Last time I was down there several years ago, Cave of the Creek had been covered by construction equipment moving up and down the creekbed moving dirt around. One way to easily verify it is to look for Cave of the Cliff, which is fairly easy to find in a nearby cliff (assuming construction hasn't changed that too!) and then use the bearing and distance on the map (which shows both caves) to locate Cave of the Creek. Keep in mind the bearing is relative to magnetic north and declination has drifted about 2 degrees since I surveyed them about 30 years ago. Precise GPS locations for both caves would be nice.
As a general reminder to all, remember to record the datum your GPS unit is set to and provide that information to TSS with the coordinates. TSS doesn't care what datum you use, but some of the more common ones differ by about 200 m, which could result in people being 200 m off when searching for a cave in the future. Also include your EPE (estimated precision error) reported by most GPS units. There are three reasons. First, even with a nice hand-held unit, on occasion I've seen the first coordinates shown with EPEs as high as 50-150 m due to bad satellite coverage, software issues, trees or cliffs blocking views of satellites, etc. (some units show the EPEs on a different page than the page with the coordinates). Hold the unit over the cave entrance or karst features for a minute or two and with most GPS units that are WASS enabled you can often get your precision to within 2-3 m. Second, if TSS already has coordinates for the cave or karst feature, it will save those which are the most precise. In the case of Cave of the Creek and Cave of the Creek, the coordinates are based on my eye-balled estimate of the caves' locations on a topo map and are probably accurate to within 40 m. Third, in urban areas like San Antonio where lots of construction is occurring, the difference of a couple of meters can determine which property a cave is likely on and thus if it will or won't be protected (and these decisions are sometimes made without cavers or field checking). This can be especially important if the cave is covered and hidden from view. George From: Tom Florer [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 4:59 PM To: George Veni; 'whoop !'; [email protected] Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Cave @ Mud Creek Park, S.A...? I also stumbled upon it a few months ago...near as I can tell it's the one listed as "Cave of the Creek" in the Caves of Bexar County book. There's another cave nearby which I tried to find, but due to thick brush and rattlesnakes I abandoned my search. -Tom George Veni <[email protected]> wrote: At least a couple of caves I know of have been covered in that area and it may be one of them reopening. Send me GPS coordinates or a map that shows the location as best as you can estimate it, and I'll see if it is something already in the TSS files for Bexar County. As a reminder, don't send the coordinates or location over the list. Thanks, George From: whoop ! [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Texascavers] Cave @ Mud Creek Park, S.A...? I was walking through Mud Creek Park in San Antonio this weekend (Redland Rd. & Jones Maltsberger) & happened on what appears to be a cave opening, or at least a deep pit. Approaching it, it appeared to be a covered cattle trough, but looking in, is actually a ground opening ~1-2' wide, & a vertical pit ~15-20' deep. I'm wondering if anyone knows if there's anything to be explored here, or if it's in fact just a vertical pit? Dave in S.A. _____ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! <http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_W L_Refresh_messenger_video_042008> _____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> it now.
