about what info we make available.
Hey, feel free
to take whomever you like but, please don't publicize it to the whole world.
Publicize it to your friends and family and others who you care about, just not
the whole world.
I don't have a negative attitude about our caves quite the opposite, I've
dedicated years to helping insure that cavers such as you Joe have access to
Austin caves and you are not helping that situation. Potentially your attitude
is what might cost cavers access. Point of fact is it doesn't matter what you
think should be the access for Airmen's, it's not YOUR cave and if cavers don't
help the issues regarding Airmen's or any other city owned caves we're not
going to be able to use them, it's that simple. We don't own it.
For the past 20+ years that I've been caving and I'm sure for years before that
there has been a caver - landowner relationship effort. If you want access you
don't mess with the landowners wishes and that what's at risk here with your
attitude Joe. I'm delighted you're proud of
caving as am I however it doesn't mean that you do what you want at the risk
of messing access up for the whole caver community.
I'm not suggesting that you not be proud nor am I suggesting that you don't
take video's. I am suggesting that the community limit the world-wide access to
what you film as it has potentially detrimental consequences to cave access in
Austin with city of Austin caves.
Joe, I'm asking for your help to insure that we do have access to Airmen's and
other Austin caves and I implore all of Texas cavers and especially Austin area
cavers to help explain to Joe what happens when we piss of the cave owners. Who
suffers regardless of who is at fault, it's always been cavers.
julie
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, Joe Zamecki <[email protected]>
wrote:
From: Joe Zamecki <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave
To: [email protected], "Texas Cavers" <[email protected]>, "John
Brooks" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 4:56 PM
#yiv67552084 #yiv1131423264 .hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv67552084 #yiv1131423264 {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}
Ouch. A negative attitude about caves and Austin. I think Airmen's Cave should
be opened up to the public, more than it is, and not hidden like it's an
eyesore. Just because you think it's not worth sharing, don't bother me about
that.
The caving community ought to utilizing video and sites like Youtube. We have
something great in our caves, and I'm going to share them with pride. Shame on
anyone who wants to hide the beauty of Austin.
Joe Zamecki
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 07:14:39 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; [email protected]
All,
I generally wouldn't respond to this type of email, I'd view it, enjoy it, and
toss it. However, for more than a decade a couple of us have worked with the
city of Austin to develop a trust relationship, to embody the cave community as
a responsible group of individuals who care about the karst and protecting our
cave resources. We've worked very diligently to help the city feel comfortable
and safe with cavers and their activities. In other words, we've built
ourselves into a position as an asset to the city for their caves, we're the
unofficial 'eyes and ears on the karst'. The local caving community does lots
of outreach, education, and guides lots and lots of cave trips. This
relationship which, at best allows cavers a lot of freedom in usage is also
very tenuous and problems often have resulted in cavers loosing access, even
when it's not been a caver caused problem. I feel compelled to respond to this
email posting and hope that by addressing this I don't inflame the caver
community but, rather get you all to think and consider the impact of your
actions.
Although these video segments are somewhat factual and somewhat amusing, it's
posting video's such as these, providing exact directions and encouraging the
internet world at large by providing so much info that it threatens the
continued open access to this cave and potentially other Austin area caves
owned by the city.
The August 2007 Airmen's search, which one of these guys states he was involved
with has still not been resolved and the city of Austin, who owns the cave is
still seriously looking at gating the cave. This sort of encouragement and
advertisement of the cave will NOT help the situation.
I can appreciate that with all our technology, gps, video, digital cameras,
internet etc. that it's tough to maintain the caver 'ethic' of NOT giving out
locations
but, if we as the caving community do not continue this practice we will very
likely loose access to this cave and perhaps if we're not more cautious and
responsible for our actions we could loose access to the other caves in Austin
that cavers currently have access to.
Having been called out by the fire dept. on the August search for the UT
students, I don't recall these guys at all being involved but, then I was busy
locating the students. What I learned from the experience and can share w/the
entire caving community is that the city has huge very real concerns over
location information going out to the internet and this kind of information as
well as videos on utube, links being sent out w/photos from trips that were
taken to caves that are only open for scientific research access. This puts our
caving community in a very tenuous position with the city decision makers. We
stand to loose our access privprivilegesause this kind of
widespread and specific information increases the potential for unprepared
individuals to attempt to do the cave trip, likely resulting in other 'rescues'
or 'searches', which translates to problems, lots of $$'s on the part of the
city, lots of outcry from the tax paying public, and potential life threatening
danger to the non prepared cave visitor.
Whether you all live in Austin or not, every incident right, wrong, or
indifferent reflects on the Austin caving community. If we're shut out, and ALL
the caves gated, access denied, then we all loose. It may not make a difference
to non Austin cavers but, it does make a difference to the Austin caving
community.
