texascavers Digest 30 Sep 2008 03:20:54 -0000 Issue 619
Topics (messages 9060 through 9075):
Paging RD Milhalin
9060 by: keith heuss
TCMA Members' Meeting at TCR
9061 by: Linda Palit
Cave photo
9062 by: Bob West
9063 by: Frank Binney
9065 by: Charles Goldsmith
9067 by: J. LaRue Thomas
9074 by: Don Cooper
9075 by: Bob West
the photo
9064 by: Mixon Bill
astrophotography
9066 by: mike.mpphoto.ws
UT Grotto Meeting WEDNESDAY
9068 by: Gary Franklin
Re: The Great Longhorn Cavern Dig Is On, Saturday, October 4th! - Update and
Reminder
9069 by: mark.alman.l-3com.com
Paging Travis Kinchen
9070 by: Johnson, Russ (ATX)
another cave diving fatality
9071 by: David
Texas caver in world news
9072 by: David
9073 by: Don Cooper
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Contact me off list.
Keith
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Texas Cave Management Association will hold a members' meeting at TCR this
year, as usual. We will vote on 4 board members, and will discuss TCMA
business. We will meet Sunday morning at 9:15 am before the TSA meeting.
We will look for the best place to meet, either near the Bexar Grotto area
or near the TCMA Garage Sale area.
We look forward to seeing you there,
Linda Palit
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--- Begin Message ---
Cave photo of the day from the 'astronomy picture of the day' site....
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
Very nice!
Bob
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Hey Bob--
Cool photo....but I wonder if photo shop was involved. If you took an
exposure long enough to get that type of detail in the Milky Way, wouldn¹t
you get star streaks from the Earth¹s rotation during the long exposure
time? Any astro experts out there with an opinion? Or half-astro experts?
Frank
On 9/29/08 10:20 AM, "Bob West" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Cave photo of the day from the 'astronomy picture of the day' site....
>
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
>
> Very nice!
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.
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>From talking to someone here at work that does a lot of
astro-photography, he said that Milky Way image is easily less than a
minute exposure, given really dark skies.
However, he also states that the cave image was probably overlaid from
a 2nd exposure, otherwise you would likely have some movement
indication from inside the cave.
Either way, its a beautiful picture.
Charles
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Frank Binney <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hey Bob--
> Cool photo....but I wonder if photo shop was involved. If you took an
> exposure long enough to get that type of detail in the Milky Way, wouldn't
> you get star streaks from the Earth's rotation during the long exposure
> time? Any astro experts out there with an opinion? Or half-astro experts?
> Frank
>
>
> On 9/29/08 10:20 AM, "Bob West" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Cave photo of the day from the 'astronomy picture of the day' site....
>
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
>
> Very nice!
>
>
>
> Bob
>
> ________________________________
> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows
> Live. See Now <http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/>
>
>
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There's a link to an article about the photographer, Wally Pacholka.
Interesting.
http://www.astropics.com/latimes.htm Jacqui
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Goldsmith" <[email protected]>
To: "Frank Binney" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Bob West" <[email protected]>; "Texas Cavers"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave photo
From talking to someone here at work that does a lot of
astro-photography, he said that Milky Way image is easily less than a
minute exposure, given really dark skies.
However, he also states that the cave image was probably overlaid from
a 2nd exposure, otherwise you would likely have some movement
indication from inside the cave.
Either way, its a beautiful picture.
Charles
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Frank Binney <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hey Bob--
Cool photo....but I wonder if photo shop was involved. If you took an
exposure long enough to get that type of detail in the Milky Way,
wouldn't
you get star streaks from the Earth's rotation during the long exposure
time? Any astro experts out there with an opinion? Or half-astro experts?
Frank
On 9/29/08 10:20 AM, "Bob West" <[email protected]> wrote:
Cave photo of the day from the 'astronomy picture of the day' site....
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
Very nice!
Bob
________________________________
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I'd think the same - Both the interior and exterior could be done from one
exposure - but not the SAME exposure. Or at least one adjusted to the
other. OR DARN sensitive filim!
-WaV
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Charles Goldsmith <[email protected]>wrote:
> From talking to someone here at work that does a lot of
> astro-photography, he said that Milky Way image is easily less than a
> minute exposure, given really dark skies.
>
> However, he also states that the cave image was probably overlaid from
> a 2nd exposure, otherwise you would likely have some movement
> indication from inside the cave.
