Hey RD,
If you want to effect change in the TSA, why don't you volunteer for
a position in the organization and/or volunteer to run for a TSA
office for next year?
Diana
On Jan 22, 2008, at 5:03 PM, RD Milhollin wrote:
Again Fritz,
I am not bashing anyone or any organization, just passing along my
own views
on the question of the cost/benefits of TSA membership.
So, again, the "enjoyment of camaraderie with others at TCR" and
"various
caving activities" is not tied to TSA membership. The Spring
Convention is.
"TSA as well as TCMA allows me to visit beautiful sites and caving
areas
that I would not otherwise know of or be able to access" : I agree
that the
TCMA and also the TCC enables access to caves, but I don't see how
the TSA
does, except through organizational contributions to land acquisition
activities, in which the TSA acts as a conduit only. At least there
are no
administrative fees or overhead costs associated.
"officers of the organizations deem is an appropriate amount for
dues" Why
would you avoid using your own judgement in estimating appropriate
dues for
an organization you belong to. I suppose we all are becoming a
nation of
followers, I just supposed cavers would be on the trailing edge of
this
trend.
"I feel that the more income the associations generate, the more
involved
they can become with education, acquisition and conservation of our
caves
and their inhabitants." Agreed, but there are two ways to make the
equation
of income generation work. The current scheme seems to be few
members with
high dues per member. One unintended (?) result of this policy is
to keep
the organization closely held, meaning old-timers tend to dominate,
which
makes it a conservative group, ie preservation of status quo/slow
to change.
The alternative approach is to have a large membership base with
small dues
per member. This approach could generate the same revenue, and
involve more
cavers, new cavers, young cavers, as icing on top.
"I justify membership costs by the degree of enjoyment derived,
including
some of these dumb posts..." I have been trying to point out that
there is
not a causal link between this enjoyment and TSA membership. This
list, for
instance is not owned by the TSA. It is made possible entirely
through the
good graces of the list owner, Charles Goldsmith.
Now, more unsubstantiated views on the subject from cavers I have
talked
with recently. One, a qualified candidate for the position of
newsletter
editor for the UT Grotto, replied, somewhat surprised at my
suggestion that
the UTG needed a newsletter, replied "Why? We have the Texas caver".
Another, very involved Texas caver stated in confidence that "the only
benefit you get from TSA membership is the TC". I know that the TSA
members
who have stated opposing viewpoints are genuinely proud of their
organization and the work they see it as accomplishing. But I see
it as
necessary to discount that dedication somewhat by the "buy-in" that
members
of organizations usually get by belonging to a group, meaning it is
slightly
more difficuly for them to view the organization objectively as
whole from
inside. I, and others before me, are suggesting change, but it is
going to
be hard to accomplish due to the nature of the organization
-----Original Message-----
From: Fritz Holt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:13 PM
To: RD Milhollin
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver
RD,
As an old timer and spelunker in years past, I can only speak for
myself as
to the perceived benefits of TSA membership. I echo the thoughts of
Charles
Goldsmith and Jerry Atkinson and I like your thoughts of wanting to
belong
to a group of like-minded people with a common interest. Many of us
march to
a different drummer which makes for some interesting commentary.
This is
good. From kids to geezers, our common interests are somewhat out
of the
norm but are a fun and satisfying pastime.
For me, whatever the cost of TSA membership may be, it is worth it
for the
enjoyment of camaraderie with others at TCR, the spring convention
and at
various caving activities. In addition, TSA as well as TCMA allows
me to
visit beautiful sites and caving areas that I would not otherwise
know of or
be able to access. I certainly realize that many cavers, especially
younger
ones, may be on a tight budget and therefore I will go along with
what the
officers of the organizations deem is an appropriate amount for dues.
I feel that the more income the associations generate, the more
involved
they can become with education, acquisition and conservation of our
caves
and their inhabitants. I justify membership costs by the degree of
enjoyment
derived, including some of these dumb posts. My wife accused me of
being a
Neanderthal and dumb as a post and this was before she knew that I
liked
caves.
Fritz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
----
From: RD Milhollin [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:56 PM
To: Fritz Holt
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver
Fritz, for the sake of good natured argument, please enumerate said
benefits
and the value you place on those.
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