I've just been contacted again by the city to meet to look at the problems and
issues that have arisen regarding 'rescues', the cost the Austin's citizens
(nearly 20K for this last incident with UT students) and the potential
liability for the city, and it's going to be very difficult
to emploimplorecity to leave Airmen's open, and to allow cavers continued
access when cavers continue to publicize locations, names, and techniques. And
believe me, they will have already seen this email link before we meet at the
end of the week, you see they're on cavetex, too.!!
This is a plea to the caving community to discontinue publicizing by whatever
method directions, locations, how-to's, and commentary about caves in general
but, more specifically Austin caves. Y'all are killin' us in Austin and we're
not going to be able to justify asking that the caves remain open with so much
info out on the internet.
Conversely, from the city prospective whose mandate is one of protecting the
public both from danger and from unreasonable costs to the city and it's tax
paying citizens, duh, it's gonna make sense for them to gate the cave reduce or
eliminate the problem or potential for problems.
Y'all are making this a battle
that can't be won by providing this sort of detailed information.
And I gotta tell you once it's gone we're not likely to ever get it back.
Again, please think before you decide you're going to post something to the
internet. If you gotta share, do it with a small select group, not the world
and not cavetex at large.
You know anyone can join cavetex and there are several city staff folks who
read cavetex.
If we don't police ourselves, the city, who owns most of the caves in Austin
area will police us, and that will take the form of NO ACCESS at worst and very
controlled, limited access at best.
thanks,
Julie Jenkins
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, John Brooks <[email protected]> wrote:
From: John Brooks <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Airmen's Cave
To: "Texas Cavers" <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 1:37 AM
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: Joe Zamecki <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: September 21, 2008 11:45:48 PM CDT
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Airmen's Cave
Howdy! I went with a friend into Airmen's Cave, the first few dozen feet
anyway, and we got
some nice video. I wanted to share it with you and your group:
1 Getting There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzdmqtNRWo
2 Getting Into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQLND4X94t4
3 Getting Out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYek28q95hI
4 Chattin': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThWzE6JwM8g
Seeya!
Joe Zamecki
Austin, TX
See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your
life. See Now
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not that I want to disagree with Julie's plea not to overly publicize
Airman's Cave, but I do want to point out some of the nonsense that is
a continual pet peeve of mine whenever public-agency involvement in
cave rescues is discussed.
1) It is not the cavers' fault that the agencies overreact. The
situation could have been resolved just as well (better, actually, by
avoiding publicity) by one city employee making one phone call to one
caver.
2) The allocation of costs is usually completely phony. It is
extremely unlikely that the search for missing cavers in Airman's cost
the public $20,000. How much gasoline did it take to power all those
flashing red lights? They must be adding in the salaries of all the
city emergency personnel who would have been being paid whether there
was anything for them to do or not.
The city goes way out of its way to cause itself problems or at least
pretend to ("your tax dollars at work."). That's no basis for deciding
public policy.
-- Bill Mixon
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mixon's response it just the type of response that concerns me. You know
nothing about it and have never been involved and yet you're immediate response
is a negative one.
In response to your #1. Despite what you think and I agree it's not caver's
fault but you don't actually know that as you are not involved. So your
response doesn't matter when we DO NOT OWN THE RESOURCE. It's whatever the
owner thinks. It's also the way the emergency contact process for 911 works,
deal with it.
What you state makes sense but, that's not reality. Reality is the city has a
process as does the EMS and Fire Dept. thus our option if we wish to be
involved is to follow their process and act accordingly. The fact is that
cavers were called as soon as it was determined that they we not familiar
enough nor experienced enough to deal completely with the situation, that was
within one hour of the original 911 call.
If we want access, we do what the powers that be request and then hopefully are
asked for input on improvements to the process.
2. Again, you know nothing of the cost, what all was involved with equipment
and manpower, time, or protocols. So, it's best not to go out on a limb to
suggest that the city process and budget is phony. YOU don't even live in the
city of Austin, what do you know? Have you sat on any city boards? Do you
attend any meetings w/city staff to work on cave access issues? Do you get
called out for cave rescues, or called to provide cave related education or
training for EMS and the Fire Dept. - NO, that's what I thought.
This is not a discussion about Austin's policies and budget spending, it's a
discussion about how cavers can work w/the city, maintain a good relationship,
and hopefully thru example, demonstrate our responsible actions on the karst
and with Austin's karst resources and thus retain the considerable amount of
flexibility and freedom to visit the city of Austin owned caves.
If you have facts I'm very interested in hearing them otherwise I'd appreciate
your not speculating about the policies and finances of the city of Austin, it
only serves to cloud the issue which, is too much info about our caves on the
internet. The bottom line is that if we don't take care, we, CAVERS loose
access.