>
> Either way, its a beautiful picture.
>
> Charles
>
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Frank Binney <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > Hey Bob--
> > Cool photo....but I wonder if photo shop was involved. If you took an
> > exposure long enough to get that type of detail in the Milky Way,
> wouldn't
> > you get star streaks from the Earth's rotation during the long exposure
> > time? Any astro experts out there with an opinion? Or half-astro experts?
> > Frank
> >
> >
> > On 9/29/08 10:20 AM, "Bob West" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Cave photo of the day from the 'astronomy picture of the day' site....
> >
> > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
> >
> > Very nice!
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows
> > Live. See Now <
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/>
> >
> >
>
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>
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The picture explanation states " Pictured above is single exposure image". I
clicked on the "pictured above" link and it took me to:
http://www.twanight.org/newTWAN/photos.asp?ID=3001638
This has more story from Wally about taking the photo.
It's got to be a SENSITIVE camera/sensor.
Can you say "image stabilization"??
Bob
List-Post: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:14:31 -0500From: [email protected]:
[email protected]: Re: [Texascavers] Cave photoCC:
[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
I'd think the same - Both the interior and exterior could be done from one
exposure - but not the SAME exposure. Or at least one adjusted to the other.
OR DARN sensitive filim!-WaV
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Charles Goldsmith <[email protected]> wrote:
>From talking to someone here at work that does a lot ofastro-photography, he
>said that Milky Way image is easily less than aminute exposure, given really
>dark skies.However, he also states that the cave image was probably overlaid
>froma 2nd exposure, otherwise you would likely have some movementindication
>from inside the cave.Either way, its a beautiful picture.Charles
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Frank Binney <[email protected]> wrote:>
Hey Bob--> Cool photo....but I wonder if photo shop was involved. If you took
an> exposure long enough to get that type of detail in the Milky Way, wouldn't>
you get star streaks from the Earth's rotation during the long exposure> time?
Any astro experts out there with an opinion? Or half-astro experts?> Frank>>>
On 9/29/08 10:20 AM, "Bob West" <[email protected]> wrote:>> Cave photo of
the day from the 'astronomy picture of the day' site....>>
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html>> Very nice!>>>> Bob>>
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Yes, it looks fishy to me. I'm not really up on what one can do with a
really fast digital camera these days, but I'd say that Milky Way
would take a tracking telescope no matter what. And since the light
from a crescent moon is at least 20 f-stops dimmer than sunlight, I
would expect to see star trails even from exposing for the distant
mesas.-- Mixon
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I'm by no means an expert in that area but astrophotography involves
stacking sometimes 10-20 images- all in an effort to reduce noise and
reciprocity failures. Most professionals also have cameras that are
more sensitive to UV.
Mike Pugliese
Photographer/DP
570.898.3011
www.mpphoto.ws
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UT Grotto meeting – Wednesday October 1, 2008
www.utgrotto.org
Gill Ediger will be orchestrating a presention as
A Summer Trip to Northern Chihuahua
There were several Austinites involved who will likely provide their input for
segments. Come out to share in an exciting presentation about the caving
adventures of several UT Grotto folks that keep up the tradition of elaborate
Mexican Caving.
The meeting is on Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M.
on the University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall
http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html
Contact Gary [email protected] if you are interested in sharing your cave
related events. We would like to hear from you where you can contribute to the
outstanding success of the UT Grotto Program series.
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All,
This work weekend is fast approaching, the camping is free, and the
weather looks great!
We still have room for more volunteers, so if you'd like to help, please
let me know.
Just a quick follow up:
If you plan on camping on Friday evening, please let me know.
I'm working on seeing if we can get a tour of the cave Saturday evening
or Sunday AM.
More info on this later.
Thanks!
Mark Alman
________________________________
From: Alman, Mark @ IRP
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 10:10 AM
As a follow up, camping will be available at the Longhorn Caverns
Visitor Center.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/park_maps/pwd_mp_
p4507_0020a.pdf
Due to the large influx of guests from the Galveston/Houston area at
Inks Lake SP, due to a rascal named "Ike", all the camping spots were
filled for this weekend.
The Superintendent has been gracious enough to let us use the picnic
area straight down on the map from the visitors center, along the
service road, but I ask you to be on your best behavior and please leave
dogs at home.
