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Name brand sodas are supposed to be served whenever alcohol is. Carol
From: Phyllis Boneau <pjb...@gmail.com>
To:
Cc: rckee...@cox.net; nssw...@yahoogroups.com; texascavers@texascavers.com;
swrcav...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [SWR CAVERS] RE: BOG Agenda Item 6-Tell your BOG to Vote NO
>From Wm's reply I conclude the concern is more about hard liquor. If that is
>the question, the motion should come right out and say no supplying hard
>liquor instead of pussyfooting around about WHEN exactly alcoholic beverages
>can be served instead of WHAT alcoholic beverages can be served. (I dislike
>beer and find a great lack of "coke" at convention gatherings.)
Did I miss a point here?
Phyllis Boneau
On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 9:16 PM, Lee H. Skinner <skin...@thuntek.net> wrote:
All,
I see no problem with people bringing their own beer to the convention, and
if it saves the NSS over $7500, I think that's all the better. Thanks,
William, for your reasonable explanation.
Lee Skinner
On 6/11/2017 8:48 PM, mcvittetoe via Southwestern Cavers of the National
Speleological Society wrote:
OOPS, I messed up on that last email. I ment to say. To all of you booze
hounds out there. I don't like paying more for conventions that use more of
something that I do not use!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel that if you want booze at the
convention you should pay for it!
Marion Vittetoe said that.
In a message dated 6/11/2017 4:26:49 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
rckee...@cox.net writes:
Wm, I am ashamed of you by trying to change the topic to “we’re so poor”.
This is a Convention budgeting issue, not an NSS dictating issue … and
especially after the BOG voted at the March meeting that NSS Conventions must
budget for a profit. The people at the Conventions are the movers and shakers
of the NSS. These are the very people who have made caves and the NSS their
lives. These are the people, who, after donating hundreds of hours each year,
and many, many dollars, want to enjoy talking with their friends. Everyone.
Let’s make this clearer. The NSS is not poor and this is our national
Convention. Go to the just published Secretary-Treasurer report at
https://caves.org/nss-business /reports/1706/S-T-1706.pdf Go to Attachment A
which has all of the National Speleological Foundation (NSF) funds. We have
an Account Balance with the NSF of $3,157,393.52 (as of 3/31/2017). That’s up
$63,000 dollars over 3/2016, and this is after $80,000 was taken out of the NSS
Endowment Fund. The first time I ever heard of law enforcement being called
for a fight at a Convention was 2011. To bring this up as a reason is truly
offensive. The main point is mandating to Convention staffs is yet another
reason why our NSS membership is going down. Caving and Conventions were fun
when we started caving. A BOG member needs to amend the motion to remove the
sentence “No other alcoholic beverages will be provided.“ A non-second to the
motion would be better. I am not on the Texas Cavers list. Could someone
please forward this response to them? Thanks, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net
623-523-1760 From: nssw...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.co
m]
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 12:53 PM
To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG Agenda Item 6-Tell your BOG to Vote NO
Ray, Ernie, & everyone (including Texas Cavers, since I see RD forwarded it
there), Ernie is correct – the beer budget alone would have been enough to
put several conventions in the black (instead of the red). That said, I’m not
opposed to beer (even though I don’t drink it myself). The questions are: -
When is it “enough”? Should we just 30-35 kegs (more than OTR purchases,
and that is designated a “party event”, yet what was being budgeted for in an
upcoming convention) and have it every night? I believe most would say “no, a
couple of nights is more than sufficient”. - When a fight breaks out,
and it has several times (to the point of the police being called), are we
responsible since we served it? Different laws in different
states/municipalities/campuses make this a nightmare to avoid. - The
main point I have below is not that the NSS wants to ban beer (we don’t), but
that we will limit it to the alcoholic beverages listed. There is a trend
coming that wants to serve “hard liquor”, and the entire EC of the NSS is
opposed to this. Just as we don’t object to the NSS buying beer & wine, we do