If you're that certain about the city policies, expenditures etc. I encourage
you to move into Austin and get involved. Put your money, or better yet your
time, where you mouth is but, please don't just comment and speculate from out
in Hays County. Your pet peeve does NOTHING to help the situation.
julie
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, Mixon Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Mixon Bill <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Ariman's Cave
To: "Cavers Texas" <[email protected]>
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 3:52 PM
Not that I want to disagree with Julie's plea not to overly publicize
Airman's Cave, but I do want to point out some of the nonsense that is
a continual pet peeve of mine whenever public-agency involvement in
cave rescues is discussed.
1) It is not the cavers' fault that the agencies overreact. The
situation could have been resolved just as well (better, actually, by
avoiding publicity) by one city employee making one phone call to one
caver.
2) The allocation of costs is usually completely phony. It is
extremely unlikely that the search for missing cavers in Airman's cost
the public $20,000. How much gasoline did it take to power all those
flashing red lights? They must be adding in the salaries of all the
city emergency personnel who would have been being paid whether there
was anything for them to do or not.
The city goes way out of its way to cause itself problems or at least
pretend to ("your tax dollars at work."). That's no basis for
deciding
public policy.
-- Bill Mixon
----------------------------------------------
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AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
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--- Begin Message ---
Bill, I usually respect your observations, but this time you are way off
base. EMS is legally not allowed to operate on a "one phone call to one
caver" status. They have to consider worst-case scenarios. Having been
involved with a lot of cave rescues over the years, my thought is that
the August Airmans incident was actually pretty low-key. I think that
DJ and crew kept it very real and used an entirely appropriate level of
response. It is not the fault of EMS or cavers that there was so much
media coverage. It's Austin, for goodness sake, in the middle of our
beloved Barton Creek Greenbelt. Just try to keep ANYTHING a secret
there! And as for the costs, maybe the EMS was getting paid to be there
(maybe not, some of them might have been off-duty), but I know for sure
that Bill Russell, Julie Jenkins, Mike Sisson, and all the other cavers
that showed up were not getting paid for it. Time, mileage, equipment
--- it's all known as "in-kind" contributions, and is a part of the true
cost of the operation. I suspect that there were some other expendables
added in to the total also, such as phone wire, food, batteries, and so
on. Yes, these things do add up. Very quickly.
-- Jim Kennedy, former NCRC instructor
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Hey all,
Last weekend a bunch of cavers got together and entered a film race to
make a movie in 24 hours. We received the theme at 10pm on Friday
night and worked like crazy, non-stop until 10pm on Saturday night.
We completed the film and handed it in at 9:56pm!
A screening is scheduled this Thursday at the Dobie Theater, 7pm.
Everyone is invited to come out and support your fellow cavers. Come
see Gary Franklin, Saj Pierson, Sandi Calhon in their big screen
premiere!
The film was directed by Joe Datri, and made with the help of Geoff
Hoese, Aimee Beveridge, Terry Holsinger, Mike Pugilise, Grace
Borengasser, Wes Schumacher, Saj Pierson, Sandi Calhon, Drew Thompson,
Heather Tucek, Matt Zapitello, Matt Turner, Devra Heyer, Bill Stone,
Gary Franklin, Jordan, Don Cooper and Scott Leach.
Hope to see you there!
-Joe
P.S. Here is more information about the screening.
Austin Film Race 2008 | Screening this Thursday!
The 2008 Diesel Film Racing Tour came to Austin this past weekend for
the 2nd annual Austin Film Race. Teams of filmmakers were challenged
to create an original 4 minute short film in just 24 hours based on
the following assignment:
THEME : An Invitation
SURPRISE ELEMENT : Action - Pouring Something Down a Drain
Come check out the premiere of the films on Thursday starting at
7:00PM at the Dobie Theater (2025 Guadalupe Street) and vote for your
favorites! Tickets are $9 (cash only) and will be sold at the door on
a first come, first serve basis. Please arrive at least 20 minutes
early. For more info, visit
http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/austin.htm
SCREENING LINEUPS:
--------------------------------------------
Thursday, September 25th, 2008 | 7:00PM - 9:00PM
--------------------------------------------
''Uninvited Success'' by Cavers (JOE DATRI)
''L'Invitation Noir'' by Chaos Films (David Morgan)
''Face Space'' by Two Fools With A Camera (Ryan Mitchell)
''Welcome Home Friend'' by Synchronicity (Jack Lee)
''Cardigan'' by Backyard Films Presents (Jeffry Chaffin)
''The Last Overture'' by Crossing Place Studios (Blas Garcia)
''Instead I Got Drunk'' by Corduroy Crayons (Hunter Smith)
''Voice From A Distant Past'' by JetSetProdigy (Timothy Chew)
''My Seducer Myself'' by burning skunks (arthur kendrick)
''Backside Story'' by Clasico Entertainment (Rob Newcomer)
''Somewhere In The Middle'' by Starship Vickers (Joe Tonahill)
''Ignite the Invite'' by StandinUP! (Andrew Nourse)
Film Racing | www.filmracing.com
(c) 2008 NYC Midnight Movie Making Madness, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
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