We have a very good relationship with the TPWD and they have even
allowed us to use Longhorn caverns SP in the past for TSA Conventions,
so I don't want to ruin it.
Let's also refrain from campfires, although, there are charcoal grills
available.
We need to use the facilities at the Visitors Center while they're open
and use Inks Lake facilities after closing hours.
Thanks again to all who have responded and give me a shout if you'd like
to help out or have additional questions.
Thanks!
Mark Alman
________________________________
From: Alman, Mark @ IRP
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 1:30 PM
All,
You may recall about a month and a half ago that I issued a message
seeking help on digging out an entrance to Longhorn Caverns for the
TPWD, in anticipation of using this entrance for thru trips for the ICS
next year.
Well, our ducks are now in a row and I'm happy to announce that the
first dig (and I hope the only one) will be two weeks from now on
Saturday, October 4th.
We will be meeting at the visitors' center at Longhorn Caverns State
Park at 9 AM and caravan from there to the Crownover entrance needing to
be dug out.
Please bring any tools and equipment that you might think is necessary,
i.e., shovels, buckets, rope, pick axes, chainsaws, dynamite (just
kidding on that last one!!), as well as your own water, food, and
camping gear.
If more work needs to be done, I would like to have y'all reserve the
first weekend of November (Saturday, the 1st) and December (Saturday,
the 6th) for additional work weekends. I believe these weekends will not
interfere with all of the other worthwhile projects going on around the
state.
Naturally, I will have waivers for y'all that need to be signed, or I
can email them to you to help expedite the necessary paperwork.
Camping will currently be at the Picnic Area across from the Visitors
Center at Longhorn Caverns. Water will be available.
Directions and more info to Longhorn Caverns is below:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Longhorn+Cavern+State+Park,+Burn
et
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/findadest/parks/longhorn_cavern/
I appreciate all who have already volunteered to help out and the offer
is still out there to others, if you'd like to help out.
Please let me know if you'll be coming, so I can give the park a rough
head count.
Thanks again and look forward to working with you on this project!
Thanks,
Mark Alman
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Please contact me off-list.
Russ
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Below is a report of a cave diving fatality of a Texan who may have been an
NSS member - Richard Mork
The events leading up to the tragic accident that at Jackson Blue Springs,
Florida on 9/19/2008,
by diving partner.
Richard and I made 2 previous dive trips together to Northern Florida in the
past year; we had around 15 dives together as buddies in Florida caves. He
is the only rebreather diver I've been cave diving with.
On Thursday, September 18th, I left Georgetown, Texas for Marianna, Florida
around noon. At approximately 3:00 pm, I arrived in Houston at the apartment
of Richard's friend. Richard was staying with this friend because of
Hurricane Ike.
During the trip to Marianna, Richard and I discussed dive planning for the
dives we wanted to do on this trip. We proceed from Houston to Marianna,
Florida, arriving at Cave Adventurer's rental trailer at approximately 1:45
am on 9/19.
We woke at around 9:00 am on 9/19.
The original plan was to dive Hole in the Wall using one of Edd's rental
boats. However, when we got to Cave Adventurers, we found that all of his
boats were rented (our fault; with the Hurricane, we had both forgotten to
call and reserve a boat). We decided to push off our Hole in the Wall dive
until Sunday, and instead spend the day doing a couple dives in Jackson
Blue. We had both been in Jackson Blue together before.
>From Edd's, we headed to the Sheriff's office to sign in (approximately
10:00 am). We arrived at Jackson Blue at approximately 10:15 am.
After arrival, we started to put our gear together and discussed our dive
plan. It was agreed that I would dive lp104's (back mount) with a 6cf Argon
bottle, two al80 stages and an al40 O2 bottle (32%). Richard would use his
Meg rebreather with two al80 stages/bailout (32%) and one al40 stage (32%),
along with his normal rebreather tanks, and an al40 with bailout oxygen.
The dive plan was for us to scooter to about 3300 feet (me - long body
Gavin, Richard - an X-Scooter). Richard had recently done some work on his
X-Scooter, so he said he was not comfortable scootering past 3300. Richard
would drop one of his AL80 bottles at the back of the trash room to be used
for bailout/safety use on dives later on Friday and Saturday. After we
dropped the scooters, the plan was for us to swim to approximately 3900 and
then make the jump over to DeLoches delight, continuing until I I hit 1/3's
or we completed the circuit.