object when it comes down to liquor with much higher alcohol content. I’ll buy
my own, thank you. - The cost of beer alone in a proposed Convention
budget is $7,510. This does not include wine at the NSS Awards Banquet, which
is another $2,475, for a total of $9,985. This amount has easily broken
Convention’s budgets all by itself. Part of 2018’s “cost savings” is a proposed
$200 pre-reg ($250 at the door) registration, and if you want a guidebook
that’s extra. So yes, buy extra and truck around the leftovers the next day
and fill everyone’s pitchers – that’s a really great way to continue to bleed
your Society in a form we can’t control. If we don’t set a limit, each new
Convention points out the (often large) holes we have in how to host a
convention. I would hope that everyone will instead encourage the Directors
to be fiscally responsible for the Society, and to do the right thing by voting
“for”. Everything in moderation, even caving. Wm Shrewsbury President, for
another week National Speleological Society From: nssw...@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.co m]
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 2:45 PM
To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NSSwest] BOG Agenda Item 6-Tell your BOG to Vote NO
Ray, et al,
I don't believe Wm is trying to change your way of drinking, but to use
funding more wisely. When more funding is used for alcoholic purposes to get
folks drinking from the time they wake up to the time they fall into their
tent at night, is becoming an ongoing thing, yes, yes and we've all seen it
recently. Ha! When you look at the financial picture of putting on a
convention, the teeter-totter seems to be swayed by the beer expenses. As for
the New Member/Fellows gathering that is a simple thing to deal with and should
be a separate issue IMHO. On top of these thoughts, of late, its the campsites
that get all this extra economy--Ha!--and those of us who put off camping
lately, that's our problem, but lowering the cost of registration could be a
major part of this issue, you think?
Ernie Coffman, 8316LF
Hello NSS West, You need to know about this. On the Monday Morning BOG
agenda they will vote on the motion below. Please talk to your Directors and
Officers before the Monday morning vote and request that each BOG member votes
“NO!” on Agenda Item 6. Please forward this to other list serves. You can
contact your Directors and Officers even if you are not going to the 2017
Convention. Let your leaders hear from you directly!
e...@caves.org+directors@caves.o rg=b...@caves.org … and yes, there are
several BOG members on the NSS West list. If you reply to this list, several
will see your reply. Agenda Item 6 “Convention Beverages” is about
restricting when alcoholic beverages can be served during the Conventions.
You are the representatives of the membership. You are my representative.
Please vote “NO” on agenda item 6. This motion is another unnecessary burden to
future Convention committees. It is another unnecessary, and unwanted
requirement. The motion is below. The “Note:” below the motion will not be
included in the Acts of the Board. It is only there to sway your vote.
Minimally, I am asking you, my Directors, to amend the motion to remove the
sentence “No other alcoholic beverages will be provided.” Example: There was a
Convention (I was there) where not all of the beer was consumed at the previous
night’s gathering. The following day the remaining beer kegs were trailered
through the campground and pitchers were used to fill campers’ containers. It
was a memorable and unexpected perk that was very much appreciated. If this
motion passes, enjoyable, spontaneous events cannot happen. 6) Convention
Beverages Shrewsbury moves: The annual NSS Convention is permitted, once legal
permits and permission has been obtained for that area, to serve beer at the
Howdy Party and the Campground party. Additionally, wine may be served at the
Fellows/New Members reception, Auction night, and the NSS Awards Banquet. No
other alcoholic beverages will be provided. Adequate alternatives, such as soft
drinks, tea, and water will also be provided at these events. Note: While
the Board has discussed this on a prior occasion, other than voting down the
“no alcohol at all” motion on the floor at that time, the Board has not
codified what is acceptable. This motion is not designed to set a new
precedent, but to codify our understanding of the Board’s decision. Thank
you, Ray Keeler NSS 23245 Current Arizona Region President Former NSS EVP,
AVP, and Director .
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