As I was preparing my gear for the dive, I observed Richard prepping his Meg
for the dive. I watched him analyze and label each of his tanks. Although I
did not observe him packing his scrubber canister, my belief is he was using
a radial canister. Richard had told me on the drive over that his oxygen
sensors were 18 months old, but still operating within acceptable
parameters.
We geared up and entered the water at approximately 12:45 pm. I initially
had an issue with bubbles on my left post that we discovered during our
s-drills. Richard was able to help me correct the issue (grit on the O-ring)
without me having to leave the water. I observed Richard pre-breathe his
rebreather loop, and to the best of my somewhat limited knowledge of
rebreathers, he performed all of his normal pre-dive checks (as I had seen
on previous dives with him).
At 1:04 pm CDT we began our dive, Richard leading and me following. Both
Richard and I deployed our Oxygen bottles in about 30 feet of water, just
inside the entrance. We made it about 100 feet into the cave when it became
obvious that Richard was not happy with the performance of his scooter. He
made several adjustments to it, but after approximately 3-4 minutes, he
asked me (through hand signals) if I wanted to park the scooters and swim. I
agreed, so we both turned the pitches down on our scooters and attached them
to the beginning of the gold line.
At 10 minutes into the dive, we descended down the chimney to a depth of ~90
feet. At ~900 feet penetration, I reached + 200 psi on my first stage, so I
shut it down and dropped it on the main line.
At the first T we proceeded to the right.
At ~1500 feet (I'm not as clear on this number), I reached + 200 psi on my
second stage, so I shut it down and dropped it on the main line.
We reached the third T at ~58 minutes. Richard made a left and headed down
the Rabbit Hole. I began to follow Richard down the rabbit hole, but he
stopped just inside the entrance. After Richard swam in place for about 5
seconds, then I noticed a relatively large (about equal to an OC exhale)
amount of bubbles from his head area. He continued to swim in place for
another 5 seconds, and I flashed him with my primary light. My intention was
to get him to turn around so I could suggest that we take the other
direction around the T. Almost immediately after I flashed Richard, he began
to turn around (my belief was that he was acknowledging my flashing). By the
time Richard got turned around (at most 5-10 seconds), I could tell
something wasn't right. His light was flashing around (like he was holding
it loosely) and his movement was jerky, not his normal very fluid movements.
Richard bolted past me towards the T and the entrance. I immediately turned
to follow and overtake Richard. After several seconds, and almost exactly 60
minutes into the dive, Richard stopped swimming. This was about 5 feet
downstream from the Third T and right on top of the gold line. I was on top
of Richard in less than 5 seconds.
When I reached him he was jerking, and his loop was floating above his head
(his loop had been in his mouth just seconds earlier when he swam past me).
I immediately deployed the OC reg from one of his 32% bail out bottles. I
put the reg in his mouth, and when he did not immediately attempt to breathe
off of it, I purged the reg for him.
For the next 15 minutes I held the regulator in Richard mouth purging it at
regular intervals in the hope that he was getting some gas and at some point
he would begin to breathe. At first it seemed like he might have been trying
to breathe, but that quickly subsided, and after that he was completely
unresponsive. After 15 minutes, I had to make the decision to leave Richard.
My own gas situation was becoming critical.
On the exit, I had to stop myself at one point (I was swimming at well over
200 fpm) because I was over breathing my regs and could not get enough air.
I was able to get my breathing back under control, and got to my deco stop
without any further incident.
When I reached my deco stops (~88minutes) I had 8 minutes of deco. I
performed ~2 minutes of deco on O2, and then did an ascent.
On the surface there was a group of divers on two pontoon boats gearing up
for a dive. I was able to get their attention and have them call 911.
I forced myself to wait on the surface for about two minutes (DCS concerns)
then I exited, went to my car, and called Edd Sorenson. I briefed Edd on the
situation, and as I was doing so I walked up to the front of the park and
opened the gated for the emergency personnel.
The police are working on their reports, and my understanding is that
Richard's gear will be sent to NEDU for evaluation.
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http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20080205-116844/Samal-cave-hosts-worlds-biggest-colony-of-fruit-bats
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Yay for mo' recognizion, Jim!
-WaV
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 4:46 PM, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20080205-116844/Samal-cave-hosts-worlds-biggest-colony-of-fruit-bats
>
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